Merchandising: Ideas to help Graal

[Tyhm]

Originally Posted by Stefan

It's not like we don't read these forums. We have several things planned, and will announce them when it's time. There are around 6-7 points of the poll which are connected to those plans. It is not that easy to take part in these discussions because people take everything for granted and official when it's just opinion, and on the other hand think it's just an opinion and can make fun of it when its official.

Oh, good then. (Of course, it's the Hubworld thread that has all the meaty technical bits...a true Global Server would require a handful of tools that, to the best of my knowledge, don't Yet exist)

Originally Posted by pacMASTA

I would throw it in the bin if i recieve a graal picture in any way shape or form.

Honestly who wants to deface their property with an ugly blown up pixelated picture of your graal character when blown up the quality would look horific. Honestly the shirts look stupid enough. Their is no real graal fanbase you dont see anyone running around saying I LOVE GRAAL like some people like CS, Battlefield series, star wars, warcraft, etc. So this is a terrible idea selling merchandice is just a waste of time.

Originally Posted by zim5354

i would never wear a graal shirt...anywhere lol.

Regarding "Shirt=Dum!": While your opinion is valid and has been noted, it is not relevant. You won't wear a shirt with a Graalian on it, Moonie will. Thus, there Is a market for the shirt, and it isn't you. Thus, your opinions on what the shirt you won't wear looks like, etc. is a scoch counterproductive...it's like an amish person having an opinion on the privatization of the internet, if you're not gonna use it you really oughtn't vote on it.

[pacMASTA]

Originally Posted by Tyhm

Regarding "Shirt=Dum!": While your opinion is valid and has been noted, it is not relevant. You won't wear a shirt with a Graalian on it, Moonie will. Thus, there Is a market for the shirt, and it isn't you. Thus, your opinions on what the shirt you won't wear looks like, etc. is a scoch counterproductive...it's like an amish person having an opinion on the privatization of the internet, if you're not gonna use it you really oughtn't vote on it.

So your saying its for the parents and grandpas of the the 13yearold players? Im sure most people who play wouldnt be caught dead in one.

Appealing to a small market instead of the general populus is not a way to make money.

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by Tyhm

You won't wear a shirt with a Graalian on it, Moonie will. Thus, there Is a market for the shirt,

I want a coffee cup too....I drink lots of coffee!

[excaliber7388]

People make their own t-shirts all the time.
They need to start acting like a business if they want to make money, that's all I have to say.

[konidias]

I think the problem with the Graal store merchandise is that it's too amateur looking. The images are far too complex for a Graal t-shirt. You need something simple like this:



It's really crappy gfx and badly put together but the general idea is there....

Instead of just slapping some gigantic ugly character or a screenshot or something on the shirt... just make it a little logo with simple colors and some text. (I don't have Graal's font so deal with it) I just think it's the whole idea of having a shirt with a cartoon character on it that turns most people off.

This is coming from a guy who has a domokun shirt and a shirt of shigeru miyamoto's face. You can still use characters they just can't look like cartoons.

edit: The only way you'll get me to wear a shirt with a cartoon character is if the artwork is simply amazing. I have a Trigun shirt but the art is so badass that it's okay that it's a cartoon drawing. It looks like a piece of art and not just some colored doodle.

[konidias]

This is a double post but this is something totally different from what I just mentioned. Different idea:

Contests. Again I think contests would be so great for Graal. There is so much potential there. If you REALLY want to get some great t-shirts and stuff for Graal, why not hold a contest giving anyone with a gold account a month to make a t-shirt design (front and back) and then submit it to the contest. Then after the month is up, all the submissions would be posted on the site and people could vote on which ones they like best. The top 2-3 designs get made into shirts... the winners get free time added on their account.

Not only did you just get someone else to make your new shirts, but you made sure that the community liked the design, and all it would cost you is some time added to a couple of accounts... Everybody wins.

You'd just need to make sure the voting system was set up for 1 vote per image per gold account.

It encourages people to upgrade so that they can participate in the contest or vote for the finalists. Of course, these types of contests would have to be held often... not just one time. (not the same contest, but contests in general)

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by konidias

I just think it's the whole idea of having a shirt with a cartoon character on it that turns most people off.

I agree with this by what people have said. I don't think I have talked to a teenager yet on this game that would wear those tee-shirts. The images on them now do not even look like Graal, except the screenshot of classic (which is why I wanted that particular item). The images put on the tee-shirts and other merchandise should be what attracts teenagers, and from different playerworlds, such as Zone. The only way to know this would be from input from the players. What kind of images would you like to see on Graal merchandise? What would make you think about buying merchandise? What would attract you to the merchandise? What kind of merchandise would you like to see? I am 41 years old, there is no way I could even begin to tell you what would attract a teenager to buy merchandise from Graal.

Me? I would buy a bumpersticker, a keyring perhaps, a coffee mug (which they currently have), a tee-shirt with my character and nick on it, perhaps a license plate with my character and nick on it, things like this I would buy, but I seriously doubt that a teenager would be interested in any of this.

[-Ching]

Originally Posted by Darlene159

Me? I would buy a bumpersticker, a keyring perhaps, a coffee mug (which they currently have), a tee-shirt with my character and nick on it, perhaps a license plate with my character and nick on it, things like this I would buy, but I seriously doubt that a teenager would be interested in any of this.

I seriously doubt many people would

[Tyhm]

Originally Posted by -Ching

I seriously doubt many people would

Well, what WOULD interest Many People?

How is a World of Warcraft shirt better than a Graal shirt? Just because it's in the news?

Maybe the problem is we're trying to compete with the big boys - we're an indie company, and should behave like it. Why not come out with a retro shirt, one that looks like someone found it at a garage sale, one that looks like it was printed in the 80s (or reprinted at Hot Topic)? Think the "Choose your weapons" shirt with the (either Castlevania or Zelda) weapons images...or the "Blue wizard needs food badly" shirts, something like that...
*shrugs* It's an idea.
Get a newbie running away from a baddy, yelling "Where I get ying-yang in a box?!"

Originally Posted by konidias

I think the problem with the Graal store merchandise is that it's too amateur looking. The images are far too complex for a Graal t-shirt. You need something simple like this:



It's really crappy gfx and badly put together but the general idea is there....

Hmm...Well, for one, you can use a Smart Resize/Vector program to enlarge the Noob Head without pixelating it, but I'm not sure I'm getting which edge of the razor you're on - should we get a really good artist to come up with a really good artistic rendering, as per your trigun shirt, or should we stick to your guns and go pixelgraphic?

[excaliber7388]

Originally Posted by Darlene159

I agree with this by what people have said. I don't think I have talked to a teenager yet on this game that would wear those tee-shirts. The images on them now do not even look like Graal, except the screenshot of classic (which is why I wanted that particular item). The images put on the tee-shirts and other merchandise should be what attracts teenagers, and from different playerworlds, such as Zone. The only way to know this would be from input from the players. What kind of images would you like to see on Graal merchandise? What would make you think about buying merchandise? What would attract you to the merchandise? What kind of merchandise would you like to see? I am 41 years old, there is no way I could even begin to tell you what would attract a teenager to buy merchandise from Graal.

Me? I would buy a bumpersticker, a keyring perhaps, a coffee mug (which they currently have), a tee-shirt with my character and nick on it, perhaps a license plate with my character and nick on it, things like this I would buy, but I seriously doubt that a teenager would be interested in any of this.

Make them yourself
The main problem with that, is that teenagers (your largest demograph) would not use them so much.

[Tyhm]

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

Make them yourself
The main problem with that, is that teenagers (your largest demograph) would not use them so much.

So - a TShirt designed to be used by teenagers (your largest demographic) would not be used so much by teenagers? Crazy talk! Why not? Are you claiming it's impossible to market Graal T-Shirts to teenagers?
Mainstream, I'll grant - we're never getting the jocks, the rockers, etc. But there's ALWAYS that one indy kid at school, the one who likes the german band nobody else has ever heard of, the one who can tell you why the Betamax was better than VHS, the one who still owns a DIVX player he found for just $3 at a garage sale, the one who's trying to track down an authentic Volkswagon Schwimvagon just so he can see it - you're saying Graal has less indie cred than, say, those puppets on NPR that said "Borrowin' without askin' is stealin'!"

[excaliber7388]

I doubt it would be cost effective to produce them before you sell them, since demand for them isn't high.
Maybe if you only had them made after the purchase was made, although this would make it take about a day longer to process.
Which isn't that long, but people connect longer processing times for shipment with a lower quality business, and they may not trust it in the future.

[Tyhm]

(There have been objections to me calling all these things How To Save Graal, as though it's a foregone conclusion that the death of Lifetime Classic is the death of Graal. I figure it is, some figure it isn't, so)

The advertising thread spawned a new branch - Merchandising. Moonie made a homemade Graal bumper sticker for her car, there's been talk that the shop needs to be updated with less "Anime rendition of five characters that don't exist on Graal, BUY ME NOW!" and more "Your character here", etcetera...I don't have the alternate designs handy. T-Shirts, Mugs, Bumperstickers, Book Covers, etc; the ideas have pretty well run the gamut.

There's also been a big push towards "TShirts are dumb, you'd have to pay me to wear a Graal TShirt, I'd never accept a sticker in a million years" - though these people have (largely) yet to explain themselves beyond "Lolz u=dum".

Is it possible to make merchandise that will appeal to Graal's players?
If so, how - by making really good mass-produced artworks? Commissioning an art contest, winner goes on the shirt? Customizing each shirt: They all say the URL, but have your character with your name saying your slogan? You walk into a room on Classic to take a screenshot? Or perhaps get artistic renderings of the standard-issue body and heads, then paperdoll-composite them? Ditto the bumperstickers and mugs? Market it as a retro game, or try and keep it mainstream?
Sell it for profit, or sell it at cost to get the word out? On the latter, Post the images on the website so players can print their own?

[Googi]

I don't think a whole lot of people are buying merchandise from any MMORPGs.

[excaliber7388]

As I stated in your other thread, unless they had them ordered only as soon as they got the order, and don't get any more (order them as you sell them), they will be fine.
But this will not generate a large profit, and it will take time.
It's something I guess

[zim5354]

...would anyone wear a graal t-shirt?...i sure as hell wouldent.

[Curt1zzle]

I pledge to purchase a Graal shotglass - if one is made.

[napo_p2p]

Originally Posted by Curt1zzle

I pledge to purchase a Graal shotglass - if one is made.

Be careful. They might just make one and put it for sale for $1,000,000.

But, yea, I'm with you. I'd buy one too, as long as it isn't ridiculously priced.

[excaliber7388]

Originally Posted by Curt1zzle

I pledge to purchase a Graal shotglass - if one is made.

Originally Posted by napo_p2p

Be careful. They might just make one and put it for sale for $1,000,000.

But, yea, I'm with you. I'd buy one too, as long as it isn't ridiculously priced.

Alcohol is bad!
Graal would never do it.
But I'd buy one

[Andy0687]

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

Alcohol is bad!
Graal would never do it.
But I'd buy one

Sadly enough so would I.

[Tyhm]

*guilty*
What? I need at least one more shotglass if my guests are gonna play drinking games...

[excaliber7388]

This is what I mean by appealing to your largest demograph.
It's older teens here (and most over 18).
They need to start thinking about that already.

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

This is what I mean by appealing to your largest demograph.
It's older teens here (and most over 18).
They need to start thinking about that already.

Prove to me that the majority of the population that plays Graal is 18.

[Twinny]

Originally Posted by Darlene159

Prove to me that the majority of the population that plays Graal is 18.

Hopefully Unixmad has that kind of information readily available. He could tell us what the general age group for Graal is so people can come up with ideas to target this particular age group.

[excaliber7388]

Originally Posted by Darlene159

Prove to me that the majority of the population that plays Graal is 18.

I did the best I can for the internet.
Lets look at the topics we TRY to discuss, the things we TRY to say.
Unix should have this info available to him, and you need to stop fooling yourself, it's getting downright pathetic.
If they marked above 18 on that poll I set up a while back, then they should be treated like they're over 8, because that's what they want...even if they were lying.
Get it?
Now, prove to me that we're all little 10 year olds who broke the rules to get here

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

I did the best I can for the internet.
Lets look at the topics we TRY to discuss, the things we TRY to say.
Unix should have this info available to him, and you need to stop fooling yourself, it's getting downright pathetic.
If they marked above 18 on that poll I set up a while back, then they should be treated like they're over 8, because that's what they want...even if they were lying.
Get it?
Now, prove to me that we're all little 10 year olds who broke the rules to get here

I don't know why you are getting angry. This isn't about what age group frequents the forums (as in posting frequently), this is about the age group in which actually plays Graal. I would be interested to know myself, but no one should assume that the majority of the players are 18 or older. Again, this is about the game, and finding merchandise to attract players, not about the forums.

Originally Posted by Twinny

Hopefully Unixmad has that kind of information readily available. He could tell us what the general age group for Graal is so people can come up with ideas to target this particular age group.

I agree, but I have had quite a few kids tell me that they aren't even 13 yet, but said they are 13 in order to play, so the information wont be entirely accurate, but it would be close enough, I think, to try to get some ideas as to what direction the marketing should go.
I think it would be better, though, to find out from members what kinds of stuff they would purchase, rather than just go by age group.

[Tyhm]

Yeah...it'll be a few days before we can get marketting data out of Unixmad, so in the meantime, let's just get a few proposals together and worry about which one to push to the fore later.
So, say our demographics (with sizes to be determined later) are:
Babies, sure, Graal bibs.
Young'uns (preteens who claimed to be 13)
Teenagers - and let's be fair, split it into
Early Teenagers (13-15) and
Late Teenagers (15-17)
Young Adult (18-21)
Adult (21-35): Shot glasses
-insert name here- (36-50)
50+: Adult diapers. Totally.

[Devil]

*Yawn*

This really didn't need to be split and make another topic.

Graal has tried this before, and it didn't work out. Just admit it, no one wants to wear Graal shirts.

[excaliber7388]

Originally Posted by Darlene159

I don't know why you are getting angry. This isn't about what age group frequents the forums (as in posting frequently), this is about the age group in which actually plays Graal. I would be interested to know myself, but no one should assume that the majority of the players are 18 or older. Again, this is about the game, and finding merchandise to attract players, not about the forums.

If they don't frequent the forums, they don't frequent the site.
As for the forums, you know my opinion

I agree, but I have had quite a few kids tell me that they aren't even 13 yet

You should ban them then.

[Darlene159]

Originally Posted by Devil

*Yawn*

This really didn't need to be split and make another topic.

Graal has tried this before, and it didn't work out. Just admit it, no one wants to wear Graal shirts.

There are or can be a lot more options then just tee-shirts. Give some ideas.

Originally Posted by excaliber7388

If they don't frequent the forums, they don't frequent the site.

What? That makes no sense. People do not have to have forums access to go on the website.

You should ban them then.

Ban people in game? Not only can I not ban people in game, but this doesn't even apply to this thread. I was making a point, and it wasn't about them being allowed or disallowed to play.

[Devil]

How about spending some money on some real advertising such as game magazines, I have pushed this with unixmad before and he told me to pay for it, because I got a good deal from an awesome mag over here in Australia. Last time I checked, I'm not a staff member of Graal and I don't see me coming up with a few hundred dollars to support a game that doesn't support me.

[Tyhm]

1) That'd be advertising, not merchandising;
2) Which magazines? When? How? An awesome mag over there in Australia would open up the Australian market to be sure (assuming you have less than 20 monthly game-rags to water things down like we do in America...it's quite mindboggling, looking at the racks) - but what format should it be in? State that Graal is the best retro game on the market and attractively priced? Push that "For all of you who always wanted to put together your favorite oldschool Nintendo games - now's your chance"? What angle would do best in Australia, aside from "Not dumb T-Shirts lolz"?

[Devil]

You lost me at "Not dumbt-shirts lolz" because I don't talk or type like that.

Sorry for the fact that my job is about advertising and selling and I know how to do my job damn well, and for the fact that I know t-shirts ARE actually stupid and will NOT sell.

Anyway, forgetting that, we don't have 100 stupid different magazines, and I know for a fact if Graal had an advertisement in our biggest magazine over here, it would draw in ALOT more accounts, and upgrades.

Maybe someone should tell administration that you have to spend money to make money in this world.

[Tyhm]

Oh, that is a fact which has been well noted - Unixmad himself has been talking about how we need to advertise, which has led to these (many) threads discussing the various ways.
But again, if you don't think we should focus on what merchandise would best get the word out, perhaps we should discuss it here?

[Devil]

I posted there Chief

[excaliber7388]

Originally Posted by Darlene159

What? That makes no sense. People do not have to have forums access to go on the website.

Yeah, you've seen the ****ty website..if they don't browse the ****ty forums, they won't browse the ****ty website.

Ban people in game? Not only can I not ban people in game, but this doesn't even apply to this thread. I was making a point, and it wasn't about them being allowed or disallowed to play.

They broke the rules, and you should have reported them.