Local, Global ban evasions

[WHIPENIE4]

well, i was in a discussion with big Stormio after local and global ban evasion, he says Local Ban Evasion DOES NOT exist according to unixmad. Whats that show? FACT or MYTH?

[zell12]

I think that if someone is banned, it is only their account. However, that is not how it should be. Players should be banned if they do anything wrong, just for certian time periods, no more jail. But most players don't have a static ip, so we would have to issue a number to all players for them to login to the client, which is registered to their account as well, so that can be banned.

[WHIPENIE4]

i think if they buy more then one account they should be able to play. thats cash for unixmad.

[zell12]

True, but causes trouble for playerworld administration. So it is contrversial.

[WHIPENIE4]

if they're that stupid to cause more problems then yea. say ello to my little fren the ban stik

[jake13jake]

Originally posted by WHIPENIE4
i think if they buy more then one account they should be able to play. thats cash for unixmad.

This has to be the single most ignorant excuse for banning being on an account by account basis that I have ever heard. The sad part of it is the number of people I've heard it from-- the most notable being Stryker, our friendly Graal Classic GP Administrator.

[Milkdude99]

Ok it seems you have missed the purpose of jail. Unless they are hacking you Jail. This creates a history of behavior and if they continue to abuse their right to play then you ban. If you don't ban the player on ALL accounts you have defeated the purpose of the banning in the first place. They have no reason at all to modify their behavior if they know they can just get on another account and do it all over again. Not to say the stress of Staff that has to deal with the abusive player over and over again.

No if it is serious enough to ban over because of a clear history of abuse and jailing doesn't work, then it is serious enough to ban all known accounts they have. Ban is not to be taken lightly or take the place of jailing. Jailing as lame as it may be sometimes with some people still serves the purpose of creating the history needed of abuse. For most jailing is enough and they profit by it but for others I agree, it's just a process to seal their eventual outcome.

[Thought]

On Era we treat ban evasion as more of a 'privilege', eg, some staff enforce it, some staff do not. It's up to the staff that banned the person.

[WHIPENIE4]

Originally posted by Milkdude99
Ok it seems you have missed the purpose of jail. Unless they are hacking you Jail. This creates a history of behavior and if they continue to abuse their right to play then you ban. If you don't ban the player on ALL accounts you have defeated the purpose of the banning in the first place. They have no reason at all to modify their behavior if they know they can just get on another account and do it all over again. Not to say the stress of Staff that has to deal with the abusive player over and over again.

No if it is serious enough to ban over because of a clear history of abuse and jailing doesn't work, then it is serious enough to ban all known accounts they have. Ban is not to be taken lightly or take the place of jailing. Jailing as lame as it may be sometimes with some people still serves the purpose of creating the history needed of abuse. For most jailing is enough and they profit by it but for others I agree, it's just a process to seal their eventual outcome.

Yes but money is money. We all don't have the money to waste. Maybe some rich nerd who cant talk **** anywhere else so they take it to graal. But I've been in this position. I have been a GP in times when Classic had players. I've been Assistant Police Chief on 2001 when the Chief was voted on. That pretty much got my graal started off. that was my first serious position. And now I am working almost a year as a GC on Classic. I enjoy my job. We are tormented more then anyone else, but if you cant take it, why try out? But thats the way i see it. Some just want power. well. I think thats enough.

[jake13jake]

Originally posted by WHIPENIE4


Yes but money is money. We all don't have the money to waste. Maybe some rich nerd who cant talk **** anywhere else so they take it to graal. But I've been in this position. I have been a GP in times when Classic had players. I've been Assistant Police Chief on 2001 when the Chief was voted on. That pretty much got my graal started off. that was my first serious position. And now I am working almost a year as a GC on Classic. I enjoy my job. We are tormented more then anyone else, but if you cant take it, why try out? But thats the way i see it. Some just want power. well. I think thats enough.

Let me refer to myself saying that you are the longest playing newb on Graal.

[UNPTWOPWINNER]

Since when is it simply "ban"?
There are different types of ban, account local ban, account global ban, IP ban, ban on sight.
Each carry a different penalty.

Local Account Ban, being the most common, is banning an account and that account only on one server. This goes for the less serious but still banable crimes.

Everyone knows what global ban is for. Same as Local except everywhere? Duh.

IP Ban is an attempt to try and get rid of a person. For the serious of serious stuff.

And Ban on Sight is self explainatory. This is for hackers and such. Ban them on sight.

Next time you bring up the word "ban", think about which ban you're talking about.

Edit:To end this crap about ban evasion. Local yes, Global no.
There's a level of seriousness to both, as stated in my post. 'Nuff said.
Let it be known! I care not about Unixmad's money making ideas, only that my players get a fair chance to change their ways after being banned once.


-Stryker, YES Stryker the GP Admin on Classic....just different account....joys.

[WHIPENIE4]

Originally posted by UNPTWOPWINNER
Since when is it simply "ban"?
There are different types of ban, account local ban, account global ban, IP ban, ban on sight.
Each carry a different penalty.

Local Account Ban, being the most common, is banning an account and that account only on one server. This goes for the less serious but still banable crimes.

Everyone knows what global ban is for. Same as Local except everywhere? Duh.

IP Ban is an attempt to try and get rid of a person. For the serious of serious stuff.

And Ban on Sight is self explainatory. This is for hackers and such. Ban them on sight.

Next time you bring up the word "ban", think about which ban you're talking about.



-Stryker, YES Stryker the GP Admin on Classic....just different account....joys.

He just owned you all

[zell12]

There is no rule that says you have to jail people... I prefer banning players who are dumb.

[HoudiniMan]

I believe Unixmad once stated on these forums that you ban only for the account(s) the infractions were commited on.

[Lance]

I ban a person, I do not ban an account. If someone has lost the priviledge of playing, they have lost the priviledge of playing.

It is up to the individual server to decide whether or not local ban evasion is a punishable offense or not (as far as I am aware - I have not been told to the contrary).

[zell12]

For now, do waht you think is best. The Graal Administration don't have time to make rules, they make them as they go, I suppose.

[ZanderX]

Originally posted by HoudiniMan
I believe Unixmad once stated on these forums that you ban only for the account(s) the infractions were commited on.

Read the User Agreement, chief.

www.graalonline.com had this to say about Robocop:

User Information. Former Users. Users whose accounts have been terminated by any Graal Online administrator or LINUX Cyberjoueurs himself may not access the Graal Online system in any manner or for any reason without the express written permission of Cyberjoueur. Active Users may not knowingly allow former Users who have been terminated to use the active Users' accounts.

[Loriel]

Wow.
You people just keep destroying my trust in common sense.
Lance got it right.

[Milkdude99]

Originally posted by Loriel
Wow.
You people just keep destroying my trust in common sense.
Lance got it right.

Ok Lance is half right.

Originally posted by Lance
I ban a person, I do not ban an account. If someone has lost the priviledge of playing, they have lost the priviledge of playing.

Lance is 100% right with this and is in line to what the user agreement states.

It is up to the individual server to decide whether or not local ban evasion is a punishable offense or not (as far as I am aware - I have not been told to the contrary).

But Lance is wrong here because it is plainly expressed in the same user agreement that a player banned is to be "locked out" of the Game till he/she contacts Graal. So it is not optional if they do or not but required to do so although on some servers they are not doing this.

Users whose accounts have been terminated by any Graal Online administrator or LINUX Cyberjoueurs himself may not access the Graal Online system in any manner or for any reason without the express written permission of Cyberjoueur.

[Lance]

Shrug. The reasons I expressed that final caveat were threefold:

1) It is, after all, the local server who would be banning the evading account. They can choose whether or not they do.

2) There are some cases where you are, in fact, banning the account and not the person.

3) Tyhm has explained to me his interpreation of ban evasion, which cites ban evasion as a helping-reason moreso than a main reason (for local bans, at least).

Again, everyone has their own interpretation of what ban-evasion is and how it can be applied. It's up to the server that banned the person to determine whether they banned the person or merely the account.

[Lyndzey]

There have been a couple people I have banned for ban evasion.

One of them was a guy who attempted to take over a server and was successful until the PWA found out. This wasn't an UC server, it was a server that usually has 50+ people on it.

[Milkdude99]

I agree issues like this need to be defined as to what the interpretation should be. All this and other rules like this need to be defined as to what Unixmad has in mind for this rule and how he wants it to be done. Everyone here has valid points but as stated it is left up to interpretation and something it should not be to have uniformed rules for all PWs.

[thrashsoul]

The ban button on rc needs to have a time box, it is stupid how staff ban people and dont even list the ban somewhere and just forget about it.

[protagonist]

I've never had ban rights, anywhere (with the exception of the servers that have given me local rights, but I don't really count those as I don't use them).

In my opinion, when you ban someone you are removing them from the community. If you remove them from the community, they shouldn't come back to the community unless they are serious about changing.

I might let them come back after, I don't know, 5-6 months if they asked. But I'd ban them if they did something serious again, and not let them come back.

[superb]

Originally posted by thrashsoul
The ban button on rc needs to have a time box, it is stupid how staff ban people and dont even list the ban somewhere and just forget about it.

That's a damned good suggestion.

[WHIPENIE4]

Originally posted by thrashsoul
The ban button on rc needs to have a time box, it is stupid how staff ban people and dont even list the ban somewhere and just forget about it.

Classic (when i was a GP there) had it where you must put a date and reason, something like this

X-Mann (1/29/04 7:06AM Central):
Trainer use, Permanent Ban.
- X-Mann

yea i did that and we are the STRICTEST server, I have worked on quite a few playerworlds, and when I was global, I noticed that the Manager might just overrule a GP after banning someone, If they did that i'd leave in a second because they aren't supposed to give friends special priveledges, its even getting funnier how an admin or the manager hires friends as staff with no skill, I've seen Admins best friends get Assistant Admin on a server in a matter of days, I wont say a servers name, but I'll just say RECENTLY IT WAS REPUT UP, it was pretty funny. We'll that'll be all folks' i've gotten off topic as it is

[Darlene159]

Originally posted by WHIPENIE4


Classic (when i was a GP there) had it where you must put a date and reason, something like this

X-Mann (1/29/04 7:06AM Central):
Trainer use, Permanent Ban.
- X-Mann

Npulse does the same thing, every warning, jailing, and banning is put into a txt file, including the date put in, the date the account is to be released, the reason, and the staff member who did it, as well as the proof of the infraction.

[Moonite]

I prefer banning players who are dumb

so u wanna ban all newbies?

[Loriel]

Why are you insulting newbies?

[Lyndzey]

Originally posted by Darlene159
Npulse does the same thing, every warning, jailing, and banning is put into a txt file, including the date put in, the date the account is to be released, the reason, and the staff member who did it, as well as the proof of the infraction.

I wish all servers did that. Recently I stumbled upon an account that was banned in September for "being Annoying"; this account was still banned when I unbanned it on the weekend.

Not all dumb people are newbies; not all newbies are dumb people.

[Neoreno]

I can't speak for other GPs, but I keep all my bannings and jailings in a chalkup file, reason and release date, if any. *nod*

[R0bin]

I wouldnt hire an admin, i would hire development staff, and promote as nessarcery.

[Moonite]

Why are you insulting newbies?

because I was a dumb 2...
and my IP got banned

[jake13jake]

Did you know if the conditions are just right you can walk through a one tile wall? I almost got banned for doing that when I was a newbie. I thought that bugs would be fixed ASAP (maybe a few months)... but WAS I WRONG!!!! The LAT, etc., don't even bother to fix bugs. When I went to report bugs all I recieved was an "we know, and you're insignificant, so ****."

[Milkdude99]

Originally posted by sYnergy247


Cool, but most UC servers don't have GPs...I think Admins should also be tested on Banning/Jailing Knowlage before they are hired.

All Staff that Ban or jail for the matter need to be "trained" on the rules and their use. And yes tested to their knowedge of them and also how to use them. It is something I am working on for future use , " A PW Guide to jailing and Banning". Again something I am striving for is more standard rules for all PWs. This does not include custom rules needed for some servers because of the nature of their PW (ie rules on RP names and such) this only pertains to the "Basic Graal rules and the PW Rules." Servers are encouraged to make their own Staff rules and server rules as long as they do not conflict with Graal rules. But rules regarding players and the interaction with them all need to be standard to Graal rules and Graal rules supercede any server rules if they do conflict.

I am also a firm believer if a PW has rules , Staff or Player they MUST be posted for public view and review. This can be done either on a server website or on a server message. I have a dim view of server rules nobody knows about or even seen and why I will push that they always be accessible to all players and Staff.

[WHIPENIE4]

If we banned newbies we'd have no players, everyones been a newbie at one point in time, some of us before you. now days everyone says they played in 1998 when they started in like 2001. its funny. I stopped believe people i didnt see. its like "OMGOSH I FORGOT MY NAME AND IM ON A NEW ACCOUNT" then i ask them how you use to save they say ACCOUNT SAVED IT AUTOMATICALLY, its funny as hell. They lie about it wow. but hey who cares if probably actually about 10% of the local Posters here probably less actually played in 98. the 3 off the bat i can think of are Lyndzey, Hoss and Pickles, Galens another. but yea.