Admin Elections! :D

WaDaFack · #1 04-10-2010, 11:43 PM

Each server should have a manager election every year, a player can only be re-elected twice.

Thoughts?

Rufus · #2 04-10-2010, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WaDaFack

Thoughts?

Popularity contest.

Crono · #3 04-10-2010, 11:47 PM

terrible idea

fowlplay4 · #4 04-10-2010, 11:47 PM

Pretty much one of the most stupid and reckless things that could ever be done to a Classic server.

kia345 · #5 04-10-2010, 11:48 PM

Yearly impeachment elections would be more useful

WaDaFack · #6 04-10-2010, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rufus

Popularity contest.

In a way it is but than again the votes may be legit.
The only way to participate in the elections is if you are already a Developer/PR on the server; and, how to get people to LIKE you? Obvious, if you work on the server a lot, and keep working towards the server, you'll gain a positive reputation.
Well yeah, you'll for sure get votes from your friends but that how every election is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by fowlplay4

Pretty much one of the most stupid and reckless things that could ever be done to a Classic server.

You will obviously disagree because you're trying to hog Zodiac for as long as you can. You're not even doing anything other than nerfing/buffing classes. Other than that, you're AFK while your whole staff team is actually working.

Skyld · #7 04-10-2010, 11:54 PM

It would be totally counter-productive. Every manager tries to make a server their own, so servers would get broken and messed about with yearly. Plus I agree with the "popularity contest" sentiment. It just seems stupid.

cbk1994 · #8 04-10-2010, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fowlplay4

Pretty much one of the most stupid and reckless things that could ever be done to a Classic server.

Agreed.

WaDaFack · #9 04-10-2010, 11:56 PM

Than how do countries work? Doesn't every president/priminister want to run the country there own way into a different direction?

kia345 · #10 04-10-2010, 11:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WaDaFack

Than how do countries work? Doesn't every president/priminister want to run the country there own way into a different direction?

Countries are not small communities of 30, presidents aren't nationally known on a personal level

LoneAngelIbesu · #11 04-11-2010, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fowlplay4

Pretty much one of the most stupid and reckless things that could ever be done to a Classic server.

I dunno. Valikorlia elected its current manager.

WaDaFack · #12 04-11-2010, 12:07 AM

Uhm, wouldn't it be easier to work on a community of 30 than one with millions of people?
Usually, someone running for president would usually have there whole hometown to vote for him/her.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu

I dunno. Valikorlia elected its current manager.

Did it turn out alright?

Darlene159 · #13 04-11-2010, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skyld

It would be totally counter-productive. Every manager tries to make a server their own, so servers would get broken and messed about with yearly. Plus I agree with the "popularity contest" sentiment. It just seems stupid.

Agree

CharlieM · #14 04-11-2010, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WaDaFack

Uhm, wouldn't it be easier to work on a community of 30 than one with millions of people?
Usually, someone running for president would usually have there whole hometown to vote for him/her.

Did it turn out alright?

do you know how politics work? You dont vote for someone on how well you like them personally, you vote for them on there ideas. That is how the President is elected, I doubt there hometown ever ALL votes for them, I mean, Obama's hometown cant vote..

This is a terrible idea, We've seen Managers picked because of popularity and it fails..

LoneAngelIbesu · #15 04-11-2010, 01:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WaDaFack

Did it turn out alright?

Well, under Omake we've had more development than I've ever seen in all the time I've played Valikorlia. He's definitely better than Clash and the slew of managers that filled up the few-month space between. The election was between two pretty well-liked, competent, long-time players.

fowlplay4 · #16 04-11-2010, 01:44 AM

Having an election is just a waste of time, and going to extent to include player opinions into the election just drags it further, and the fact that you suggest that it should be a yearly repeatable event just adds for more wasted time.

If a server really needs a new server manager the PWA will/should take the appropriate action required.

salesman · #17 04-11-2010, 01:52 AM

You should have an election, and then give the person who got the least number of votes manager...they'd probably do the best job.

LoneAngelIbesu · #18 04-11-2010, 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fowlplay4

If a server really needs a new server manager the PWA will/should take the appropriate action required.

The PWA's decisions aren't always the greatest. The people they picked to replace Clash didn't do well at all.

Grey · #19 04-11-2010, 03:12 AM

Elections for manager, no. Elections for PR related positions? Possibly.

Crono · #20 04-11-2010, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WaDaFack

Than how do countries work? Doesn't every president/priminister want to run the country there own way into a different direction?

too bad game management isnt a democracy huh? lets have an election for CEO positions as well, thats how countries are run right?!

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu

The PWA's decisions aren't always the greatest. The people they picked to replace Clash didn't do well at all.

Clash didn't really do anything but kill the server on purpose and then make demands for his new Valikorlia. Also most of Valikorlia are staff anyway so "voting" for your manager works. Doesn't work so well on servers with an actual playercount though.

DarkCloud_PK · #21 04-11-2010, 08:13 AM

funny thing is, as terrible as the idea is, if it were implemented for Classic after the loss of Tyhm, Classic would have probably been better off.

Door · #22 04-11-2010, 01:28 PM

But seriously now gentlemen, I could see indirect elections being implemented--allowing players to place in non-public votes, then relying on the globals to act as the Electoral College. Voting should never be used to directly place someone into power, but to give globals an idea of how players feel? I don't see why not! (Well, I don't see why not when I factor out all the possibilities of this sort of thing going very badly. I just think it could be fun if given the right amount of credence.)

Crono · #23 04-11-2010, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkCloud_PK

funny thing is, as terrible as the idea is, if it were implemented for Classic after the loss of Tyhm, Classic would have probably been better off.

Well thats the thing. It will work on small servers but it does not scale well onto medium-large sized ones. Smaller servers have a really easy time weeding out idiots (i.e val's xenophobia) but on servers like UN the clueless are the majority.

Bell · #24 04-11-2010, 04:40 PM

Popularity contest aside, if there were an electoral process, qualified applicants would spend a year campaigning for themselves instead of working on the server.

Bad idea.

Old_Days · #25 04-11-2010, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grey

Elections for manager, no. Elections for PR related positions? Possibly.

Yes I like this, players should have some say in who is going to be patrolling them.

CharlieM · #26 04-11-2010, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old_Days

Yes I like this, players should have some say in who is going to be patrolling them.

He means "Player Relations" as in the real term, not Era and Zodiacs term..

Old_Days · #27 04-11-2010, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CharlieM

He means "Player Relations" as in the real term, not Era and Zodiacs term..

What the definition of the "real term" im confused...

CharlieM · #28 04-11-2010, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old_Days

What the definition of the "real term" im confused...

Player Relations, isn't supposed to enforce anything, There job is to improve relations between staff and players, so its people like events team, faq.

DustyPorViva · #29 04-11-2010, 06:04 PM

WaDaFack is his ****ing account name, genius.

LoneAngelIbesu · #30 04-11-2010, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crono

Clash didn't really do anything but kill the server on purpose and then make demands for his new Valikorlia. Also most of Valikorlia are staff anyway so "voting" for your manager works. Doesn't work so well on servers with an actual playercount though.

You're basing all of this off of the current situation of Valikorlia. Back when we voted for Omake to be manager, we had a playercount 2 or 3 times greater than the one we have now on our best days, even eclipsing UN every now and then. We also had a smaller staff team than we have now. So, no, most of the players were not staff members.

Also, Omake did not come directly after Clash. The PWA (Bell, I think) removed Clash from his position. First to replace him, I think, was some kind of combination of Clash-era admins -- Zangus, maybe Setzer and some others. Then it was Amo, who let Aren (a NAT) take control of everything. Then somehow Army became manager, and he did a whole lot of nothing. Once Army quit, his co-manager decided to hold a vote for new management. The server was actually quite split between the two groups, who came to the campaign with new directions for the server and the experience and ability to pull everything off. We voted in Omake and things have been doing great, development-wise.

Also, just to reiterate, our playercount was considerably larger during that time, right up there with the current average playercounts of Zodiac and Era. So it can be done for 'medium-large' scale servers. The players simply have to know what they want and the people running for manager have to be able to deliver.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bell

Popularity contest aside, if there were an electoral process, qualified applicants would spend a year campaigning for themselves instead of working on the server.

Bad idea.

Are you really equating campaigns for manager of a GraalOnline server to a real-life campaign for political office? What do you think a GraalOnline campaign would consist of? Town hall meetings, party conventions, appearing on television news? I don't think it's even possible to spend all of your time campaigning to be a server manager, unless you only play Graal for like 15 minutes a day.

Crono · #31 04-11-2010, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu

You're basing all of this off of the current situation of Valikorlia. Back when we voted for Omake to be manager, we had a playercount 2 or 3 times greater than the one we have now on our best days, even eclipsing UN every now and then. We also had a smaller staff team than we have now. So, no, most of the players were not staff members.

I'm pretty sure Val had a pop of ~40 then. And even during this time it was a very close playerbase.

Quote:

Also, just to reiterate, our playercount was considerably larger during that time, right up there with the current average playercounts of Zodiac and Era. So it can be done for 'medium-large' scale servers. The players simply have to know what they want and the people running for manager have to be able to deliver.

For some reason I doubt this, because I do not remember Val holding such a high playercount during this time period. I do remember the boost of players once the worldmap was re-done but I'm pretty sure Omake was manager then. Anyways, Valikorlia's playerbase was always very closed and I'm 100% sure the vast majority of those who took part in the election weren't clueless dolts. I'm quite confident a pretty big number of them have had staff experience and played the server for a while. Compare this to UN/Era/Zodiac's players and you'll see why an election system just wont work.

Staff positions aren't a democratic thing anyway. It's why you don't vote for your police chiefs, firemen, mcdonalds owners, etc.

fowlplay4 · #32 04-11-2010, 09:30 PM

crono for mcdonalds owner.

Crono · #33 04-11-2010, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fowlplay4

crono for mcdonalds owner.

free happy meal if u vote for me

LoneAngelIbesu · #34 04-11-2010, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crono

I'm pretty sure Val had a pop of ~40 then. And even during this time it was a very close playerbase.

Yes. The playercount was anywhere from 40-60 (about the same as UN and Era today -- not Zodiac, that was a mistake), as compared its pitiful 20-30 now (on its best days). That would make Valikorlia, at the time of elections, a 'medium'-sized server.

I don't know what you mean by 'close', though. If by close you mean we argued over masses, then yeah, we were all 'close'.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crono

For some reason I doubt this, because I do not remember Val holding such a high playercount during this time period.

I do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crono

Anyways, Valikorlia's playerbase was always very closed and I'm 100% sure the vast majority of those who took part in the election weren't clueless dolts. I'm quite confident a pretty big number of them have had staff experience and played the server for a while. Compare this to UN/Era/Zodiac's players and you'll see why an election system just wont work.

It doesn't matter how close or how smart the players are. What matters is if the people running for manager are capable, reliable, responsible, etc. You should have a situation where the server would be just fine no matter who would be elected, where the election is just a matter of what direction the players want the server to go.

Crono · #35 04-11-2010, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu

It doesn't matter how close or how smart the players are. What matters is if the people running for manager are capable, reliable, responsible, etc. You should have a situation where the server would be just fine no matter who would be elected, where the election is just a matter of what direction the players want the server to go.

And I'm saying that on servers like UN/Zodiac/Era the majority of the players wouldn't know a "capable, reliable, responsible, etc" manager. It turns into a popularity contest instead. Valikorlians know better, if a complete **** person was running for manager he wouldn't get through.

LoneAngelIbesu · #36 04-11-2010, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crono

And I'm saying that on servers like UN/Zodiac/Era the majority of the players wouldn't know a "capable, reliable, responsible, etc" manager. It turns into a popularity contest instead. Valikorlians know better, if a complete **** person was running for manager he wouldn't get through.

I've been arguing under the assumption that PWAs wouldn't let complete nutjobs run for manager.

Old_Days · #37 04-11-2010, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crono

free happy meal if u vote for me

I better get a nice toy like the one behind Ronald...

Crono · #38 04-12-2010, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu

I've been arguing under the assumption that PWAs wouldn't let complete nutjobs run for manager.

who r teh pwa to decide who is good and bad?!?! LET THE PLAYERS DECIDE!!

Imperialistic · #39 04-12-2010, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crono

who r teh pwa to decide who is good and bad?!?! LET THE PLAYERS DECIDE!!

half agreed.

I demand a GraalOnline Global Council! Elections will be based on their knowledge and maturity! All votes for Managers and anything else, will be discussed within this council and decided on!

LoneAngelIbesu · #40 04-12-2010, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crono

who r teh pwa to decide who is good and bad?!?! LET THE PLAYERS DECIDE!!