Managing Players

[cbk1994]

I've been working on servers for a while now, and I believe I've found a system to effectively deal with players, while letting developers do work.

First, I propose removing all different "departments". All development becomes "Staff". All management (manager, administrator) becomes "Admin". This is for public; it is okay to maintain a structure within a server. However, it should be limited. It is important that you still have a basic hierarchy.

The number represents how many of this staff there should be.

Manager [1] [Admin] - should be someone who is available to staff members. The job of the manager is not to develop, but to make sure everything runs smoothly. The manager needs to make sure staff get along, and that they have everything they need.

Administrator [1; 2 for large servers] [Admin] - should be someone trustworthy. They should have rights to hire/fire, in case of an emergency, but should not use these rights unless it is urgent (e.g. someone is going to delete things). The administrator keeps an eye on things, making sure players' needs are met.

Development Chief [Staff] - only needs the rights needed to do their job. This person is not in charge of a department (e.g. NAT Admin), but is a normal developer, who can be trusted to make sure everything runs smoothly in "their" department, and make sure quality standards are met. This person is also trusted with the task of hiring. This does not mean they get the rights to do it themselves; they are trusted with deciding who will be best for the job.

Development [Staff] - these people have differing rights. They have only the rights needed to do their job. Why does a graphic maker need to be able to warp? Development chiefs also fall under this category; they don't receive any extra rights just for being the chief, unless they need rights to check on how other people are doing. This is why it's very important that there is an active manager. The manager has to make sure the developers have the rights they need.


That's the end of development staff. What about non-developmental staff? They fall under "Player Relations". There is only one type of player relations staff. There is no reason for a chief of any kind; the manager can handle the hiring of these people. There should always be at least one player relations staff member on! This means that you may need fifteen player relations, if you have a large server. Additionally, when the manager or server administrator is not busy, they can put on a player relations tag and help. Player relation staff members should all have the same rights, so that no one feels like they are not important. I recommend the following rights:

• Warp to players
• Summon players
• Disconnect players
• Jail players

Some of these rights are not possible without RC being given. I propose making your own staff tool for these people; there is never an excuse for a non-developmental staff having RC unless it is absolutely necessary. These staff should have an easy way to contact the manager or a server administrator. Email, is nice. You could also set up a Twitter account, and these staff can send messages to the manager in an emergency.

PR staff should deal with players needs only, and contact a staff or administrator when they are unable to help someone with something (a glitch in a script, can't log on, "I swear it was my brother who was hacking", etc).

Many staff like to wear tags as they work. For example, level makers will wear their "LAT" tag while they are creating a level. First of all, following this system, there is no such thing as a "level maker" or a "LAT", only a developer staff. Staff should never wear their tag unless it is essential to the task. There is no need to wear your tag while scripting, unless it is necessary. Player Relations, on the other hand, should always wear their tag while they are helping so that they can be recognized. Administrators should wear their tag as well, when they are not overwhelmed with work. However, it should be clear to players that they need to go to Administrators, and eventually Staff, as a very last resort (e.g. no PRs are on, or the PRs are unable to assist the player).

I believe this system is able to keep players happy, while also keeping staff happy and efficient.

Comments?

[LoneAngelIbesu]

The general consensus is that development staff wear their corresponding tags (LAT, GAT, NAT, etc), so that people know who to contact. What good is contacting a GAT, when there's something wrong with your inventory? Personally, I think PR staff are pointless. If the staff member doesn't get an RC, then the position they're in is otiose. All PR staff ever do is forward a message to the corresponding department (got a problem with a player?: forwarded to GPs; inventory screwed up?: forwarded to NATs; level not loading correctly?: forwarded to LATs; somebody stole your personal body?: forwarded to GATs). Essentially, all that's left for them to do is answer questions regarding the use of the server, which wouldn't be needed at all if you provide a decent tutorial.

Departmentalizing (meaning, you have heads of departments that run the show) is essential to most servers, especially large servers. The manager deals with the huge issues and schedules, and the department heads deal with all the technical stuff. On Valikorlia, a department head as always been the person to hire staff; the manager just gets the final say-so. Consequently, department heads also do the firing.

You can run your server like this, but I'll run mine how I like to (not that I run a server, but still). But, I definitely think that it's important that development staff have their tags on all the time, and that PR are useless.

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu

But, I definitely think that it's important that development staff have their tags on all the time, and that PR are useless.

I agree. the biggest problem that I have found is that a lot of NATs, LATs, and GATs do not want to be bothered with questions, and a lot of people feel that those staff members shouldnt have to answer players.

[Nataxo]

nice system, and PR are not pointless in my opinion.


although its true you need 2 know who to contact for a developer problem...

[Frankie]

I don't really like it.

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu

The general consensus is that development staff wear their corresponding tags (LAT, GAT, NAT, etc), so that people know who to contact.

Perhaps another way to deal with this would be to create a system for reporting bugs. Most of the time, development staff are on tag and won't respond to you. What's the point in that?

If the staff member doesn't get an RC, then the position they're in is otiose. All PR staff ever do is forward a message to the corresponding department [...] Essentially, all that's left for them to do is answer questions regarding the use of the server, which wouldn't be needed at all if you provide a decent tutorial.

The problem is that players still have questions. A lot of players don't go through tutorials, also. And, you can't answer all questions someone might have in a tutorial. I think it's quite efficient to have someone manage who the reports are going to. These people prevent staff from dealing with crazy PMs that don't relate to them or that they can't do anything about. It's like a secretary. PR staff could also deal with uploading and such, but they'd have to be given RC. It really depends on how your server works.

Departmentalizing (meaning, you have heads of departments that run the show) is essential to most servers, especially large servers. The manager deals with the huge issues and schedules, and the department heads deal with all the technical stuff. On Valikorlia, a department head as always been the person to hire staff; the manager just gets the final say-so. Consequently, department heads also do the firing.

Perhaps it could be the chiefs job to manage who is doing what task, in addition to what I've already said. However, there is no reason someone needs to be the "Scripting Admin" or whatever. They still should only get the rights needed to perform their job.

You can run your server like this, but I'll run mine how I like to (not that I run a server, but still).

All servers are set up differently, what works for one server may not work for all.

But, I definitely think that it's important that development staff have their tags on all the time, and that PR are useless.

What about when the development staff don't want to be bothered? I find it better to have the staff only be bothered with what they need to do, rather than random players asking them questions (how much does a _______ cost?, etc)

Originally Posted by Darlene159

I agree. the biggest problem that I have found is that a lot of NATs, LATs, and GATs do not want to be bothered with questions, and a lot of people feel that those staff members shouldnt have to answer players.

There is no reason that staff should be bothered with questions when a PR could easily answer the questions. This allows staff to be more productive, and only be disrupted by what is important to their job.

Originally Posted by Frankie

I don't really like it.

Why not?

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by cbk1994

There is no reason that staff should be bothered with questions when a PR could easily answer the questions. This allows staff to be more productive, and only be disrupted by what is important to their job.

That would be fine if you had PR staff that could answer questions in scripting, gfx, and levels. I get "I dont script", "I dont do graphics", or "I dont make levels". Seems it would be hard to have staff that can answer questions in every area
I quit asking questions because either staff dont answer or are rude when they do (a lot of the time, not all)

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by Darlene159

That would be fine if you had PR staff that could answer questions in scripting, gfx, and levels. I get "I dont script", "I dont do graphics", or "I dont make levels". Seems it would be hard to have staff that can answer questions in every area
I quit asking questions because either staff dont answer or are rude when they do (a lot of the time, not all)

The idea would be that PR staff are able to make notes which other staff can read.

For example, they could leave a note for scripters "There's a glitch in the inventory where you can't scroll".

This way, staff aren't bothered with questions that they can't answer, wasting their development time. PRs could answer questions about the game immediately, and leave notes for others.

[Pimmeh]

Originally Posted by cbk1994

The idea would be that PR staff are able to make notes which other staff can read.

For example, they could leave a note for scripters "There's a glitch in the inventory where you can't scroll".

This way, staff aren't bothered with questions that they can't answer, wasting their development time. PRs could answer questions about the game immediately, and leave notes for others.

Cba quoting your larger post.
I think its a good, logical, setup.
And PR is useful, look at GMs in WoW? You dont need one for every department though, just one or two online at any time period.

I never bothered myself by giving ranks to people though, in a server you shouldn't need that much staff that no one knows every "employee".

Just make sure that everyone knows their place, and your good.

[Frankie]

I know I was really blunt in my reply, just trying to think of a way to explain it.

[Inverness]

I think all staff should have RC, builds community. Why don't you want non-development staff having RC? Segregation went out a long time ago.

Also, I am NPC Admin on Valikorlia, making me head of NAT and the one with the final say (besides the Manager(s)) on everything scripted related. So you're saying I don't need to be scripting admin or have all rights? I also do stuff beyond my job, like banning, jailing, and banning.

Also, if a player has questions that were answered in the tutorial that he or she didn't do then its their own stupid fault.

I also put my NPC Admin tag on when I'm working so people know who to come to if there are bugs and stuff.

I suppose I could script a support ticket system sometime in the future, that could be used for bug reporting and other things.

I wish Stefan would release external scripted windows so I could integrate jail system into RC.

[Nataxo]

Originally Posted by Inverness

I also do stuff beyond my job, like banning, jailing, and banning.

[Inverness]

Originally Posted by Nataxo

I said that twice on purpose, if that's what you're pointing out. Extra emphasis on the banning.

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by Inverness

Also, I am NPC Admin on Valikorlia, making me head of NAT and the one with the final say (besides the Manager(s)) on everything scripted related. So you're saying I don't need to be scripting admin or have all rights? I also do stuff beyond my job, like banning, jailing, and banning.

Exactly! If there were managers or administrators available, there would be no need for you to waste time banning/jailing/banning players. There is no need for you to be scripting "admin". There's no reason for you to have rights to ban, jail, hire, fire, and such. You would focus instead on scripting, and making sure quality standards are followed. It's up to the manager to deal with how things should happen, but the chief could decide how it will be scripted.

Also, if a player has questions that were answered in the tutorial that he or she didn't do then its their own stupid fault.

Yes, but they can still be helped. There are also questions which won't be answered in a tutorial.

I also put my NPC Admin tag on when I'm working so people know who to come to if there are bugs and stuff.

Do you ever receive PMs from people asking you for things that waste your time?

I suppose I could script a support ticket system sometime in the future, that could be used for bug reporting and other things.

Or use one from the code gallery. I've found these systems to work well, when players know that it exists, and use it.

I wish Stefan would release external scripted windows so I could integrate jail system into RC.

I agree.

[Nataxo]

Originally Posted by Inverness

I said that twice on purpose, if that's what you're pointing out. Extra emphasis on the banning.

Oh=P

[Inverness]

Originally Posted by cbk1994

Exactly! If there were managers or administrators available, there would be no need for you to waste time banning/jailing/banning players.

I happen to like doing that.

Originally Posted by cbk1994

There is no need for you to be scripting "admin".

Says you. I'm the most experienced and skilled scripted on Valikorlia and the only one who can properly evaluate someone to see if they deserve to be NAT on Val. I'm also the one who scripted the basic system and set the guidelines for others to utilize it and not go around it.

So yes I do need to be "scripting admin" so I can boss people around and harp on them when they do something they shouldn't be doing, and have the power to back up related threats.

Originally Posted by cbk1994

There's no reason for you to have rights to ban, jail, hire, fire, and such. You would focus instead on scripting, and making sure quality standards are followed.

Don't tell me what I should and should not do. I do focus on scripting, however I also do other things when people need it. If some dude is doing vulgar stuff or hacking or whatever and I'm sitting there watching him, I'm not going to sit around and wait for some random PR guy to deal with it, I'm going to ban him into next month.

If people are trustworthy, then limiting rights is simply an annoyance. I don't have enough fingers to count how many on Val have change rights and such.

Originally Posted by cbk1994

Yes, but they can still be helped. There are also questions which won't be answered in a tutorial.

If someone asked me a question covered in the tutorial I'll either ignore them or not so subtly insult them for not doing the tutorial.

Originally Posted by cbk1994

Do you ever receive PMs from people asking you for things that waste your time?

Yea? So what? It's not that big of a problem.

Originally Posted by cbk1994

Or use one from the code gallery. I've found these systems to work well, when players know that it exists, and use it.

Pfft, Code Gallery stuff isn't up to my standards.

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by Inverness

I happen to like doing that.

Says you. I'm the most experienced and skilled scripted on Valikorlia and the only one who can properly evaluate someone to see if they deserve to be NAT on Val. I'm also the one who scripted the basic system and set the guidelines for others to utilize it and not go around it.

So yes I do need to be "scripting admin" so I can boss people around and harp on them when they do something they shouldn't be doing, and have the power to back up related threats.

My system accounts for that. Did you read the section about chiefs? They make sure that others are doing quality work (this could also be expanded to doing things the way they should be done to fit with the server). They could make reports to the manager on how things are going, and what changes need to be made. This way there is a second opinion (e.g. Bob stole my cookie, I'll fire him for some little error he made as payback, the manager could say "no that's crazy").

This may not apply directly to you, but I designed the system to work in as many situations as possible.

Don't tell me what I should and should not do. I do focus on scripting, however I also do other things when people need it. If some dude is doing vulgar stuff or hacking or whatever and I'm sitting there watching him, I'm not going to sit around and wait for some random PR guy to deal with it, I'm going to ban him into next month

Perhaps it would be a good idea for chiefs or some other trustworthy individuals to be able to ban when an administrator can't be reached.

If people are trustworthy, then limiting rights is simply an annoyance. I don't have enough fingers to count how many on Val have change rights and such.

I mainly mean not giving useless rights. A graphics maker doesn't need to warp or have god mode. I don't mean give rights to individual scripts needed for trustworthy people (like you). Removing rights from you such as level rights would damage the amount of work you are able to do.

If someone asked me a question covered in the tutorial I'll either ignore them or not so subtly insult them for not doing the tutorial.

Player relations staff would be able to cover these people, so you don't have to waste time insulting people. Though, I'm sure it's more of a sport than wasted time to you

Yea? So what? It's not that big of a problem.

Not really, but it can frustrate players when people don't answer their questions, and staff can also sometimes get frustrated to the point where they don't read any PMs.

Pfft, Code Gallery stuff isn't up to my standards.

Can't argue there.

[dNeonb]

Originally Posted by Inverness

I think all staff should have RC, builds community. Why don't you want non-development staff having RC? Segregation went out a long time ago.

Is there a need for staffs to have RC in order to do their job?
Yes, there is -> Good, give them RC access.
No, there isn't -> Don't give them RC ... Why? ... It works a week or two but then they start to idle on RC day and night, the players pm then and never get an answer -> people get sick and leave the server


About "Chiefs", "Captains" etc.. it is ok to have a teamleader for each development section. If you have a big team with maybe 10 people it's also ok to hire some secound team leader. But it really gets stupid if you start to create positions like "Chief's Asst.", "Co-Chief", "Captain", "Captain's Asst.", "Co-Captain" and just have 2 team members. There is absolutly no need for that and things only get worse. What I say now happened lots of time to me back when I started developing for servers... You ask the first one above you to do something and he agrees, the one above him says no and so on after days passed the teamleader finally says no and you get frustrated because all you work was useless.
The same basically goes for such crazy creations like "Account Manager", "Head Uploader", "Serverconfigurator" etc. These "jobs" are not needed because that's the managers work. But lots of people have friends and want to give them RC with all rights they will never need because they do nothing instead of slowing the development process down.

Yes, sure you did rent the server and if you want to have people with such weird job fine - but then you shouldn't complain if your server doesn't start growing.
Later on if you have a huge server, and I'm talking about a playercount like back in Classic Graal times you might need more people to deal with things and then it's also ok to to have a FAQ Chief, FAQ Captain and also a Co-FAQ Chief and a Co-FAQ Captain but not while your server is in development..

But whatever - such things will always happen, there is no way to stop it and somehow that's fine. Means we got at least something interesting to talk about

[Inverness]

Originally Posted by dNeonb

Is there a need for staffs to have RC in order to do their job?
Yes, there is -> Good, give them RC access.
No, there isn't -> Don't give them RC ... Why? ... It works a week or two but then they start to idle on RC day and night, the players pm then and never get an answer -> people get sick and leave the server

You make it sound as if they can't simply be instructed not to idle and be punished with loss of RC if they do.

Originally Posted by dNeonb

About "Chiefs", "Captains" etc.. it is ok to have a teamleader for each development section. If you have a big team with maybe 10 people it's also ok to hire some secound team leader. But it really gets stupid if you start to create positions like "Chief's Asst.", "Co-Chief", "Captain", "Captain's Asst.", "Co-Captain" and just have 2 team members. There is absolutly no need for that and things only get worse.

I agree. I don't think an LAT Captain is needed when you have 4 other LAT's not including the Chief. And I don't think a Co-Manager is needed when you have 3 Admins. Its like an excuse to give someone more rights.

[LoneAngelIbesu]

Originally Posted by cbk1994

There is no need for you to be scripting "admin". There's no reason for you to have rights to ban, jail, hire, fire, and such.

You obviously do not know how Valikorlia works. Rights come with seniority, and how important you are. I've been working on Valikorlia since mid-2007. I have every right there is to have, sans banning (I'm not the banning type, anyways ). A lot of this is left over from my time as LAT Chief. However, I agreed to step down and now I essentially do whatever I feel like doing; lately, it's been scripting. I like how we run things on Valikorlia. We're a close-knit community, and we're really not strict when it comes to staff positions and rights. Generally, we don't remove rights just because a person doesn't need them.

For the most part, Valikorlia has been pretty successful, when it comes to its staff. We've had long-running, active staff members (some have been around for nearly 10 years, back when Kharlia was a part of the original client world). We usually get along, and we usually get things done.

Valikorlia also has FAQ staff. They are useless. Once in a blue moon, they're asked questions. When they are, they repeat the question on RC, because they either can't do anything about it (jailing, etc), or it's related to development. I went on UN to report somebody harassing me over global PMs through that server. I had to contact a PR person, because no GPs were on tag. They directed me to a GP. I could've skipped the middle man and saved time.

Also, tutorials are usually the first thing you do on a server, and you rarely have a choice in the matter. Personally, I find that a good idea. We should probably do that with Valikorlia.

But, you know. It's your server, so it's your choice. Not everybody wants to be friends with their staff, or even trusts them. On Valikorlia, we tend to. Of course, every once in a while, somebody will delete the server. But, that's a small price to pay for tradition.

Originally Posted by cbk1994

My system accounts for that. Did you read the section about chiefs?

But, you don't reward them. You push them in to some communistic ideal that they are their co-worker's equal. What's the point of spending your time making level, graphics, or scripts, and not homework, if you are never rewarded? Good-will to make the server a better place doesn't go that far.

[Inverness]

Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu

Generally, we don't remove rights just because a person doesn't need them.

Zeta's removing of RP Admin weapons from people comes to mind, and his subsequent chewing-out.

Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu

But, you don't reward them. You push them in to some communistic ideal that they are their co-worker's equal. What's the point of spending your time making level, graphics, or scripts, and not homework, if you are never rewarded? Good-will to make the server a better place doesn't go that far.

I'm certainly not my co-worker's equal, I think I make that clear on regular basis

I'm also a lazy slob.

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu

You obviously do not know how Valikorlia works. Rights come with seniority, and how important you are. I've been working on Valikorlia since mid-2007. I have every right there is to have, sans banning (I'm not the banning type, anyways ).

I understand exactly what it's like. I've been working on Sands of Glory/Syn/Vesporia/Seilius for like two-three years. I'm trusted with everything, and I am great friends with the owner. This system is made to cover a wide spectrum of servers. It may not be best for Valikorlia.

You bring up a good point though; this system could use some work to add a community aspect, or other things based on trust.

Valikorlia also has FAQ staff. They are useless. Once in a blue moon, they're asked questions. When they are, they repeat the question on RC, because they either can't do anything about it (jailing, etc), or it's related to development. I went on UN to report somebody harassing me over global PMs through that server. I had to contact a PR person, because no GPs were on tag. They directed me to a GP. I could've skipped the middle man and saved time.

This is the fault of bad player relation staff, not the system I propose.

Also, tutorials are usually the first thing you do on a server, and you rarely have a choice in the matter. Personally, I find that a good idea. We should probably do that with Valikorlia.

I agree.

You bring up some very good points that I didn't think of.

[dNeonb]

Originally Posted by Inverness

You make it sound as if they can't simply be instructed not to idle and be punished with loss of RC if they do.

Yea, because I never saw it working

[Crow]

Originally Posted by Darlene159

I agree. the biggest problem that I have found is that a lot of NATs, LATs, and GATs do not want to be bothered with questions, and a lot of people feel that those staff members shouldnt have to answer players.

Originally Posted by Darlene159

That would be fine if you had PR staff that could answer questions in scripting, gfx, and levels. I get "I dont script", "I dont do graphics", or "I dont make levels". Seems it would be hard to have staff that can answer questions in every area
I quit asking questions because either staff dont answer or are rude when they do (a lot of the time, not all)

I'm not a NAT to answer questions. That's not my job..

[Frankie]

I think all staff regardless of position should at least put some sort of effort in helping players with issues even if it's not their job to do so.

[xXziroXx]

Originally Posted by Frankie

I think all staff regardless of position should at least put some sort of effort in helping players with issues even if it's not their job to do so.

I agree.

[dNeonb]

Originally Posted by xXziroXx

I agree.

Me, too.

Even NATs and LATs sure can answer questions, too. They are the people who create the server and should know about it best, better then the Support staff. So what should be wrong about answering a question - nothing.

[Inverness]

Originally Posted by dNeonb

Yea, because I never saw it working

So if it doesn't work then remove their RC. I'd still give them the initial chance of having RC if they don't idle all the time.

[Chompy]

Originally Posted by Inverness

So if it doesn't work then remove their RC. I'd still give them the initial chance of having RC if they don't idle all the time.

Lol, I hate/like servers who have idle checkers.. (D/C with the reason: Are you there?)

[dNeonb]

Originally Posted by Inverness

So if it doesn't work then remove their RC. I'd still give them the initial chance of having RC if they don't idle all the time.

With never working I also mean that the responsible people never remove they RC even if their staff idle on RC. Not only blaming the idlers here, also the others who would be supposed to do something against it.
Because if one FAQ has RC and the other hasn't they start to fight and you age bugged again and again until you say ok to giving their RC back.
Be strict from the beginning on and you will have less problems.

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by Frankie

I think all staff regardless of position should at least put some sort of effort in helping players with issues even if it's not their job to do so.

I agree also.

Originally Posted by dNeonb

Be strict from the beginning on and you will have less problems.

Except it is hard to find staff. I do agree fully with you though.
I couldn't Manage any other way, and didn't have staff, thus why I am not Manager any more.

[Inverness]

Originally Posted by dNeonb

With never working I also mean that the responsible people never remove they RC even if their staff idle on RC. Not only blaming the idlers here, also the others who would be supposed to do something against it.
Because if one FAQ has RC and the other hasn't they start to fight and you age bugged again and again until you say ok to giving their RC back.
Be strict from the beginning on and you will have less problems.

I have no problems being strict. Which is why I would still do what I suggested if I was the one running the show. And if someone wants to whine to me about getting their RC back I'll just tell them to go get RC on some other server because he or she has just been fired for being a whiny idiot.

[dNeonb]

Originally Posted by Inverness

And if someone wants to whine to me about getting their RC back I'll just tell them to go get RC on some other server because he or she has just been fired for being a whiny idiot.

Then you are maybe one out of many. I'd do it, too. But just have a look around, on most of the server you will not see that.

[Inverness]

Originally Posted by dNeonb

But just have a look around, on most of the server you will not see that.

Sounds like we need the PWA to evaluate people to see if they're up to the job of managing a classic server.

[Crono]

I dislike the fact that scripters no longer have their own "NAT" position which is an equal to GAT or LAT. They are now "Developers" or "Scripters" or something silly where they're pretty much free to do whatever they want (UN being a prime and significant example) as eveyrone is desperate for "good" "NATs".

[xXziroXx]

I've always used the tags:

Graphics
Levels
Scripting
Animations
Audio

[DuBsTeRmAn]

Back to a old Post from someone.

Promotion players fast for doing alot of work is bad. They actually keep working for a promotion. And when they get it they work less.. And less, And thats how they stop working.

[Crow]

Why promotions? You only need promotions from x to Admin and from Admin to Manager, everything else is basically useless. Just give them more rights when they really need them to do their work ;o