New Shop Released

[ffcmike]

Is it a Hat Shop?
No.

Is it a Furniture Shop?
No.

It's a Quest!

A Christian's Shop task has been released.
As usual simply talk to Master Li to begin this, the previous cutscene will occur and then something different should happen allowing you to progress.

The prize for this task is the *Bomb weapon, currently single bombs will be spawned occasionally via bush cutting, with there also being the option to purchase 5 bombs within Christian's Shop for 5 Gelat.
However in future we plan to implement a form of bomb creation that will be inter-twined with locations they are sold, maybe I can elaborate further on this in a separate thread some time.

A cut-scene within Graal Online Police Department will mark the cut-off point for this task.

Initially our plan was to release this as part of a combination of 2 tasks, but as it's been such a long time since the release of Zol's toilet we've decided to release this by itself, it's not on the same scale as Zol's toilet and may not take long to play through but this release does contain quite alot of detail.

[Rufus]

I like that you're focusing on "content density" and making sure all of the insides have some focus point, but these quests seem to be running in a very linear direction.

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by Rufus

I like that you're focusing on "content density" and making sure all of the insides have some focus point, but these quests seem to be running in a very linear direction.

So far yes, but after the main chain of questing within Graal City is complete we will eventually focus on side-quests independent from the main chain.

[Door]

wow how about using spoiler tags Thor? I feel no desire to play the quest now that I know exactly what it is from start to end. gj this is going right up on my list of worst spoilers, among "He's actually dead" and "Leia is the princess"

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by ffcmike

So far yes, but after the main chain of questing within Graal City is complete we will eventually focus on side-quests independent from the main chain.

I assume the collection of little quests that you're adding in Graal City are supposed to act like an interactive tutorial and introduction. I think you can achieve this without having to assign each quest. IMO you should just have Master Li say something like, "As you're still new to this, go see if you can build some experience in the city, there's many people who could use the help." and then the player goes off and triggers their own quest events. With that you don't feel like you're just following the same go here, come back, okay go here, okay come back path. You build your own experience on your own terms, then go back and declare you're ready to be the next Hokage.

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by Rufus

I assume the collection of little quests that you're adding in Graal City are supposed to act like an interactive tutorial and introduction. I think you can achieve this without having to assign each quest. IMO you should just have Master Li say something like, "As you're still new to this, go see if you can build some experience in the city, there's many people who could use the help." and then the player goes off and triggers their own quest events. With that you don't feel like you're just following the same go here, come back, okay go here, okay come back path. You build your own experience on your own terms, then go back and declare you're ready to be the next Hokage.

It would be possible to add a required amount of complete side-tasks in order to progress through the main chain at a later time.

[WhiteDragon]

Originally Posted by Rufus

I assume the collection of little quests that you're adding in Graal City are supposed to act like an interactive tutorial and introduction. I think you can achieve this without having to assign each quest. IMO you should just have Master Li say something like, "As you're still new to this, go see if you can build some experience in the city, there's many people who could use the help." and then the player goes off and triggers their own quest events. With that you don't feel like you're just following the same go here, come back, okay go here, okay come back path. You build your own experience on your own terms, then go back and declare you're ready to be the next Hokage.

Main problem here is that most of the new players (i.e., from iPhone, never played any good Zelda game) tend to have trouble without some hand holding.

Once the various techniques and such are learned from these first few quests, we do plan on branching out quests where you are more on your own with less direction, harder puzzles, and trickier tricks required to beat the quests. Believe it.

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by WhiteDragon

Main problem here is that most of the new players (i.e., from iPhone, never played any good Zelda game) tend to have trouble without some hand holding.

Once the various techniques and such are learned from these first few quests, we do plan on branching out quests where you are more on your own with less direction, harder puzzles, and trickier tricks required to beat the quests. Believe it.

I think you're underestimating the playerbase a little. I've recently been playing on Twilight Princess and it throws things like this at you. You know, with it being a Zelda game, that if they are keeping you in the place you're at there's something for you to do in it. That's not just what happens on Zelda but everytime you're playing a real game. It's just never like that on Graal.

That aside, don't you think the iPhone players are going to be going into these places themselves anyway? If they are new players they ARE going to enter the bank, they ARE going to enter the shop. That's just what people do lol. Throw in a big cutscene when you enter and you'll know that you've got something to do in this place.

[WhiteDragon]

Originally Posted by Rufus

I think you're underestimating the playerbase a little. I've recently been playing on Twilight Princess and it throws things like this at you. You know, with it being a Zelda game, that if they are keeping you in the place you're at there's something for you to do in it. That's not just what happens on Zelda but everytime you're playing a real game. It's just never like that on Graal.

We are intentionally working with the "lowest common denominator" a little here. We do keep an eye on people when they login and try to do these quests, and if someone can't figure something out, they log off immediately and never come back.

In fact, this sort of stuff never happening on Graal is a really good reason to try and ween people into it rather than expect a lot from the start (since other Graal players are our main playerbase, not experienced gamers). Imo, the first few quests being a little predictable is better than frustrating players.

Originally Posted by Rufus

That aside, don't you think the iPhone players are going to be going into these places themselves anyway? If they are new players they ARE going to enter the bank, they ARE going to enter the shop. That's just what people do lol. Throw in a big cutscene when you enter and you'll know that you've got something to do in this place.

I agree, and this is how the other quests will be done. We have just decided to keep the primary chain of quests in Graal City linear and haven't developed others yet.

[Demisis_P2P]

Originally Posted by Door

"He's actually dead"

Oh great, thanks for ruining Weekend at Bernie's for me. Jerkwad.

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by WhiteDragon

We are intentionally working with the "lowest common denominator" a little here. We do keep an eye on people when they login and try to do these quests, and if someone can't figure something out, they log off immediately and never come back.

In fact, this sort of stuff never happening on Graal is a really good reason to try and ween people into it rather than expect a lot from the start (since other Graal players are our main playerbase, not experienced gamers). Imo, the first few quests being a little predictable is better than frustrating players.

Providing direction doesn't mean you need to spoon feed players, and I find the concept of going to and from Master Li to be incredibly monotonous and boring. As someone who just enjoys exploring it puts me off, and these tasks just feel like a barrier rather than something that should and could be fun. That is not because I've played Graal for a while now; the quests don't seem to focus on core Graal principles. It's because these tasks are pushed onto you, it's too assertive. That is why I suggested what I did, and what I did post doesn't remove the actual linearity of the tasks, it just disguises it.

I feel that you're just creating excuses for your current execution, but I don't mind, it's up to the development team at the end of the day. I just think it's a waste of something that could be otherwise fun to explore and initiate. I don't care if that's something you're doing in the future, I think it's too much at the present. I'll stop ****ting up the thread though, the idea is there, though it's clearly not worth much

[WhiteDragon]

Originally Posted by Rufus

post

I'm not entirely sure how this was a response to my post.

People do enjoy our quests. Not everyone does, but the majority which we targeted do. However, you are in the minority (experienced gamer and game developer/planner).

As people get used to questing and more complex game play, we do intend on ramping up the questing layout and each quest's difficulty, hopefully making it enjoyable for everyone.


Basically: yes, we as a development team, do need to make calls about our audience and the resulting quest experience; but, you, personally definitely don't fall into our currently targeted group. Nevertheless, the quests are in general still enjoyable (I think so at least), and hopefully after this initial quest chain, the quests will be fun and challenging for you as well.

[gravator]

I did enjoy the quests so far, since some new ideas were added it took me a few minutes to figure them out properly and i was very satisfied with the effort put into their design.


UN has their quests all over the place, finding one or two of them can be a chore, and with very little to do while looking for all of them it gets downright boring, Classic is mild in comparison and should not be though of as a chore right now, there is sure to be much more of the overworld to explore later, as well as any large inside areas or quests.

[Luda]

*yawn*

[Crono]

stopped doing it because as usual it was annoying and had no sense of intuition or design

first was the dreaded rats, seriously the single most annoying thing ive ever had to face on graal. i kill them and started playing with the ladder. after killing the bees i starting tossing the TNT and switch around. they would disappear or break or whatever. cool.

then the rats respawned. and i died. and gg