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  #1  
Old 08-30-2007, 04:50 AM
Rufus Rufus is offline
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Appalled.

There's nothing quite like seeing something you once adored slowly dying. It's a feeling that quite a lot of the Graal players are familiar with, but more so the Classic players. Over the last three years, promise after promise has developed nothing but disappointment. We've had developer after developer claiming he's the best thing since sliced bread; focusing on rewriting the lasts work, yet nothing being published. Of course, unless you've just joined Graal you'd probably know this.

There is a double bitterness to these let-downs. They just taint the server that it was, and they taint the server to what it could be - it's always just the same grand claims, the same enthusiastic ambitions, or more so arrogance. All it comes down to is every new development administrator in the hot seat has a somewhat gigantic ego, concerned only for their image and because of that, replacing everything that is already existing. Tyhm was respected, because all he did was log onto RC, upload some work, and log off. Why stay for the ego or the popularity? It's clear he loved to develop. It's perhaps part of the slight ennui that seems to cloud the new generation of staff on Classic: they may talk the talk, but they're banging the same old drums. Something needs to change.

Today I was reminded of old concerns; What if the latest "revolution" to Classic fails on delivering? How are we going to stand with the other servers progressing in the way they are? Well, apparently we are not. Today the Classic players got a sneak preview of the development which has been kept secret, and you'll see why. Here is a preview of -apparently- the brand spanking new level14, one of the most popular spots on Classic.



To be honest, I was pretty shocked when I seen that level. After viewing threads such as this on the forums and the revival of Atlantis, then seeing this, the Classic "revolution" looked more like a piece of trash. Then I came across a YouTube video with the rest of the 'new content' on it, and it just gets worse. But while it's clear how much has changed, and that much more will inevitably change, what's harder to gauge is how even more unsuccessful Classic is going to be after these changes. Whatever your opinion of Classic, or the staff members, there is no denying that this content is genuinely poor, and more so a downgrade then we've ever had.

I've supported Classic more then any server around, but we're getting screwed over by these egotistical people, yet it's being ignored? We need an administrator on Classic who is in touch with what the players want; not telling them what they want, what they will like, and what they will play. Most of all, not trying to be that best thing since sliced bread. Leave what is liked alone and add onto it, whether you can claim glory for it or not. Server development is not about ego trips or glory, it's about working for a better server for the players. The players are currently ignored, because apparently we don't know what we want, but we will like this new content, and if we don't it's okay because it will bring in fresh players. What a joke, no it will not at all. This is a game people pay for, and I certainly will not pay to play Hell Raven Land.

The PWA can't touch the server, and Graal Administration seems to ignore it. The server could do much much better, but with the current pompous idiot, it may as well be removed. Hopefully someone will read this and get the picture. Bell quit today, that most certainly shows that we're on our last leg.
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Seriously, you have ****-all for content and you're not exactly pulling in new developer talent, angling for prestigious titles should be your last concern.
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  #2  
Old 08-30-2007, 05:41 AM
DustyPorViva DustyPorViva is offline
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The only reason to keep classic is for nostalgic reasons. If that fails to deliver, then classic shows itself as being the out-dated server it is. The only reason most people appeal to it is because it was the only server they could play(of course there was N-pulse and a few others, but they poofed) when Graal first came out, and they grew up with it.
I'd personally love to take the classic of the past and only rescript it for GS2. Instead of changing Classic, they should have just fixed it and added stuff that carried on the Classic traits. I usually don't take on full projects, but if I was given a chance, bringing back classic would be one of the very, very few projects I'd accept.
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  #3  
Old 08-30-2007, 11:16 AM
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eeeewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww
wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

How can you take something so old, on a playerworld that's named "CLASSIC" for gods sake and turn it into an aborted child of Unholy Nation?
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  #4  
Old 08-30-2007, 06:44 PM
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Most people would agree that the current state of Classic isn't working and things need to be done to change this situation. The leaked content you've seen in the last few days is neither finished, nor even guaranteed to be the future of Classic (it is one possibility from a number of potential options). I can assure you that if any such change is made, a full backup will be kept allowing the content to be reverted if things don't work out as planned.

DustyPorViva's comments that Classic may be outdated are entirely true, and that's the thinking/reasoning behind the new content. Theres no guarantee such a change will work, but it might be worth a try. The idea that we could simply convert the pre-NPC Server content and work off that isn't a realistic option. Classic was losing players before the switch to NPC Server was made, and even if that wasn't the case, such a conversion would likely take years to achieve, and reaching a perfect conversion is not possible due to security changes imposed by the NPC Server.

When I originally launched the NPC Server, I converted only a small region of old Classic, with the intention being to add new content with a Clasic feel outside this area. Unfortunately, ciscumstances meant that parts of it were rushed, and this has had a domino effect on development for some time. I also feel that some of the content added was not in the Classic style, and this has frustrated many players. My personal view is that this approach should be restarted (on a development server), but with the time taken to ensure that updates are done properly and keep the adventure feel that makes Classic so memorable. In some ways I would want to make the server hidden in order to achieve that, but that would ultimately damage the playercount beyond repair.

People have been very quick to criticise things when it comes to Classic, but very few people make suggestions of what should be done instead. All that I've ever tried to do is please the players, but it's clear that drastic changes are need. I've always been open to suggestions, and I don't ignore anyone who has constructive comments to make: I just wish that more people would give a useful input. At the end of the day, pure negativity isn't going to help improve things.

Things need to change/improve, and it needs to happen soon. All I ask is that you help me to help you.
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  #5  
Old 08-30-2007, 07:23 PM
Twinny Twinny is offline
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I've said this to a few people: split classic up. Upload a backup of classic from like 99, convert it ONLY so it works with NPC-Server and leave it. The current dev team could go on to make the new adventure server or similar. Updating everything with shiny gimmicks is a contradiction on the concept of 'Classic'.
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  #6  
Old 08-30-2007, 08:44 PM
Crono Crono is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polo View Post
People have been very quick to criticise things when it comes to Classic, but very few people make suggestions of what should be done instead.
That's why we're players and you're staff. Classic lacks content, THINGS TO DO. Not levels, which are things you just look at and walk around in and eventually get bored of.

Quote:
All that I've ever tried to do is please the players, but it's clear that drastic changes are need. I've always been open to suggestions, and I don't ignore anyone who has constructive comments to make: I just wish that more people would give a useful input. At the end of the day, pure negativity isn't going to help improve things.
Tell Stefan that serverside hit detection sucks. I've heard a lot of people on UN who say classic would be perfect for sparring if only it had clientside detection.

Quote:
Things need to change/improve, and it needs to happen soon. All I ask is that you help me to help you.
Atleast you acknowledge it. <3
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  #7  
Old 08-30-2007, 09:04 PM
DustyPorViva DustyPorViva is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Polo View Post
DustyPorViva's comments that Classic may be outdated are entirely true, and that's the thinking/reasoning behind the new content. Theres no guarantee such a change will work, but it might be worth a try. The idea that we could simply convert the pre-NPC Server content and work off that isn't a realistic option. Classic was losing players before the switch to NPC Server was made, and even if that wasn't the case, such a conversion would likely take years to achieve, and reaching a perfect conversion is not possible due to security changes imposed by the NPC Server.
You missed the point of my comment. That the only reason to keep it alive is for nostalgic reasons. To redo it completely denies the reason the server should be up. If it's not going to be classic, then forget it.
Classic's main loss of players was the switch to P2P. Then after that it was forgotten about, so it lost more players. Then it was updates again, but that's when classic started undergoing huge chances. Then there was the NPC server, and then even more changes. In the end, ever since P2P, no one has ever gotten a chance to just play Classic the way it used to be. You can't say we don't give ways on how to change things, we constantly say here to keep Classic the way it was, and it's ignored.
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  #8  
Old 08-31-2007, 05:31 AM
PrinceOfKenshin PrinceOfKenshin is offline
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I have said it before i will help dev on classic.I hate to see something i grew up with die.
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  #9  
Old 08-31-2007, 06:41 AM
zokemon zokemon is offline
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Clientside hit detection is very very easy to script and you don't need to tell Stefan about it... It's just very insecure. I'm sure you remember the days back then where Graal "trainers" were all over the web like free candy? With clientside hit detection, it would be insanely easy for a "hacker" to give him self god-mode.

Also, I've been trying to help out on classic but every time I pose my interest to Storm (Polo), he always tells me to talk to Hell Raven whom has a love for ignoring me and I'm sure has no want for my help what so ever.
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Old 08-31-2007, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zokemon View Post
Also, I've been trying to help out on classic but every time I pose my interest to Storm (Polo), he always tells me to talk to Hell Raven whom has a love for ignoring me and I'm sure has no want for my help what so ever.
Wow, that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
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  #11  
Old 08-31-2007, 10:04 AM
DustyPorViva DustyPorViva is offline
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Oh ya, here's a suggestion:
Throwing a million push/pull blocks in room is not fun. I'd say if you ever want push/pull blocks to be challenging without putting a million in a room(and the only thing that challenges is your patience), is to adopt the push/pull blocks from Zelda, and only allow one push/pull. I know it's not exactly "Graal Classic" but I think it'd be one of those changes that are actually for the better. Zelda's block puzzles could sometimes stomp for a good few minutes, and only consisted of a few strategically placed blocks.
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  #12  
Old 08-31-2007, 12:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DustyPorViva View Post
Oh ya, here's a suggestion:
Throwing a million push/pull blocks in room is not fun. I'd say if you ever want push/pull blocks to be challenging without putting a million in a room(and the only thing that challenges is your patience), is to adopt the push/pull blocks from Zelda, and only allow one push/pull. I know it's not exactly "Graal Classic" but I think it'd be one of those changes that are actually for the better. Zelda's block puzzles could sometimes stomp for a good few minutes, and only consisted of a few strategically placed blocks.
I so agree..
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  #13  
Old 08-31-2007, 01:50 PM
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Clientside hit detection is very very easy to script and you don't need to tell Stefan about it... It's just very insecure.
Yeah he does, because when I asked MS about it on Classic, he said that Stefan told him he has to do serverside or something. Insecure? Probably. Worth it? Totally.
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Old 09-01-2007, 03:17 AM
Horrified Horrified is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerami View Post
Yeah he does, because when I asked MS about it on Classic, he said that Stefan told him he has to do serverside or something. Insecure? Probably. Worth it? Totally.
Doing things serverside is very secure, actually ;o
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  #15  
Old 09-01-2007, 03:25 AM
Crono Crono is offline
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Doing things serverside is very secure, actually ;o
Yeah, because hackers are just so abundant these days. I mean they seriously cause so many problems on Graal at the moment that GP's are always tied up.
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Old 09-01-2007, 06:33 PM
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Your sarcasm confuses me crono..
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Old 09-01-2007, 08:00 PM
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Your sarcasm confuses me crono..
There aren't really many hackers on Graal, I haven't seen any ingame problems since the whole Kuji thing, and GP's don't do anything these days.

Seriously it's the easiest position to have. You don't do anything, and when something does happen you just ask what it was and whether they have proof. A little slap on the wrist and you're back to chilling on RC, as people pretend to be your friend and every "girl" seems to suddenly know you.
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Old 09-01-2007, 08:08 PM
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As long as abusable systems like 'Bounty System' aren't released, it is a cushy job. Depends how strict you are on racism/harassment though.
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Old 09-01-2007, 10:44 PM
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I really think we need more "Classic is going nowhere", "Classic is going in the wrong direction", and "Classic is dying/dead" topics.

This is a new and controversial topic which has never been discussed or talked about before, and I really feel as if people uselessly rambling on about the situation without offering any real solutions or help will bring classic back to life quickly.
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Old 09-04-2007, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerami View Post
There aren't really many hackers on Graal, I haven't seen any ingame problems since the whole Kuji thing, and GP's don't do anything these days.

Seriously it's the easiest position to have. You don't do anything, and when something does happen you just ask what it was and whether they have proof. A little slap on the wrist and you're back to chilling on RC, as people pretend to be your friend and every "girl" seems to suddenly know you.

LOL well put crono.. He just exposed UN GP's haha.
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Old 09-04-2007, 09:09 PM
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMCbJWOMhiA

LOL THATS NOT CLASSIC FOOLS!
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Old 09-04-2007, 10:01 PM
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Quote:
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMCbJWOMhiA

LOL THATS NOT CLASSIC FOOLS!
It has the same level14 as Rufus showed :o
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Old 09-04-2007, 10:14 PM
WanDaMan WanDaMan is offline
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Oh yeah.... I guess it is then!
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Old 09-04-2007, 10:41 PM
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Quote:
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It has the same level14 as Rufus showed :o
Technically, it is Classic but it's not Classic It has the same layout as Classic, but gone is any nostalgia that it gives.
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  #25  
Old 09-04-2007, 10:47 PM
DutchGuy DutchGuy is offline
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DutchGuy has a little shameless behaviour in the past
classics desperacy has come to a new chapter.
the hiring of ex gcs(kill) who was kicked for messing with gc tickets, and claiming to be mc gunner.
and in my eyes a few new people who were again picked out of popularity, instead of input
its a shame to see classic is not developing in anyway.
no good levels, but no good recruiting either
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Old 09-04-2007, 10:48 PM
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Technically, it is Classic but it's not Classic It has the same layout as Classic, but gone is any nostalgia that it gives.
Classic lost it's classic status long time ago by the way.
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Old 09-04-2007, 11:05 PM
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Technically, it is Classic but it's not Classic It has the same layout as Classic, but gone is any nostalgia that it gives.
So go find some Classic players to play with on other servers?
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Old 09-05-2007, 12:59 AM
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So go find some Classic players to play with on other servers?
Classic was never about the players for me. It was the fun quests. The classic style levels still held that feeling of nostalgia whenever I felt like logging on and PKing, out of boredom. If they change the levels, there would be no reason for me to log on Classic since the similar layout just won't provide that nostalgia.
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Old 09-05-2007, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by zokemon View Post
Also, I've been trying to help out on classic but every time I pose my interest to Storm (Polo), he always tells me to talk to Hell Raven whom has a love for ignoring me and I'm sure has no want for my help what so ever.
you have never asked me about classic.
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Old 09-05-2007, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Codein View Post
Classic was never about the players for me. It was the fun quests. The classic style levels still held that feeling of nostalgia whenever I felt like logging on and PKing, out of boredom. If they change the levels, there would be no reason for me to log on Classic since the similar layout just won't provide that nostalgia.
I loved Classic in the beginning. I am the type of person that gets tired of looking/doing the same things everyday, so when they started doing the whole hera (sp?) thing, I really enjoyed it.
I never dwell on the change in community, because there is nothing you can do about it. People move on, stop playing, move to other servers, start their own servers, etc...
Change is good once in awhile. You not only have to concentrate on current members, but new members as well, and new members are not going to know what Classic was, but what Classic is...

I would just like to see the old Classic, but updated to look nicer, and have better quests, as well as the older quests, and would love to see the hera thing continued. I still think the npc's of the past/present are great.

There are many things I miss about old Classic, at the time when I first started playing, but it mostly involved community, which is long gone. The sooner people realize that you cannot bring that back, and accept change, the better off everyone will be. There are sooooo many things that can be done with GS2, and Classic staff would be dumb not to make use of it.

My 2 cents, for what it's worth....

<Edit>
Although, I said change is good...I have to admit that I do not like that level that Rufus posted. Just my opinion.
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  #31  
Old 09-06-2007, 04:50 PM
zokemon zokemon is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kristi View Post
you have never asked me about classic.
How would you know if you ignored my PMs?
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  #32  
Old 09-07-2007, 01:27 AM
Horrified Horrified is offline
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How would you know if you ignored my PMs?

*nudge*

tell him now

tell him now zero
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  #33  
Old 09-07-2007, 08:36 AM
Kristi Kristi is offline
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How would you know if you ignored my PMs?
Not replying doesn't mean I do not read through my pm's. Duh
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  #34  
Old 09-07-2007, 03:52 PM
Tom Tom is offline
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I really hope the "new classic" is'nt released, that will destory Classic.

And maybe the server should be name changed to "Graal Adventures", gives the staff a little le-way to work on stuff. As its not really classic anymore.

But still, the new one is horrible, sorry
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  #35  
Old 09-07-2007, 10:28 PM
Thrashsoul3 Thrashsoul3 is offline
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Dear god, it has nothing to do with we like remembering classic. Classic's quests kept me on Graal for hours on end, they were fun, long, and extremely creative. The Desert Temple quest alone is more fun and creative then half of the current graal servers. Hopefully someone around here understands the significance behind class.
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  #36  
Old 09-08-2007, 12:58 PM
DutchGuy DutchGuy is offline
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mister thrashsoul3... it will be hard to find someone creative enough to rebuid something that is being destroyed over and over again.
even now with hell ravens team.
theres no progress.
just tag loving admin creeps.
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  #37  
Old 09-08-2007, 01:07 PM
DustyPorViva DustyPorViva is offline
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> I've always wanted to bring Classic back, but apparently you're not allowed to try it yourself(no permission to use classic levels).
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  #38  
Old 09-08-2007, 07:18 PM
Codein Codein is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DustyPorViva View Post
> I've always wanted to bring Classic back, but apparently you're not allowed to try it yourself(no permission to use classic levels).
How did Konidias go about getting permission for Graal2001 levels? You could use the same method, I suppose.
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  #39  
Old 09-08-2007, 07:47 PM
Thrashsoul3 Thrashsoul3 is offline
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How did Konidias go about getting permission for Graal2001 levels? You could use the same method, I suppose.
He was a major developer on Graal2001 when it was originally created. Thats why he has permission do remake it.
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  #40  
Old 09-08-2007, 07:50 PM
Codein Codein is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thrashsoul3 View Post
He was a major developer on Graal2001 when it was originally created. Thats why he has permission do remake it.
oic.

Either way, Dusty should pressure PWA or who ever to remake? I don't know. I personally don't really care.
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