Tidbits!

[zell12]

Its not faster when it takes over a year and a half to make something. -_-Val was never private before, and generates 80 people at its peak. The levels and scripts aren't the best, but people enjoy it.
And there are also servers that generate alot of people now and never were private before.
Anyway, i'm not talking about this no more. You argue too much.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by zell12
Its not faster when it takes over a year and a half to make something. -_-Val was never private before, and generates 80 people at its peak. The levels and scripts aren't the best, but people enjoy it.

Irrelevant. Limiting development options isn't going to improve the server - anybody with half a brain can see that.

[zell12]

Kai, don't be dumb and look at what my point is. The servers up now that never had no time on private are fine and generate alot of people. So the new servers don't need that extra god damn year being private.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by zell12
Kai, don't be dumb and look at what my point is. The servers up now that never had no time on private are fine and generate alot of people. So the new servers don't need that extra god damn year being private.

'Need' is a different thing to 'would benefit from'. Servers that have extra time in the private stage have a better shot at high quality.

[G_yoshi]

Originally posted by zell12
It shouldn't be difficult to create scripts offline if you know how. Then test them online at a server like everyone else did. Faheria, Oasis, DK, and the other servers deserve no special treatment. If the servers up now got this far without special private server **** then so can Oasis. I don't care you think your a god, or if you think koni is your demi, Oasis isn't special.

It may not be difficult creating them offline. However, things done offline do not always work the same way online.

::mutters about his chat NPC...::

*Edit*

Also note, that you are using a communistic/socialist point of view. Yeah, all the servers have good potential if and only if the staff are willing to work hard for it. Bringing down playerworlds that have a much higher potential than average just so everyone feels good about it or that its all equal isn't a good way to make everyone happy. All that does is discourage people from wanting to support Graal if they can't use thier abilities and resources to thier maximum.

[konidias]

I agree with Kai and Gyoshi here... The playerworlds that are currently online, never followed these rules. The current playerworlds are mostly old playerworlds that have been around a really long time. But let's take Era as an example, as it's new, and seemed to go under these rules. Era comes out, I go on, and I get bored in 15 minutes. Then a week later, it gets reset due to bugs. Now just recently both Angel and Delph have quit working for Era. Era is now in the hands of a person that will probably further destroy it. The fact that it averages over 70+ people throughout the day has no relevance. The server has guns, it has gangs, and it has no applied rules. So it attracts people via other methods.

Oasis on the other hand, is being developed online. Right now Falados is in the middle of scripting enemies for Oasis. That would be HELL to script offline, but easy to do it with a private server. As Kaimetsu has said already, it's just going to inconvenience me and Falados if we have to do everything offline. Surely I sound arrogant saying that Oasis deserves more private time than most playerworlds, but face it, it's pretty much true. Others might be putting forth effort, but they still have the same old Graal graphics, the same ideas that have been done over and over, and the same types of quests and so on and so forth. If you don't believe me, then look at every playerworld review from the last 6 months.

About the level thing. It's ridiculous. MoonGod, you're saying that if somebody makes 1 level that is better than most playerworlds, that they must make 199 more of them? WHY? If the level is already better than most pw's, what is the point? You're just looking at quantity over quality. A 200 level limit isn't going to make a playerworld any better. What's to stop someone from submitting 200 levels of complete crap?

Kaimetsu is right. Stefan should back playerworlds that he thinks stand a better chance at succeeding. Equality should not even be a factor here.

edit: Put it this way. Did 2k2 only have 2 weeks of time to develop itself online? Oh wait, that's a trick question, because it's STILL being developed online. Maybe we should make Stefan have 2 weeks to complete it or he will have to work on it offline. Don't say "but stefan is staff of the game!" if you want it to be "even stefan" then all servers would only get 2 weeks of private server time. If Oasis is being watched over by Stefan, doesn't it sort of make it his project as well?

[Darlene159]

Ok, you know what I see?
I see the classic servers being a thing of the past.
One reason is: I see 99% of the good staff working for gold servers
Staff also leave PW's that they are working on to go help someone make a new "cool" server offline, or they stay and are never there because they are busy with this other project...thus eventually classic servers will be a thing of the past, which might be the plan, I dont know
About the 200 levels thing...I believe there needs to be a standard, whether it be 50, 100, 150, 200, or 10...there needs to be an "at least" number of levels...
You cant just omit that rule, and let people send in however many levels they want, people will abuse that like crazy, mark my word...I have put everything I have into Npulse, just to watch it go nowhere because of lack of staff. I am getting better with scripting simply because I have had to do it, but I can do very little...we were going in a good forward pace, then we hired a scripter that messed up every single script online, now I have 2 scripters, one of which is fixing to quit to go to college and get a job, which is understandable, but leaves us with all these scripts which dont work, and one scripter to fix them, some have to be completely redone. there are lots of people with basic knowledge of scripting and level making, but very few since p2p with advanced knowledge that arent working for stefan or the gold servers...
Then we have to compete with pw's like Era, and UN who from what I have seen dont care much about the rules..Who wouldnt rather play there? I say this from what I have seen when on the PW's.
We run Npulse following the rules that are set, therefore we dont draw alot of players, but most of the players we have are decent kids and adults, and we have fun...but they get bored.
There is no solution, and I see it getting worse in the future

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by Darlene159
There is no solution

The solution is places like Oasis. Places with talented workers and a firm vision and the innovation necessary to revolutionise the standard of Graal servers. I'm sorry to say it, but N-Pulse is low-quality. It's nice as a nostalgia piece or some kind of quirky community thing maybe, but it's not the way forward. If Graal wants to make progress then it needs to channel all its resources into new and promising projects like Oasis.

[Darlene159]

Originally posted by Kaimetsu


The solution is places like Oasis. Places with talented workers and a firm vision and the innovation necessary to revolutionise the standard of Graal servers. I'm sorry to say it, but N-Pulse is low-quality. It's nice as a nostalgia piece or some kind of quirky community thing maybe, but it's not the way forward. If Graal wants to make progress then it needs to channel all its resources into new and promising projects like Oasis.

You missed the whole damn point of my thread...the staff isnt there to work on classic servers, that was the point..The solution you speak of proves my point, that classic servers are being pushed out

[tlf288]

Originally posted by Darlene159


classic servers are being pushed out

I don't see the downside to this. If all servers were risen to gold quality what is the bad side?

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by Darlene159
You missed the whole damn point of my thread...the staff isnt there to work on classic servers, that was the point..The solution you speak of proves my point, that classic servers are being pushed out

And you missed my point. Specifically: This is a good thing.

[Darlene159]

Originally posted by tlf288


I don't see the downside to this. If all servers were risen to gold quality what is the bad side?

the downside is there sre people such as myself that dont much care for the gold server stuff

And you missed my point. Specifically: This is a good thing.

Not in everyones eyes, it isnt...you cant speak for everyone

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by Darlene159
the downside is there sre people such as myself that dont much care for the gold server stuff

And nobody does anything to harm them. All Oasis seeks to do is provide a superior alternative for the players of servers like N-Pulse, and that's hardly unfair. The unfairness would be in restricting them to sub-standard worlds.

Not in everyones eyes, it isnt...you cant speak for everyone

And I don't intend to. I'm talking from Graal's perspective, since Graal is the one that decides who gets private servers.

[JrTerrorist]

Am I the only one noticing Kai and Moonie argue a lot? -.-

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by JrTerrorist
Am I the only one noticing Kai and Moonie argue a lot? -.-

Still, it's on-topic and mostly bereft of name-calling. It's perfectly valid.

[tlf288]

Originally posted by Darlene159


the downside is there sre people such as myself that dont much care for the gold server stuff

Wait wait wait...

Your saying you "dont much care for" quality servers? Why keep up with the same ole' servers that are mediokre? I don't see your point, care to expand?

[JrTerrorist]

I play graal for the players, not the servers.

Who cares for 3d terrain when you can sit back on NP and laugh at new players?

[G_yoshi]

Originally posted by JrTerrorist
I play graal for the players, not the servers.

Who cares for 3d terrain when you can sit back on NP and laugh at new players?

Unfortunate for you then because new players will stop coming if there isn't something there that will absolutely capture thier interest(s). The majority of Graal is under 18 years of age thus no access to credit cards. Parents aren't going to just fork over money for something that doesn't look very much worth thier time. If Graal does not progress in quality then the chances of new players coming in will dwindle to nothing. As much as I like small communities, that can hurt the chances of players whose talent(s) can be used to thier highest in developing new worlds or continuing work and development for existing worlds.

Graal, in my opinion, is quite in need of very talented graphic artists. This is not to mean that we don't have them already because we do just not enough. Same thing with scriptors. Graal has many good scriptors such as Kaimetsu, but more are needed to help lighten the load for many and to increase speed in development stages. Yeah, a lot of them do work for the gold servers which shouldn't too surprising that they probably find the opportunities there are much more yeilding than some of the"off-the-shelf" PWs. Its that thing of 'what's in it for me?' that determines where people go. Typically, most players are only concerned with getting an RC for boasting reasons so that's what's in it for them.

[tlf288]

This is why unixmad needs to higher some staff, 4-5 would be enough. That go round helping the PW's with scripting\GFX\levels. These people wouldn't do all the work but help out when neccesary.

[JrTerrorist]

Question..

What do "Global GFX" people do anyways..?

O_o

[Brad]

Originally posted by JrTerrorist
Question..

What do "Global GFX" people do anyways..?

O_o

Alot of things.

Some make graphics for classic, some for 2k2, and others like me go server to server looking for illegal gfx.

[Darlene159]

Originally posted by tlf288


Wait wait wait...

Your saying you "dont much care for" quality servers? Why keep up with the same ole' servers that are mediokre? I don't see your point, care to expand?

I am refering to the different bodies, fighting system, and terrain...not everyone cares for that

And nobody does anything to harm them. All Oasis seeks to do is seek a superior alternative for the players of servers like N-Pulse, and that's hardly unfair. The unfairness would be in restricting them to sub-standard worlds.

I wasnt only refering to oasis, It appears to me that stefan and unixmad are going down the line to get rid of classic servers, along with other people...but the classic servers shouldnt be made to feel like crap because they are classic servers..anyone with a brain can see where the road is leading...with people like you saying the classic servers are "sub standard servers" alot of us are people working very hard to keep these servers going, even though it doesnt seem worth it anymore

[JrTerrorist]

<3 for NP and all classic servers

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by Darlene159
I am refering to the different bodies, fighting system, and terrain...not everyone cares for that

The majority seem to prefer it. Why should Graal waste resources trying to appease the minority? As a server manager you should understand the need to tailor to a specific audience.

I wasnt only refering to oasis, It appears to me that stefan and unixmad are going down the line to get rid of classic servers, along with other people...but the classic servers shouldnt be made to feel like crap because they are classic servers..anyone with a brain can see where the road is leading...with people like you saying the classic servers are "sub standard servers" alot of us are people working very hard to keep these servers going, even though it doesnt seem worth it anymore

It doesn't matter how hard you work on them. The classic servers are sub-standard. They're mostly pitiful in terms of coding and game design. What is wrong with Graal wanting to get rid of them? Why would they want to waste resources on dead weight like N-Pulse when all it really does is make the game look bad?

[tlf288]

Originally posted by Kaimetsu


The majority seem to prefer it. Why should Graal waste resources trying to appease the minority? As a server manager you should understand the need to tailor to a specific audience.

This couldn't be said better. Besides, once all the servers have their own new body system them the old bodie styles will just be a bad memory. I feel that this year in Graal will show alot of progress in forgetting the old style in things and developing brand new ideas.

[Darlene159]

Originally posted by Kaimetsu


The majority seem to prefer it. Why should Graal waste resources trying to appease the minority? As a server manager you should understand the need to tailor to a specific audience.



It doesn't matter how hard you work on them. The classic servers are sub-standard. They're mostly pitiful in terms of coding and game design. What is wrong with Graal wanting to get rid of them? Why would they want to waste resources on dead weight like N-Pulse when all it really does is make the game look bad?

fine then, you refuse to get the whole meaning of my posts, I love npulse, and have worked hard on it...for someone to keep saying things like "it is dead weight" "it is substandard" "it is pitiful", and I do know that you arent only talking about npulse, but what I say, I say for all the classic servers
You dont get it, I see what you are saying, but you dont see what I am saying...
I guess you would have to be responsible or manage a server for awhile to understand what I mean, maybe that's why you dont, I dont know, but it doesnt matter

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by Darlene159
fine then, you refuse to get the whole meaning of my posts

Yes I do, but things like this:

I love npulse, and have worked hard on it...

Are completely irrelevant. Old servers shouldn't be kept up just because their owners love them. This is about more than just a few people.

[konidias]

Originally posted by Darlene159


fine then, you refuse to get the whole meaning of my posts, I love npulse, and have worked hard on it...for someone to keep saying things like "it is dead weight" "it is substandard" "it is pitiful", and I do know that you arent only talking about npulse, but what I say, I say for all the classic servers
You dont get it, I see what you are saying, but you dont see what I am saying...
I guess you would have to be responsible or manage a server for awhile to understand what I mean, maybe that's why you dont, I dont know, but it doesnt matter

We just don't need a dozen classic playerworlds anymore. I agree that keeping touch with the old style is nice, but the fact of the matter is, it's silly to keep servers up that don't average a large amount of players a day. Sure you love your playerworld and you might have people that enjoy playing there, but it's not enough. In the long run, I feel the pw payment thing is going to be targeted directly at playerworlds like yours, as they are cared about more by the owners then by the players.

[Boozy_Bravo]

Well, I don't believe that there is anything wrong with Graal Online supporting Classic worlds, but supporting the ones that are of very poor quality. The problem though, is that the vast majority, if not all, of these worlds are poorly designed and maintained in nearly every manner imaginable. I do believe it is possible to produce a world that contains innovative and unique content, yet also maintain a fairly large sense of nostalgia by using the original tiles/bodies/sprites/etc. Unfortunately, I don’t think that’s something I’ve ever seen, and sadly, that’s why there must be an end to the Classic worlds. It seems that everyone that’s truly serious about creating a world of great caliber chooses to create just about everything from scratch, leaving the Classic worlds to be developed by your average “WANNA MAKE A PW?!” player.

As for the playerworlds up now, I really don’t know quite what to say. I say this with no offense intended to the staff/managers of these worlds, but all they do is give off a bad impression of Graal to anyone interested in buying a Gold/VIP account. If all I saw of Graal were the playerworlds up, I’d have absolutely no interest in purchasing a Gold/VIP account because I’d assume that they were just as unorganized and loosely pieced together as the Classic ones. Something should be done, and while it’d be preferable for the Playerworld Management to give a deadline for the current worlds to up the quality to today’s standards, I don’t believe that any of them have the talent to do so.

[zell12]

Classic players want classic style levels, quests and such. They want to run around and kill hundreds of baddies in a room to get something, not sure why. But it keeps them happy. Alot of people I talked to say they hate these high tech spiffy servers.

[tlf288]

Originally posted by zell12
Alot of people I talked to say they hate these high tech spiffy servers.

I'be noticed that too. I still can't figure out why, maybe they're afraid of change?

[Darlene159]

Originally posted by zell12
Classic players want classic style levels, quests and such. They want to run around and kill hundreds of baddies in a room to get something, not sure why. But it keeps them happy. Alot of people I talked to say they hate these high tech spiffy servers.

That is exactly the point I was trying to make, though noone believes me.

We just don't need a dozen classic playerworlds anymore. I agree that keeping touch with the old style is nice, but the fact of the matter is, it's silly to keep servers up that don't average a large amount of players a day. Sure you love your playerworld and you might have people that enjoy playing there, but it's not enough. In the long run, I feel the pw payment thing is going to be targeted directly at playerworlds like yours, as they are cared about more by the owners then by the players.

I agree with this, so many classic PW's up is what destroyed any hope for others, the reason why some of them dont get more numbers is because there are so many...how many do you see on 2002 on average? And how many do you see on the classic servers on average? And how many people do you think would be on 2 or 3 classic servers instead of how many there are?
Not everyone likes RPG's or RPG style games, and you cant say most prefer the gold servers either.
The PW thing is for PW's fixing to go up, not ones already up, that is what I was told.
Less classic PW's=more staff...plain and simple
Look how many are in the making.....
And if corruption was taken care of in certain PW's, and the servers were looked at, and staff looked at closely, a few of these high playercount servers would probably go down. I am not naming names, nor am I gonna bash anyone, but the fact of the matter is, the PW's are doing whatever they want right now because noone is watching them at all...from stolen graphics, to cussing constantly, to sexual harrassment (which is on the rise).
Why should they care when noone is watching, and noone cares.

[konidias]

Current Playercount:

75 - Unholy Nation
46 - Atlantis
32 - Era
31 - Graal The Adventure
27 - Babylon
26 - Delteria
21 - Valikorlia

11 - Doomsday
09 - Maloria
09 - N-Pulse
04 - Graal2000
04- Shaded Legend
02 - Enigma Graal


It's 2pm Eastern time in the US so a lot of people are in school, but still... it's pretty clear that the servers from Doomsday down, just aren't averaging many players. Unholy Nation has like 8 times the amount of players that N-Pulse has there... It's not the fact that there are too many playerworlds... the amount doesn't matter, because people are attracted to the top 7 there. Otherwise, all the servers would have small equal amounts of players, but that's not really the case.

The total playercount for the bottom 6 servers is 39. That's about half the amount that the top server has by itself. Do you see a problem here?

[Darlene159]

Originally posted by konidias
Current Playercount:

75 - Unholy Nation
46 - Atlantis
32 - Era
31 - Graal The Adventure
27 - Babylon
26 - Delteria
21 - Valikorlia

11 - Doomsday
09 - Maloria
09 - N-Pulse
04 - Graal2000
04- Shaded Legend
02 - Enigma Graal


It's 2pm Eastern time in the US so a lot of people are in school, but still... it's pretty clear that the servers from Doomsday down, just aren't averaging many players. Unholy Nation has like 8 times the amount of players that N-Pulse has there... It's not the fact that there are too many playerworlds... the amount doesn't matter, because people are attracted to the top 7 there. Otherwise, all the servers would have small equal amounts of players, but that's not really the case.

The total playercount for the bottom 6 servers is 39. That's about half the amount that the top server has by itself. Do you see a problem here?

I have one thing to say about UN...make them enforce the rules, then see what happens...alot of people have told me that they actually dont like UN but can do pretty much what they want there, I have had soooo many people come to npulse and break rules, get warned, jailed, or banned, then say "lets go to UN, or Valokorlia" Do you see a problem here? Of course not because it doesnt seem to matter to anyone as long as they bring in the players
Doomsday=enforces the rules like we do almost, hard to find good staff
Maloria=has come up in numbers, but has struggled because of the way it was when it was put up...hard to find good staff
Graal2000=pretty obvious
Shaded Legend=This is a very nice PW, not sure why it is so low in numbers
Enigma=not sure either

Atlantis has high player count right now because of the time difference, I believe it is night time there
UN has a high player count cause the rules arent enforced
Era, same as UN, and it is different
Graal the Adventure, is a great server, numbers are dropping though
Babylon and Delteria, havent played much so I dont know
Valokorlia, I have noticed they dont seem to care about the rules either except for those they have made, but is an RPG with the graal classic feel

That is 13 PW's, not counting Gold servers for people to choose from, and for staff to be spread out onto
What I typed about the servers is what I have seen while playing, not just an assumption...PW reviewers need to get off their butts and watch these PW's, or someone needs to do something...As a parent, I certainly wouldnt pay for my child to play if I say what goes on.........

[zell12]

I think its impossable to please everyone, but anyway, classic players want classic style levels. It's all there is too it.

Un doesn't enforce rules, and they should. I think each server should be assigned a supervisor to look over thinks in RC and stuff and report back on the things they see to Toran and Nemesis.

[syltburk]

0.o big update will come on Graal2001 soon

[G_yoshi]

Originally posted by Darlene159


That is exactly the point I was trying to make, though noone believes me.



I agree with this, so many classic PW's up is what destroyed any hope for others, the reason why some of them dont get more numbers is because there are so many...how many do you see on 2002 on average? And how many do you see on the classic servers on average? And how many people do you think would be on 2 or 3 classic servers instead of how many there are?
Not everyone likes RPG's or RPG style games, and you cant say most prefer the gold servers either.
The PW thing is for PW's fixing to go up, not ones already up, that is what I was told.
Less classic PW's=more staff...plain and simple
Look how many are in the making.....
And if corruption was taken care of in certain PW's, and the servers were looked at, and staff looked at closely, a few of these high playercount servers would probably go down. I am not naming names, nor am I gonna bash anyone, but the fact of the matter is, the PW's are doing whatever they want right now because noone is watching them at all...from stolen graphics, to cussing constantly, to sexual harrassment (which is on the rise).
Why should they care when noone is watching, and noone cares.

You'll fit in quite well with Googi and anyone else that is similar. Yeah, no one likes change, but it has to happen. Holding on to the nostalgia of the past will only hurt you when the realization comes that it doesn't matter. The past is the past. It's dead. Give up on it. It's time we all forge a new road before us. Especially if you want to see more players on your server Although I've said it before and someone else brought it up and despite the fact that I'm needlessly repeating myself, Graal could not maintain a positive position in market at this point in time. And this is because of people like you who drag around the past with you all the time. There's nothing wrong with keeping some nostalgia, but it would be very hard for Cyberjouers to put Graal on tangible media, box it up, and sell it in stores. They'd probably wind up spending more money on that than bringing in any kind of return.

Yes, there are players attracted by the appearance of the classic servers. However, there could be even more players brought in with higher quality servers that could possibly contain multi-talented people. I really would like to be able to walk into someplace like WalMart or EB and see a box on the shelf with the name Graal on it. I'd be even more excited to see many people actually purchasing it. But that won't happen if the present situation with playerworlds persist. And at this point, you're either pushing forward, or hindering behind. Which do you want to be? As for myself, I want to be one of the persons willing to push Graal forward. There is so much potential that a lot of us see right past it. Which comes back to the "what's in it for me?" thing. If you really and truely want to see Graal become more successful than it is now, then you'll do your part and help out. If not, well, I think we all know what that consequence will be

[G_yoshi]

Originally posted by zell12
Classic players want classic style levels, quests and such. They want to run around and kill hundreds of baddies in a room to get something, not sure why. But it keeps them happy. Alot of people I talked to say they hate these high tech spiffy servers.

By a lot you mean between 10-20 players, right? Sorry, that doesn't quite count as a majority

[JrTerrorist]

Player Count-
UN - 124
Era - 86
Val - 72
Classic - 70
Babylon - 54
Del - 49
Doomsday - 35
N-Pulse - 26
Maloria - 20
Shaded Legend - 15
Graal 2000 - 9
Atlantis - 7
Enigma - 7

[Milkdude99]

I really don't see the point of posting player counts since it will vary widely depending on what time of Day and what day it is. Npulse gets more players during the week and less on the weekend which is directly opposite of most servers.