User agreement...breached?

Monkeyboy_McGee · #1 12-22-2003, 08:17 PM

Just a little enquiry into a certain situation with PKers on this server.

Section four (Rules of the Graal Online System) of the user agreement contains the following line: You may not engage in conduct or communication while using the Graal Online System which is unlawful or which restricts or inhibits any other user from using or enjoying the Graal Online System.
Now, I tend to think that the repetetive Playerkilling that is carried out by certain players on Graal Kingdoms is most indubitably conduct which restricts and inhibits other users from enjoying and in quite a few cases using the graal online system.

I'd just like to know...why are they allowed to continue in breaching the User agreement, one that they themselves must have agreed to?

I await the defensive outcries of those players who like to think section four of the user agreement does not apply to them.

marcoR · #2 12-22-2003, 08:20 PM

Graal Kingdoms was set up so such a thing as "Power players" could excist, before you scold the child, look to the parents.

Darlene159 · #3 12-22-2003, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Monkeyboy_McGee
Just a little enquiry into a certain situation with PKers on this server.

Section four (Rules of the Graal Online System) of the user agreement contains the following line: You may not engage in conduct or communication while using the Graal Online System which is unlawful or which restricts or inhibits any other user from using or enjoying the Graal Online System.
Now, I tend to think that the repetetive Playerkilling that is carried out by certain players on Graal Kingdoms is most indubitably conduct which restricts and inhibits other users from enjoying and in quite a few cases using the graal online system.

I'd just like to know...why are they allowed to continue in breaching the User agreement, one that they themselves must have agreed to?

I await the defensive outcries of those players who like to think section four of the user agreement does not apply to them.

Actually, I believe if you tell someone to stop pking you, as you dont wish to pk, they have to stop, or they are harrassing you and disrupting your game play...this doesnt mean you can stand in the middle of a pk zone, unpaused, then scream "stop pking me!" It means that if you are trying to play the game without pking, you should be able to do that, and if you arent allowed, the staff should do something about it. This rule is rarely enforced by pw's though.

but, you are right, it is a rule that everyone agreed to when they signed up for Graal.

Monkeyboy_McGee · #4 12-22-2003, 08:40 PM

Thought so. We should get tseng to lay the cheese down, and if he doesn't then threaten him with a slingshot full of jam until he does.

UNPTWOPWINNER · #5 12-22-2003, 08:44 PM

Rules of the Graal Online System. To ensure an enjoyable experience for as many people as possible, you agree to comply with generally accepted standards of proper online behavior. Any GraalOnline administrator and LINUX Cyberjoueurs reserves the right to determine, in its sole discretion, what constitutes generally accepted standards of online behavior and may, without notice and at any time, suspend or terminate your access to the Graal Online System. LINUX Cyberjoueurs does not warrant or guarantee that the Graal Services and Information and the functions or services performed by the administration team will be uninterrupted or error-free. You may not engage in conduct or communication while using the Graal Online System which is unlawful or which restricts or inhibits any other user from using or enjoying the Graal Online System. You agree to use the Graal Online System only for lawful purposes. Set forth below are some common examples of impermissible conduct. This list is not exhaustive. Graal Online administrators and LINUX Cyberjoueurs reserves the right, but does not assume the responsibility, to restrict conduct which any Graal Online administrator administrator or LINUX Cyberjoueurs himself deems in its discretion to be harmful to individual users, damaging to the communities which use the Graal Online System, or in violation of any third party's rights. You acknowledge, however, that communication over the Graal Online System and the Internet often occurs in real-time and LINUX Cyberjoueurs cannot, and does not intend to, screen communication in advance.

You took a sentence from the entire section and expect it to hold?

"Any GraalOnline administrator and LINUX Cyberjoueurs reserves the right to determine, in its sole discretion, what constitutes generally accepted standards of online behavior"

PKing is accepted, 'nuff said. :o

Darlene159 · #6 12-22-2003, 10:02 PM

Quote:

PKing is accepted, 'nuff said.

Wrong, it is accepted if both parties are willing, or noone complains....people who dont wish to pk, and wish to quest or other things, have the right to do that without being pk'ed to death. there are plenty of pkers without picking on people who dont wish to pk...all it is , is an easy kill (lame)

Ziro_Vitrudestec · #7 12-22-2003, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Darlene159
Actually, I believe if you tell someone to stop pking you, as you dont wish to pk, they have to stop, or they are harrassing you and disrupting your game play...this doesnt mean you can stand in the middle of a pk zone, unpaused, then scream "stop pking me!" It means that if you are trying to play the game without pking, you should be able to do that, and if you arent allowed, the staff should do something about it. This rule is rarely enforced by pw's though.

but, you are right, it is a rule that everyone agreed to when they signed up for Graal.

Yes, I do remember in the old days before complex scripting system, when there was just classic-PKing, if a PKer followed you all around the world just to PK you, it was indeed against the rules. Of course, it wasn't a major offense (you can just jail the player for an hour or so...that PKer victim will eventually log off, but the PKer likely plays all day) but it was enforced. I wouldn't be surprised if you would still enforce this rule today. It would kind of surprise me if people actually came to you and your staff with reports of it though.

graaliholic · #8 12-22-2003, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Darlene159
Wrong, it is accepted if both parties are willing, or noone complains....people who dont wish to pk, and wish to quest or other things, have the right to do that without being pk'ed to death. there are plenty of pkers without picking on people who dont wish to pk...all it is , is an easy kill (lame)

Going on battle mode is showing that you're willing to die. If you don't want to be PKed, you stay on peaceful mode. Simple as that.

Darlene159 · #9 12-22-2003, 10:12 PM

Quote:

I wouldn't be surprised if you would still enforce this rule today. It would kind of surprise me if people actually came to you and your staff with reports of it though.

I did fully enforce this rule when I managed Npulse, and still would today...and quite a few people liked playing Npulse because I enforced this rule and other rules when other servers would not, so yes, people did often report it to me.

Not all people play Graal to only pk.

DenoriZakarum · #10 12-22-2003, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Darlene159
Wrong, it is accepted if both parties are willing, or noone complains....people who dont wish to pk, and wish to quest or other things, have the right to do that without being pk'ed to death. there are plenty of pkers without picking on people who dont wish to pk...all it is , is an easy kill (lame)

Both parties accept when they are both on battle-mode

Darlene159 · #11 12-22-2003, 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DenoriZakarum
Both parties accept when they are both on battle-mode

I dont know anything about kingdom's battle mode or whatever....just stating what the graal rules say

Nappa · #12 12-22-2003, 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Darlene159
I dont know anything about kingdom's battle mode or whatever....just stating what the graal rules say

Why argue about something when you have no clue what your talking about then ?

UNPTWOPWINNER · #13 12-22-2003, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by graaliholic

Going on battle mode is showing that you're willing to die. If you don't want to be PKed, you stay on peaceful mode. Simple as that.

Yep yep :o

DenoriZakarum · #14 12-23-2003, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Darlene159
I dont know anything about kingdom's battle mode or whatever....just stating what the graal rules say

K, heres how it goes: When ever you start Kingdoms you are automatically unhurtable by other players, later on you can choose whether you whant to fight or not. You dont have to be pked/pk if you dont whant. (Its like when ur in Peaceful, you have 100 ap)

Darlene159 · #15 12-23-2003, 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DenoriZakarum
K, heres how it goes: When ever you start Kingdoms you are automatically unhurtable by other players, later on you can choose whether you whant to fight or not. You dont have to be pked/pk if you dont whant. (Its like when ur in Peaceful, you have 100 ap)

That doesn't mean that at person at some point, will not want to pk....doesn't mean they dont like to pk, but not everyone wants to pk continuously

w3dg1tz8 · #16 12-23-2003, 02:20 AM

Yeah, well after the limited fun factor runs out, there's nothing much else to do except PK and harass people.

Lance · #17 12-23-2003, 02:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Darlene159
Wrong, it is accepted if both parties are willing, or noone complains....people who dont wish to pk, and wish to quest or other things, have the right to do that without being pk'ed to death. there are plenty of pkers without picking on people who dont wish to pk...all it is , is an easy kill (lame)

Such rules vary by server.

To the creator of this thread: I will warn/warp/disconnect people who constantly PK / spar-kill someone over, and over, and over, such that it's one kill right after the other and it floods everyone's screen. I have labelled such behavior as spam-killing, and it is not allowed, as it does inhibit the player's game. Normal pking, though, is not such an inhibitor.

zell12 · #18 12-23-2003, 02:23 AM

Are you god? Do you own the server? Didn't think so. Harassnment, wether you like it or not, is not allowed. Players should be punished for it.

Lance · #19 12-23-2003, 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by zell12
Are you god? Do you own the server? Didn't think so. Harassnment, wether you like it or not, is not allowed. Players should be punished for it.

Um. Did you miss the part where I'm an administrator there, and can deem such a behavior as I enumerated as a violation?

zell12 · #20 12-23-2003, 02:30 AM

Graal Online Administrators. You have to make your rules based on the Code of Conduct.

Lance · #21 12-23-2003, 02:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by zell12
Graal Online Administrators. You have to make your rules based on the Code of Conduct.

Oh, I guess I'm an $other_mmorpg Administrator. And here, all this time, I thought I was a Graalonline one.

!

And, doofus, how is the listed rule not based upon the code of conduct? Man, you really need to do some serious reading, and thinking.

zell12 · #22 12-23-2003, 02:37 AM

You said you only punish a player if he/she kills another player one kill after another. Such as at respawn points. However, you are supposed to punish players if they follow someone and pk someone that doesn't want to be pked.

Lance · #23 12-23-2003, 02:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by zell12
However, you are supposed to punish players if they follow someone and pk someone that doesn't want to be pked.

Find where this is explicitly stated (and not something which is under the "As a Graalonline Administrator, I get to decide what constitutes a violation" category), please.

zell12 · #24 12-23-2003, 02:42 AM

wetibsdg;klnsdgklsng-pwt-3u4909usdf[h9jbjshshshg

Did you read the thread?

Darlene159 · #25 12-23-2003, 03:09 AM

If you pk someone continually who voices that they do not wish to be pk'ed, regardless of whether it is respawn killing or not, it is a violation of Graal's rules, as it says in the first post here....it interferes with that person's gameplay.

zell12 · #26 12-23-2003, 03:15 AM

Tseng says otherwise. And since he is a super-powerful-god-administrator, his way goes? Naw.

Milkdude99 · #27 12-23-2003, 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lance

Find where this is explicitly stated (and not something which is under the "As a Graalonline Administrator, I get to decide what constitutes a violation" category), please.

That is till the PWA receives complaints on this and we step in. As Playerworld Administrators of all the Classic Playerworlds if a player is inhibited to the point he/she cannot enjoy the Graal system to his/her enjoyment and satisfaction as a "paying customer" then we will have the final say so in something of this nature. Granted a player cannot deliberately put himself in a zone where this is deemed a battlefield of some sort and they must take reasonable steps to remove himself/herself from these areas. Now if the player is constantly followed "out of these areas" and pursued for the sole purpose of killing them and disrupting of their peaceful Gameplay then yes this is a violation of the rules of conduct and has to be dealt with accordingly.

Lance · #28 12-23-2003, 04:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by zell12
You said you only punish a player if he/she kills another player one kill after another. Such as at respawn points. However, you are supposed to punish players if they follow someone and pk someone that doesn't want to be pked.

You missed the point.

Quote:

Originally posted by Darlene159
If you pk someone continually who voices that they do not wish to be pk'ed, regardless of whether it is respawn killing or not, it is a violation of Graal's rules, as it says in the first post here....it interferes with that person's gameplay.

So did you.

Quote:

Originally posted by Milkdude99
That is till the PWA receives complaints on this and we step in. As Playerworld Administrators of all the Classic Playerworlds if a player is inhibited to the point he/she cannot enjoy the Graal system to his/her enjoyment and satisfaction as a "paying customer" then we will have the final say so in something of this nature. Granted a player cannot deliberately put himself in a zone where this is deemed a battlefield of some sort and they must take reasonable steps to remove himself/herself from these areas. Now if the player is constantly followed "out of these areas" and pursued for the sole purpose of killing them and disrupting of their peaceful Gameplay then yes this is a violation of the rules of conduct and has to be dealt with accordingly.

As did you as well. I really don't think I could have been more clear, though I will attempt it:

Any given administrator has the right to determine where the line is drawn as to how much pking constitues harrassment. I indicated where my line was drawn. I asked Excalibur where it was explicitly stated that I had to "punish players if they follow someone and pk someone that doesn't want to be pked" - he cannot find such an explicit statement, as one such does not exist in the code of conduct.

Honestly, people, reading is the key to understanding. Think about it.

Ziro_Vitrudestec · #29 12-23-2003, 04:24 AM

You can turn battlemode on or off as many times as you want on Graal Kingdoms granted you're in a kingdom. You have to join a kingdom in the first place to get on battle mode, and you have to still be in a kingdom to get off battle mode. So, all an admin should have to do is step in and see to it that a player is given access to turn off battlemode.

THEN AGAIN, THIS ALL WOULDN'T BE A PROBLEM IF PEOPLE, ESPECIALLY ALL KINGDOM LEADERS, AND ADMINISTRATORS, WOULD GO BY, FOLLOW, AND ENFORCE A TRADITIONAL SYSTEM OF ROLEPLAYING REGULATIONS!!!
SDFG;OSAJG[PSAUG=-S9APKIDSLKFS'FKSAG
'SLKAG-=SAOIGS[PGISAGP'SAG

ARGH!!!

GTXOO · #30 12-23-2003, 04:33 AM

stefan said he was gonna fix player killing...
he said he was gonna make PvP more balanced..
Like a lvl 30 can kill 4 level 5's
he said he would fix that, he never did...

zell12 · #31 12-23-2003, 04:34 AM

Tseng you are a real idiot. Please read the FIRST POST.

w3dg1tz8 · #32 12-23-2003, 04:37 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by zell12
wetibsdg;klnsdgklsng-pwt-3u4909usdf[h9jbjshshshg

Did you read the thread?

Me?

zell12 · #33 12-23-2003, 04:39 AM

Nope, Tseng.

Lance · #34 12-23-2003, 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by zell12
Tseng you are a real idiot. Please read the FIRST POST.

Sigh. You are still missing the point.

I did read the first post, as have I read the code of conduct. Nowhere in there does it explicitly state that people need to be punished if "they follow someone and pk someone that doesn't want to be pked," or even something to that effect.

P.S. Please refrain from the pathetic insults.

w3dg1tz8 · #35 12-23-2003, 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by zell12
Nope, Tseng.

Yay, not me. lol.

zell12 · #36 12-23-2003, 04:42 AM

sgoiwg9j3w40y9uje3rgjerhdfhh

Harassment. Stalking. Doing something to another player that they don't want done to them. The players HAVE THE RIGHT to enjoy the game. Administrators MUST inforce this.

Lance · #37 12-23-2003, 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by zell12
sgoiwg9j3w40y9uje3rgjerhdfhh

Harassment. Stalking. Doing something to another player that they don't want done to them. The players HAVE THE RIGHT to enjoy the game. Administrators MUST inforce this.

Enforce, by the way. Inforce is not a word.

Harassment, sure - harassment is explicitly listed in there. I see no mention of pking, though, which is what I said in the first place. It isn't explicitly stated, thus it falls into the category which the administrator determines as an acceptable standard or not.

zell12 · #38 12-23-2003, 04:49 AM

If I ran around pking you and you didnt like it the admin has to punish me. Holy jesus, you are some kinda dumb Tseng.

Lance · #39 12-23-2003, 04:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by zell12
If I ran around pking you and you didnt like it the admin has to punish me.

I'll make this still more clear, and by clear I mean I will dumb this down.:

It does not say that explicitly anywhere. THANK YOU.

Quote:

Holy jesus, you are some kinda dumb Tseng.

This is humorous, coming from you.

zell12 · #40 12-23-2003, 04:56 AM

It says it about 10 times in my posts. So you used he wrong word -- anywhere. Smartness.

However it does say in the code of conduct that the player has the right to enjoy the game, and if they are not, (ie. being pked a bagillion times) the admin shall punish the disruptor.