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Originally Posted by Rufus
Theme / Layout
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While I don't see any incredible difference between the forum structure you've suggested, and the existing forum structure -- indeed, the only differences at all are the playerworld-specific forums, which aren't really all that useful, considering the existence of privately-owned forums, I do agree that the forum theme is not very reflective of Graal. This isn't entirely surprising, considering that there aren't any
actual designers on the Graal team, to my knowledge. I think a little investment in a design firm, like vBSkins.com, might go a long way. Redesigning the GraalOnline.com site wouldn't be a bad decision, either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rufus
Moderation / Restrictions
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I don't particularly disagree, here. However, I'm not sure if the rules are all that gray to begin with. Indeed, most seem pretty black and white. For example:
Have a question about a deleted post, thread, or edited post? Forum PM the moderator that did it, and do NOT derail the thread asking why, or discussing it. This makes members have to sift through a derailed thread just to see replies to what the thread is about.
Rules about flaming, or "provok[ing] another user into an ‘insultive/flame argument’ ", as the rules put it, aren't very clear and concise. This is where moderator discretion comes in, and the main problem between moderators and those who dislike them comes in to play, too (not so much with the rule itself, but the principle of moderator discretion). What needs to be understood, though, is that we are all relatively immature. When left to our own devices, without moderation, we are led inexorably towards fighting. Again, I bring up the Valikorlian forums (a simple google search of "valikorlia forums" will lead you to them), which are a prime example of what happens when a group of teenagers get together on the internet without any moderation.
The argument that rules ought to simply be a guideline is a hopeful one, but effective rules are rules in which there are no gray areas at all. In fact, I doubt that having lenient rules would help this forum at all. In return, we'd have moderators that must use their prerogative when moderating, and I just have this feeling that those that dislike the moderators
now would have even more to complain about.
Perhaps I have a bias, because I am the one that sifts through posts and edits or deletes them, following really my own set of acceptable behavior, since there are zero rules that users are made to follow. I have my weekly meal of angry PMs and insulting responses from users that feel that I'm a corrupt, power-hungry guy that's out to fight them at every turn.
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Originally Posted by Rufus
Negative Community
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I don't find it all that amusing. In fact, I think it's the biggest problem this forum has. I personally think that the problem with Graal is not a lack of updates, or anything on Stefan or Unixmad's end, but that the community, as a whole, is very negative. This can't be said about other online games I have played. Well, it can to an extent, but not nearly as far as Graal can claim.
I also don't believe that trolls are just a fact that forums have to deal with. Banning is a rather effective weapon against people like that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rufus
If change was promoted and positivity was reflected, would these threads stop? Probably. Are these threads going to continue so long as nothing changes? Definitely.
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This is where I believe you and the fellow group of anti-establishment forum-goers are getting it completely wrong. You place the burden of change on a single party: anybody but yourselves. I'd use an analogy, but there's somebody here that doesn't really understand them, so I'll have to say this plainly. You can't honestly expect change from one person, without offering up something in return. Offering up the possibility that you'll stop being mean isn't going to cut it.
The fact is, no matter how horrible the moderators may be (and I use moderators as a general term for the people that run the forums), they are the ones in charge. They are the people that decide whether or not your demands are met. This isn't a democracy, and you must concede first to their will, before they will consider giving you what you ask for.
It's not a fact that anybody likes, but it's the way it works everywhere. What users lack the most is diplomacy. You'd be amazed as to what can get done if people asked for things in a diplomatic manner, rather than in a barbaric manner.
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Originally Posted by Rufus
With all this in mind, how can you say that Unixmad, Stefan, Moon Goddess and Sam are not at fault in their complete disregard for how the playerbase feels about the forums? They haven't even asked as far as I know. All of these issues are linked together in the lack of effort that is put in by the people in charge. What you guys actually do is assume from the minority of the people that post here and instead of branching out, being proactive in solving the problems, you just continue as though this is as good as it gets. Since the forums became free there was an initial increase in players, yet it doesn't feel like it has changed at all. This is why people complain, and this is why people are unhappy about the forums. Acting like an elitist and telling these people to "take a different approach" is fruitless, because the majority of us have tried it all before. I just don't know if they care.
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Because I don't particularly think that Unixmad, Stefan, et al. are
disregarding how users feel about the forums. I'm guessing that they are simply regarding it as loud banter from a group of angry protesters that don't really seem to understand how protesting works at all.
I also don't particularly believe that the rules in place are good rules at all, or that the moderation team has done a fantastic job with public relations. What I do believe is that any approach to changing the way things are should be a proactive approach, and sitting around complaining is the farthest thing from proactive.
I do support voting in at least one supermoderator, who would work with Unixmad, Darlene, and Sam to form some kind of compromise between what you guys want, and what Unixmad wants. If Unixmad et al. think that things can continue going the way they have been, without any kind of repercussions, then they are sadly mistaken, because there is a problem here. If you guys think that you can go doing things the way you have been doing things, you are just as equally mistaken. Unixmad will not get everything he wants. You guys will not get everything you want.
A compromise hinges on the prerequisite that, as I said before, you guys submit to Unixmad's will first, and prove that you can handle yourself in a mature matter, and then start making these requests in a diplomatic manner.
02-09-2009, 03:26 AM
Linear Mode
