Gun balances round three: Rare guns & mid-tier

[paintballdude956]

aka the clean-up round of balances. Reminder: these go into effect on WEDNESDAY
See here: http://pastebin.com/JC2E87bN

I was lucky when I started as Gun Admin. Wil had done a fantastic job just a year ago, and most of his stats needed no tweaking at all. In my opinion, a stable set of guns is far more important than a 100%-completely balanced set of guns.
I don't want to be tweaking things ever so slightly week-after-week. That's why this will be the last in my series of major changes for guns. (note: I may have one patch in the future that focuses on fixes or very slight changes to low-tier (sub 400k) guns). Additionally, I may have to tweak the new guns that I release, as well (especially those using special systems like secondary fire etc.)

I'm actually quite satisfied with how balanced things are on the whole. From now on, I'm going to be focusing on releasing new guns at all price-points.


By the way, thanks for all the feedback, guys and gals. It's been helpful

[Chorchizcool]

WOOOOOOOOOOO
these changes look very nice, im definitely thinking of buying an FAL now. i really loved the idea and the GFX but the freeze was too much.


AND YAY FOR NEW GUNS

[Fiberwyre_P2P]

Round 4 should definitely include a buff to the Tempest's energy numbers.

my opinion:
It should be able to at least fire nonstop 20-30 shots before having to recharge (similar to other guns in this tier, which can fire 30-50 shots while only having to stop for .3-.45 seconds to reload) and the regen shouldn't take more than 2-3 seconds from empty to full.

As it is now, the energy system is a MAJOR detriment to the gun, bringing it well below even tier 3 guns, even though this is billed as a "god-tier" gun.
basically just a semi-auto navy with a 13 shot clip.

either that, or increase the rate of fire to godlike levels (.05 or .1), maybe increase the damage by 1 or 2, and make it a gun you can run up and assassinate people with and then retreat to recharge.

[Godzilla]

Originally Posted by Fiberwyre_P2P

It should be able to at least fire nonstop 20-30 shots before having to recharge (similar to other guns in this tier, which can fire 30-50 shots while only having to stop for .3-.45 seconds to reload) and the regen shouldn't take more than 2-3 seconds from empty to full.

As it is now, the energy system is a MAJOR detriment to the gun, bringing it well below even tier 3 guns, even though this is billed as a "god-tier" gun.
basically just a semi-auto navy with a 13 shot clip.

If they intend to sell some out of the store, they're going to want to make them so OP that players can tell it's amazingly good just by watching someone else use it. Right now I can get cluster raped by 3 guys in a raid or shoot very slowly in a 1 v 1 to maintain my "no need to reload" over them when the reload time on their guns is so quick I don't have a chance to rush them on it unless I'm just rushing after they've shot a bunch of bullets.

Couldn't agree more.

[Supaman771]

I used the Tempest for a few days and found it honestly fine. If you're **** and need to hold D or spam 400 bullets to kill someone, then buy the gun that does that. Tempest lets me move constantly, semi-auto is perfect for self-control.. lets me pick my shots and never having to reload is a huge advantage over any other gun.. if you pick your shots/rushes you can beat anyone.

If you reduce the energy cost per shot too much, you'll have to reduce the regeneration rate.. otherwise it would become infinite. And if you reduce the regeneration too much, the 'full reload' time becomes detrimental or discouraging.

If you only get '13 shots in a clip' then you're using it wrong. But if Ishmael wants to mess with it a bit, that's up to him.

[Godzilla]

You can't compete "choosing your shots" against someone rushing you holding D and walling you with an Mp5. If you think otherwise let's betspar my full extent of riches to your full extent of riches, one player walks away with a cleaned account, you can use the tempest and I'll use my navy.

Now that you're done trying to sound like the best player ever, let's move onto facts; This weapon was released to be better than tier 3 weapons, so far everyone I have let use this weapon, has said the same thing; "This thing is garbage."

Now, it's nothing wrong with whoever made the gun, it's where they have placed the gun in the food chain. The gun can't compete against most tier 3 weapons, especially when those tier 3 weapons are in the hands of an elite player or multiple player(s) during PK.

The gun needs some serious tweaking, just because you helped with it doesn't make it perfect and everyone gets sick of that kind of attitude, especially from you.

Now if you still feel the need to attempt to say the gun is on a whole new tier, that it is better than any tier 3 weapon and that because you helped develop it with Ishmael means it's OBVIOUSLY something wrong with the 10 other people who have used it, feel free to accept my betspar.

[Supaman771]

Originally Posted by Godzilla

feel free to accept my betspar.

sry I don't spar laggers.

[TheLinkMan2002]

I have to agree with godzilla here. i like that it is unique but other than that in order to fire consistently (and still reaching a long recharge time just at a slower rate) you have to fire the gun at what equates to a .5 firerate. For a gun at its price it should atleast be on par with the guns its trying to join the tier of. its energy consumption should be around 1/3 of what it is now. or its regen doubled.

[shrimps]

Could do some complicated math and change it to an energy and overheating system.
The faster you fire the higher it heats up, and the slower the recharge.
Some sort of variation could give you the spam ability you want but if you spam too much then you're SOL.

[TheLinkMan2002]

Its not that i want it super spammable. it just has to be able to keep up and compete in long battles. be good for more than just defensive sparring.

[TheLinkMan2002]

Also the energy should recharge even while you're switched to a different gun. it takes way longer than a normal reload to cap off before a spar so switching to it when its empty feels like it takes ages to refill.

[Tim_Rocks]

Might be cool to have an engery gun that degrades as you use it. Pay to repair or increase energy capacity.

[Fiberwyre_P2P]

Originally Posted by Supaman771

[...]
Tempest lets me move constantly, semi-auto is perfect for self-control.. lets me pick my shots and never having to reload is a huge advantage over any other gun.. if you pick your shots/rushes you can beat anyone.
[...]

If you only get '13 shots in a clip' then you're using it wrong. But if Ishmael wants to mess with it a bit, that's up to him.

You could easily do the same thing with a TG or SG552 (something with a bigger clip that you probably wouldn't need to reload if you're "picking your shots") and still have 1 extra damage AND the flexibility to also spam bullets if need be. All for a lot less than the price of a Tempest.

Originally Posted by Tim_Rocks

Might be cool to have an engery gun that degrades as you use it. Pay to repair or increase energy capacity.

Might not.

[paintballdude956]

Originally Posted by Fiberwyre_P2P

Round 4 should definitely include a buff to the Tempest's energy numbers.

I completely agree and this will be happening. If I can find the time tonight/tomorrow, I would even push them out with patch 3 changes since it affects such a small number of people (and would anyone complain about me buffing for a change? )

Originally Posted by Supaman771

If you reduce the energy cost per shot too much, you'll have to reduce the regeneration rate.. otherwise it would become infinite. And if you reduce the regeneration too much, the 'full reload' time becomes detrimental or discouraging.

Rogue's very right here. This is what made it difficult to balance in the first place. I'm confident we can make it feel good though.

Originally Posted by Godzilla

You can't compete "choosing your shots" against someone rushing you holding D and walling you with an Mp5.

This is true, and it's something I overlooked a bit during my extensive testing. Not everyone spars like me (in fact barely anyone does). And I PK conservatively too.

In order for the gun not to be super-niche, it needs some changes.

Originally Posted by TheLinkMan2002

Also the energy should recharge even while you're switched to a different gun. it takes way longer than a normal reload to cap off before a spar so switching to it when its empty feels like it takes ages to refill.

I'm not going to be doing this. I'd rather put the energy regen in good spot.

Originally Posted by Tim_Rocks

Might be cool to have an engery gun that degrades as you use it. Pay to repair or increase energy capacity.

I don't hate this idea for future guns, but i'm not going to do this with the Tempest.

[Godzilla]

Good to see it getting a buff, I feel like if you really want these guns to sell out of the store, you're going to need to buff them to the extent that players can clearly see that they are "over-powered"

I remember when Legendary Guns came out, I think it was 3 of each Legendary Gun, within a month almost all were bought, 2million a pop, 4 different guns. They were ridiculous and that's why they got bought out.

If you want people to spend 1.2million dollars on a gun, expect the gun to be quite over-powered, the gun can always get nerfed in a few months if it becomes a cluster of Tempests and Sables but right now with the exclusivity and the lack of them being bought, they definitely need to be tampered with to gain a sense of worth.

[Tim_Rocks]

Originally Posted by paintballdude956

I don't hate this idea for future guns, but i'm not going to do this with the Tempest.

I was just speaking in general, not the tempest specifically.

[TheLinkMan2002]

Originally Posted by Godzilla

Good to see it getting a buff, I feel like if you really want these guns to sell out of the store, you're going to need to buff them to the extent that players can clearly see that they are "over-powered"

I remember when Legendary Guns came out, I think it was 3 of each Legendary Gun, within a month almost all were bought, 2million a pop, 4 different guns. They were ridiculous and that's why they got bought out.

If you want people to spend 1.2million dollars on a gun, expect the gun to be quite over-powered, the gun can always get nerfed in a few months if it becomes a cluster of Tempests and Sables but right now with the exclusivity and the lack of them being bought, they definitely need to be tampered with to gain a sense of worth.

Those guns were 1.5m and ridiculous. i don't wanna see something like that. hell ltg was 22 damage, .2 firerate, fully auto, 40 shot clip, and had the spread of an s6 and the fastest reload in the game(who actually approved those stats btw, cuz that's what lead to all guns getting nerfed and removed again).

I don't even want it to be over powered, i just want it to be on par. But then again this was a different time when you could buy an mp7 for like 200k and the thing was like p90 is now but 17 damage... Remember tenac guitars? yeah. Lets not go back down that path. I wouldn't mind ar15 coming back and behaving like an ares with spread, not 23 damage again but a solid 22 damage .3 firerate and balanced to match the ares.

Also please bring tar back and do it right, i loved everything about that gun since MW2 was prime.

[Supaman771]

Originally Posted by TheLinkMan2002

Those guns were 1.5m and ridiculous. i don't wanna see something like that. hell ltg was 22 damage, .2 firerate, fully auto, 40 shot clip, and had the spread of an s6 and the fastest reload in the game(who actually approved those stats btw, cuz that's what lead to all guns getting nerfed and removed again).

MD made those super op for the sole purpose of selling them. I disapproved the stats as Gun Admin, but they did it anyway for personal gains.

In other news, I went through and cleaned up the Tempest (code wise) and figured out a better way to mess with the regen system. Ish should have some changes for it tomorrow with this set of gun-stats.