Graal Training Course

HoudiniMan · #1 04-30-2004, 08:51 PM

I am proposing that the training option in the startup screen of the game be re-created.

It should teach new players not only the controls and basic properties of the game (like many servers' "newbie training courses") but also the general atmosphere of the game.

With UnholyNation at the top of the serverlist, most new players will go there first. The atmosphere there between players is very abbrasive and new players think this is how all of Graal acts. There are of course good people on UN, but there are also a lot of bad ones. If they learn to act like the bad people that insult each other constantly, they do this on other servers and parts of the community like the forums as well.

Therefore, my main suggestion is that in the new training course there should be a small storyline, with NPCs that provide you with instructions and information. These NPCs should have positive attitudes towards new players and not say anything crude or insulting about anybody.

Perhaps if new players were exposed to this friendly supportive attitude before playing the game for the first time they would come into the Graal community as positive contributors.

Discuss and comment here, please try to stay on topic, no flaming.

Also, no offense to UN players, it's a fine server. Just when a server has the highest ammount of players, they also have the most undesirable ones.

WanDaMan · #2 04-30-2004, 08:54 PM

A small server you mean?

HoudiniMan · #3 04-30-2004, 08:56 PM

No, when you start the game and there is a button called "Training"

WanDaMan · #4 04-30-2004, 08:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoudiniMan

No, when you start the game and there is a button called "Training"

Yes but offline, god i don't do levels do i

NeoJenova · #5 04-30-2004, 08:59 PM

Oh Wow, this gives me an idea for UN. Since a lot of new players to graal do log onto UN I see no reason why we couldn't make a more positive, and informative new player course aswell.

I also like HoudiniMan's idea.

HoudiniMan · #6 04-30-2004, 09:01 PM

Also you guys could make the newbie course more obvious, like a say2 popup when you first log on that tells you to go to it if you're new to graal, or something?

WanDaMan · #7 04-30-2004, 09:02 PM

Leave it to graal Neo, People don't allways go on Un

And yes, Over aim we talked about it (me and houdini). And yes I do believe what he has said should be done

haunter · #8 04-30-2004, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoudiniMan

Also you guys could make the newbie course more obvious, like a say2 popup when you first log on that tells you to go to it if you're new to graal, or something?

Or just force them to go through when they first log on...

Also, let us choose the start level for "training" if we want to!

(BTW shouldnt this be in future improvements or something?)

NeoJenova · #9 04-30-2004, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WanDaMan

Leave it to graal Neo, People don't allways go on Un

And yes, Over aim we talked about it (me and houdini). And yes I do believe what he has said should be done

I didn't say they always log onto UN. I said a lot do...

I don't think it would hurt to make our new player course better... would it?

HoudiniMan · #10 04-30-2004, 09:06 PM

I was also thinking we should make it mandatory once.

It could go in future improvements, but i really wanted the input of the community on this one. It will shape new players and give them their first taste of graal. It needs to be thoroughly discussed by all of us, so i put it in main forums.

WanDaMan · #11 04-30-2004, 09:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeoJenova

I didn't say they always log onto UN. I said a lot do...

I don't think it would hurt to make our new player course better... would it?

It wouldn't hurt at all, but there is just no point if one is going to be done. Eventhough it's online, keep it simple. I.E your start thing on UN, Why not relate it with UN and not the whole of graal like houdini is talking about

NeoJenova · #12 04-30-2004, 09:09 PM

That would be cool, if Stefan could change the new version so that the start button wasn't visible for new accounts until the training mode was completed.

NeoJenova · #13 04-30-2004, 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WanDaMan

It wouldn't hurt at all, but there is just no point if one is going to be done. Eventhough it's online, keep it simple. I.E your start thing on UN, Why not relate it with UN and not the whole of graal like houdini is talking about

UN really has nothing different from what graal originally is. It is a basic classical type of server for the most part.

EDIT: Sorry about the double post.

ETD · #14 04-30-2004, 09:19 PM

there should be one offline world that's GK like, and another classic one....

the GK one would explain GK, and the classic one would explain things about classic servers

HoudiniMan · #15 04-30-2004, 09:21 PM

GK doesn't really need any extra explaining as long as they cover inventory...

It's just more involved than most servers...

ETD · #16 04-30-2004, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoudiniMan

GK doesn't really need any extra explaining as long as they cover inventory...

It's just more involved than most servers...

I logged on, and had no clue what to do
o.o
unless you have someone explaining it, it's really hard to figure out how things work... I still haven't even made it off the start island yet
lol

Andy0687 · #17 04-30-2004, 10:12 PM

o_O;

Skimmed but here is what i think

No Just allow players on if they want, completing the training mission would be a waste of time, and npcs on a fake world, of offline play, are not how people online are. The new players will just be diluted to the real whole of the graal community when they log on, its best to just let them experince it and adapt in the way they want.

ETD · #18 04-30-2004, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy0687

Just allow players on if they want

no-one said that it would be manditory to do it before being able to play online...

it would just be optional for new players...

I know a lot of new players used to use the classic 'training' levels before going online, and it helped them get used to the controls and stuff... heck, I remember doing the training area before logging on.

SSJ2_Gogeta · #19 04-30-2004, 11:23 PM

I think players should learn first hand how to play and interact, I think that learning about the interaction and community durring those first few days is what really got me in to the game.
After all, isn't that how we all learned ?

ETD · #20 05-01-2004, 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSJ2_Gogeta

I think players should learn first hand how to play and interact, I think that learning about the interaction and community durring those first few days is what really got me in to the game.
After all, isn't that how we all learned ?

Joining the Dragon Knights was what got me hooked

HoudiniMan · #21 05-01-2004, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy0687

o_O;
its best to just let them experince it and adapt in the way they want.

That experience is growing increasingly more abrasive and ugly.

The only people that will stick around eventually will be mean abrasive people.

SSJ2_Gogeta · #22 05-01-2004, 01:37 AM

There were mean people back in the day too, the people the would go "OMG ITS TEH ****EH LETS PK HIM 4056 TIMEZZ". Theres always going to be the "good" and the "bad" people. People can be "bad" to a certain degree, if they get to out of theres always the good ol' ban hammer.

TB3 · #23 05-01-2004, 02:07 AM

I made a re-vamp of the old tutorial levels along long time ago I may still have it does anyone want to maybe help me create a tutorial? The levels need re-vamping because they are like my first levels, I'll do a little re-vamping if anyone wants to help let me know

I'll post it if I can find it and it works
Kinda like what should be included in a classic tutorial and what should be included in a gkingdoms tutorial that can be shown offline

Andy0687 · #24 05-01-2004, 02:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ETD

no-one said that it would be manditory to do it before being able to play online...

it would just be optional for new players...

I believe NeoJenova suggested this, and i only skimmed the posts

Quote:

That experience is growing increasingly more abrasive and ugly.

The only people that will stick around eventually will be mean abrasive people.

Hard Skin or dont play at all.

People will be let down when they come online and the playerworlds are not what the tutorial promised

People team pking a newb on tags (2v1 or more v 1)
People being harsh rude and stealing items

Its all out there, and creating a little tutorial will not fix the problem

protagonist · #25 05-01-2004, 03:03 AM

It could also include common rules such as no profanity.

Dach · #26 05-01-2004, 06:50 AM

I just want a new com w/ XP so defining the file type with Graal actually works...

I say have the servers create better tutorials for their own servers. There is no guarantee that new players will play offline first, even if prompted. Plus, even though I played offline before online (AOL's fault for being over-complicated and not letting me sign on), I doubt many people will want to do so and will most likely not pay attention, or give up altogether.*

*Don't know how to prevent this on your server? Make the tutorial into a quest lumpy! :P

HoudiniMan · #27 05-01-2004, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy0687

Hard Skin or dont play at all.

The point isn't to prevent mean people. It's to prevent people thinking being mean is "cool". If they don't log in and see 20 people in a spar complex saying crude things and insulting each other they won't go "OH HOW FUN" and start doing it.

They'll be introduced to Graal for the first time in a nice atmosphere.

And face it all you nay-sayers. Everybody who has posted "people probably won't go to training" all said they had. A LOT of people do the training when they first come to Graal... It matters.

TB3 · #28 05-01-2004, 08:14 AM

I'm designing a begginers Classic quest / training course.
ill post some of it l8r i spent hours and hours on it tonight since my first post on it and now i need sleep i have to be at work @ 10 in 6 hours O-0

What do you think should be in the training?
I've allready covered the message / sign dialogues / bombs / maps / playerlist pms and such / unstick me / using chat window somewhat / toalls/ picking up objects / hiding under objects / somewhat throwing them/ gralats to rupees / and I'm almost done with bow and arrow / I'm even going into some mini quests within the training such as shooting targets / finding hidden switches
I have more planned thats just what ive done so far
Anyone want to create a "Kingdoms" training course? maybe incorporate them both and let the player decide which one to choose heheh
Gnight!

WanDaMan · #29 05-01-2004, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSJ2_Gogeta

I think players should learn first hand how to play and interact, I think that learning about the interaction and community durring those first few days is what really got me in to the game.
After all, isn't that how we all learned ?

So logging on to UN and get all the abuse from the players?

edit, tb3 add something about the baddys

Andy0687 · #30 05-01-2004, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoudiniMan

The point isn't to prevent mean people. It's to prevent people thinking being mean is "cool". If they don't log in and see 20 people in a spar complex saying crude things and insulting each other they won't go "OH HOW FUN" and start doing it.

Why not? people want other graalians to accept them, if being nice isnt the thing to do, they will easily defect.

Quote:

They'll be introduced to Graal for the first time in a nice atmosphere.

Or not, NPCs != Players; a training mission is not a true introduction to what it is really like. What about the players who will be diluded?

"Wtf y u steal my stuff, the people on training didnt do it, I HAET U!!!"

I think poitential players would quit playing quicker if everything promised dosent exist.

Quote:

And face it all you nay-sayers. Everybody who has posted "people probably won't go to training" all said they had. A LOT of people do the training when they first come to Graal... It matters.

I didnt. I went straight to EL

HoudiniMan · #31 05-01-2004, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy0687

Why not? people want other graalians to accept them, if being nice isnt the thing to do, they will easily defect.

Because some people are naturally jerks? You can't stop them all.

Quote:

Or not, NPCs != Players; a training mission is not a true introduction to what it is really like. What about the players who will be diluded?
"Wtf y u steal my stuff, the people on training didnt do it, I HAET U!!!"
I think poitential players would quit playing quicker if everything promised dosent exist.

You seem to be having trouble getting this.
Let's put it in an example:

You have a toddler and you take him to day care for the first time.

When you get there the caretakers are nice and polite and nuturing to him, and he goes in feeling like he is safe and in a nice place.

Or. Some other stupid little kid throws a block in his face when he gets there, and he gets mad and vengeful.

EVEN IF that stupid kid threw the block AFTER the caretakers comforted him, the toddler would see that this is WRONG. He would know that not everybody throws blocks, and it's not nice to throw blocks!

Do you see the difference?
Even if they get their items or whatever stolen once, they will know it's not right to scam people, and they will know not to allow it to happen again.

Quote:

I didnt. I went straight to EL

Good for you.
I said a lot of people do the training, I didn't say ALL do.
Anything being in there is more helpful that what's in there now, practically nothing.

zs0 · #32 05-01-2004, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoudiniMan

No, when you start the game and there is a button called "Training"

That doesn't do anything for the ****s..

Andy0687 · #33 05-01-2004, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoudiniMan

You seem to be having trouble getting this.

Lol I understand just fine, mabye you dont?
The people who get this supposed "Block" thrown at them, will be wanting to fight back, to get back at the person somehow, regardless if it is the right thing to do or not.

Quote:

Even if they get their items or whatever stolen once, they will know it's not right to scam people,

I think people already know its not right and immoral, but with i believe stefan saying there is no rule aginst it (correct me if im wrong k, ive seen some people mention this before) then there is really no boundry to doing it, so why wouldnt they join in?

Quote:

I said a lot of people do the training, I didn't say ALL do.

Quote:

And face it all you nay-sayers. Everybody who has posted "people probably won't go to training" all said they had.

Just letting you know someone who is not for this, didnt do the training, is all.

Dach · #34 05-02-2004, 06:20 AM

Well, we do need an actual tutorial instead of the 2k2 preview

hehe, need to tell people how to use pms and toalls, and explain the difference, If I had a nickel for all the people who respond to mass messages in toalls, I'd have... alot of nickels (ironic part: I did it too as a new-B, "toall: what are the grey bubbles at the bottom of the screen?")

TB3 · #35 05-02-2004, 07:30 AM

Gah, im having trouble using strings and flags offline its like they dont work at all O_o
Im used to working with stuff online.... how in gods name do you make a flag offline such as how many targets are left that will work in more than 1 level when it is decreased and can be read by everything in level (OFFLINE) ?? O_o
Its probably a realy simple answer that I have just overlooked but this thing is being a pain ....
client.var isnt working local.blah isnt working. .... regular-=1 isnt working and its starting to get old.
See I have targets around the levels and you shoot them and a counter decreases... its not working.... gah need sleep

edit* its like all the flags act like current level flags no matter what O_o

D1ce2 · #36 05-02-2004, 08:25 AM

I like the idea to be honest.

HoudiniMan · #37 05-02-2004, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy0687

Junk.

The point isn't that they wouldn't be offended. They just wouldn't think it was the norm. And wouldn't be as drawn to do it.

You're talking about a naturally bad person. I'm talking about the other 75% of people who aren't hateful and evil until they're put amongst others who are.

You also didn't address the point that anything is better than nothing.
What can it possibly hurt? So maybe it won't help a slim percentage. It will still help people. Even if it only helps 1 person isn't it still worth it? It's not like it's costing us anything.

HoudiniMan · #38 05-02-2004, 09:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TB3

Gah, im having trouble using strings and flags offline its like they dont work at all O_o
Im used to working with stuff online.... how in gods name do you make a flag offline such as how many targets are left that will work in more than 1 level when it is decreased and can be read by everything in level (OFFLINE) ?? O_o
Its probably a realy simple answer that I have just overlooked but this thing is being a pain ....
client.var isnt working local.blah isnt working. .... regular-=1 isnt working and its starting to get old.
See I have targets around the levels and you shoot them and a counter decreases... its not working.... gah need sleep

edit* its like all the flags act like current level flags no matter what O_o

You can't just set a player flag?

Targets==2;
Targets-=1; ?

Have the counter read the player flag?

(test it out using the flags list, so you know if it's the flags or the script or what)

TB3 · #39 05-02-2004, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoudiniMan

You can't just set a player flag?

Targets==2;
Targets-=1; ?

Have the counter read the player flag?

(test it out using the flags list, so you know if it's the flags or the script or what)

Nope its level specific and driving me nutz O_o
Targets = 4 in one level then i hit them in another and it equals 2 because its not accumulative
String handling is a whole lot different from online O_o and im not used to it

Dach · #40 05-02-2004, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TB3

Gah, im having trouble using strings and flags offline its like they dont work at all O_o
Im used to working with stuff online.... how in gods name do you make a flag offline such as how many targets are left that will work in more than 1 level when it is decreased and can be read by everything in level (OFFLINE) ?? O_o
Its probably a realy simple answer that I have just overlooked but this thing is being a pain ....
client.var isnt working local.blah isnt working. .... regular-=1 isnt working and its starting to get old.
See I have targets around the levels and you shoot them and a counter decreases... its not working.... gah need sleep

edit* its like all the flags act like current level flags no matter what O_o

thems ain't flags, buddy, thems variables

set a string for offline, client.vars don't work offline