Forums, Wiki

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by Gerami

I'm on VIP and posting fine for now.

Because you already had the upgrade, and part of VIP is forum access I believe. No one got what they already had taken away. Your subscription just turned into the playerworld gold subscription I think.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by unixmad

We are giving free hosting and support to all classic playerworlds, so when people make interesting projects we are supporting them and we don't ask money.
.

The classic playerworlds support you, they are the reason why people play Graal and the reason why people upgraded to begin with. Graal can never rely on only Graal Kingdoms and Zone. I'm sure you know this but won't admit it...

No one got what they already had taken away.

Well, unixmad allowed Classic accounts to also post but changed his mind. But yeah...the forums are originally for gold/vip. I just find it sad that classic accounts get less credit than they deserve.

[Twinny]

Originally Posted by unixmad

We are asking 1.5USD/month to be part of the community use 100 computer that are hosting graal, get the graal client ported on most hardware software, server administration ... If you think this price is to much then it's better leaving right now.

You could probably make more than that in less that a month if you would at least try to add advertising to non-gold subscribers.

[unixmad]

Who said you have lifetime access to forums ?

We have sold some lifetime access to classic server, nothing more nothing else... and we are providing the service even if we are loosing money with it.

If no gold subscriber were paying for all the lifetime people playing then graal will be closed since years.

Originally Posted by cbkbud

Because the bread has always cost money. These forums have always cost money once, and then you had access for a while.

If when you bought your first bread, you were told you could pay $60 for lifetime bread, and you did it, you would get your bread every day for free. What if someone suddently told you, "Oh, you have to pay for bread again. No more lifetime bread for you!"
Also, why do you keep comparing Graal to bread? x.x

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by unixmad

it's better leaving right now.

Like I said, noone is going to pay for the Graal forums. I'm actually very close to leaving the forums right now.

With admins who do everything they can to get money (you made the trials use half a screen, for crying out loud!), I'm really almost ready to quit, and unless there is a Universal Mac version of Graal out by the time my VIP runs out, I'm GOING to quit.

[unixmad]

Before giving advice try one time in your life to get any money from advertising:

- Advertiser never accept Ads on forums
- You get close to nothing with ads, only very big site get some money all others work for free.

Originally Posted by Twinny

You could probably make more than that in less that a month if you would at least try to add advertising to non-gold subscribers.

[Crow]

Originally Posted by unixmad

then graal will be closed since years.

It will be anyways, like, soonish. I'm pretty damn sure about that.

Originally Posted by unixmad

Before giving advice try one time in your life to get any money from advertising:

- Advertiser never accept Ads on forums
- You get close to nothing with ads, only very big site get some money all others work for free.

To get back to those examples...Runescape makers are rich, aswell as the creators of Maple Story or Cabal Online. They are all free games, you can play for free, use the forums for free...

[unixmad]

You don't pay for graal forums you pay for graal services, including forums.

If you don't play graal then it's really not worst it staying here.

Originally Posted by cbkbud

Like I said, noone is going to pay for the Graal forums. I'm actually very close to leaving the forums right now.

With admins who do everything they can to get money (you made the trials use half a screen, for crying out loud!), I'm really almost ready to quit, and unless there is a Universal Mac version of Graal out by the time my VIP runs out, I'm GOING to quit.

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by cbkbud

Like I said, noone is going to pay for the Graal forums. I'm actually very close to leaving the forums right now.

With admins who do everything they can to get money (you made the trials use half a screen, for crying out loud!), I'm really almost ready to quit, and unless there is a Universal Mac version of Graal out by the time my VIP runs out, I'm GOING to quit.

How many programs (trial programs) have you seen that have something annoying with them, that is so annoying to people that they upgrade? I have seen many, and I have bought the programs because I liked them, but wanted to get rid of the annoying part, like pop-ups, something permanently fixed on graphics, etc....It's business.

[Crow]

Originally Posted by unixmad

If you don't play graal then it's really not worst it staying here.

Explain!
More forum users = bigger community -> more new players want to join. Dont you think so?

[unixmad]

Don't worry for us, i have always supported graal with my own money and will do in the future.

Originally Posted by Crow

It will be anyways, like, soonish. I'm pretty damn sure about that.



To get back to those examples...Runescape makers are rich, aswell as the creators of Maple Story or Cabal Online. They are all free games, you can play for free, use the forums for free...

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by Crow

To get back to those examples...Runescape makers are rich, aswell as the creators of Maple Story or Cabal Online. They are all free games, you can play for free, use the forums for free...

Well, duh...if they are rich, they can afford to host it for free!
Not everyone is rich.

[unixmad]

More forums users not playing Graal = More troubles

That's a formula i have verified lot of time.

Originally Posted by Crow

Explain!
More forum users = bigger community -> more new players want to join. Dont you think so?

[DustyPorViva]

Maybe classic servers should pay to keep themselves up. I mean... a lot of them barely have players, are inactive, dead and what not. As for servers on classic that do get in players, maybe they could get donations, or when players upgrade their account, have an option to put a little of it towards their favorite server.
Either way, I think what everyone is getting at is that the forums aren't really worth upgrading. It was just a place for some people who didn't really have interest in playing Graal, to still stick around, help, keep in touch. Hell, I'm sure some people would be happy if you kept the forums free for classic if you allow some sort of donation system. Even though some of us on the forums don't play Graal any more, doesn't mean we can't help others.
EDIT: A lot of forums use advertisements that aren't annoying. They simply just implant a post somewhere in the thread that can easily be skipped over if needed. I never minded it, and it seems to work for a lot of forums.

[Crow]

Originally Posted by Darlene159

Well, duh...if they are rich, they can afford to host it for free!
Not everyone is rich.

They actually became rich through their games. Neat additions you have to pay for, which dont make you the uber god though. Ads. I'm fine with this stuff.

Originally Posted by unixmad

More forums users not playing Graal = More troubles

That's a formula i have verified lot of time.

How so?

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by Crow

Explain!
More forum users = bigger community -> more new players want to join. Dont you think so?

Making people only to be able to post when upgraded= less trolls.

[kia345]

Originally Posted by Darlene159

How many programs (trial programs) have you seen that have something annoying with them, that is so annoying to people that they upgrade? I have seen many, and I have bought the programs because I liked them, but wanted to get rid of the annoying part, like pop-ups, something permanently fixed on graphics, etc....It's business.

Not many. Look at...Runescape. It's an ugly game, has a horrible community (from what I've seen) and people still play it. On both trial and paid accounts. And look how long it has been around without charging people for every little thing.

[Crow]

Originally Posted by Darlene159

Making people only to be able to post when upgraded= less trolls.

I can tell by this post you never administrated a forum.

[cbk1994]

Okay, this is going to be my last post on the subject.

I stand by what I said in my previous posts. I'm not turning away from that.

However, unixmad, Darlene, I'm sorry for getting so mad. I've stated my views, and you've rejected them.

I'm very upset about Graal for Mac, and I'm very upset about several other things that are happening to Graal v5.

So, I am sorry.

I am not going to post again on this topic.

Chris Zakuto

[Twinny]

Originally Posted by Darlene159

Making people only to be able to post when upgraded= less trolls.

Trolls? They can't exist here considering how easy it is to get your post/thread shot down here

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by kia345

Not many. Look at...Runescape. It's an ugly game, has a horrible community (from what I've seen) and people still play it. On both trial and paid accounts. And look how long it has been around without charging people for every little thing.

So what? So there are people that like to play free games even though they are horrible, what's your point?

[Twinny]

Originally Posted by kia345

Not many. Look at...Runescape. It's an ugly game, has a horrible community (from what I've seen) and people still play it. On both trial and paid accounts. And look how long it has been around without charging people for every little thing.

Plenty of games with alot less to offer can manage it.

Hundreds of servers used for graal? Don't exaggerate. We get told enough that multiple playerworlds are hosted on the same box. Also evident when some fool crashes his gserver which crashed every other gserver on the same box.

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by Crow

I can tell by this post you never administrated a forum.

Wrong...

Originally Posted by Twinny

Trolls? They can't exist here considering how easy it is to get your post/thread shot down here

Less trolls=less work for me= more time for me to play the game and enjoy it.

[kia345]

Originally Posted by Darlene159

So what? So there are people that like to play free games even though they are horrible, what's your point?

That the game has lasted so long without people paying for every little thing.

[Darlene159]

You guys can argue all you want, but the fact is that these forums are a part of Graal, and should be a part of the subscriptions, not free for everyone. If you want to be a part of the Graal community, all of it, then upgrade, if not, don't....I hate trolls, and I hate people who come on these forums only to belittle Graal because they can. Good riddence to those people, and hello to people who actually want to be a part of the graal community.

Originally Posted by kia345

That the game has lasted so long without people paying for every little thing.

Mute point, this isn't Runescape.

[unixmad]

To be acurate we have exactly 70 servers to host graal and graal services and 10 computer at office for development so a total of 80 computers.

We have also 3 dedicated Cisco 6500 routers to manage the network, a few firewall and lot of switch.

We have 6 Gigabit links ( 3 bandwidth provider with backup links).

Originally Posted by Twinny

Hundreds of servers used for graal? Don't exaggerate. We get told enough that multiple playerworlds are hosted on the same box. Also evident when some fool crashes his gserver which crashed every other gserver on the same box.

[Crow]

Originally Posted by Darlene159

You guys can argue all you want, but the fact is that these forums are a part of Graal, and should be a part of the subscriptions, not free for everyone. If you want to be a part of the Graal community, all of it, then upgrade, if not, don't....I hate trolls, and I hate people who come on these forums only to belittle Graal because they can. Good riddence to those people, and hello to people who actually want to be a part of the graal community.

I want to, but as I already stated, I wont pay to join a damn forum.
Yea, I guess I almost forgot that you are actually also administrating the Graal forums. But your logic is dumb

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by Darlene159

Wrong...

Less trolls=less work for me= more time for me to play the game and enjoy it.

If you really want more time to play the game, with all due respect, maybe stepping down is a solution. I'm not suggesting it, just saying if you'd rather have more time to play, don't blame trolls, you took on the responsibility.
A lot of people here do nothing else Graal related but browse the forums, so it wouldn't be out of their way.

Honestly though, the whole subscribed=less trolls is a terrible solution. It's like saying kick out everyone in school who has less than a "B" average will get rid of troublemakers... sure, but not sensible.
Maybe if the forums weren't so strict in terms of rules, you'd have more time to actually play :/

[kia345]

Originally Posted by Darlene159

You guys can argue all you want, but the fact is that these forums are a part of Graal, and should be a part of the subscriptions, not free for everyone. If you want to be a part of the Graal community, all of it, then upgrade, if not, don't....I hate trolls, and I hate people who come on these forums only to belittle Graal because they can. Good riddence to those people, and hello to people who actually want to be a part of the graal community.

You're right, classic accounts can in no way improve Graal in any way. They certainly can't hang out on the forums and do good deeds, they're all evil and do nothing but attempt to destroy Graal. Only Gold accounts are good. They are the Aryan of Graal.

[Twinny]

Originally Posted by unixmad

To be acurate we have exactly 70 servers to host graal and graal services and 10 computer at office for development so a total of 80 computers.

70 servers for 493 people.... Could very well be a black hole in the finances.

[unixmad]

Don't be stupid, we have very often 800 people at night not including hundred of people using other services like web server/forums/wiki ...

Originally Posted by Twinny

70 servers for 493 people.... Could very well be a black hole in the finances.

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by Crow

I want to, but as I already stated, I wont pay to join a damn forum.

Then don't. If you don't want the other stuff Graal has to offer, see ya.

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

If you really want more time to play the game, with all due respect, maybe stepping down is a solution. I'm not suggesting it, just saying if you'd rather have more time to play, don't blame trolls, you took on the responsibility.
A lot of people here do nothing else Graal related but browse the forums, so it wouldn't be out of their way.

Honestly though, the whole subscribed=less trolls is a terrible solution. It's like saying kick out everyone in school who has less than a "B" average will get rid of troublemakers... sure, but not sensible.
Maybe if the forums weren't so strict in terms of rules, you'd have more time to actually play :/

I happenh to enjoy my job, and really enjoy helping the community, and playing the game. I can do all of it. There is no need to allow trolls to post, and this will limit it quite a bit.

[Crow]

Originally Posted by unixmad

Don't be stupid, we have very often 800 people at night not including hundred of people using other services like web server/forums/wiki ...

No you dont. When you are actually releasing something new, you may have 800-900, but the average, even at night, is around 600.

[Twinny]

Originally Posted by unixmad

Don't be stupid, we have very often 800 people at night not including hundred of people using other services like web server/forums/wiki ...

While a place like Runescape which has only twice the servers can handle 198345 people during offpeak times.

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by Crow

I want to, but as I already stated, I wont pay to join a damn forum.

Then don't. If you don't want the other stuff Graal has to offer, see ya.

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

If you really want more time to play the game, with all due respect, maybe stepping down is a solution. I'm not suggesting it, just saying if you'd rather have more time to play, don't blame trolls, you took on the responsibility.
A lot of people here do nothing else Graal related but browse the forums, so it wouldn't be out of their way.

Honestly though, the whole subscribed=less trolls is a terrible solution. It's like saying kick out everyone in school who has less than a "B" average will get rid of troublemakers... sure, but not sensible.
Maybe if the forums weren't so strict in terms of rules, you'd have more time to actually play :/

I happen to enjoy my job, and really enjoy helping the community, and playing the game. I can do all of it. There is no need to allow trolls to post, and this will limit it quite a bit.

Originally Posted by kia345

You're right, classic accounts can in no way improve Graal in any way. They certainly can't hang out on the forums and do good deeds, they're all evil and do nothing but attempt to destroy Graal. Only Gold accounts are good. They are the Aryan of Graal.

I didn't say all classic accounts are trolls, but many people who do not play graal anymore do troll these forums, and offer nothing positive.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by Darlene159

I happenh to enjoy my job, and really enjoy helping the community, and playing the game. I can do all of it. There is no need to allow trolls to post, and this will limit it quite a bit.

As do a lot of other people here on the forums.
Also, as a solution for limiting trolls, it's a dumb one. Banning the almighty AOL IP would probably deal with a lot of problems too, but it doesn't mean it's a smart solution.
Don't forget, everyone here have paid for their account at a time, so it's not like these accounts are expendable like other forum accounts. Trolls should be dealt with by moderators, sure, it sucks, but it's the job. There is honestly not that much else to the job. For every troll you probably limit with this new change, you're probably losing 5 good members. Quite worth it?

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

As do a lot of other people here on the forums.

My account is upgraded

For every troll you probably limit with this new change, you're probably losing 5 good members. Quite worth it?

The good members can upgrade. It is really quite inexpensive.

[kia345]

Originally Posted by Darlene159

I didn't say all classic accounts are trolls, but many people who do not play graal anymore do troll these forums, and offer nothing positive.

Please show me the delinquents with classic accounts that have done something evil within a two weeks of this date.

On top of that, show me people with saintly Gold accounts who help our community daily.

Unless what you mean by 'positive' is 'paying customer' and trolling means 'I paid once but I live off food stamps and can't pay to enjoy this game more' then tell me that and I'll shut up right now.

[Sam]

Why do you people cannot realize that internet services are not free in general?

You are here on a forum for a p2p game. The forum and all other services are part of the game so it's self-evident you have to be a member to use it.
Maybe the bread thing is not the best, but look around and you find a lot other things, like a golf court.
To use it you have to be member or you must pay as guest.
It costs money to run services and that's fact.

I see you guys showing the community your cool cars, your iPods, iPhones, cell phones, you tell us about your drinks and your parties and your holidays and last not least your hypersuperdooper computers. Now tell me you get all this stuff for free.
Sorry, but you make me laugh.

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by kia345

Please show me the delinquents with classic accounts that have done something evil within a two weeks of this date.

On top of that, show me people with saintly Gold accounts who help our community daily.

I could show you plenty of trolling on these forums, but I wont.

If what you mean by 'positive' is 'paying customer' and trolling means 'I paid once but I live off food stamps and can't pay to enjoy this game more' then tell me that and I'll shut up right now.

Not even worth arguing with you if you don't know what positive, and trolling means.

Seriously, I have alot to do, and I really can't explain anything any more without repeated myself like I always have to do with some of you people. You can go back and re-read what I have said if you like, but I really don't have time to keep going over it. It's really simple.