Re: Global GFX Team

[Tseng]

Some people have already complained; a few have even threatened me, so I will address this directly-

For anyone who's wondering, yes, I did in fact disable the global graphics team guild tags.

Why did I do this? Several reasons; I'll try to explain in a question-and-answer format.

First, I'll address the global graphics team's job.

What does the global graphics team not do?

-The global graphics team does not review playerworld graphics to determine their legality.
-The global graphics team does not make graphics for playerworlds as a job. This is true because Zen has said they are not to do this. They are only to make graphics as global graphics team members by his assignment only.

What does the global graphics team do instead?

-The global graphics team uses their tags as PK-evasion tools. No fewer than two members have admitted this to me. They are clearly not doing work, so how is this fair? It is in my mind intolerable.
-The global graphics team tries to look important, without doing actual work.

Why, then, should they exist at all?

-I've been wondering that myself.

Why, then, should I not disable their tag?

-I saw no reason not to, and every reason to do so.

That's not fair! You can't do that!

-Really? I could just use:

globalguilds=false

and disable it that way. So, I see no problem with disabling it via a script.

Final comments?

-The global graphics team really should shape up - currently, it is doing nothing, can do nothing if asked, and is rather useless.

[TeRRi2k]

they dont work?

excuse me, but maybe some idiots dont work, but some do, how do u know if they do or not? Well i know some are really unactive, but some werent always idled, so you go and disable those people too?

zen assigns work

yes u right, zen assigns. we work. zen dont, we dont. do you wonder, or have i not tell u this, that one of the reasons i helped a bit with debug, was because zen didn't really assign much, so i looked for my own work?

pk evasion?

yea, cept people don't really care, they still pk, and I don't really care either...if you're talking abotu on 2k1, i can just run to water, either wise, ...you know im a pker myself.

why should they exist?

I dont know why they exist, but they dont exist just to, exist. And they help with small things PW needs help with...and if all of them are like me, they do personal requests. And tseng, you cant say thats not true because I've done these things, just 'cause you said I said no when you asked for help(i dont even remember you asking).

um, who do you think you are?

It's doesn't haev much to do with your position, because I think all this power has inflated your head. :/ You don't have rights to do that, simply coz its not your JOB to disable inactive guilds. If you're disabling a local guild, that's a different story. Nor do i see other servers doing this, its like you think you have power over these things.

So overall, I think you're getting nosy. I can understand why you disabled globalwarpto, coz of them cheating with the quests and things, but a tag doesn't even do anything harmful really. And unless I see stefan disabling global guilds on GK, well I dont think you shoudl thats all.

[cloudstrifevii]

o.o Well I don't see why using their tag as a PK evasion is such a bad thing as long as they dont pk on it....yes alot of players dont have that advantage but alot of players dont have their talent.

[Tseng]

Originally posted by TeRRi2k
they dont work?

excuse me, but maybe some idiots dont work, but some do, how do u know if they do or not? Well i know some are really unactive, but some werent always idled, so you go and disable those people too?[/b]

They have no job - how can they do work? You, yourself, said zen doesn't allow you guys to help on other servers as global gfx team members. You are free to help 2k1 out as yourselves, if you want, though I don't really expect anyone to.

zen assigns work

yes u right, zen assigns. we work. zen dont, we dont. do you wonder, or have i not tell u this, that one of the reasons i helped a bit with debug, was because zen didn't really assign much, so i looked for my own work?

Again: you, yourself, said he assigns nothing. I don't know what point you're trying to make here.

pk evasion?

yea, cept people don't really care, they still pk, and I don't really care either...if you're talking abotu on 2k1, i can just run to water, either wise, ...you know im a pker myself.

But using it just to avoid PKing isn't really the right thing to do.

why should they exist?

I dont know why they exist, but they dont exist just to, exist. And they help with small things PW needs help with...and if all of them are like me, they do personal requests. And tseng, you cant say thats not true because I've done these things, just 'cause you said I said no when you asked for help(i dont even remember you asking).

I talked to you twice; one was when you jokingly asked for RC access then promised to go idle within a day, the other was when I really coulda used some help. You know how much I like your graphics .

um, who do you think you are?

It's doesn't haev much to do with your position, because I think all this power has inflated your head. :/ You don't have rights to do that, simply coz its not your JOB to disable inactive guilds. If you're disabling a local guild, that's a different story. Nor do i see other servers doing this, its like you think you have power over these things.

Inflated my head, becuase I don't like that some member(s) of the global graphics team fall into each of these categories: think it's fun to harrass me about being hired, don't do any work, and some use their tags just to avoid being PKed. Yeah, my head's really inflated. I disabled a guild that didn't do work. Is that such a bad thing? I would say "no".

So overall, I think you're getting nosy. I can understand why you disabled globalwarpto, coz of them cheating with the quests and things, but a tag doesn't even do anything harmful really. And unless I see stefan disabling global guilds on GK, well I dont think you shoudl thats all.

Nosy? Um, it's my business when it's going on at the server I manage. A tag isn't harmful in and of itself, but when the only use going on of it is a bad one? Then yes, I will take some action.

Think of it this way: I think the global GFX team needs some major rethinking of the team, its purpose, and what it does. Maybe this action will cause change to take place within the Global Graphics Team.

[GhettoChild]

Gah! I hate this! I have worked and worked to get better and better and I have succeeded then I try to get global graphics and they hire a couple and I miss out on the tryouts but then a bunch of jerkoffs abuse something i'd charish and ruin it for me and others. Thats just nonsence. If you are going to join a global group such as that you should take your job seriously:grrr:

[HunterTerryon]

well this really dosnt surprise me and it why I havent rushed to join the ggt it once was a pretty good thing but currently its a bunch of ****s who cant draw a straight line or a bunch of people who just want to abuse psp and call it graphics.also people who dont pixel their stuff instead they use massive filters.Its sad really I dont blame zen its not really his fault but I do think he should have a team wipe and start anew and have a very hard test to get in.Also people migh tthink zen is doing poorly bu thes not really its hard to compare him to legends kawaii and all them.

[Googi]

Tags aren't really needed to check the legality of graphics anyways.

[TeRRi2k]

Originally posted by HunterTerryon
well this really dosnt surprise me and it why I havent rushed to join the ggt it once was a pretty good thing but currently its a bunch of ****s who cant draw a straight line or a bunch of people who just want to abuse psp and call it graphics.also people who dont pixel their stuff instead they use massive filters.Its sad really I dont blame zen its not really his fault but I do think he should have a team wipe and start anew and have a very hard test to get in.Also people migh tthink zen is doing poorly bu thes not really its hard to compare him to legends kawaii and all them.

I actually, have never seen the work of the other members in ggt 'cept for zen/jourdan... a whipe will be good, since half the people in the team i have never even seen -_-

Originally posted by Tseng
They have no job - how can they do work? You, yourself, said zen doesn't allow you guys to help on other servers as global gfx team members. You are free to help 2k1 out as yourselves, if you want, though I don't really expect anyone to.

Zen doesn't assign work, so we get no work basically. But then I never really listened to him. I guess sometimes when i help out playerworlds, I do it as 'hurumi', not as 'global gfx team' person. And I would help, if you just tell me what you need help with and I'll try my best to...I dont wnat you to think im helping, just to make myself like Im working, although Im not really staff anymore.

Originally posted by Tseng
I talked to you twice; one was when you jokingly asked for RC access then promised to go idle within a day, the other was when I really coulda used some help. You know how much I like your graphics .

Well that was all a joke, since i was saying no way am i going thru all the lag with 200 people on.

The funny thing here is, weird, i could/would have done what I have done without even being on GGT at all. I dont care about the tag, Im still just saying how even tho GGT is going downhill, its still not really your job to disable them.

[Loriel]

Tseng absolutely has the right to disable any tags he wishes to disable. It is his 'playerworld'.

[Minoc]

Originally posted by Loriel
Tseng absolutely has the right to disable any tags he wishes to disable. It is his 'playerworld'.

He has the right to do so, but Graal2001 isn't exactly a playerworld ;o

[Loriel]

This is the reason I abused these poor apostrophes as single quotes.

[draco5432]

Originally posted by GhettoChild
Gah! I hate this! I have worked and worked to get better and better and I have succeeded then I try to get global graphics and they hire a couple and I miss out on the tryouts but then a bunch of jerkoffs abuse something i'd charish and ruin it for me and others. Thats just nonsence. If you are going to join a global group such as that you should take your job seriously:grrr:

Amen

[Valder]

Originally posted by GhettoChild
Gah! I hate this! I have worked and worked to get better and better and I have succeeded then I try to get global graphics and they hire a couple and I miss out on the tryouts but then a bunch of jerkoffs abuse something i'd charish and ruin it for me and others. Thats just nonsence. If you are going to join a global group such as that you should take your job seriously:grrr:

60% of graal staff only have tags to show people that they think they are important.

[alarid0]

You can still do your job when your name doesnt include a tag :o
And um don't reply with anything about whether or not they're doing their job k

[GhettoChild]

Originally posted by Valder


60% of graal staff only have tags to show people that they think they are important.

Agreed

[Python523]

Originally posted by Loriel
Tseng absolutely has the right to disable any tags he wishes to disable. It is his 'playerworld'.

But then you get into the arguement that they are global staff, most of the global staff's positions are to inspect and/or supervise worlds, example: if someone shows up at your house with a search warrent, you can't deny them access

Yes I am away that my example was a weak one, since you don't need the tag, or search warrent as a put it, to inspect but I'm trying to make the point that the real arguement behind this is if you are allowed to disable a staff guild

[Loriel]

Originally posted by Python523
But then you get into the arguement that they are global staff

Questionable. If there was a GM to look after them, would they still be?

most of the global staff's positions are to inspect and/or supervise worlds,

I think that only applies to playerworlds. Tseng has stated why he does not think the the GFX team needs to do a job on G2k1.

example: if someone shows up at your house with a search warrent, you can't deny them access

True, but a search warrant is not like having a job. And if some silly policemen showed up at my house, that I know are corrupt and abusing their position to harass me, I can deny them access.

Yes I am away that my example was a weak one, since you don't need the tag, or search warrent as a put it, to inspect but I'm trying to make the point that the real arguement behind this is if you are allowed to disable a staff guild

Back when I was working on G2k1 more, Stefan always followed the policy that the local G2k1 staff stood above the global staff. This should apply even more if the global staff abuses its power. I remember having to ban Bhala for adding a global '(Staff)' guild so he could use our admin NPCs.

[Tseng]

Originally posted by Python523

Yes I am away that my example was a weak one, since you don't need the tag, or search warrent as a put it, to inspect but I'm trying to make the point that the real arguement behind this is if you are allowed to disable a staff guild

By Zen + other members of the team's own admissions, they don't really do much work anymore. In fact, I talked with Zen earlier this afternoon, and he said that other than himself, only Jourdan is supposed to be on the team now, but that since the global guilds are screwy, he cannot remove all these other people from it.

I'll be glad to enable Jourdan's tag. However, I was perfectly within my rights to make a statement "The Global GFX Team needs to be looked at." And, because I did so, the Global GFX Team is being examined, and Stefan will take care of removing the former members' tags.

[TeRRi2k]

Originally posted by Tseng

Stefan will take care of removing the former members' tags.

That's great.

I already removed myself anyway

[LordZen]

Originally posted by Tseng


By Zen + other members of the team's own admissions, they don't really do much work anymore. In fact, I talked with Zen earlier this afternoon, and he said that other than himself, only Jourdan is supposed to be on the team now, but that since the global guilds are screwy, he cannot remove all these other people from it.

I'll be glad to enable Jourdan's tag. However, I was perfectly within my rights to make a statement "The Global GFX Team needs to be looked at." And, because I did so, the Global GFX Team is being examined, and Stefan will take care of removing the former members' tags.

Guildcp has not worked properly since newyears, about. The only reason any of those people are still in the team (besides jourdan) is because guild leaders still do not have the power to remove other members. As Tseng and myself established privately, the main source of problems was comming from account "marrico" (Damix) who I had infact fired before anybody else...a very long time ago. He was caught impersonating me and lied to a kid and had him send marrico alot of personal gfx. He knows full well hes fired, but yet still uses the tag and caused problems on 2k1, I have no control over that...

Yes, we hadnt been doing much, there has been no team for a long time, and before that I had to rely on guildcp to communicate with most members.

Tseng, 2 Thursdays ago I forum pm'd Stefan instructing him to remove all but me and Jourdan, and to set up a private message board with access for the new members, but he has still not gotten around to it. I had expected him to actually act on it this time because I was able to get him to say he would soon, lol. If he had, then probably this thread wouldnt have been started in the first place, unless marrico has been causing problems for a long time?

I agree with Tseng's decision to temporarily disable the GGT tag under these circumstances, considering that almost nobody should have the tag right now, and people who shouldnt have the tag were using it, and abusing it, making me look bad.

About the assignment of work. My policy on that was I would not assign work to my team, and require it to be completed as a job for them, unless it was something requested from one of the 3 administrative servers (classic, g2k1, g2k2). How could I police one's individual & independant actions? By being on the team, that did not mean it was illegal to work for a playerworld at the same time. My only limitation was that I would not accept requests from playerworlds, asking for gfx to be produced by my team, therefore me assigning it.

The Global GFX Team is to watch over playerworlds, to insure they are using graphics which are not copyrighted or otherwise illegal to use. I will also try to respect the rights of playerworlds to the graphics produced for them by their staff, whenever possible (aka keeping serverA from using serverB's gfx without permission). Also, as a global staff organization, I offer a service to the public non-playerworlds in that I can call apon my team to not only be my eyes and ears, but also to use their abilities to help Classic, g2k1, or g2k2 servers graphic wise...to supplement their own work.

It should not be looked apon as negative that I would refuse requests from playerworlds..especially now that there is like 100 of them lol..

Anyways, I appologize for the actions of those rogues, who should not have the tag at all, who are making the team and myself look bad. I think that now I have a more focused team, and the soon to be private discussion forum, it will be much easier to delegate assignments, and to be notified of problems on playerworlds so I can take care of them much more swiftly.

[Python523]

It's not even a 'team' if it's only you and Jourdan

[LordZen]

UM, its only me and Jourdan who have tags at the moment, I said.

Current team:
Zen
Jourdan
Redwizard
Garel
--Chris--

[Kaimetsu]

I still don't see the point. No matter how much effort you put in, you won't find half as many stolen graphics as the players do. I doubt very much that any of the GGT members plan on regularly inspecting playerworlds, and never use their tag at any other times.

And you certainly don't need an ingame tag to make graphics.

[TeRRi2k]

Originally posted by Kaimetsu
I still don't see the point. No matter how much effort you put in, you won't find half as many stolen graphics as the players do. I doubt very much that any of the GGT members plan on regularly inspecting playerworlds, and never use their tag at any other times.

And you certainly don't need an ingame tag to make graphics.

is that then not the same for a lot of the staff tags then? personally I think that no staff guild needs a tag to work, they just need a tag for people to see and to know they're there.

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by TeRRi2k
is that then not the same for a lot of the staff tags then?

Probably. Note that the GST don't bother with a staff tag.

[Python523]

Originally posted by Kaimetsu


Probably. Note that the GST don't bother with a staff tag.

Personally, I think we need one, not for the sake of wearing or for the sake of a way to signify that you are on duty, but as a way to be recognized. Lyndzey posted that someone stole passwords from people by setting their nick to
Name - Global Staff -
what's to stop them from doing
Name - Global Scripting Team -
I know most scripters are probably intelligent enough to know that is wrong and stupid but it would still be better if there was a way to 'confirm' your identity

[Loriel]

Originally posted by Python523
it would still be better if there was a way to 'confirm' your identity

Some sticky post listing all global, or even Kingdoms, staff would be nice.

[Kaimetsu]

*shrugs*

The only time we'd need such a tag is on RC - at least that'd stop people from PMing us for quest information. If it were available ingame then certain people would be all too happy to abuse it.

[Loriel]

*shrugs* If we were active enough, people would probably know who is in the team and who is not

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by Loriel
*shrugs* If we were active enough, people would probably know who is in the team and who is not

In terms of giving script advice, I'm pretty active. I haven't tried to inspect any of the payerworlds yet, though, simply because I'm doubtful of the reception we'd get from most of them. The GST need more influence if we are to be a more worthwhile team - we need to be able to insist on inspections and shut down bad NPCs.

[zell12]

I still think the GGT is pointless, they are not obglicated to make graphics for playerworlds, all they do is check the playerworlds for illegal graphics. Its stupid because that is what the players do while they play; you need not have a team to do this.

[Tseng]

Originally posted by Kaimetsu


In terms of giving script advice, I'm pretty active. I haven't tried to inspect any of the payerworlds yet, though, simply because I'm doubtful of the reception we'd get from most of them. The GST need more influence if we are to be a more worthwhile team - we need to be able to insist on inspections and shut down bad NPCs.

I completely agree, and I'm reasonably active giving scripting advice as well.

[ShadowStrike2k1]

Originally posted by Kaimetsu


In terms of giving script advice, I'm pretty active. I haven't tried to inspect any of the payerworlds yet, though, simply because I'm doubtful of the reception we'd get from most of them. The GST need more influence if we are to be a more worthwhile team - we need to be able to insist on inspections and shut down bad NPCs.

Instert what Tseng said here

word.

[TeRRi2k]

Originally posted by Loriel

Some sticky post listing all global, or even Kingdoms, staff would be nice.

Well not all the people from GK/playerworlds/whatevers read this forum, especially if their playerworld already have their own forums...plus they might not actually remember all the names, though they can get familiar with it...:o

[Tseng]

Originally posted by TeRRi2k


Well not all the people from GK/playerworlds/whatevers read this forum, especially if their playerworld already have their own forums...plus they might not actually remember all the names, though they can get familiar with it...:o

There was one in the graal main forum earlier, it should have been stickied or something.

[Chrismas]

++respects to Tseng.
Damn good to have a playerworld owner who knows what the hell he is doing. This is your pw and you should have all rights to do what you want with it, this gfx team is just another joke that seems to find its way into free RC access, that is just abused. Kudos.

[TeRRi2k]

Originally posted by Chrismas
++respects to Tseng.
Damn good to have a playerworld owner who knows what the hell he is doing. This is your pw and you should have all rights to do what you want with it, this gfx team is just another joke that seems to find its way into free RC access, that is just abused. Kudos.

they never had RC acess, free or not

[Python523]

Originally posted by Chrismas
[BThis is your pw and you should have all rights to do what you want with it [/B]

You are saying they are allowed to break the rules and steal stuff because you can do what you want with it, think before speaking

[Tseng]

Originally posted by Chrismas
++respects to Tseng.
Damn good to have a playerworld owner who knows what the hell he is doing. This is your pw and you should have all rights to do what you want with it, this gfx team is just another joke that seems to find its way into free RC access, that is just abused. Kudos.

As long as what I want is within reason, yeah. Thanks

[Chrismas]

Originally posted by Python523


You are saying they are allowed to break the rules and steal stuff because you can do what you want with it, think before speaking

If he is doing that then the players of the server will turn him into the actual staff, the people that run the game and don't get free tags and what not.