Quests!

[konidias]

We have been drawing up dungeon maps and making quest levels since yesterday and I'm really excited about what we've got so far.

I don't want to go and post a lot of snapshots of the quest levels since I kind of want people to experience those for the first time when they play... But I attached a picture of the boss in one of the quests. (it hasn't been scripted or anything yet, I just put the image in there to get a feel for the size)

The dungeons will play out more like Zelda 3 dungeons... with all sorts of puzzles and challenges, dungeon map items so you can see the layout of a dungeon... challenging bosses... etc

I'm not sure exactly how many quests we'll finish by the time I want to release the server... but I'm estimating about 20.

If anyone has any interesting ideas or suggestions for quests just post about it here. (or if there's anything in particular you'd like to see in a quest or you expect to see)

[killerogue]

konidias I'm not kidding you when I say that is some hot stuff man. I can't wait to play. If I come up with some quest ideas in the next 10 mins (which I probably will) I'll PM a few of them to you. :]

[CheeToS2]

Looks nice!

I would enjoy a quest where you must fight a giant angry peac ock that is running after you.

[Darlene159]

Looks awesome. I can't wait to play this server.

[maximus_asinus]

Yay, finally a server that is getting back the Legends of Zelda feel.

[killerogue]

Originally Posted by CheeToS2

Looks nice!

I would enjoy a quest where you must fight a giant angry peac ock that is running after you.

Pea**** CheeToS? XD

[smirt362]

Well...just like the Zelda quests there should be items (ex: hook shot, boomerang, etc) that help you complete puzzles in the dungeon and for puzzles in the future dungeon, that also have some sort of offensive or defensive capability for the boss of the dungeon and for general use.

[Valder]

He reminds me a lot of the first pendant boss from A Link to the Past...

[CheeToS2]

Originally Posted by killerogue

Pea**** CheeToS? XD

Yes. Perhaps you can get a "peac ock hat" or something from it. Here is an artist's rendition of the beast:

[Crono]

Originally Posted by CheeToS2

Yes. Perhaps you can get a "peac ock hat" or something from it. Here is an artist's rendition of the beast:

def mocking my style :'[

hey koni, thats dead sexy

[zell12]

Every time you post something like this, I want to start playing. Please don't let us down Koni. I'll be sad.

[konidias]

Originally Posted by smirt362

Well...just like the Zelda quests there should be items (ex: hook shot, boomerang, etc) that help you complete puzzles in the dungeon and for puzzles in the future dungeon, that also have some sort of offensive or defensive capability for the boss of the dungeon and for general use.

Well the thing about having this game online... there is the issue of people giving you items before you even do the quest... Like if you need a "boomerang" or whatever item... and someone sells one to you prior to even doing the "boomering" quest, then you'll kind of be ahead of the game... though I guess it still wouldn't harm anything too much. It's definitely being used in our quests already though.

Originally Posted by Valder

He reminds me a lot of the first pendant boss from A Link to the Past...

LoL! I promise I didn't copy it or anything. I *have* been playing LTtP recently but I honestly wasn't drawing this boss from memory or looking at that one. I could post the pencil/paper sketch I did of the boss but it's hideous... lol. Besides, that boss looks puny.

-------

One issue I want to address with people (to get their opinion on), is the problem with having single player quests in a multiplayer environment. Obviously you can't have 30 people doing the same quest at the same time... it would be mayhem and people would be pking eachother and all that good stuff... So I was considering the following two options at the moment:

1. when a player enters a single player quest it copies the quest levels and creates temporary new ones so that the person can play on their own set of levels.

2. when a player enters a single player quest it locks out everyone else and gives that player a time limit to complete the quest. if the player dies or time runs out, they are ejected from the dungeon (or whatever) and cannot enter for x amount of time.

Now I know option 1 sounds more convenient for everyone... but it's hardly as realistic as option 2.... It would be weird to have 10 people doing the same quest yet not running into eachother... Plus I'm not even sure this method is completely possible without a lot of extra scripting.

Option 2 seems to be the way I want to go. Yes it will be lame having to wait to get into a quest... but the other people only get so much time. I think it will be more challenging to complete the quest before you run out of time as well. (of course I'll make sure that you can at least get through the quest at a reasonable speed before time runs out)

Option 2 also works easily for multiplayer quests. Since we will be having quests that require 2, 3, 4... or more players.

[maximus_asinus]

I don't see how you can even consider option two. I can see thirty different ways locking people out of a quest could be exploited. Option one is possible, I think, but it would be unneeded and messy.

I thought questing with friends was the best part of Graal. Working together to beat certain areas. It is pretty sad that you are trying to eliminate this aspect. These are the things that help build a community.

Now option three appears. Make single player quests but try to integrate a system where you can work together with people to finish quests, try to promote teamwork, not like Stefan's quest, more like a party system.

Alternate you could leave it alone. PKing is a natural part of online gameplay. Don't try to shield people from it, because it'll happen eventually.

[smirt362]

Originally Posted by konidias

Well the thing about having this game online... there is the issue of people giving you items before you even do the quest... Like if you need a "boomerang" or whatever item... and someone sells one to you prior to even doing the "boomering" quest, then you'll kind of be ahead of the game... though I guess it still wouldn't harm anything too much. It's definitely being used in our quests already though.

Simple solution. Make certain items un-tradeable .

[maximus_asinus]

Originally Posted by smirt362

Simple solution. Make certain items un-tradeable .

I'd enforce a untradeable clause on all items obtained in quests. What would happen if a newbie was cowed into trading away a vital item and wasn't able to continue questing?

[Rufus]

Koni I wish you were developing Classic.

[maximus_asinus]

Originally Posted by Rufus

Koni I wish you were developing Classic.

The way I see it, Koni is creating the new Classic (this is not an insult).

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by maximus_asinus

The way I see it, Koni is creating the new Classic (this is not an insult).

Hmm.

I think some people enjoy the Classic style, but without the economy on top of it. Although an economy gives more things to do, it's not really "Graal Classic" style, but I personally don't mind. I can only think of one quest that used to be on 2001 and it was quite different to those on Classic.

[jacob_bald6225]

Originally Posted by maximus_asinus

I'd enforce a untradeable clause on all items obtained in quests. What would happen if a newbie was cowed into trading away a vital item and wasn't able to continue questing?

He would have to buy a new one?

[DARKVILLIN]

Originally Posted by maximus_asinus

I don't see how you can even consider option two. I can see thirty different ways locking people out of a quest could be exploited. Option one is possible, I think, but it would be unneeded and messy.

We are confident of our systems . And players that exploit or hack on bomyislands will become banned or have fun breaking rocks for almost eternity.

Originally Posted by maximus_asinus

I thought questing with friends was the best part of Graal. Working together to beat certain areas. It is pretty sad that you are trying to eliminate this aspect. These are the things that help build a community.

We aren't trying to eliminate this aspect at all. I feel I can speak for Konidias on this feeling as we both feel the same that seeing other players push around invisible blocks or killing things you cant see makes it unrealistic and quite distractive while you are trying to complete your quest.

Originally Posted by maximus_asinus

Now option three appears. Make single player quests but try to integrate a system where you can work together with people to finish quests, try to promote teamwork, not like Stefan's quest, more like a party system.

We have ideas for multiplayer quests that will require extensive amounts of teamwork whether it be 2 players or up to 6 players. These ideas also range from logical to strategical team play to complete quests/temples/bosses.

Originally Posted by maximus_asinus

Alternate you could leave it alone. PKing is a natural part of online gameplay. Don't try to shield people from it, because it'll happen eventually.

I don't necesssarly think it was more PKing that was the issue. It was more the distractive factor and seeing players complete your puzzles for you kinda? I mean it kinda eliminates some of the fun factor out of it if there is a puzzle you are trying to solve then a player comes and does it right infront of you. Some of you might be like, "thats cool he just solved what i couldn't get by" But the rewards that you gain in the quests/temples will be worth your own figuring out we promise

[konidias]

Originally Posted by maximus_asinus

I don't see how you can even consider option two. I can see thirty different ways locking people out of a quest could be exploited. Option one is possible, I think, but it would be unneeded and messy.

I thought questing with friends was the best part of Graal. Working together to beat certain areas. It is pretty sad that you are trying to eliminate this aspect. These are the things that help build a community.

Now option three appears. Make single player quests but try to integrate a system where you can work together with people to finish quests, try to promote teamwork, not like Stefan's quest, more like a party system.

Alternate you could leave it alone. PKing is a natural part of online gameplay. Don't try to shield people from it, because it'll happen eventually.

I think you're misunderstanding.... There are just some quests that work better single player... ya know? There will be quests where you can quest with friends... like I mentioned... but I just think it would be pointless to do a single player designed quest with multiple people...

Things would be far too easy with like 5 people doing a single player quest... A boss would die in mere seconds... and you can't say "well make the boss harder" because then it becomes impossible for a single person to beat. I'm definitely NOT trying to eliminate teamwork but single player quests are called single player for a reason.

What are the 30 different ways that option 2 could be exploited? It's not as though you could lock people out of quests all day.. You can only do a quest once per so many hours or whatever... So once the time runs out for the account, you get kicked from the quest and cannot go back in for a while. Therefore you can't possibly like... tie up a quest all day long. Not to mention with the multitude of quests, you don't really have to all be huddled around one.

PKing is a "natural part of online gameplay". It's just rarely handled in games properly... That's like saying that murder in real life is a natural part of life and that we shouldn't try to prevent it... Some people PK simply because it's the most annoying thing you can do to a person in an online game. It's called "griefing". But I see no reason why people should fear having to be PKed while on a quest... it just wouldn't be a fun experience.

[DARKVILLIN]

you called us noobs ...stupid baddy...you love him more than us *sigh*

[Sage_Shadowbane]

Well Koni, I know for a fact that the first option you gave is possible, but yes it would require alot of extra scripting. (Btw I know its possible because it's been done on Zenkou for battles). But that only solves the single player questing, about multiplayer questing...how would you go about that? Will it be there are certain quests that require you to have a certain ammount of people before it can be started or before you can enter? And if so...would it not be easier to do a party system? You can create a party of lets say 5-6 people max...if you have the required ammount of people in your party you may than enter this quest? Well I dont know, just throwing some ideas/questions out there for ya..But you should really talk to PFA from Zenkou about how to go about getting the single player aspect done...who knows, he might even be interested in helping you create it.

[warp2ukew]

LOL i remember when you could unstick out of rock jail (EAT THAT 10,000 ROCKS).

Quest looks great, I can't wait to play.

[DARKVILLIN]

Originally Posted by warp2ukew

LOL i remember when you could unstick out of rock jail (EAT THAT 10,000 ROCKS).

Quest looks great, I can't wait to play.

not this time, you will be chained to a polarbear.

-havent run that idea through koni yet so it might not make it to the public server

[maximus_asinus]

Koni, did you just compare PKing to murder?

Anyways, if you dislike people PKing in quests, make the level a no PK zone. If you think having more people with you gives you an advantage over a boss, script the boss to get exponentially stronger depending on how many people are in the room. Can't see other people pushing/pulling blocks, rescript the blocks. All your excuses can be solved relatively easy, with less effort.

[konidias]

Originally Posted by maximus_asinus

Koni, did you just compare PKing to murder?

Anyways, if you dislike people PKing in quests, make the level a no PK zone. If you think having more people with you gives you an advantage over a boss, script the boss to get exponentially stronger depending on how many people are in the room. Can't see other people pushing/pulling blocks, rescript the blocks. All your excuses can be solved relatively easy, with less effort.

No, that would require more effort.

You make it sound so easy to "fix". But what exactly is the point of having multiple people in a single player quest? You just basically said the puzzles shoudl be clientside... so there isn't any point in having 5 people in the same room doing puzzles none of the others can see.

Yet you say they should all be able to fight the boss... So that makes no sense at all. They don't have any teamwork up until the boss and then they have to fight a boss together? What if you WANT to do the quest alone? You wait until 4 in the morning when there is less chance of anyone taking the quest?

What about if 5 guys go to fight a boss and 4 of them die almost immediately? Is the boss still going to have the strength to beat 5 players? No, we'd have to script even more stuff to make sure the boss is constantly checking the playercount in the room and readjusting... But wait... what if 2 more people enter the room when you've almost killed the boss? Does the boss suddenly gain more health... or do the two people who just walked in get to watch you defeat the boss in one blow and then claim the prize? In fact, what if anyone enters the boss room during a battle? Wouldn't they be sort of shocked to walk in to the boss room and see people fighting already?

You could solve all of this by locking people out of the boss room during a fight but then you can't have multiple people in the boss room...

See where I'm going with this? It's not as easy as you make it sound.

That's why there will be specifically designed multiplayer quests and specifically designed singleplayer quests. I don't see why that's such a bad thing.

[zell12]

I'm sure you can make a single player quest, just make 20 or so copies of it or something, and have a script that checks what level is open and it send the player in there? Maybe you know that already, I never read too much in this thread.

[Sage_Shadowbane]

I already told you guys it could be scripted...Talk to PFA, Im sure he can help you guys out. There would be no need to make a "copy" of the level if you can script it so that people can enter the same level, but dont see the other players, and the boss is their own to fight.

[zell12]

Well yeah, I believe GK does the same thing for those maps you dig up.

[Chandler]

Originally Posted by Sage_Shadowbane

I already told you guys it could be scripted...Talk to PFA, Im sure he can help you guys out. There would be no need to make a "copy" of the level if you can script it so that people can enter the same level, but dont see the other players, and the boss is their own to fight.

That's called clientside.

I'd suggest using copy/deleteLevel, but that's me.

[konidias]

I want to involve scripting things clientside at all costs... (well important things)

Memory editing still exists and even though Graal has slightly improved it's detection of such programs, people still use them and get away with it. Of course, it's always possible to edit tile information and edit graphics in your folder but setshapes and other checks can prevent those two things from even being worth doing.

[Torankusu]

No offense, but had you honestly played 'classic' back in the day you would have already found the solution to your problem.

[konidias]

Originally Posted by Torankusu

No offense, but had you honestly played 'classic' back in the day you would have already found the solution to your problem.

So you're saying I didn't play Classic "back in the day"? I was playing Classic long before hera quests existed.

The solution is *not* to have push/pull blocks clientsided. As I've already stated I don't want people moving invisible objects from other people's perspective.

Classic quests were garbage compared to what can be achieved now. All I remember from Classic quests are loads of baddies room after room, and a few block puzzles. No offense, but I think you have fond memories of Classic because of your newness to Graal at the time and the community that existed. Classic is a laugh as far as content goes. I remember the alien quest and the zol's quest and the golden land... and the Graal's. It was neat like 8 years ago... it's not that neat now.

[Torankusu]

Originally Posted by konidias

So you're saying I didn't play Classic "back in the day"? I was playing Classic long before hera quests existed.

The solution is *not* to have push/pull blocks clientsided. As I've already stated I don't want people moving invisible objects from other people's perspective.

Classic quests were garbage compared to what can be achieved now. All I remember from Classic quests are loads of baddies room after room, and a few block puzzles. No offense, but I think you have fond memories of Classic because of your newness to Graal at the time and the community that existed. Classic is a laugh as far as content goes. I remember the alien quest and the zol's quest and the golden land... and the Graal's. It was neat like 8 years ago... it's not that neat now.

I was referring more about the fact that it didn't matter how many people were in a room trying to do classic quests. Pushing/pulling clientside IS a bad idea, but your alternate solution would involve much more work than is absolutely necessary.

[konidias]

Originally Posted by Torankusu

I was referring more about the fact that it didn't matter how many people were in a room trying to do classic quests. Pushing/pulling clientside IS a bad idea, but your alternate solution would involve much more work than is absolutely necessary.

It didn't matter because nobody took it into consideration... That doesn't mean it was a better solution.

I really don't feel that it will be a problem to script a simple timer that is displayed on your screen, showing you how much time you get to complete the quest. I also don't think there will be problems with people tying up quests or having to wait forever to do one... Like I said, there will be many multiplayer quests so I think people can live with the fact that there will also be some strictly single player ones. These mutliplayer quests will be specifically designed for multiple players... the puzzles... the bosses... everything from top to bottom will be created with multiplayer mode in mind.

It's really not a problem to do... and I do believe that's the method we'll go with. I don't think it's going to ruin anyone's experience... in fact, I think it will make the experience better.

[Chandler]

Originally Posted by konidias

I really don't feel that it will be a problem to script a simple timer that is displayed on your screen, showing you how much time you get to complete the quest.

Oh I like this idea.

[konidias]

Originally Posted by Chandler

Oh I like this idea.

Me too. I think it will add an extra challenge to quests. I also think it could be used to achieve extra rewards, such as finishing within a certain amount of time... and I was also thinking of "perfect" quest awards for people who could make it through a quest without losing any health.

[zell12]

I like the timer, but like GK does for its map dungeons, do something like that?

[smirt362]

When you say Multiplayer quests do you mean something similar to one of Maloria's aqua duct quest where players have to open gates for each other but more fleshed out?