Opinion: Tileset

[Tim_Rocks]

Tileset for Era Dev, possible update: Sidewalk and street tiles...

Which do you prefer? Why do you like it? Why don't you like it?

(no, I did not make the tiles, I simply want to implement this into the current dev tileset if this is something players would like. Also, with the first image, the tiles will look a little nicer online, they're low quality... It's the only way to get them to display in the offline editor.)

[WillaWonka]

I like the one with MORE DETAIL (The one of the right)

[Crow]

Originally Posted by WillaWonka

I like the one with MORE DETAIL (The one of the right)

That's not detail, that's noise. I like the first one. It's about time for some new tiles on Era.

[Scoper]

Originally Posted by Crow

That's not detail, that's noise. I like the first one. It's about time for some new tiles on Era.

I agree with Crow. The one on the left looks much smoother.

The tiles on the right are the ones we have now, no? They're not bad in themselves, but my opinion remains.

[Elk]

Hahahaha always hated those noisy structures on the tileset... when I worked for Era, I tried chaning that all, but the Era-people arn't really tolerant when it comes to changes lol... poor population

[Crow]

Originally Posted by Elk

the Era-people arn't really tolerant when it comes to changes

Who gives a damn? Just enforce the changes.

[Crono]

first one is nicer but the size is retarded. they look like they go up to your knees

[fowlplay4]

Originally Posted by Elk

Hahahaha always hated those noisy structures on the tileset... when I worked for Era, I tried chaning that all, but the Era-people arn't really tolerant when it comes to changes lol... poor population

Weren't a lot of your changes half finished and rough art though?

[RogueShatterblade]

Originally Posted by Elk

Hahahaha always hated those noisy structures on the tileset... when I worked for Era, I tried chaning that all, but the Era-people arn't really tolerant when it comes to changes lol... poor population

fortunately you have your own server to tend to and a flourishing population to cultivate as a result of your innovation.

how many players you got online right now, anyway?

[xAndrewx]

I like the first one tbh

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by RogueShatterblade

fortunately you have your own server to tend to and a flourishing population to cultivate as a result of your innovation.

how many players you got online right now, anyway?

He still makes a valid point. I worked for Zodiac and players seem to hate change, even if for the better. And this was Zodiac.

Are you seriously calling him out for not having his own server with lots of players, just because he said Era's graphics look horrible(and they do), and that the players hate change(and they do)?

[smirt362]

Left one, definitely

[smirt362]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

He still makes a valid point. I worked for Zodiac and players seem to hate change, even if for the better. And this was Zodiac.

Are you seriously calling him out for not having his own server with lots of players, just because he said Era's graphics look horrible(and they do), and that the players hate change(and they do)?

Everytime Ketso does...ANYTHING:

"GOSH I HATE KETSO SO MUCH, HE'S RUINING ZODIAC"

[Supaman771]

Originally Posted by smirt362

Everytime Ketso does...ANYTHING:

"GOSH I HATE KETSO SO MUCH, HE'S RUINING ZODIAC"

Zodiac is moving definitely in the right direction with their changes..
It's just how they went about them that bugged me (and a bunch of others).

Instead of doing everything and testing it, they just implement crap and on the server like zodiac it leads to half the players having to reset their levels or skills or even buy new gear every week they decide to change something.

Fixing one seemingly 'overpowered' char leads to 2-3 more.

I spent about a month gathering gear for my Assassin because it was a pretty dominant class with the right gear and skill-set. I ended up having to char-reset and improvise skill sets like 5 times because they kept editing the crap, most of it because they did something as simple as move ONE skill, it would cost you 800k to creset and re-buy everything, then 2 hours to cmp. It became a hassle so I quit until it was back to an equilibrium.

-------

As far as Era goes, and the OP... I prefer the tiles on the left, which I recall using on Dev when Chris was manager. It looks much better, however, in the long run it leaves more room for error and seeing how slowly things got on dev (bunch of people fired) it would be too much of a hassle to add correctly.
(All the corners, sidewalk outlines, cross-walks, inevitable tile errors)
Not to mention some of the tiles themselves have small errors (grass-sidewalk corners).

[RogueShatterblade]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Are you seriously calling him out for not having his own server with lots of players, just because he said Era's graphics look horrible(and they do), and that the players hate change(and they do)?

Bet your ass I am. I'm going to get on anyone who passes judgement on something when they can't do any better themselves.

Graal's graphics are horrible. As far as in relation to the game, Era's graphics are different, as they should be.

In other news, somebody's been menstruating on the tileset. Who's call was this?

[Tim_Rocks]

Originally Posted by Supaman771

It looks much better, however, in the long run it leaves more room for error and seeing how slowly things got on dev

Okay, so I just skimmed through the posts, most of you seem to be more for the left image. This really wouldn't be hard for me to finish within the next couple of days. I just need Alfonso to approve it so I can get started.

[iBreez]

Originally Posted by Supaman771

Zodiac is moving definitely in the right direction with their changes..
It's just how they went about them that bugged me (and a bunch of others).

Instead of doing everything and testing it, they just implement crap and on the server like zodiac it leads to half the players having to reset their levels or skills or even buy new gear every week they decide to change something.

Fixing one seemingly 'overpowered' char leads to 2-3 more.

I spent about a month gathering gear for my Assassin because it was a pretty dominant class with the right gear and skill-set. I ended up having to char-reset and improvise skill sets like 5 times because they kept editing the crap, most of it because they did something as simple as move ONE skill, it would cost you 800k to creset and re-buy everything, then 2 hours to cmp. It became a hassle so I quit until it was back to an equilibrium.

-------

As far as Era goes, and the OP... I prefer the tiles on the left, which I recall using on Dev when Chris was manager. It looks much better, however, in the long run it leaves more room for error and seeing how slowly things got on dev (bunch of people fired) it would be too much of a hassle to add correctly.
(All the corners, sidewalk outlines, cross-walks, inevitable tile errors)
Not to mention some of the tiles themselves have small errors (grass-sidewalk corners).

I agree with this totally. They removed avenger's most valuable skills (Haste, Enrage, Katana Mastery) for a buncha dumb BW blades that aren't useful @ all, which resulted in me raging and changing class to monk. Then they gave back Katana Mastery and gave Traveller (passive speedbuff) to replace haste, and then buffed heatblade to actually be good so I went back to Avenger.

[TheJames]

Anything to changeup the look on Era is good.

[Tim_Rocks]

Originally Posted by TheJames

Anything to changeup the look on Era is good.

Plus bullets are a little more visible while pking.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by RogueShatterblade

I'm going to get on anyone who passes judgement on something when they can't do any better themselves.

I don't have to be a chef to know when something tastes like ****. To anyone who believes otherwise has a lot to learn.

[DeCeaseD]

Oi, I totally forgot I made those sidewalk tiles.. rofl Yeah I def think they look better than the current. (And no, i'm not saying that because I made them.) Would look alot better if buildings were changed to match the style of the sidewalk too imo. (Don't ask me to do it.)

[RogueShatterblade]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

I don't have to be a chef to know when something tastes like ****. To anyone who believes otherwise has a lot to learn.

When all you've ever known is peanut butter, jelly, and lunchmeat, how can you complain that you don't have steak?

You can keep right the f*ck on with the philosophical anecdotes, you're just setting me right in my comfort zone. You're wrong.

There's not much to improve on - and really we're getting way past the point of why I posted in the first
place: some retard was running his mouth about the server and his own mysteriously intangible talent.

So chill out.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by RogueShatterblade

When all you've ever known is peanut butter, jelly, and lunchmeat, how can you complain that you don't have steak?

Except he is an artist, so what's your point?

Originally Posted by RogueShatterblade

You can keep right the f*ck on with the philosophical anecdotes, you're just setting me right in my comfort zone. You're wrong.

Not really. If I was wrong then the world would be a very closed thing. No one but movie directors could critique movies, no one but chefs could critique other chefs, no one but people who have made games would be able to say a game is bad.

Also it goes the other way. If you haven't made a popular server, by your logic, how are you able to say that Era's graphics are good, and that Elk is wrong?

Originally Posted by RogueShatterblade

There's not much to improve on - and really we're getting way past the point of why I posted in the first
place: some retard was running his mouth about the server and his own mysteriously intangible talent.

So chill out.

Except there is. Era graphics are nearly 10 years old. They're old and outdated, and there are a lot that can be improved.

[RogueShatterblade]

Sigh. How did I know this thread would turn into a sh*t show. Okay, here goes -

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Except he is an artist, so what's your point?

We're talking about an EXTREMELY limited space to work with, here. Tileset. TILEset. What are you asking of the server?
Graal3D got scrapped a bazillion years ago. You've got champagne taste on a bologna-cheese-sh*t-sandwich budget.

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Not really. If I was wrong then the world would be a very closed thing. No one but movie directors could critique movies, no one but chefs could critique other chefs, no one but people who have made games would be able to say a game is bad.

Also it goes the other way. If you haven't made a popular server, by your logic, how are you able to say that Era's graphics are good, and that Elk is wrong?

Because I used to run this server, guy. And the problem has never been with the tileset - it's what you do with it.
UN doesn't seem to be having any issues using vanilla. Why? They work with it.

And I said you're wrong haphazardly because I think you're an a**hole.

So there's that.

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Except there is. Era graphics are nearly 10 years old. They're old and outdated, and there are a lot that can be improved.

Remember when we changed the size of the doors? That was fun, right?

This server has lived and breathed on the 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' principle, now GRANTED we have had reset after
reset after reset after reset, but that has been an utter failure in economy management and overall administration, NOT the
graphics of the server.

Listen - I'm not making an effort to run around being the forum troll. There are SOME things that could be improved - the only
thing that springs to mind right now is some of the older guns, but to suggest some sort of overhaul is completely ridiculous.

You want improved graphics? Go play Gears of War.
You want an unorthodox, community-driven game? Play Graal.

It's that simple.

[alskdjfhg]

I like the look of the sidewalks on the first one, but the roads need more texture

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by RogueShatterblade

We're talking about an EXTREMELY limited space to work with, here. Tileset. TILEset. What are you asking of the server?

Is tileset space really an issue? I severely doubt it.

Originally Posted by RogueShatterblade

Graal3D got scrapped a bazillion years ago. You've got champagne taste on a bologna-cheese-sh*t-sandwich budget.

What the hell does Graal3D have to do with anything?

Originally Posted by RogueShatterblade

Because I used to run this server, guy. And the problem has never been with the tileset - it's what you do with it.

The tileset is still an issue. What you could do with it would be vastly improved if the tileset was improved.

Originally Posted by RogueShatterblade

UN doesn't seem to be having any issues using vanilla. Why? They work with it.

And it's a general consensus UN looks like ****.

Originally Posted by RogueShatterblade

And I said you're wrong haphazardly because I think you're an a**hole.

So people criticize a server and you jump to insulting them? You take things way too personally and just seem like some jerk who would rather insult people than listen to useful advice.

Originally Posted by RogueShatterblade

This server has lived and breathed on the 'if it ain't broke, don't fix it' principle, now GRANTED we have had reset after
reset after reset after reset, but that has been an utter failure in economy management and overall administration, NOT the
graphics of the server.

Graphics could be worked over without changing levels, as it was shown above, and would not impede on the progress of the rest of the server. Your approach to development seems to be like a lot of people who don't really know how to approach it: "we have BIG PROBLEMS thus we can never do SMALL STUFF on the side." No. Just because you have higher priorities does not mean you can't accomplish other things as well. It's just an excuse.

Originally Posted by RogueShatterblade

You want improved graphics? Go play Gears of War.
You want an unorthodox, community-driven game? Play Graal.

AKA you set up horribly low standards because there are better games out there. Sounds like good news for the players!

[xAndrewx]

u got served ocelot

[Crow]

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

u got served ocelot

This, pretty much. There's no chance for Ocelot to win this argument with all the crap he's saying.

"Extremely" limited space to work with? Tilesets? Are you living under a rock? Geez. Just because a server works even though it looks like a steaming pile of crap doesn't mean you shouldn't work on improving the graphics.

[Tim_Rocks]

Um... So I finished going through the Era Dev gmap and fixed all the tile errors. Here's a preview.

[Crow]

I agree with Crono. The sidewalks are a tad too high.

[Crono]

Apart from the height problem that looks so much better.

Originally Posted by RogueShatterblade

Bet your ass I am. I'm going to get on anyone who passes judgement on something when they can't do any better themselves.

Argument should have stopped here really, because Dusty can do better and has.

[Scoper]

I think (although this isn't even the original point of the topic..) most of you are missing the point.

Tim is doing SOMETHING within his capabilities. Why would there ever be anything wrong with that?

Yes, gun updates and fancy new content would just be ****ing swell, I agree. But if you have a wayward graphics artist that's willing to sit down and put out some work to bring a fresh take to an old tileset..what's wrong with having them do that, too?

Plus, if I remember correctly, guns aren't being changed anymore as per alfonso's orders.

[RogueShatterblade]

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

CHARGIN MUH LAZR

Nice to see you're still a spineless little punk, Snake. I s'pose some people don't ever change.

Originally Posted by Crono

Argument should have stopped here really, because Dusty can do better and has.

My quarrel was never with him. I tip my hat to anyone who can utilize proper grammar regularly, and in this case, use logic in an argument.

Originally Posted by Crow

"Extremely" limited space to work with? Tilesets? Are you living under a rock? Geez. Just because a server works even though it looks like a steaming pile of crap doesn't mean you shouldn't work on improving the graphics.

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Graphics could be worked over without changing levels, as it was shown above, and would not impede on the progress of the rest of the server. Your approach to development seems to be like a lot of people who don't really know how to approach it: "we have BIG PROBLEMS thus we can never do SMALL STUFF on the side."

Did I not say there was room for improvement? Pretty f*cking sure I did. Wait, let me s-

Originally Posted by RogueShatterblade

There are SOME things that could be improved - the only thing that springs to mind right now is some of the older guns, but to suggest some sort of overhaul is completely ridiculous.

oh, right! There it is!

Maybe it's just my prehistoric, old guard marine corps mindset, but I think you can make a pretty damn fine-looking server with what Era currently has. Of course graphics can be improved - to a degree. I referenced Graal3D as an attempt to improve drastically on our graphics - it never even got off the ground. Why, I'm not sure, but one way to think is because what we have works.

You guys are acting like we have f*cking picket lines on the server as if the whole game looks like a steaming pile of crap. We aren't on Runescape, come on - I'm with Crono, this has gone SO FAR past any sort of relevance to what I posted to begin with. To summarize my position in this trainwreck of a thread, I'm only saying that I think people seem to be asking for too much. If what was requested of the server were more definitively quantified, then we could really get into the meat and potatoes of this. Since my opinion isn't shared, and my rep's taking a hit (twice, actually, I lolled irl), I'll kindly shut the f*ck up.

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

So people criticize a server and you jump to insulting them? You take things way too personally and just seem like some jerk who would rather insult people than listen to useful advice.

Listen man, I've got some pretty thick skin beat into me, I mistake other people for having it too - I call people a**holes about as much as Denis Leary in Rescue Me. I certainly don't like your attitude, or your position, but you have my respect - don't get it twisted.

[Crow]

Originally Posted by RogueShatterblade

I referenced Graal3D as an attempt to improve drastically on our graphics

It wasn't.

[Supaman771]

@Tim: Looks definitely better, if you take the time to convert it and fix the errors, I see no reason why NOT to use it.

[water95]

I like the sidewalk on the one on the left, but the street is way to vague.

[salesman]

tim, you rock

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by RogueShatterblade

oh, right! There it is!

Where you say there was room for improvement had no correlation to where I said there was room for improvements -- graphics.

Originally Posted by RogueShatterblade

Maybe it's just my prehistoric, old guard marine corps mindset, but I think you can make a pretty damn fine-looking server with what Era currently has. Of course graphics can be improved - to a degree. I referenced Graal3D as an attempt to improve drastically on our graphics - it never even got off the ground. Why, I'm not sure, but one way to think is because what we have works.

The graphics can be improved to a vast degree. Also, Graal3D was not an improvement of graphics. It was simply 3D. 3D does not automatically mean better graphics, so that was a horrible example. Graal3D was also widely considered to be pretty horrible looking as well.

The fact that you consider 3D graphics to be automatically superior to 2D graphics shows how little you understand on the subject.

Originally Posted by RogueShatterblade

Listen man, I've got some pretty thick skin beat into me, I mistake other people for having it too - I call people a**holes about as much as Denis Leary in Rescue Me. I certainly don't like your attitude, or your position, but you have my respect - don't get it twisted.

I never said I was offended, but it simply showed how much thought you put into your arguments, or lack thereof, that they even had to make their way into your posts.


Anyways, I'm not saying that priorities need to take a hit. That's dumb. But there are a reason there are such things as priorities, and priorities also don't need to work in a linear way. Anyone who has developed knows this. You can work on larger things, and smaller things at the same time. In fact, it's probably for the better. Usually the things that really need to be fixed are the ones that are the most time-consuming, and honestly, not the most fun. Working on those problems all the time will burn a developer out, make them lose interest. Spending a little time on some other things that eventually will need to be fixed is a good way to be productive and not burn out your motivation on the larger things that most desperately need to be done.

I pity any developer that doesn't indulge himself in little side projects when they're bored, or have run into a wall with the bigger projects.

[RogueShatterblade]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Where you say there was room for improvement had no correlation to where I said there was room for improvements -- graphics.

The graphics can be improved to a vast degree. Also, Graal3D was not an improvement of graphics. It was simply 3D. 3D does not automatically mean better graphics, so that was a horrible example. Graal3D was also widely considered to be pretty horrible looking as well.

The fact that you consider 3D graphics to be automatically superior to 2D graphics shows how little you understand on the subject.



I never said I was offended, but it simply showed how much thought you put into your arguments, or lack thereof, that they even had to make their way into your posts.


Anyways, I'm not saying that priorities need to take a hit. That's dumb. But there are a reason there are such things as priorities, and priorities also don't need to work in a linear way. Anyone who has developed knows this. You can work on larger things, and smaller things at the same time. In fact, it's probably for the better. Usually the things that really need to be fixed are the ones that are the most time-consuming, and honestly, not the most fun. Working on those problems all the time will burn a developer out, make them lose interest. Spending a little time on some other things that eventually will need to be fixed is a good way to be productive and not burn out your motivation on the larger things that most desperately need to be done.

I pity any developer that doesn't indulge himself in little side projects when they're bored, or have run into a wall with the bigger projects.

I agree with you wholeheartedly on your approach on developing. I LATed here and there for Val and Era, but I've never claimed it on my resume, as it were.

Where did I imply improvement on anything other than graphics? We've been talking about the tileset, and graphics in general, right? I didn't know I deviated from that.

As far as the 3D response, don't imply that I'm stupid. Obviously FF7 smokes Super Mario 64. I picked a bad example, I guess, but I know full goddamn well how development works, I managed my team for the better part of a year, and I've received nothing but praise concerning my reign.

I put plenty of thought into everything I've said - the fact is you clearly have more experience than me, and I can only generalize. Despite what people who've known me for a good bit may think, I'm not afraid to admit when I'm wrong or to shut up when I've been shown my place. Haven't I already bowed out of this whole thing?

[Tim_Rocks]

Originally Posted by Crow

I agree with Crono. The sidewalks are a tad too high.

Well, I'll make them a little lower, they are a bit higher than the previous road tiles.

Originally Posted by Supaman771

@Tim: Looks definitely better, if you take the time to convert it and fix the errors, I see no reason why NOT to use it.

I already did all that last night, do you see more errors or something?

Originally Posted by salesman

tim, you rock

Thanks, I do my best.