Tidbits!

[Milkdude99]

All PWs have to have a limit on time and the SAME time limit regardless of talent on the Team. This is called a Standard , you have to create a Standard for ALL to follow to be equal and fair to all. If this is not done it sets the stage for discrimination, something Graal does not want to do or even get started in. It's like the old saying goes "the strongest will survive". Fair maybe not but then again neither is life or Business for that matter, and after all this is a Business (Graal). You yourself may not think its fair, but for all involved it is because the "Standard" of the time allowed dictates and not any one person or persons. No one not even Stefan or Unixmad once a Standard has been set should vary from it unless they decide to change the Standard for all. This will ensure the equality for all and something I'm sure they want to do. If your PW cannot make it within the time frame permitted by the "Standard " set then do not submit it till you are sure that it can be done in that time frame. It is better to wait till your PW is ready to meet the challenge than to rush to submit your PW when it is not ready and doomed to failure. If you lack the Staff to get it ready by the time frame given , then you also lack the quaified Staff to run it. No matter how good you are or the one or two you may have working for you; lack of Staff will cause failure for the PW regardless of the excellent content it may or maynot have.

[Jeff]

First off, I don't think level count should be a factor in reviews, as one superb level with lots of stuff in it is better than 200 bland ones with plagiarized newmain content.

Second off, Oasis looks to be more of a gold server in development than a playerworld. Not sure about 2230. Oasis has so few staff (and thus low bandwidth) that there is little or nothing to lose in keeping it up.

Third off, I agree that storyline should not even be a factor in reviews. Most playerworlds don't need a storyline, and most that have them have bad storylines. Points should be taken off for a poor storyline, but there should be no penalty for lacking one. Basically there should be a rule to the effect of "Have a good storyline or don't bother, as bad storylines lose you points under creativity."

[Genesis]

Mursamenia how ever u spell it
Cira Baen
Era


all these pw's looked like gold servers

did they have servers like Oasis did for so long???

no if they did those other pws would have been up now

[Milkdude99]

Originally posted by Jeff
First off, I don't think level count should be a factor in reviews, as one superb level with lots of stuff in it is better than 200 bland ones with plagiarized newmain content.

Second off, Oasis looks to be more of a gold server in development than a playerworld. Not sure about 2230. Oasis has so few staff (and thus low bandwidth) that there is little or nothing to lose in keeping it up.

Third off, I agree that storyline should not even be a factor in reviews. Most playerworlds don't need a storyline, and most that have them have bad storylines. Points should be taken off for a poor storyline, but there should be no penalty for lacking one. Basically there should be a rule to the effect of "Have a good storyline or don't bother, as bad storylines lose you points under creativity."

A standard of 200 levels have been given, if you cannot make 200 really good levels with content then don't submit a PW. A PW with 10 excellent levels is just an absurd concept, players will soon get bored with a limited level PW with few levels online (under 200). Issue here is all the levels need to be excellent with interesting content to entice the player if not the PW does not need to go up at all. Lowering standards for Graal is a backward step and not something Graal is wanting or willing to do, this will limit the mass making of sorely limited PWs with mediocre or just plain bad ideas and levels. Any idea is bad if it is already been done to the point of players are tired of looking at it and want something new to do. Yes I agree some ideas players like and will not get bored of; but a PW that consist of nothing but content of already used ideas is redundancy and does nothing to improve Graal.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by Milkdude99
All PWs have to have a limit on time and the SAME time limit regardless of talent on the Team. This is called a Standard , you have to create a Standard for ALL to follow to be equal and fair to all.

Why? How does it benefit Graal? Think of each playerworld as a business venture. Do all business ventures get the same funding? Heck no. This isn't about fairness, this is about doing what is best for Graal. Oasis has far more potential worth to Graal than the average playerworld so it's logical that they would want to give it extra priority.

Originally posted by zell12
Konidias, go make your playworld offline, and then resubmit it and then finish your tinkering. There is no excuse for why you can't do it offline like all the other servers done.

Presumably you don't understand the client/server dynamic. Stefan does, which is why Oasis is still online.

Originally posted by Milkdude99
A standard of 200 levels have been given, if you cannot make 200 really good levels with content then don't submit a PW. A PW with 10 excellent levels is just an absurd concept

Is it? Again I state that, with enough effort, I could use a single level to make a world far superior to N-Pulse that could entertain ten times as many people. And I wouldn't even lay a tile

[Spark910]

The only reason they give a level count is so that there is a worth while enough PW to play on, so it has a decent chance of getting some players for a long period of time. Also if they say 200 outside levels, to fill levels they will mostly add shops, quests etc.. Which makes it easy to meet the quest target. And it stops people sending in about 60level PW as after a while it could get a bit boring as you would have seen everything, so you wouldn't go back there again.

[Milkdude99]

Originally posted by Kaimetsu


Is it? Again I state that, with enough effort, I could use a single level to make a world far superior to N-Pulse that could entertain ten times as many people. And I wouldn't even lay a tile

For how long 10 mins, a day perhaps ? This is very narrow minded of you and not thinking in long term at all. You seem to forget we are dealing with young teenagers who get bored quickly to start with. If you can put enough effort into one level to do that then you can certainly do that to the rest and is my point . Take the time to do it BEFORE you submit it. Kai your logic is tainted by the fact you work on this project and have much to gain or lose by the outcome.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by Milkdude99
For how long 10 mins, a day perhaps ? This is very narrow minded of you and not thinking in long term at all.

Haha, I'm being narrow-minded? You're making some fairly stupid assumptions here, Moon God. Anybody that knows the kind of thing I've been working on recently will know what I'm talking about

[Genesis]

Originally posted by Kaimetsu


Why? How does it benefit Graal? Think of each playerworld as a business venture. Do all business ventures get the same funding? Heck no. This isn't about fairness, this is about doing what is best for Graal. Oasis has far more potential worth to Graal than the average playerworld so it's logical that they would want to give it extra priority.



Presumably you don't understand the client/server dynamic. Stefan does, which is why Oasis is still online.



Is it? Again I state that, with enough effort, I could use a single level to make a world far superior to N-Pulse that could entertain ten times as many people. And I wouldn't even lay a tile

so ur saying u can make a better server with just scripts???

a server is just not scripts that make a server great

its also the community of the server

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by Genesis
so ur saying u can make a better server with just scripts???

a server is just not scripts that make a server great

its also the community of the server

Foolish. I did not say that quality of scripts was the only factor. Game design is obviously also important, but community comes from a well-designed world.

[Milkdude99]

Originally posted by Kaimetsu


Haha, I'm being narrow-minded? You're making some fairly stupid assumptions here, Moon God. Anybody that knows the kind of thing I've been working on recently will know what I'm talking about

Since I am not working on any projects you are how would I know what you’re working on? For that matter what difference does it make? You missed the point of my post and chose to pick out one line to make it appear something else which is normal for you. Try thinking about the entire post and not one line.

[Genesis]

Originally posted by Kaimetsu

Is it? Again I state that, with enough effort, I could use a single level to make a world far superior to N-Pulse that could entertain ten times as many people. And I wouldn't even lay a tile

Originally posted by Kaimetsu


Foolish. I did not say that quality of scripts was the only factor. Game design is obviously also important, but community comes from a well-designed world.

so how could u make a well designed world if u didnot lay a tile?

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by Milkdude99
Since I am not working on any projects you are how would I know what you’re working on?

I didn't say that I expected you to, I merely stated that some people would. Especially those that saw a particular demo posted in the NPC Scripting forum recently.

For that matter what difference does it make? You missed the point of my post

Not at all, you are still making untrue assumptions. You seem to underestimate what Graal is capable of. I could make a world bigger, more varied and far more entertaining than N-Pulse in a single level. How do you plan to prove otherwise?

Originally posted by Genesis
so how could u make a well designed world if u didnot lay a tile?

How indeed? Evidently Moon God does not know either, but it's really quite obvious.

[Jeff]

Quite obvious.

Showimg and, if a need for tiling arises, the tiles matrix.

Could have community, events, and even PKing. Quests, for that matter.

All without once laying a tile.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by Jeff
Quite obvious.

Showimg and, if a need for tiling arises, the tiles matrix.

Psch, the tiles matrix can go to hell. We wouldn't need to use that

[Darlene159]

Is it? Again I state that, with enough effort, I could use a single level to make a world far superior to N-Pulse that could entertain ten times as many people. And I wouldn't even lay a tile

You know, I am getting really tired of you :grrr:
Dont even bother Mr Holyer(sp) than thou...you make me sick

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by Darlene159
You know, I am getting really tired of you :grrr:

Really? But I thought we were best friends

Dont even bother Mr Holyer(sp) than thou...you make me sick

Again you're reading far too much into my posts. It wasn't a personal attack on N-Pulse, I was merely using it as an example. The same would apply for any playerworld. The point I made was perfectly pertinent to the topic, so stop complaining. I'm bored of your belligerent attitude.

[JrTerrorist]

Hmm, I see the angle she was shooting at, its a common mistake :X

For a minute there it did seem like you were bashing N-Pulse.

[Torankusu]

Originally posted by Milkdude99
All PWs have to have a limit on time and the SAME time limit regardless of talent on the Team. This is called a Standard , you have to create a Standard for ALL to follow to be equal and fair to all. If this is not done it sets the stage for discrimination, something Graal does not want to do or even get started in. It's like the old saying goes "the strongest will survive". Fair maybe not but then again neither is life or Business for that matter, and after all this is a Business (Graal). You yourself may not think its fair, but for all involved it is because the "Standard" of the time allowed dictates and not any one person or persons. No one not even Stefan or Unixmad once a Standard has been set should vary from it unless they decide to change the Standard for all. This will ensure the equality for all and something I'm sure they want to do. If your PW cannot make it within the time frame permitted by the "Standard " set then do not submit it till you are sure that it can be done in that time frame. It is better to wait till your PW is ready to meet the challenge than to rush to submit your PW when it is not ready and doomed to failure. If you lack the Staff to get it ready by the time frame given , then you also lack the quaified Staff to run it. No matter how good you are or the one or two you may have working for you; lack of Staff will cause failure for the PW regardless of the excellent content it may or maynot have.

listen to this dude.
everyone else sthu.
kthx the end.

[zell12]

Kai, I understand the client/server side scripter and their differances perfectly. If all of the servers up now that have 75+ people most of the time can make their scripts offline, so can Oasis.

[Darlene159]

whether anyone wants to believe it or not, Moon God has alot of smarts, and alot of Business sense

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by zell12
Kai, I understand the client/server side scripter and their differances perfectly.

Hah, yeah, right.

Explain the differences between client and clientr strings.
Explain why the latter can be preferable.
Explain how clientr strings can be modified in response to clientside events.
Explain why a system designed to achieve the above would be difficult to implement offline.

I'm a scripter, you're not. I know what I'm talking about, you don't.

If all of the servers up now that have 75+ people most of the time can make their scripts offline, so can Oasis.

Those conversions lead to bucketloads of wasted time, bugs and security flaws. They make the server take longer to complete and reduce the quality of the finished product.

Originally posted by Darlene159
whether anyone wants to believe it or not, Moon God has alot of smarts, and alot of Business sense

I don't believe anybody brought that into question. However, I also have a lot of 'smarts'. For him to assume that I was wrong on the single-level issue without even knowing what I was talking about was arrogance in the extreme. His overestimation of his own abilities leads him to underestimate others, and that's not a good trait.

[Milkdude99]

Originally posted by Kaimetsu


Foolish. I did not say that quality of scripts was the only factor. Game design is obviously also important, but community comes from a well-designed world.

For the most part I may agree with you BUT a well-designed World does not always bring in a community. Proof of that is some online currently that have a very large community and yet are far from being well designed. As you see I refrain from using the names of those PWs because it is not my desire to start a flame war about them but anyone who has been on Graal for at least a week knows which ones I am talking about.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by Milkdude99
For the most part I may agree with you BUT a well-designed World does not always bring in a community.

It doesn't matter. It might not be easy to establish a strong community with only a single level, but it's possible. And it's just as possible as with 200-level playerworlds.

[Milkdude99]

Originally posted by Kaimetsu

I don't believe anybody brought that into question. However, I also have a lot of 'smarts'. For him to assume that I was wrong on the single-level issue without even knowing what I was talking about was arrogance in the extreme. His overestimation of his own abilities leads him to underestimate others, and that's not a good trait.

First off you need to read and understand the entire post and not take things out of context Kai. Point was and still is IF you have the ability to make such a level and I am sure you do then APPLY that to ALL the levels to the PW. If you can do it to one then you also can do it to 200 levels, this is my point. Take your time and make sure all the 200 levels meet this same quality and not cut the PW short by only making some to that degree. The requirement is 200 levels , like it or not so take the time to do it right before it is submitted. THAT is my point Kai.

[Milkdude99]

Originally posted by Kaimetsu


It doesn't matter. It might not be easy to establish a strong community with only a single level, but it's possible. And it's just as possible as with 200-level playerworlds.

Don't you think this is somewhat a stupid argument? Lets try to post reality and not some nonsense of what one level could or could not be. Based in reality one level no matter how awesome it is would never go up online so posting an argument over a mute insignificant point is just a waste of time.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by Milkdude99
First off you need to read and understand the entire post and not take things out of context Kai.

And you need to understand my basic point before you assume that I have misunderstood.

Point was and still is IF you have the ability to make such a level and I am sure you do then APPLY that to ALL the levels to the PW.

Exactly. By saying this, you illustrate that you still don't understand my basic point. This theoretical PW would be bigger than N-Pulse, but only contain one level. How can that be?

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by Milkdude99
Don't you think this is somewhat a stupid argument?

Not at all. The rules prevent me from submitting one-level playerworlds, despite the possibility that such worlds would be supremely playable. They assume that a playerworld cannot be worthwhile without having 200 levels, and that's a bad assumption to make. One level could be a thousand times better than most of the playerworlds online at the moment.

[Milkdude99]

Originally posted by Kaimetsu


Not at all. The rules prevent me from submitting one-level playerworlds, despite the possibility that such worlds would be supremely playable. They assume that a playerworld cannot be worthwhile without having 200 levels, and that's a bad assumption to make. One level could be a thousand times better than most of the playerworlds online at the moment.

I strongly believe their is wisdom to this of making 200 levels for a few reasons.
1. Cuts down on the Players submitting 50 level PWs done in 2 weeks and calling it the "Best thing that has hit Graal"
2. Makes the Players plan better for their PW because they have alot of levels to make and not just a few Awesome ones.
3. 200 levels has a better chance to hold interest to players when there is more to do and spread out more. Trying to cram too much in a few levels only creates a cluttered disorganized look to the PW. Not very attractive to the player.

These are just a few off the top of my head. I have not or will not say smaller than 200 levels could have the same effect if planned right BUT as a general rule no. This will make the players take their time to do it right and not rush it, plan it, work on it till it is right. I did not say or assume in any way less than 200 levels could not be a good PW, this is where you assumed I thought this. Sure awesome levels can be made under 200 and be quite playable BUT there has to be a standard and this has been set as you know to 200 levels, so making a mute point over some virtual one level PW that may or may not keep players attention and its existence will never be is still in my book a waste of time to post on.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by Milkdude99
1. Cuts down on the Players submitting 50 level PWs done in 2 weeks and calling it the "Best thing that has hit Graal"

Agreed. It sets guidelines for the incompetent, but shouldn't also be strictly applied to the gifted.

2. Makes the Players plan better for their PW because they have alot of levels to make and not just a few Awesome ones.

Again, I agree. But it should only be a guideline - the PWA shouldn't throw out a PW just because it doesn't achieve the 200-level minimum. There are other factors to consider.

3. 200 levels has a better chance to hold interest to players when there is more to do and spread out more. Trying to cram too much in a few levels only creates a cluttered disorganized look to the PW. Not very attractive to the player.

That depends on the specific implementation. At peak times most servers have at most 100 players. At 100 levels, that's one player per level. At 200, one for every two levels. At 1000? Dude, you're just never gonna actually meet anybody else. Shrinking the world allows us to bring the players closer together.

I did not say or assume in any way less than 200 levels could not be a good PW, this is where you assumed I thought this.

No I didn't. You just assumed I assumed it.

Sure awesome levels can be made under 200 and be quite playable BUT there has to be a standard

No, there doesn't. Why would there?

[G_yoshi]

No doubts in my mind that Kaimetsu could create a vast world with only one level.

[zell12]

It shouldn't be difficult to create scripts offline if you know how. Then test them online at a server like everyone else did. Faheria, Oasis, DK, and the other servers deserve no special treatment. If the servers up now got this far without special private server **** then so can Oasis. I don't care you think your a god, or if you think koni is your demi, Oasis isn't special.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by zell12
It shouldn't be difficult to create scripts offline if you know how.

Ah, I notice that you could not answer my questions. I think that speaks for itself.

[tlf288]

Originally posted by zell12
It shouldn't be difficult to create scripts offline if you know how.

Only if you are perfect and know absolutely everything about the NPC-Server. Even then it would be hard.

I don't even think Kai could do it very well....

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by tlf288

I don't even think Kai could do it very well....

Single scripts are easy. But when you're talking about a whole playerworld? There're just gonna be too many needless bugs.

[zell12]

Thats what that month of tinkering time is for. And you can still ask people to let you on their server to test a script if you need it anyway. My point still stands. If the playerworlds out now can do it, so can Oasis, Frolic, Val, DK, and all the other servers in private.

[Ghost Pirate]

Originally posted by zell12
Thats what that month of tinkering time is for. And you can still ask people to let you on their server to test a script if you need it anyway. My point still stands. If the playerworlds out now can do it, so can Oasis, Frolic, Val, DK, and all the other servers in private.

So lets say a playerworld with 129 scripts that need to be modified with the npcserver would take or should take as much time as a playerworld with 40 scripts that need modifing?

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by zell12
Thats what that month of tinkering time is for.

A month of wasted time that leads to unforeseen bugs that you, with your limited knowledge of the subject matter, cannot understand.

My point still stands. If the playerworlds out now can do it, so can Oasis, Frolic, Val, DK, and all the other servers in private.

Except that the playerworlds out now can't do it, and introduce a huge amount of bugs with their bumbling efforts.

[zell12]

Explain how all the other servers did it? They never had no yeah being private to make a server. They did it in the required time of two weeks. And contuned to develop while open to the public.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by zell12
Explain how all the other servers did it?

They did it thus: Badly, slowly, inefficiently. Developing everything online is faster and leads to fewer bugs.