Let's Bring Back

Brad · #1 02-27-2004, 05:49 AM

The members list. Noone really cares about post count anymore. Noone will ever be up with the Kamuiis and whatnots of the boards. Member board was always fun to see when people joined and the likes. Cmonnnn

zell12 · #2 02-27-2004, 07:10 AM

I agree with this.

ZanderX · #3 02-27-2004, 07:15 AM

I believe it was removed more for database-easing reasons than anything else.

SlikRick · #4 02-27-2004, 07:22 AM

Yea they should bring it back it was cooler XD

ZanderX · #5 02-27-2004, 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SlikRick
Yea they should bring it back it was cooler XD

You registered after it was removed.

SlikRick · #6 02-27-2004, 07:29 AM

This isn't the first gold account I have ever had

ZanderX · #7 02-27-2004, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by SlikRick
This isn't the first gold account I have ever had

I see. Well, that solves quite a few mysteries.

zell12 · #8 02-27-2004, 08:01 AM

Bring back the member list unixmad.

By the way, Steam has 51,659 registered users on its forums and uses the member list. So explain what you are talking about kamuii.

ZanderX · #9 02-27-2004, 08:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by zell12

By the way, Steam has 51,659 registered users on its forums and uses the member list. So explain what you are talking about kamuii.

Steam is also funded by a multimillion corporation with capital out the yin-yang and backing from a multinational global multimedia conglomerate. They have far more bandwidth, engineers, and people working for them than Graal ever has, meaning that they can handle a huge load more than Graal can. It's not like you just plug a server in and it's good to go forever.

zell12 · #10 02-27-2004, 08:10 AM

I realize that, but I am sure Graal has enough bandwidth to hold 3,500 members

ZanderX · #11 02-27-2004, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by zell12
I realize that, but I am sure Graal has enough bandwidth to hold 3,500 members

With possibly only one server to handle the database; or, much worse, part of a single server reserved for the database. vBulletin is terrible about managing its MySQL databases, and MySQL isn't exactly reliable to start with.

zell12 · #12 02-27-2004, 08:14 AM

Well, let Unixmad tell us why the member list is down. They just moved everything to faster computers or something didn't they?

SlikRick · #13 02-27-2004, 08:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ZanderX

I see. Well, that solves quite a few mysteries.

What mysteries would those be? O_o

WanDaMan · #14 02-27-2004, 10:07 AM

Bring it back, like it really matters?

Nidonemo · #15 02-27-2004, 11:16 AM

Or just remove the button, in a few days most will have forgotten about it. Ony the ones who used it frequently will really remember.

Python523 · #16 02-27-2004, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by zell12
Well, let Unixmad tell us why the member list is down. They just moved everything to faster computers or something didn't they?

Just don't counter-argue if you don't know anythign about how MySQL works, how VBulletin uses it, and how server load works =/

Loriel · #17 02-27-2004, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ZanderX
vBulletin is terrible about managing its MySQL databases, and MySQL isn't exactly reliable to start with.

So, we shall write a better forum using Insert Superior SQL Server Here instead of MySQL and we are set?

R0bin · #18 02-27-2004, 02:53 PM

omg MSSQL.

Fear gates.

ZanderX · #19 02-27-2004, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Loriel

So, we shall write a better forum using Insert Superior SQL Server Here instead of MySQL and we are set?

I'd like to see a vBulletin-esque forum (same features, layout, etc.) with a Postgre-SQL or MSSQL backend; it'd certainly be more stable than vB is.

zell12 · #20 02-27-2004, 07:32 PM

I could really cares less what this is. All I know is that the website and forums were moved to faster computers therefore they should, as they did before, use the members list.

Myomoto · #21 02-27-2004, 08:40 PM

i agree bring back the members list :[

ZanderX · #22 02-28-2004, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by zell12
I could really cares less what this is. All I know is that the website and forums were moved to faster computers therefore they should, as they did before, use the members list.

It's not that simple.

zell12 · #23 02-28-2004, 05:30 AM

Wow shutup, I really don't care about your fancy terms or dodangs. It is a list of members, how much bandwidth could it take up?

ZanderX · #24 02-28-2004, 05:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by zell12
Wow shutup, I really don't care about your fancy terms or dodangs.

Too bad, don't talk about them or come into a thread that can remotely reference them if you don't care about them.

Quote:

Originally posted by zell12
It is a list of members, how much bandwidth could it take up?

Quite a bit of bandwidth, database space and server load. Here's some simple math.

Let's say that we have...five hundred active users here. That's really kind of stretching it but it's just an estimate. So, we'll say that the number of active users is u.

Next, we have the size of the member list in the average vBulletin list size of 10 names per viewing. We'll call that chunk of people c and say that, as a rough estimate, it's 100kb.

Now, let's say that the average forum user accesses an enabled member list five times a day and looks through five sets of user lists to find whoever they're looking for. So, now we have an equation.

u*5*c*5.

Which comes out to...

500*5*100*5. But you have to do it in pieces.

So you have roughly 2500 calls for the database right there, which is quite a few in itself.

And each of those calls is 100kb, meaning that right there you've just pushed 250,000kb of data, and then you have to factor in that each user looks through the list 5 times.

The end result is about 1.25gb of bandwidth pushed in any given day and a heck of a lot of strain on the MySQL database.

And of course this is all generalizations and I'm not as acquainted with the kind of bandwidth vBulletin pushes anymore but it just serves to show you how much strain even a small forum like this can put on a webserver.

zell12 · #25 02-28-2004, 05:49 AM

I am sure that the servers can hold the strain of such a small number.

ZanderX · #26 02-28-2004, 05:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by zell12
I am sure that the servers can hold the strain of such a small number.

...

Okay, dude. I'm not going to bother explaining things to you if you don't understand how things fundamentally work.

1gb a day in bandwidth from a forum alone is quite a bit, and when you figure that the forum is probably sharing a box with at least one game server as well as more than likely the site itself things start to not only get very complicated but very clogged up. It's not only not a small number but there are so many possible factors.

As I said before, it's not like you just plug in a "faster computer" and everything works.

AlkarenHyralt · #27 02-28-2004, 05:50 AM

Oh sure bring it back.

If you want to lose the forums in exchange. Galen and I brought it down for database reasons due to complicstions with the MySQL tables.

It will not be put back up. It has very good reason to keep it down, in addition to the reasons Kamuii listed.

zell12 · #28 02-28-2004, 05:51 AM

So you're saying the members feature is useless because graalonline is too cheep to buy bandwidth to run the forums properly. I think I know why the forums are restricted to people who only upgraded now.

ZanderX · #29 02-28-2004, 05:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by zell12
So you're saying the members feature is useless because graalonline is too cheep to buy bandwidth to run the forums properly. I think I know why the forums are restricted to people who only upgraded now.

No, I'm saying the members feature is disabled because MySQL is a terrible database that easily becomes clogged, overloaded and unable to function and there's simply too much going on on the Graal servers for these forums to cope with an active memberlist.

It has very little to do with bandwidth, really; I'm sure unix can more than afford the bandwidth that these servers push.

AlkarenHyralt · #30 02-28-2004, 05:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by zell12
So you're saying the members feature is useless because graalonline is too cheep to buy bandwidth to run the forums properly. I think I know why the forums are restricted to people who only upgraded now.

Database Knowledge = 0

zell12 · #31 02-28-2004, 05:54 AM

There are barely more then 20 people on the forums at one time, so how are the forums so stressed? Besides which, there were additions made to the forums and upgrades to the computers that host the forums so I would still like to see what Unixmad has to say.

AlkarenHyralt · #32 02-28-2004, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by zell12
There are barely more then 20 people on the forums at one time, so how are the forums so stressed? Besides which, there were additions made to the forums and upgrades to the computers that host the forums so I would still like to see what Unixmad has to say.

Have you not read a single thing said?

This version of VB is old. Very old. and it will not be upgraded anytime soon. due to how old it is, the state of the MySQL tables (the database on which VB runs) and the way servers work, among other factors to put in the memberlist again would be horribly foolish.

It would, quite literally crash the forums. If not erase a good ammount of data when the tables crashed due to it being reused again.

zell12 · #33 02-28-2004, 05:59 AM

How do you know things are not added to the forums without completly upgrading?

ZanderX · #34 02-28-2004, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by zell12
How do you know things are not added to the forums without completly upgrading?

Because that's not possible. Especially not with a version of vB as old as this. vB works via upgrade scripts. If something major on the forum was upgraded, we'd know.

AlkarenHyralt · #35 02-28-2004, 06:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by zell12
How do you know things are not added to the forums without completly upgrading?

....Dude. I ran the forums. I'm like, a php master and understand how MySQL and stuff worked. I wrote hacks for this VB version and stuff to be used on the forum, and gave them to unix. (he never installed them of course.)

I know a lot about the internal workings of these forums. Not to mention I would know if unix did any himself, thorugh hearing about it, or by seeing mistakes with the forum

zell12 · #36 02-28-2004, 06:07 AM

Yes, you know everything because you once ran the forums a year ago. And you were banned, so I don't think unixmad lieks you much, so how would you know?

ZanderX · #37 02-28-2004, 06:08 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by zell12
Yes, you know everything because you once ran the forums a year ago. And you were banned, so I don't think unixmad lieks you much, so how would you know?

Because he knows how vB works, just like I do. You don't upgrade individual components, you upgrade the entire forum system, and these forums have obviously not been upgraded.

Angel · #38 02-28-2004, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by ZanderX

Because he knows how vB works, just like I do. You don't upgrade individual components, you upgrade the entire forum system, and these forums have obviously not been upgraded.

Actually, MySQL tables can be optimized, The code used to access the mysql server can be optimized and you wouldn't notice a dang thing, The display code (Results from MySQL) could be optimized....Not trying to say your wrong but it is possible without you noticeing......

AlkarenHyralt · #39 02-28-2004, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by zell12
Yes, you know everything because you once ran the forums a year ago. And you were banned, so I don't think unixmad lieks you much, so how would you know?

I don't seem to be banned. And because I am still friends with graal people and would hear about unix doing such a thing. Not to mention the forums would have a strong chance of crashing because:

1. How messed up the tables and the coding is

and

2. Unix is a Perl scripter. Not php. He has proved many times over that he is very weak in scripting php.

There is a saying: pick and choose your battles.

You're picking the wrong battle here to fight. I am far above your level when it comes to MySQL, PHP, and VB.

Quote:

Originally posted by Angel

Actually, MySQL tables can be optimized, The code used to access the mysql server can be optimized and you wouldnt notice a dang thing, The display code (Results from MySQL) could be optimized....Not trying to say your wrong but it is possible without yout noticeing......

the way VB makes calls to the tables is somewhat uniqe. You'd risk heavy damage to the forums if you tried to run one, especially with this version of VB (2.2.2)

ZanderX · #40 02-28-2004, 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Angel

Actually, MySQL tables can be optimized, The code used to access the mysql server can be optimized and you wouldnt notice a dang thing, The display code (Results from MySQL) could be optimized....Not trying to say your wrong but it is possible without yout noticeing......

We're talking more about the forum system itself, not the way vB interacts with its database, yo.