Global Development Team Management

[Clockwork]

Originally Posted by fowlplay4

It's private because I actually want to it get worked on and not criticized to hell before anything is even made.

You sound like the nubs in the playerworld hiring forum.

"I dunt want to tell peoples because they'll say it's dumb or steal my ideas!"

[Elk]

Originally Posted by fowlplay4

It's private because I actually want to it get worked on and not criticized to hell before anything is even made.

+rep

now you understand why I keep things secret at times

[fowlplay4]

Originally Posted by Clockwork

You sound like the nubs in the playerworld hiring forum.

"I dunt want to tell peoples because they'll say it's dumb or steal my ideas!"

I really don't understand why you're pursuing the route of an ******* and continue to disrespect my right to privacy. Hell it's reasons like this and the way the forums are that I feel I don't need to tell the forums anything.

Originally Posted by cbk1994

Criticism can also be a good thing. At least layout your plans once you have them made so others can comment on them. As the GDT your ultimate goal, I assume, is helping Graal out as a whole, and the community may have some good suggestions on doing that.

If this project was big enough I would do this but it really isn't nor is the scope, so suggestions from outside the Global forum are unneeded at the current stage which is why it's remaining private.

[WhiteDragon]

Originally Posted by Clockwork

You sound like the nubs in the playerworld hiring forum.

"I dunt want to tell peoples because they'll say it's dumb or steal my ideas!"

This really wasn't warranted. Fowlplay is trying to get something done and you are harassing him on the forums.

Go away.

[Hiro]

Originally Posted by fowlplay4

I really don't understand why you're pursuing the route of an ******* and continue to disrespect my right to privacy. Hell it's reasons like this and the way the forums are that I feel I don't need to tell the forums anything.

animosity aside, i wouldn't like to see the GDT as something in the background of graal: if it's a private project then i understand, but this is being worked on as a project of the GDT, so it should be public. you could give us details such as, for instance, what it is while not compromising the project as whole through-i don't know-you're feelings getting hurt because of the people who are inevitably going to say negative things about it

[DustyPorViva]

I'm not a big fan of keeping it a secret to avoid critics. In the end you'll end up with a server you think is great and works but full of flaws you just can't see yourself(and it's really hard for anyone else working on it to see as well). However, if it's to avoid drama and such that's understandable... but criticism is a good thing people.

However, I am fond of secrecy because in this day and age it's pointless to get people all hyped up when there is a very high likelihood the server is never going to see the light of day. I hate crushing hope like that, and if I were to have a project no one would know about it until it was beta-released or something.

[fowlplay4]

See response to cbk's quote in my previous post.

I've stated my opinions and shared all the information that I felt was important. So it's being left at that, you'll find out more when it's released.

So back to what this thread was originally about:

Congratz to Soala, we have a long road ahead of us.

[cbk1994]

So, the GDT is developing a server rather than working on things to benefit Graal as a whole? That's somewhat disappointing.

[fowlplay4]

Yeah sure why not.

[Demisis_P2P]

Originally Posted by benpoke103

We're actually working on something at the moment that fowlplay4 has conned up. It will be something that will benefit future Playerworld developers to get them started. I'll let him speak regarding the matter further.

Originally Posted by fowlplay4

Yes, I am working with my fellow GDT on a project and as ben said it is aimed towards new server owners, that's all public really needs to know.

So, just wait for it to be released (Maybe a week or two depending on my schedule).

Originally Posted by cbk1994

So, the GDT is developing a server rather than working on things to benefit Graal as a whole? That's somewhat disappointing.

It doesn't sound like a server. Unless it's something like testbed?

[Bell]

Stop it, some of you sound like a bunch of politicians arguing over which party is right and which is wrong. This is the very reason it was decided that the GDT should have some place to discuss certain things that don't need public opinion right away. If the public discussed every detail of every project that passed through Graal, absolutely nothing would ever get finished. Oh wait, that happens already, I forgot. People give up on projects because they are tired of having to defend every pixel they lay or every onFunction they write.

fowlyplay4 had a private project he was working on that a few members of GDT offered to give him assistance on. It is not a server but it was found to be a possible benefit to some members of the development community. Its sort of like Dusty's freetiles. People can use them if they want or they don't have to. If they don't like something so be it, he doesn't have to change one just because someone hates it. They just don't need to use it.

When and if the project gets done you'll get all the opportunities you want to criticize it. Until such time just stop being so negative and asking people to defend themselves for things you know nothing about yet.

[Inverness]

It seems I'm late to the discussion, but I'll say that some of you seem to have the mistaken impression that the GDT is required to allow criticism from the community and/or disclose what we're working on for you ingrates to judge. It does not work that way.

If a fellow GDT member wants some constructive criticism, we're here to provide when asked.

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by Inverness

It seems I'm late to the discussion, but I'll say that some of you seem to have the mistaken impression that the GDT is required to allow criticism from the community and/or disclose what we're working on for you ingrates to judge. It does not work that way.

If a fellow GDT member wants some constructive criticism, we're here to provide when asked.

Well, aren't you high and mighty?

We (the players) pay for Graal, and the GDT are an extension of a global staff team, so I don't think it would be ridiculous to assume they should be able to accept criticism from players. At the very least, the members of the GDT should be able to communicate in a somewhat professional manner rather than arrogantly placing themselves above the meaningless players.

Note, however, that I'm not trying to attack Jerret; he's one of the only GDT members who I've seen actually do anything. If the rest of the GDT had his work ethic, I wouldn't be at all concerned about the actions the GDT has taken. However, in its short existence, the GDT has proved almost completely useless, hence why I think you should give a general idea of your plans. I'm not talking about debating specifics (or "pixels", as Bell said), but instead your general plans.

Do you plan to release a new server? Do you plan to improve documentation? That's the kind of thing that needs to be released for scrutiny.

edit: cute signature btw

[Inverness]

Originally Posted by cbk1994

Well, aren't you high and mighty?

Yes.

Originally Posted by cbk1994

We (the players) pay for Graal, and the GDT are an extension of a global staff team, so I don't think it would be ridiculous to assume they should be able to accept criticism from players. At the very least, the members of the GDT should be able to communicate in a somewhat professional manner rather than arrogantly placing themselves above the meaningless players.

GDT members can accept criticism at their leisure, it is recommended, but not forced.

Originally Posted by cbk1994

Note, however, that I'm not trying to attack Jerret; he's one of the only GDT members who I've seen actually do anything. If the rest of the GDT had his work ethic, I wouldn't be at all concerned about the actions the GDT has taken. However, in its short existence, the GDT has proved almost completely useless, hence why I think you should give a general idea of your plans. I'm not talking about debating specifics (or "pixels", as Bell said), but instead your general plans.

Do you plan to release a new server? Do you plan to improve documentation? That's the kind of thing that needs to be released for scrutiny.

Jerret can share what he is doing at his leisure, don't nag him about it.

And if you think the GDT is useless, perhaps you should join and try making it less useless?

[Gambet]

Originally Posted by Inverness

some of you seem to have the mistaken impression that the GDT is required to allow criticism from the community and/or disclose what we're working on for you ingrates to judge.

Originally Posted by Inverness

And if you think the GDT is useless, perhaps you should join and try making it less useless?

If becoming a member of the GDT entitles belittling the community, no thanks.

[Mark Sir Link]

Originally Posted by Inverness

ingrates

implying the GDT has done anything to be grateful for

[Clockwork]

Originally Posted by Gambet

If becoming a member of the GDT entitles belittling the community, no thanks.

+rep.

I view the GDT as nothing more than developers doing what they've always done, except trying to get more noticed for it.

[Soala]

Originally Posted by Gambet

If becoming a member of the GDT entitles belittling the community, no thanks.

You can make a GDT hate club if you want, no one will stop you, and I'm sure many people out there have the same negative feeling about us.

But please, hear me out:

From things that I've heard and from many people out there, you all think the GDT is worthless. Arguments ?

-Oh look, a 17 years old french kid will manage somewhat the worse team of developers ever
-I wonder if the GDT will ever be useful, the team was made quite some months ago !
-Oh my god, this is ridiculous, that kid will never be able to manage and organize a team made of people older than him, it's getting nowhere !

And more...

What do I have to say ? What are my own arguments ?

- I offered my help to hopefuly get most of things done. I can promise there will be some changes.
- We are not lifeless zombies that are going to work 24/7 to offer our help. We all got a life, most members got a real job and the way we work will probably stay the same.
- And then, you can think whatever you want about me, but as young as I am, you must aswell realize that I'm facing school, exams and such. I didn't offer my help for nothing still.

Again, say anything you want to this, I will make sure to enjoy that job no matter what happens.
Miracles, miracles, that's all you guys are wishing for. We are not super heroes, but it takes a full team to make one.

[LordSquirt]

I don't think your age or nationality has to do with how any players view the GDT. I haven't read all the posts, however, I don't see one person belittling you since your age and since you're french.

I think most people are just questioning what exactly the GDT has to do.

PS: I never congratulated, so good job on your promotion!

[Mark Sir Link]

Originally Posted by alexandralove

You can make a GDT hate club if you want, no one will stop you, and I'm sure many people out there have the same negative feeling about us.

But please, hear me out:

From things that I've heard and from many people out there, you all think the GDT is worthless. Arguments ?

-Oh look, a 17 years old french kid will manage somewhat the worse team of developers ever
-I wonder if the GDT will ever be useful, the team was made quite some months ago !
-Oh my god, this is ridiculous, that kid will never be able to manage and organize a team made of people older than him, it's getting nowhere !

And more...

What do I have to say ? What are my own arguments ?

- I offered my help to hopefuly get most of things done. I can promise there will be some changes.
- We are not lifeless zombies that are going to work 24/7 to offer our help. We all got a life, most members got a real job and the way we work will probably stay the same.
- And then, you can think whatever you want about me, but as young as I am, you must aswell realize that I'm facing school, exams and such. I didn't offer my help for nothing still.

Again, say anything you want to this, I will make sure to enjoy that job no matter what happens.
Miracles, miracles, that's all you guys are wishing for. We are not super heroes, but it takes a full team to make one.

imaginary criticisms.

I doubt as many people would care about the existence of the GDT if you all weren't so insistent on keeping a high profile and touting your membership, all while having done just about nothing to help Graal.

Rather than trying to prove yourselves with words, why not just get to work on releasing something. Actions speak louder than words.

[Soala]

Originally Posted by Mark Sir Link

imaginary criticisms.

I doubt as many people would care about the existence of the GDT if you all weren't so insistent on keeping a high profile and touting your membership, all while having done just about nothing to help Graal.

Rather than trying to prove yourselves with words, why not just get to work on releasing something. Actions speak louder than words.

We are actually working on something, and I'd be thankful if you tried, just a little, to read what Bell said:

Originally Posted by Bell

fowlyplay4 had a private project he was working on that a few members of GDT offered to give him assistance on. It is not a server but it was found to be a possible benefit to some members of the development community. Its sort of like Dusty's freetiles. People can use them if they want or they don't have to. If they don't like something so be it, he doesn't have to change one just because someone hates it. They just don't need to use it.

When and if the project gets done you'll get all the opportunities you want to criticize it. Until such time just stop being so negative and asking people to defend themselves for things you know nothing about yet.

Of course, this is not the only thing being worked on. I am myself working on releasing something, and got some other projects running.

Stop asking such questions, I'm tired to have to repeat the same things over and over. Thanks.

[LoneAngelIbesu]

Originally Posted by Mark Sir Link

I doubt as many people would care about the existence of the GDT if you all weren't so insistent on keeping a high profile and touting your membership, all while having done just about nothing to help Graal.

To be fair, a part of the group's mission to help servers with development troubles. We have to advertise to do that. And releases can't be the only form of advertisement.

Originally Posted by Mark Sir Link

Rather than trying to prove yourselves with words, why not just get to work on releasing something. Actions speak louder than words.

I've personally released something. Have yet to see any buy a single person comment on it. In my opinion, the GDT should have a better way to share releases than to post in the levels/graphics/scripting subforums. But that would require some work from Stefan, or some other scripter with access to global stuff.

[Inverness]

Originally Posted by Mark Sir Link

imaginary criticisms.

I doubt as many people would care about the existence of the GDT if you all weren't so insistent on keeping a high profile and touting your membership, all while having done just about nothing to help Graal.

Rather than trying to prove yourselves with words, why not just get to work on releasing something. Actions speak louder than words.

No matter what anyone does, people will still find something to complain about.

As for high profiles, one of the aspects of being a GDT requires a high profile so that developers can take advantage of those services the GDT is willing to offer.

And who is trying to prove his or her self with words and not actions?

[coreys]

Originally Posted by Mark Sir Link

all while having done just about nothing to help Graal.

Individually, many of the GDT members (especially the scripters) have done plenty to help Graal. People like Jerret and Inverness have released many, many scripts to help servers.

But the GDT as a whole is another story, since those who have helped out, such as the two mentioned, were doing that long before they were in the GDT. The GDT hasn't really changed much of anything.

Perhaps if the GDT wasn't just a team of people doing exactly what they were doing before (not necessarily a bad thing, individually) and willing to help individual servers and projects without having to have a particular interest in them then the GDT would serve a worthwhile purpose.

[WhiteDragon]

All the GDT has been so far is a group of people that players can yell at because they are bitter about the state of Graal.

The blame for the players yelling at the GDT lies with no one in the GDT, only the players and the upper-echelons of Graal administration.


GDT is still budding and they have released some stuff already. Being bitter will make them release less when we need more. So stop.

[Mark Sir Link]

Originally Posted by alexandralove

We are actually working on something, and I'd be thankful if you tried, just a little, to read what Bell said

I read what she said, but so what?

I don't understand the desperate pleas for attention when as far as the average player can tell, the GDT has contributed nothing.

Again, I am sure a release would appease the more reasonable members of the community and don't even bother trying to convince me that Graal and it's management has ever cared about what people with serious criticisms have said.

[Inverness]

Originally Posted by Mark Sir Link

I read what she said, but so what?

I don't understand the desperate pleas for attention when as far as the average player can tell, the GDT has contributed nothing.

Again, I am sure a release would appease the more reasonable members of the community and don't even bother trying to convince me that Graal and it's management has ever cared about what people with serious criticisms have said.

Who is desperately pleading for attention?

And I'd like to know why you believe the GDT should be concerned about appeasement.

[fowlplay4]

Originally Posted by Mark Sir Link

I don't understand the desperate pleas for attention when as far as the average player can tell, the GDT has contributed nothing.

or that we even exist then again it doesn't really affect them, but this is just dragging on now let's just let this thread die.

[Mark Sir Link]

Originally Posted by Inverness

Who is desperately pleading for attention?

And I'd like to know why you believe the GDT should be concerned about appeasement.

there have been multiple threads regarding the GDT in the past week alone.

It doesn't really matter if the GDT is going for appeasement or not because it is obvious you cannot satisfy all of GraalOnline's players at once considering how diverse the playerbase is, but I am unsure why the GDT is creating threads and arguing with players in them instead of actually doing something.

I don't think the existence of the GDT is a bad thing and I'm excited at the potential they have to do good for the game, but that's just it, it's only potential right now.

[Clockwork]

Why doesn't moderation simply make a release forum for free-to-use stuff. Move the code gallery into it as a sub forum and add a graphics sub forum and so on... would make it easier to find certain things rather than exploring threads with loads of pages, like the free-tiles thread.

And since GDT needs to feel special about their releases, have a sub forum specifically for GDT releases -.-

[Mark Sir Link]

Originally Posted by Clockwork

Why doesn't moderation simply make a release forum for free-to-use stuff. Move the code gallery into it as a sub forum and add a graphics sub forum and so on... would make it easier to find certain things rather than exploring threads with loads of pages, like the free-tiles thread.

And since GDT needs to feel special about their releases, have a sub forum specifically for GDT releases -.-

would also be nice to see a GDT blog or something where they document releases and dates to make it easy to see what they're doing/have done.

[salesman]

Originally Posted by Clockwork

Why doesn't moderation simply make a release forum for free-to-use stuff. Move the code gallery into it as a sub forum and add a graphics sub forum and so on... would make it easier to find certain things rather than exploring threads with loads of pages, like the free-tiles thread.

And since GDT needs to feel special about their releases, have a sub forum specifically for GDT releases -.-

Originally Posted by Mark Sir Link

would also be nice to see a GDT blog or something where they document releases and dates to make it easy to see what they're doing/have done.

Both very good ideas that should definitely be considered by the GDT!

For the public release forum, it might be better just to add sections to the already existing dev forums. Much like the scripting sub-forum has a code gallery, the graphics sub-forum should have a public graphics section, etc. I'm not sure if free levels would be used very often, but why the hell not?

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by Clockwork

Why doesn't moderation simply make a release forum for free-to-use stuff. Move the code gallery into it as a sub forum and add a graphics sub forum and so on... would make it easier to find certain things rather than exploring threads with loads of pages, like the free-tiles thread.

And since GDT needs to feel special about their releases, have a sub forum specifically for GDT releases -.-

Stefan doesn't want any more forums added because there are so many now.

Sad that a thread was started to announce the head of the GDT. We should be offering congrats and encouragement, but instead the GDT end up having to defend themselves before they even really get started in a thread not even about that. A little positive encouragement goes a long way guys.