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  #1  
Old 11-14-2012, 01:13 PM
brokk brokk is offline
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Mac development

So my PC is really starting to get slow. I tried to speed it up as much as possible but plain and simple, it's just too old!

I'm thinking about getting a mac laptop/notebook. I know you can play graal on mac (saw the mac download) but can you DEVELOP servers on a mac?
Ex, Graal editor, Graal shop, RC, etc...

I want a mac but I want to stay in development.
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  #2  
Old 11-14-2012, 03:10 PM
Dragon551 Dragon551 is offline
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Mac doesn't get much support when it comes to development. There's no official level editor or Graalshop but there is an RC that supports Mac OSX. You can also use Gonstruct in place of the Level Editor and an in-game GANI editor.

For whatever reason, Gonstruct doesn't work for me and I have to resort to Bootcamp or Parallels to run Windows and use the normal Level Editor but I manage.
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  #3  
Old 11-14-2012, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dragon551 View Post
Mac doesn't get much support when it comes to development. There's no official level editor or Graalshop but there is an RC that supports Mac OSX. You can also use Gonstruct in place of the Level Editor and an in-game GANI editor.

For whatever reason, Gonstruct doesn't work for me and I have to resort to Bootcamp or Parallels to run Windows and use the normal Level Editor but I manage.
Does Bootcamp make your mac run slower??
If not, how would Bootcamp run on Mac Book Air?
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Old 11-14-2012, 03:57 PM
Tigairius Tigairius is offline
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This is just my opinion of course, but I cannot stand apple computers, especially recently. Their devices are great, but the experiences I have had with the OS were pretty awful. Bootcamp will run programs slower naturally, and mac book air will probably be the least of all the modern macbooks to be able to handle Graal well (although I'm sure it does).

I've played with some of the new Windows 8 tablets and computers and I really like them, and you can't go too wrong with most distributions of Linux either although you'll be in the same boat as far as Graal dev goes.

I would stick to getting a Macbook Air if the primary purpose of your computer usage is Facebook and other basic tasks. I've had to do some objective-c iPhone development on an Air before and it was a nightmare for me because it was somewhat sluggish and the tiny screen made things worse.
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Last edited by Tigairius; 11-16-2012 at 09:07 AM.. Reason: clarifying post because it was ambiguous
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Old 11-14-2012, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Tigairius View Post
This is just my opinion of course, but I cannot stand apple computers, especially recently. Their devices are great, but the experiences I have had with the OS were pretty awful. Bootcamp will run programs slower naturally, and mac book air will probably be the least of all the modern macbooks to be able to handle Graal well (although I'm sure it does).

I've played with some of the new Windows 8 tablets and computers and I really like them, and you can't go too wrong with most distributions of Linux either although you'll be in the same boat as far as Graal dev goes.

I would stick to getting a Macbook Air if the primary purpose of your computer usage is Facebook and other basic tasks. I've had to do some objective-c iPhone development on an Air before and it was a nightmare for me because it was somewhat sluggish and the tiny screen made things worse.

Yeah, I'm really not a big fan of Macs either. Was looking for something thin. BUT I JUST found this Netbook. I was wondering if you could look at it and tell me if it could run developer tools smoothly (RC, Photoshop, etc.)

http://www.techtoys2go.com/mba-d16

Last edited by Tigairius; 11-16-2012 at 09:07 AM..
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  #6  
Old 11-14-2012, 04:47 PM
Gos_pira Gos_pira is offline
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Graal should run as smoothly on Macbook Air as that Ultrathin Netbook. Usually when you buy a thinner computer you have to sacrifice the performance over having it thin. But the technology has gotten pretty far when it comes to thin computers now, so I don't see any issues.

Buying a ultrathin PC however will ofcourse make your life easier when it comes to developing for Graal of course.

How long ago was it that you tried the Macbook Air, Tig? I can't really believe a new Macbook Air would suck that much.
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Old 11-14-2012, 06:26 PM
Stephen Stephen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigairius View Post
Their devices are great, but the experiences I have had with the OS were pretty awful. Bootcamp will run programs slower naturally, and mac book air will probably be the least of all the modern macbooks to be able to handle Graal well (although I'm sure it does).
You must have meant Parallels? I can't imagine it would be blazing fast on a macbook air, but then again with the i5 processor it's comparable to a lot of desktop computers (with the exception of the small but super fast 64gb SSD).

VMWare runs very smoothly on my Macbook Pro Retina, the experience is nearly identical to running the OS natively (so far I've used Windows 7 and Backtrack 5.2 Linux). I used Parallels on my last laptop but I didn't like the interface, worked OKAY. Bootcamp is just a special utility to allow the installed OS to have a boot entry and to provide any supporting drivers so that some special Apple hardware runs on your OS.

I had Windows 7 installed through bootcamp, realistically it's a waste of space... I only installed it so I could play some games in their native environment and I rarely play anything now.

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How long ago was it that you tried the Macbook Air, Tig? I can't really believe a new Macbook Air would suck that much.
For any sort of 3D intensive gameplay it would be pretty bad unless you dumb the settings down to their lowest quality. However, I think he meant developing for Mac.
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  #8  
Old 11-14-2012, 11:04 PM
cbk1994 cbk1994 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brokk View Post
Does Bootcamp make your mac run slower??
If not, how would Bootcamp run on Mac Book Air?
You do not want to run Bootcamp, that will require you to dedicate a significant chunk of your hard drive to Windows, and then to restart your computer every time you want to use it (i.e. dual booting). It sucks—I did it for years.

For running RC you have a few options:
  • Use the native Mac RC. This will probably work fine for you, but there are a lot of weird issues and inconsistencies with it.
  • Run a Linux VM (something without a desktop environment) and use X forwarding to use RC on Mac. This is the best solution imo, but requires some overhead.
  • Run a Windows VM. Worst solution imo, hogs resources, slower, poor integration, etc.

For stuff like level editing or GANI editing, you will need to either use the online tools or run a Windows VM.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tigairius View Post
This is just my opinion of course, but I cannot stand apple computers, especially recently. Their devices are great, but the experiences I have had with the OS were pretty awful.
100% agreement here. For anything besides casual web browsing, OS X is now a pile of crap. I used it as my main OS for over 5 years and switched this past summer to Linux because I just couldn't take it anymore.

Quote:
Bootcamp will run programs slower naturally
Bootcamp does not run programs slower, but it does require you to restart your computer every time you want to go back and forth between Windows and OS X. Some of the Apple drivers (for stuff like the trackpad) are sub-par on Windows.

Quote:
mac book air will probably be the least of all the modern macbooks to be able to handle Graal well (although I'm sure it does).
It will not have any problems at all with Graal (speaking from experience with the latest MBAs).

Quote:
I would stick to getting a Macbook Air if the primary purpose of your computer usage is Facebook and other basic tasks. I've had to do development on an Air before and it was a nightmare.
This is a good assessment of the MacBook Air. It's nice as a portable computer, if that's what you're looking for—but not as a development machine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gos_pira View Post
How long ago was it that you tried the Macbook Air, Tig? I can't really believe a new Macbook Air would suck that much.
I have a MacBook Air (brand new, just got it a few weeks ago). It's got very nice hardware (can't recommend SSDs enough). Apple builds very solid laptops; I haven't seen any that are better in terms of appearance or build quality in the same general field. They are overpriced, though, and imo the glossy screen makes it unusable in most cases (but most people aren't as bothered by glossy screens as I am).

If your goal is Graal development, get something running Windows. You wouldn't go wrong with a MacBook if development is only a secondary purpose, though.
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  #9  
Old 11-14-2012, 11:14 PM
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Well I'm looking at this laptop. Can someone tell me if it has the requirements to run Graal smoothly. Also run all the developer tools including PS5.

Its called the MBA D16 Netbook

Here is what it says:

Also Known As: Netbook Navigator Nav13x
Operating System: Windows 7 Ultimate
Processor: Atom N2800/Intel Core i3
Cache: 1MB L2/3MB L3
Graphics: GMA 3600/Intel HD 4000
Screen: 13.3" 1366x768, 16:9
Memory: 2GB/4GB DDR3
Storage: 64/128GB SSD
Audio: in/out, mic, 2x speakers
Card Reader: 3in1 SD/MMC/MS
Other Ports: 2x USB, VGA/RJ45, HDMI
Webcam: VGA front facing
Wi-Fi: 802.11b/g/n
Bluetooth: v2.1
Battery: 4100mAh lithium
Other: 40W power charger
Dimensions: 328*219*18-20mm
Weight: 1.39KG
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  #10  
Old 11-14-2012, 11:16 PM
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  #11  
Old 11-15-2012, 12:02 AM
cbk1994 cbk1994 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brokk View Post
Well I'm looking at this laptop. Can someone tell me if it has the requirements to run Graal smoothly. Also run all the developer tools including PS5.

Its called the MBA D16 Netbook

Here is what it says:

Also Known As: Netbook Navigator Nav13x
Operating System: Windows 7 Ultimate
Processor: Atom N2800/Intel Core i3
Cache: 1MB L2/3MB L3
Graphics: GMA 3600/Intel HD 4000
Screen: 13.3" 1366x768, 16:9
Memory: 2GB/4GB DDR3
Storage: 64/128GB SSD
Audio: in/out, mic, 2x speakers
Card Reader: 3in1 SD/MMC/MS
Other Ports: 2x USB, VGA/RJ45, HDMI
Webcam: VGA front facing
Wi-Fi: 802.11b/g/n
Bluetooth: v2.1
Battery: 4100mAh lithium
Other: 40W power charger
Dimensions: 328*219*18-20mm
Weight: 1.39KG
The processor is a bit underpowered but it looks fine as long as you get the version with 4 GB memory. I would not get anything less than 4 GB of memory today.

Also, 64 GB of storage is going to fill quicker than you think it will. It's great that it's an SSD, but a byte is still just a byte.
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Old 11-15-2012, 12:32 AM
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Originally Posted by cbk1994 View Post
The processor is a bit underpowered but it looks fine as long as you get the version with 4 GB memory. I would not get anything less than 4 GB of memory today.

Also, 64 GB of storage is going to fill quicker than you think it will. It's great that it's an SSD, but a byte is still just a byte.
Well let's say I get the 4 GB version, is graal going to lag at all with the processor not being the best out there?
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Old 11-15-2012, 02:14 AM
BlueMelon BlueMelon is offline
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Some online editors even have more features then the offline one. I prefer using the online editors haven't touched the offline editor is a while really.
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Old 11-15-2012, 02:35 PM
cbk1994 cbk1994 is offline
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Quote:
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Well let's say I get the 4 GB version, is graal going to lag at all with the processor not being the best out there?
I wouldn't think so, but it's hard to tell. A lot of the issues people have with Graal are due more to hardware compatibility than anything else.

Whatever you do, though, don't get the 2 GB RAM version. That's not nearly enough for Windows 7. 4 GB is enough, although I would try to find a computer with 8 or 16 if at all possible.
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Old 11-15-2012, 04:25 PM
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Ive been running windows 8 since they released the developers preview as my primary OS and I have to say I'm more than satisfied with it.
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