Sugustions to make Graal More Profitable ;)

[Kigan]

As I now understand, you can buy a playerworld for $99 (USD) a year. Or more accurately, pay Cyberjourers for the Hosting of your playerworld.

A lot of people think that since they put all the work into creating a playerworld they should get SOMETHING in return.

Here is a proposal:

For Graal Online Accounts creation. Make a new system that tracks referals.

This way, if I have a playerworld, and I get people to buy a Graal account, I can get compensation. Say $5 - 10 per account?

This would encourage playerworlds to advertise their playerworld and ultimately get more people subscribing to Graal.

It would also be nice if the referal account creation page could be customised so that it looks like part of the sending site.

For example, If I have a new Playerworld called GoGoBoots Online, with a website at gogobootsonline.com. When people sign up to create an account they get sent to a graalonline.com page, but customized to look like the rest of the gogobootsonline.com page.

You could have manditory content, and space to put optional content etc.

Part 2 of the proposal:

For the Graal Client (Version 3) add the option to have a customized menu screen, and auto connect to a specific playerworld. This could be done by passing a command line argument to graal.exe:

e.g. : graal.exe /playerworld "gogoboots.data"

This would allow playerworlds to distribute their games with their own icon and make it look a little more professional.

The playerworld website would say something like

"You can now log on to GoGoBoots Online by clicking on the GoGoBoots Online Icon on your desktop. GoGoBoots Online is powered by the Graal Online Engine. With your subscription to Graal Online Service you have access to not only GoGoBoots Online, but many other Graal Online Worlds as well. See http://www.graalonline.com/ for more information. To access other Graal Online worlds, click on the Graal Online Icon on your desktop."

Get it, so when someone click on GoGoBoots Online, they don't see a bunch of Graal Graphics, they see GoGoBoots Online graphics, and don't see a server list, just a "connect" button, when thats pressed, it automaticailly goes to GoGoBoots online.

This would increase the amount of players subscribing to Graal Online (Graal Gold) and would also increase the income from Playerworlds.

Think about it

[Spark910]

I remember hearing something about referals a while back.

[Lance]

It was going to be used to lower the cost of the server somewhat, though not by $5-10, as that's more than a bit much.

[Kigan]

I was just thinking if the subcription for a year is $45 if Graal Online gets 40 and the Playerworld gets 5 that seems fair to me?

You should probably require a gold subscription for any compensation. Honestly, $45 a year is quite competitive for an online game. And with Graal you get several online games, not just one.

[Kigan]

Maybe instead of money you could use like Graal Credits that are good to buy Graal Mechendise, Upgrade Accounts, or Pay for another year of your Playerworld. That way Graal Online gets some of the money back, and doesn't need to worry about how to pay all the playerworld owners (which can become a nightmare if you're small like Cyberjourers)

[jake13jake]

WAIT!!! DErrRRR.... A BETTER IDEA!!!!!!

Advertising in better places than 4 years unupdated Zelda Sites!!!

--Yes, that's where I found Graal, a 4 year unupdated Zelda Site...

[Qwert616]

I remember a suggestion like this being brought up a long while ago. It is just in the back of my head.

However, PlayerWorlds aren't supposed to be a buisness for players to make "profits" off of.

[MrGannondorf]

yah, they're intended to con their developer's of good ideas and potentualy profitable intelectual property, then make them laughing stock as the pw dies and their work can't be recycled.
And the price for hosting is added in so it can help someone other than you make a decent living in addition to enjoying the irony.

Well, to put it bluntly, that is.
I think $99 bucks a year is a waist of cash, though, since if you have the skill to make a half way decint playerworld, you should just spend $30, once, and get a book on C++ and make your own online game.

[G_yoshi]

Originally posted by MrGannondorf
yah, they're intended to con their developer's of good ideas and potentualy profitable intelectual property, then make them laughing stock as the pw dies and their work can't be recycled.
And the price for hosting is added in so it can help someone other than you make a decent living in addition to enjoying the irony.

Well, to put it bluntly, that is.
I think $99 bucks a year is a waist of cash, though, since if you have the skill to make a half way decint playerworld, you should just spend $30, once, and get a book on C++ and make your own online game.

Then why are you here? Stop complaining. You're just as bad as many of the anti-graal people. Technically, the work is still yours to do with as you see fit. The nulling of your copyright is to protect GO from users being stupid and trying to file lawsuits. You're just upset because you are unable to get the funding If you're old enough, get a job.

*edit*
If you want to be a serious playerworld developer (or not) then its only fair to pay for server space. If you're serious about making a good playerworld then you shouldn't care if you get anything in return much less anything of monetary value. To some this seems like a trap to others it may not. In a way its a trap for the less serious users who just want thier own little personal world where they are the "boss" and can push others around.

I mean, come on. If you were that type of person wouldn't this be rather enticing? A chance to have your own server to pretty much do with as you see fit? A place where you can act out the actions of "corrupt" staff from other servers.

[marcoR]

Only stupid users can't file lawsuits =)

[G_yoshi]

Originally posted by marcoR
Only stupid users can't file lawsuits =)

That's the biggest lie I've heard all day. Sometime you should check out some of the various lawsuits filed in the US. I'm sure you'll find some that are blatantly stupid and only serve to prove that it doesn't take a rocket scientist to file charges against someone for something highly idiotic.

[marcoR]

I actually meant winning, it does prevent it, but it doesn't stop it.
No need for big names.

[G_yoshi]

Originally posted by marcoR
I actually meant winning, it does prevent it, but it doesn't stop it.
No need for big names.

Big names?

[TripleE]

Originally posted by Lance
It was going to be used to lower the cost of the server somewhat, though not by $5-10, as that's more than a bit much.

I agree. Getting 10 friends to reupgrade an account wouldnt be hard, and your server would be paid for. Maybe 5 dollars off every 10-15 people who signed your playerworld as referal.

[HoudiniMan]

Referal system is something you'll probably see in the future - not saying near or far, i don't know.

As for making it look like part of your site and having a "gogoboots" icon instead of a "Graal Online" icon... I don't think that would fly. It's graal that you're using and they're signing up for, we don't need to mask what it is or we start to become faceless and like my domain host... It's one of over 400 front companies all pointing to a mother-company. Very hard to get tech support for and people could get legal trouble aimed at them personally if something happened with copyright, etc.

[MrGannondorf]

Originally posted by G_yoshi


Then why are you here? Stop complaining. You're just as bad as many of the anti-graal people. Technically, the work is still yours to do with as you see fit. The nulling of your copyright is to protect GO from users being stupid and trying to file lawsuits. You're just upset because you are unable to get the funding If you're old enough, get a job.

*edit*
If you want to be a serious playerworld developer (or not) then its only fair to pay for server space. If you're serious about making a good playerworld then you shouldn't care if you get anything in return much less anything of monetary value. To some this seems like a trap to others it may not. In a way its a trap for the less serious users who just want thier own little personal world where they are the "boss" and can push others around.

I mean, come on. If you were that type of person wouldn't this be rather enticing? A chance to have your own server to pretty much do with as you see fit? A place where you can act out the actions of "corrupt" staff from other servers.

Wow, my post didn't get deleted. I know why graal holds the rights to the submitted...

But I think you missed my point alltogether. The point is, with the hosting system now the developers of playerworlds work is going to the profit of Unix and Stefan. That is if their playworld doesn't wash up because of the main stream servers and biased players.

So I guess I mean to say that if you have a burning desire to have a graal server, you can't complain about putting hard work ino it without getting much back from it, if anything.

(hench the part about it being more economical to learn a programing language and make your own game... you still get the creative output you want, and you have some potentual for your creation)

[G_yoshi]

Originally posted by MrGannondorf


Wow, my post didn't get deleted. I know why graal holds the rights to the submitted...

But I think you missed my point alltogether. The point is, with the hosting system now the developers of playerworlds work is going to the profit of Unix and Stefan. That is if their playworld doesn't wash up because of the main stream servers and biased players.

So I guess I mean to say that if you have a burning desire to have a graal server, you can't complain about putting hard work ino it without getting much back from it, if anything.

(hench the part about it being more economical to learn a programing language and make your own game... you still get the creative output you want, and you have some potentual for your creation)

If you're looking to be rewarded with money you've come to the wrong place. That's my point. You're focus lies in expecting some kind of return, money or not. That's not where your interests should be. It should be the desire to make a great server that you've always dreamed of. That's why a lot of people are very successful in life. They're not looking for money. All they want to do is serve and give without expecting anything in return. Sure, they'll most likely get paid for thier work, but that's not thier focus.

[MrGannondorf]

I aggree that playworld owners/staff should understand that they're not going to get a cent from graalonline for having the pw.

I dissaggree that the key to sucess is being a doormat.

Take billy gates for example. He's got so much money that if he had a dime for every nickle, this analogy STILL wouldn't be very good!

Or we could take graal online itself as an example. It still hasn't gone under, and they sure aren't providing this as a free service.


On the other hand, what you said suports what I call the "webcomic business modle" that provides a free service and relys on donations and a part time job to break even.
It works, but it won't make you gates, who got his wealth on cleverly and aggressivly marketing a pice of trash (called qdos) that he, or his company, didn't even make!



Perhaps we're both right.

[jake13jake]

I still say Graal needs to advertise more.....!!

[Amagius]

Originally posted by jake13jake
I still say Graal needs to advertise more.....!!

Now you did it. You got my attention with the ".....!!" I hope your happy.

Advertise for Graal, if you want Graal to advertise. Get a sandwich board with Graal Online written on it and suport Graal. Walk around town. You'll be a respected member of your town's community, since everyone will know you as "that Sandwich Boy." instead of Jake. Jake is bland, but "that Sandwich Boy" - - that's inspirational.

[G_yoshi]

Originally posted by MrGannondorf
I aggree that playworld owners/staff should understand that they're not going to get a cent from graalonline for having the pw.

I dissaggree that the key to sucess is being a doormat.

Take billy gates for example. He's got so much money that if he had a dime for every nickle, this analogy STILL wouldn't be very good!

Or we could take graal online itself as an example. It still hasn't gone under, and they sure aren't providing this as a free service.


On the other hand, what you said suports what I call the "webcomic business modle" that provides a free service and relys on donations and a part time job to break even.
It works, but it won't make you gates, who got his wealth on cleverly and aggressivly marketing a pice of trash (called qdos) that he, or his company, didn't even make!



Perhaps we're both right.

I'm not saying you should be a doormat. I'm saying that you should put focus in making a world that meets your expectations or better. To tell the truth, If I knew how to use C++ I'd work for free for just about any game studio. Its something I enjoy or at least in the aspect of Graal.

Simply put: I like creating things

[Milkdude99]

Ok let’s look at it this way, you use Graal scripts, Graal engine, Graal GFX, basically you use all Graal tools to make your PW with. You take no risk, you own no servers to host with, you pay for no bandwidth, you don't own any domains for Graal, you have no lawyers on retainer for possible lawsuits, you provide no investors for the Game, you pay no taxes on equipment used for the Game, you don't pay the rent to house the servers for the Game, you don't pay the utilities for the office of the game, you don't pay or own the licenses for the game, you own no copyrights for the game nor do you pay for copyrights.

And this is just some of the "details" I have listed and with all this said you think the Playerworld "Owners/renters" deserve to own something? Or they can just do as they please because they use everything of Graals and reap the benefits of that? The piddle amount you choose to pay for "renting a server" does not outweigh what Graal provides to you so you may do so. What you do is nothing more than what you would pay for a "hobby". Hobbies cost a person, just how much depends on how much you want to spend, what you want to spend on your hobby (Graal) depends on what you want out of it.

If you just want to play then it is very cheap, if you want to build something on Graal then it cost more time and money to do so, as any hobby would to that aim. But keep in mind you don't own anything related to Graal, if your driving devotion isn't the satisfaction of making something others will want to play, then remain a player and don't make your hobby building something on Graal you will never own. Since you don't own anything you also have to keep in mind you will have to follow the Playerworld rules of Graal being they have every right to make them since they own all rights to it and you know this in the beginning.

[MrGannondorf]

Originally posted by G_yoshi


I'm not saying you should be a doormat. I'm saying that you should put focus in making a world that meets your expectations or better. To tell the truth, If I knew how to use C++ I'd work for free for just about any game studio. Its something I enjoy or at least in the aspect of Graal.

Simply put: I like creating things

Yah, I'm just saying is if they want profit they should start their own game. Now that you put it that way, I actualy aggree with you (to some extent). I enjoy creation, aswell, but I also enjoy having something to eat.

Originally posted by Milkdude99
Ok let’s look at it this way, you use Graal scripts, Graal engine, Graal GFX, basically you use all Graal tools to make your PW with. You take no risk, you own no servers to host with, you pay for no bandwidth, you don't own any domains for Graal, you have no lawyers on retainer for possible lawsuits, you provide no investors for the Game, you pay no taxes on equipment used for the Game, you don't pay the rent to house the servers for the Game, you don't pay the utilities for the office of the game, you don't pay or own the licenses for the game, you own no copyrights for the game nor do you pay for copyrights.

And this is just some of the "details" I have listed and with all this said you think the Playerworld "Owners/renters" deserve to own something? Or they can just do as they please because they use everything of Graals and reap the benefits of that? The piddle amount you choose to pay for "renting a server" does not outweigh what Graal provides to you so you may do so. What you do is nothing more than what you would pay for a "hobby". Hobbies cost a person, just how much depends on how much you want to spend, what you want to spend on your hobby (Graal) depends on what you want out of it.

If you just want to play then it is very cheap, if you want to build something on Graal then it cost more time and money to do so, as any hobby would to that aim. But keep in mind you don't own anything related to Graal, if your driving devotion isn't the satisfaction of making something others will want to play, then remain a player and don't make your hobby building something on Graal you will never own. Since you don't own anything you also have to keep in mind you will have to follow the Playerworld rules of Graal being they have every right to make them since they own all rights to it and you know this in the beginning.

I'm not even going to read all that.
All I'm saying, is if you want profit, go somewhere else.
oh, and of the first paragraph, you do have to pay for servers, so there are some royalties. Also, its not hard to host your own webserver in your own home (and donations etc from being more established as a game (or other forms of payment you can get for your services) ease the blow of bills).

[G_yoshi]

Originally posted by MrGannondorf

Yah, I'm just saying is if they want profit they should start their own game. Now that you put it that way, I actualy aggree with you (to some extent). I enjoy creation, aswell, but I also enjoy having something to eat.

I'm not saying I want a profit. Otherwise if I did, I'd be more inclined to get my playerworld done. Really, I'll still gain some kind of profit but not in monetary value.

And what a coinsidence, I enjoy having things to eat too But seriously, if you want to get paid to develop games then go to college and find developers looking to hire people with the skills you can provide. Graal is a hobby. Sometimes I wish I had more time and could keep better focus on it, but it doesn't help when I'm doing all the work. I get tired of doing it after so long so I take breaks (too many, unfortunately). In the long run its probably better this way. Heck, I've even contemplated a few times about canning my playerworld so I wouldn't have to worry about it and be able to enjoy graal as a player. Too bad not many playerworlds suit my interests or tastes

[MrGannondorf]

Me's curious to what ever happened to doragon koden. (I was a gat learning the ropes once under you, rember?)
I'll save that chatter for the forum pms, but I think... negatively... when people beg for playerworlds to be cheaper/profitable for them.
I myself am working on a game that I've been planning for a few years... to be made in C/C++...
the reason for that is a) I hope I'll get enough generous users that I can get a bit of pocket money off donations (game itself will be free), b) I decided that I want some more controll over my server than the graal's engine can give me, c) I don't like how the client and rc run (lag/memory leaks... they're all great ), d) I'm not too fond of graal's player body and a few of thier admins.


I'm not gonna realy go on much from there since its off the mark of my point, and because I don't want to advertise or anything of that kind on another game's forum.



anyhow, from what experience I've had with programing, it isn't all that hard to make your own game engine... and of that is to the fact that if you develope a playerworld graal, you might as well realize that the only realy benificial thing you'll get out of it is learning, and possibly makeing a name for yourself... and a smaller wallet.

[MrGannondorf]

IEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!! clean out your pm mail box!!!

[G_yoshi]

Originally posted by MrGannondorf
Me's curious to what ever happened to doragon koden. (I was a gat learning the ropes once under you, rember?)
I'll save that chatter for the forum pms, but I think... negatively... when people beg for playerworlds to be cheaper/profitable for them.
I myself am working on a game that I've been planning for a few years... to be made in C/C++...
the reason for that is a) I hope I'll get enough generous users that I can get a bit of pocket money off donations (game itself will be free), b) I decided that I want some more controll over my server than the graal's engine can give me, c) I don't like how the client and rc run (lag/memory leaks... they're all great ), d) I'm not too fond of graal's player body and a few of thier admins.


I'm not gonna realy go on much from there since its off the mark of my point, and because I don't want to advertise or anything of that kind on another game's forum.



anyhow, from what experience I've had with programing, it isn't all that hard to make your own game engine... and of that is to the fact that if you develope a playerworld graal, you might as well realize that the only realy benificial thing you'll get out of it is learning, and possibly makeing a name for yourself... and a smaller wallet.

Last I checked its still there

[MrGannondorf]

as is the "we're still building! go away!" thingy you have up...
at any rate catch up on stuffs sometime.... lest you want nothing to do with me :P

[adam]

Originally posted by G_yoshi


That's the biggest lie I've heard all day. Sometime you should check out some of the various lawsuits filed in the US. I'm sure you'll find some that are blatantly stupid and only serve to prove that it doesn't take a rocket scientist to file charges against someone for something highly idiotic.

And they win too. Far far too often.

[G_yoshi]

Originally posted by adam


And they win too. Far far too often.

Sadly, this is true...

[MrGannondorf]

alas :/

[G_yoshi]

Originally posted by MrGannondorf
as is the "we're still building! go away!" thingy you have up...
at any rate catch up on stuffs sometime.... lest you want nothing to do with me :P

Meh. I setup the control NPC to move people from that level. If all else, just do unstick me