Scamming

xAndrewx · #1 12-05-2004, 03:07 PM

Illigal or not. I want a admin to tell me.

Malinko · #2 12-05-2004, 05:24 PM

Scamming. Hm.

It's one big subject to debate on. If you lose an item from a trade which someone "scammed" you, then it's legal. If you use some sort of tool that steals passwords or something of that, then that's illegal. I'm sure you get what I'm trying to say.

Crono · #3 12-05-2004, 05:31 PM

yeah, that GK staff encourage trade scams and are too lazy to do anything about it when some innocent guy loses something that he worked hard for because he's stupid.

Eckoic · #4 12-05-2004, 05:34 PM

owned

Malinko · #5 12-05-2004, 05:34 PM

Well restoring is only for serious cases and that only Stefan can do. Other than that, we don't control who someone trusts by a scam.

Crono · #6 12-05-2004, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malinko

Other than that, we don't control who someone trusts by a scam.

what?

Eckoic · #7 12-05-2004, 05:40 PM

owned

Zero Hour · #8 12-05-2004, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerami

yeah, that GK staff encourage trade scams and are too lazy to do anything about it when some innocent guy loses something that he worked hard for because he's stupid.

Yea, heh. I see it more like this.

The GK Staff arn't responsible for table scams. If you're naive enough to hand your possessions to someone else then perhaps all that hard work was a waste, and should have been taken into consideration when you stupidly handed your possessions to another player, Si?

Oops, owled.

[EDIT]

Also - if a scamm is proven I will put the scammer in pillory as a punishment, but I will not do anything more.

[/EDIT]

Crono · #9 12-05-2004, 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zero Hour

The GK Staff arn't responsible for table scams. If you're naive enough to hand your possessions to someone else then perhaps all that hard work was a waste, and should have been taken into consideration when you stupidly handed your possessions to another player, Si?

But what if that player is young and stupid? You're going to let the little guy get hurt like that? I havn't been scammed, but there are a lot of people who take advantage of stupid people who have nice items.

Quote:

Oops, owled.

Nah.

Quote:

[EDIT]

Also - if a scamm is proven I will put the scammer in pillory as a punishment, but I will not do anything more.

[/EDIT]

What if the scammer admits to scamming?

Zero Hour · #10 12-05-2004, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerami

But what if that player is young and stupid? You're going to let the little guy get hurt like that?

Then perhaps he shouldn't be trading his items away, yet. But I can tell you this - the staff shouldn't be responsible for your lack of responsibility... or we would setting your food to 999 everytime you let it get to 0, or finding your pet because you didn't tie it up. Yea, I would let the "little guy" (what about girls?) get hurt like that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerami

I havn't been scammed, but there are a lot of people who take advantage of stupid people who have nice items.

I havn't been scammed either, I guess you and I arn't so stupid.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerami

Nah.

Yeap.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerami

What if the scammer admits to scamming?

illory add ACCOUNT 20

xAndrewx · #11 12-05-2004, 06:58 PM

heh well someone gave me a item intrade tables by accident, i got ****ing banned for it, for not returning the item.

GoZelda · #12 12-05-2004, 10:48 PM

It's legal as long as you don't violate any rules of Graalonline [such as hacking]. Kai had a very nice quote on something alike.

Zero Hour · #13 12-05-2004, 11:18 PM

Yea, it would be interesting to hear Kaimetsu's opinion on the matter.

GoZelda · #14 12-05-2004, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zero Hour

Yea, it would be interesting to hear Kaimetsu's opinion on the matter.

When trading only was possible by dropping and safe trade, he said something like 'Anyone who drops an item is a fool and deserves to be scammed'. And I think it's ****ed up pathetic how people still get scammed even though there are much more secure trading methods. Some people just are idiots.

Zero Hour · #15 12-05-2004, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoZelda

Some people are just idiots.

I absolutely agree.

Zurkiba · #16 12-06-2004, 12:40 AM

They made trade tables for a reason. If you neglect to use the trade table and you are scammed then you are at fault.

Zero Hour · #17 12-06-2004, 12:56 AM

No, people say "Oh, can I borrow this, and that!?" and then some naive person says "Err... sure!" and then the original person doesn't give them their items back. For some reason people have the misconception that the staff should be responsible for this.

FenixTheBanished · #18 12-06-2004, 01:57 AM

You are all ignoring Andy's comments. This topic is about him, not the rule.

He accepted a trade somebody mistakenly opted, and he got banned for not returning the item. Corrupt, no?

RiceNetworkingSource · #19 12-06-2004, 03:06 AM

You can not scam. I talk to Houdiniman about it. He told me that if the pseron is found out they would be ban.

Zurkiba · #20 12-06-2004, 03:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RiceNetworkingSource

You can not scam. I talk to Houdiniman about it. He told me that if the pseron is found out they would be ban.

It's too hard to prove if people have scammed.

FenixTheBanished · #21 12-06-2004, 04:02 AM

Here is Stefan's look on scamming (from back when).

Quote :

Scamming is legal unless a bug is used on the trade tables. So be careful people, you lend out items at your own risk that Graal Kingdoms staff aren't in liberty to replace.

<heres some useless updates!>

~

Yeah. It's been that way for a long ol' time.

Googi · #22 12-06-2004, 05:45 AM

Well, what kind of scamming are you talking about?

Zero Hour · #23 12-06-2004, 06:51 AM

Duh, I'm stupid. Here are my items. Oh, you won't give them back? Damnit... MOM!

Geno · #24 12-06-2004, 07:11 AM

scamming is cool.

xAndrewx · #25 12-06-2004, 09:17 AM

so it is legal, how in hell did i get banned then.. You can't just ban someone because they got scammed of some of the best items.. either you do nothing or you ban everyone what is it

FenixTheBanished · #26 12-06-2004, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

so it is legal, how in hell did i get banned then.. You can't just ban someone because they got scammed of some of the best items.. either you do nothing or you ban everyone what is it

The thing is, Staff of GK follow no rules of being a Admin with rc3, there are NO Guidelines, and they can ban as they see fit. They make the rules on the spot, so to speak.

Python523 · #27 12-06-2004, 01:30 PM

Scamming is only illegal if the methods used to scam violate the terms of service or were of some sort of bug abuse.

xAndrewx · #28 12-06-2004, 01:50 PM

ok, well i think you should unban everyone who has been banned for getting items the legal way.

you should make the guidelines more aware so people will know on the rules so they can make sure they don't do anything illegally whilst scammin

Zero Hour · #29 12-06-2004, 05:38 PM

An aura of confusion will help prevent scamming, too. Then the scammer won't know what punishment they could get for scamming and won't scamm.

And, I mean, c'mon - there's hardly a button on RC that says "Unban all illegitimately banned people"

nullify · #30 12-06-2004, 06:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zero Hour

An aura of confusion will help prevent scamming, too. Then the scammer won't know what punishment they could get for scamming and won't scamm.

And, I mean, c'mon - there's hardly a button on RC that says "Unban all illegitimately banned people"

I smell a new update to RC!

Googi · #31 12-07-2004, 04:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nullify

I smell a new update to RC!

I smell the return of Hero McDohl!

Raziel · #32 12-07-2004, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

heh well someone gave me a item intrade tables by accident, i got ****ing banned for it, for not returning the item.

I think Bjorn said something about impersonation and/or trade table abuse.

xAndrewx · #33 12-07-2004, 09:12 AM

ah :O! I <3 raziel now though.

Kaimetsu · #34 12-07-2004, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoZelda

he said something like 'Anyone who drops an item is a fool and deserves to be scammed'

I really don't remember saying that.

Still, it is difficult to sympathise with these people. If they're scammed through use of a bug or some kind of deception then yeah, punish the bad guy and return the items. Other types (like when people would drop items and run between them, back when the secure trading system was introduced) are less deserving of consideration.

Raziel · #35 12-07-2004, 06:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

ah :O! I <3 raziel now though.

<3

Zero Hour · #36 12-07-2004, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaimetsu

I really don't remember saying that.

Still, it is difficult to sympathise with these people. If they're scammed through use of a bug or some kind of deception then yeah, punish the bad guy and return the items. Other types (like when people would drop items and run between them, back when the secure trading system was introduced) are less deserving of consideration.

I've given lots of detail on how people are being "scammed", please give a more detailed opinion on the matter, Confucius.

Kaimetsu · #37 12-07-2004, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zero Hour

please give a more detailed opinion on the matter

Give me a specific example and I'll give you an opinion.

Zero Hour · #38 12-07-2004, 07:30 PM

I have a HSoD+12 (High Shield of Deflection) and a pair of Lucky Boots+12... I loan them to you, for example. You decided that, even though I was kind and trusting enough to loan them to you, you're going to keep them. Those were my items, I loaned them to you, they are yours now?

I loaned them to you using the tables, so therefor it's the staff's responsability to baby sit me.

Or in Andrew's case he was being a little jokester and got banned:

Someone was trading an item to someone else, but the other member wasn't on the table so Andrew quickly got on the table and accepted - the other party expected the original person to get on the table, and accepted out of reaction, for this Andrew was banned (As far as I understand he wouldn't give the items back, though I think they were returned later)

Kaimetsu · #39 12-07-2004, 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zero Hour

I have a HSoD+12 (High Shield of Deflection) and a pair of Lucky Boots+12... I loan them to you, for example. You decided that, even though I was kind and trusting enough to loan them to you, you're going to keep them

Kosher. Not the staff members' jobs to intervene in such things.

However.

It would be interesting if special contracts could be drawn up, assisted by the game server. One of the parties writes a little document, maybe adds some kind of link to the item in question (does the mudlib give unique IDs for all items?), and then submits it to the other. If both 'sign' the document then it can (and should) be enforced by game staff.

Quote:

Someone was trading an item to someone else, but the other member wasn't on the table so Andrew quickly got on the table and accepted

Guilty. Unless he returns the items willingly without intervention from staff, he should be punished.

xAndrewx · #40 12-07-2004, 08:00 PM

It isn't really a bug though. Or an glitch.
It's over now, But yeh that's how it went down. Mabie add a link some place telling them to read the GK rules.