Questions..

[Snakeandy7]

I was just wondering, is there any new rule's or old rules what dont count with this new paying for a server stuff, or is it just the same ?

[davidpsy]

Originally posted by Snakeandy7
I was just wondering, is there any new rule's or old rules what dont count with this new paying for a server stuff, or is it just the same ?

I would think that people would own all the gfx and levels put on to their server if they payed for it so like if they wanted to use their gfx which was on their server for another game Stefan couldent sue them. Because then your actually paying money for Stefan to legally own your stuff.... That just dont sound right to me.

[Demon]

Originally posted by davidpsy

Because then your actually paying money for Stefan to legally own your stuff

I wouldn't be surprised if that were true..

[superb]

Originally posted by davidpsy


I would think that people would own all the gfx and levels put on to their server if they payed for it so like if they wanted to use their gfx which was on their server for another game Stefan couldent sue them. Because then your actually paying money for Stefan to legally own your stuff.... That just dont sound right to me.

Playerworld hosting doesn't change the EULA...anything you made is still GOs unless the licensing agreement is changed.

[Projectshifter]

Nah, we've been in arguements about it.
I see it as, if you made it, then it's yours, but if you give it to a playerworld to use, you can't later come and be like "Take it down fool!", that wouldn't be fair. UNLESS however, there was an agreement. Like people who don't want their scripts used later, put things like:
//Used with permission by <maker>
//If requested to remove, it must be removed immediately
---Shifter

[konidias]

Um guys, you're talking about two different things here.

1) Rules owners must follow - You have no rules to follow, anything goes.

2) Rules staff of playerworlds must follow - You have to follow the rules of the owner.

Meaning if the owner wanted to remove their playerworld, they could of course, do just that. But if some guy that made stuff for the owner says "omg no I want to take all my stuff back" he couldn't, if the owner made a rule saying that all submitted stuff becomes property of the pw owner.

The new pay playerworlds are like mini-Graals. All the rules are set by the manager of that world. It's obvious that if you're paying for the world, Graal doesn't own the stuff you put on it. They are simply hosting your stuff, like a webhost hosts websites. I'm pretty sure Unixmad stated this before...

[superb]

Originally posted by konidias
Um guys, you're talking about two different things here.

1) Rules owners must follow - You have no rules to follow, anything goes.

2) Rules staff of playerworlds must follow - You have to follow the rules of the owner.

Meaning if the owner wanted to remove their playerworld, they could of course, do just that. But if some guy that made stuff for the owner says "omg no I want to take all my stuff back" he couldn't, if the owner made a rule saying that all submitted stuff becomes property of the pw owner.

The new pay playerworlds are like mini-Graals. All the rules are set by the manager of that world. It's obvious that if you're paying for the world, Graal doesn't own the stuff you put on it. They are simply hosting your stuff, like a webhost hosts websites. I'm pretty sure Unixmad stated this before...

I think you're mistaken but I'd like to hear unix's word about this when he gets back.

[draco5432]

Here is my dillema, i manage Aura, but PS owns it, thus i set rules, but i also follow his, he dont like something he removes it...you buy the playerworld you get to do that i guess, LOL...But if my staff made a bunch of npc's or whatnot and quit, then say they want all there stuff removed, i would laugh in there face, they were working for my server, thus everything they submit is now property of Aura...or some other server.

[Tseng]

Originally posted by konidias
Um guys, you're talking about two different things here.

1) Rules owners must follow - You have no rules to follow, anything goes.

2) Rules staff of playerworlds must follow - You have to follow the rules of the owner.

Meaning if the owner wanted to remove their playerworld, they could of course, do just that. But if some guy that made stuff for the owner says "omg no I want to take all my stuff back" he couldn't, if the owner made a rule saying that all submitted stuff becomes property of the pw owner.

The new pay playerworlds are like mini-Graals. All the rules are set by the manager of that world. It's obvious that if you're paying for the world, Graal doesn't own the stuff you put on it. They are simply hosting your stuff, like a webhost hosts websites. I'm pretty sure Unixmad stated this before...

The owner has no rules to follow? Preposterous.

The "owner" is not, in fact, an owner. They do not own the playerworld. This is playerworld renting - the owner does not change; the owner remains Linux Cyberjoueurs. The person whom you refer to as an "owner" is still operating within Graal's terms and conditions, and is still bound by their license agreement, as well as whatever new license agreement may exist for the new PW renting system.

These are not mini-graals. These servers are a part of the graalonline world, and subject to the graalonline rules.

Are you purposely trying to trick all of these new PWs into thinking they can steal levels, graphics, etc; allow language and behavior which is not permitted by the graalonline code of conduct, and other such offenses? Or, are you just not using your brain?

[HoudiniMan]

Well said Tseng, saved me some time there.

[konidias]

Um Tseng, then please explain to me why they have a "No-Rules" category for playerworlds on graal.net.

edit: Also, you're not renting the playerworld, you're renting the server that hosts YOUR playerworld.

[Judge_S]

I think it'd be safe to say that the GraalOnline rules and regulations still apply. You can't go uploading copyrighted music and images, and expect nothing to come of it because you're in a "no rules" category.

[Ghost Pirate]

Originally posted by konidias
Um Tseng, then please explain to me why they have a "No-Rules" category for playerworlds on graal.net.

I'm not Tseng but I think no-rules means more or less you can do whatever you want aslong as it follow the Code of Conduct I suppose, Sorta like how Graal2000 is

[Tseng]

Originally posted by konidias

Um Tseng, then please explain to me why they have a "No-Rules" category for playerworlds on graal.net.

edit: Also, you're not renting the playerworld, you're renting the server that hosts YOUR playerworld.

I chalk it up both to poor English & overestimation of the average graalian intelligence (as can be seen in konidias's case). There are obviously sections for which managing your rented playerworld gives you freedoms that managing a normal playerworld does not (such as hiring/firing). However, it clearly does not, as Konidias mistakenly said, give them the ability to break whatever rules they feel like, such as posting pornographic pictures, using obscene language to the players, etc.

You are paying money to rent the playerworld. You are not renting the server that hosts your playerworld - mind you, each new playerworld is not on its own server. That would be rather wasteful.

[konidias]

Christ Tseng, lay the hell off of me. I misread one thing Unixmad says and you blow up on me and insult my intelligence.

I never said I was happy that there would be no rules, and I'm just stating what I think, they could or could not be the facts, so stop riding me about it for crying out loud.

You're acting like a real ass.

[Tseng]

Originally posted by konidias
Christ Tseng, lay the hell off of me. I misread one thing Unixmad says and you blow up on me and insult my intelligence.

I never said I was happy that there would be no rules, and I'm just stating what I think, they could or could not be the facts, so stop riding me about it for crying out loud.

You're acting like a real ass.

Any idea how many people would read your post, and decide it was okay to break any rule? By posting that, you made Stefan, unixmad, Tyhm, the PWA, and any other global staff's job quite a bit harder; because a lot of people will break rules, do all sorts of bad stuff, and then cause everyone else to have to do a lot more work.

You stated it as a fact - you prefixed it with no "I think."

[Lyndzey]

I think there should be some rules followed. In fact, Stefan already stated that these servers were not allowed to use certain Graal Kingdom graphics which does qualify as a rule.

Rules probably should have come out with the PW renting, but that didn't happen so we just have to try our best to handle the PWs.

Right now, no PWs are getting in trouble for copying GFX from other servers because we can't really order them to take it down. Same with giving out guest level 4 RCs...there is not a way to control them without unixmad.

[Tseng]

Originally posted by Lyndzey
Right now, no PWs are getting in trouble for copying GFX from other servers because we can't really order them to take it down. Same with giving out guest level 4 RCs...there is not a way to control them without unixmad.

Hopefully nobody misinterprets that - what Lyndzey said does NOT mean that it isn't disallowed and discouraged to steal graphics, etc. It's bad-bad-bad.

[konidias]

Originally posted by Tseng


Any idea how many people would read your post, and decide it was okay to break any rule? By posting that, you made Stefan, unixmad, Tyhm, the PWA, and any other global staff's job quite a bit harder; because a lot of people will break rules, do all sorts of bad stuff, and then cause everyone else to have to do a lot more work.

You stated it as a fact - you prefixed it with no "I think."

If they believe my opinion as fact, then that is their problem, not mine. You can't blame me because of it, like I'm the person who has the final say on what goes.

I didn't even mean breaking rules like stealing other work and stuff, I was talking about rules like player profanity and such. OBVIOUSLY stealing other people's work and using copyrighted stuff is against the rules, it's against the law. If you're stupid enough to think "no rules" for your playerworld means "Omg we can break every law ever created!" then you're a *****.

I made nobodies job harder. You're being stupid. If people are stupid enough to steal graphics from other playerworlds, then their playerworld would be crap anyhow. I also did not state it as a fact. You cannot say it's a fact simply because I didn't state that it was an opinion. I didn't state it was a fact or an opinion so you have no ruling on what it is. You're blowing this way out of proportion, you need to chill out.

[Tseng]

Originally posted by konidias


If they believe my opinion as fact, then that is their problem, not mine. You can't blame me because of it, like I'm the person who has the final say on what goes.

Again: You stated it as a fact, not an opinion. If you want to state an opinion, you generally prefix it with "I believe," "I feel," or "I think."

I didn't even mean breaking rules like stealing other work and stuff, I was talking about rules like player profanity and such.

And the average forum browser will know this? The rest of us aren't psychic, you know. When I read "1) Rules owners must follow - You have no rules to follow, anything goes." I believe it to mean just that: No rules to follow, anything goes. If you mean something other than "No rules to follow, anything goes," then why say that? Why not say what you mean?

OBVIOUSLY stealing other people's work and using copyrighted stuff is against the rules, it's against the law.

No rules would rather indicate to the contrary.

If you're stupid enough to think "no rules" for your playerworld means "Omg we can break every law ever created!" then you're a *****.

Fact: A large majority of people that play/work on graal are indeed *****s. Have you seen how much rulebreaking has already occurred on these new PWs? There's quite a bit.

I made nobodies job harder.

You don't know that yet - the ramifications of your post are not necessarily immediate.

You're being stupid.

You are assuming people can read your mind, or assuming that they can somehow magically get some meaning from your post other than what you wrote.

If people are stupid enough to steal graphics from other playerworlds, then their playerworld would be crap anyhow.

What if someone stole all of Oasis's graphics, levels, made NPCs to mimic your own, and made their own playerworld? People would go to it simply because of how visually appealing it would be.

I also did not state it as a fact. You cannot say it's a fact simply because I didn't state that it was an opinion. I didn't state it was a fact or an opinion so you have no ruling on what it is.

An opinion is a belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof, whereas a fact is something provable. You stated it as a fact - you even attempted to prove it with two words that exist on graal.net.

You're blowing this way out of proportion, you need to chill out.

I saw your post, as well as knowing about Stefan's upcoming vacation, and I'm sorry if I foresaw a lot of PWs thinking "Yay! We can do whatever we want!" Spark and Houdini don't need more of a headache; and by extension Angel and I do not need more of a headache as well (considering many people go to us as well to help deal with their problems.

[Kaiser2]

Yeah...I misinterpretted what Koni said as well...I've been around the block in Graal and then some...and seriously, if I misinterpretted what you said, many, many other people will as well.

Yeah...and chances are you don't know me, and I really dont care otherwise. I'll just post whenever I pass by this topic...and feel I can comment on it.

[konidias]

Tseng:
Again, you cannot say I'm stating facts just because I don't include "I think" in front of every sentence that I form an opinion in. If that were the case, you'd be stating a hell of a lot of untrue facts yourself. You're only ASSUMING it's a fact, you're also ASSUMING what I'm saying means something else. You're also ASSUMING that I'm going to make people's jobs harder because of that post.

As for people stealing Oasis graphics, hello, that has already happened. Now people can actually realise why the heck I complained so much, instead of just saying "You're just full of yourself".

As for people doing whatever they want, does it even matter? It's not like they are magically bound by these rules while there are no administrators here. If playerworld owners started copying other playerworlds, who would be able to stop them right now anyway?

You're thinking way too deep into this. You can't go around saying people are stating facts just because they don't include "I think" in front of their sentence. That's ridiculous. Here I will prove to you how stupid you sound:

"The rest of us aren't psychic, you know."
You're stating a fact saying nobody is psychic but me.

"Fact: A large majority of people that play/work on graal are indeed *****s."
Now you're stating opinions as facts...

"You don't know that yet - the ramifications of your post are not necessarily immediate."
You state this as a fact, yet you just said in the other post that because of my post, it will make people's jobs harder.

This is just in one post, I could keep going if you want. You're calling me out on something so ridiculous. Okay, I already stated that it's just my opinion, so lay off of me about it.

[HoudiniMan]

I "misinterpretted" your post as well.
And since obvisouly im not just being "stupid" it's probably safe to say that you could have had better word choice.

[Christian]

It isn't illegal to post rules that aren't true as long as he doesn't say he is global staff

When the PWA doesn't want stuff like that then they should inform the owners with something like a homepage or a sticked forum threads or rule files on each server..
(where does the PWA get the rules from?)

[konidias]

Originally posted by HoudiniMan
I "misinterpretted" your post as well.
And since obvisouly im not just being "stupid" it's probably safe to say that you could have had better word choice.

Yes I'm sure I could have worded it better, but does that mean you should banish me away forever because I make one mistake? No. Does that mean Tseng has to become an anal bastard and make me feel terrible about saying it? No. It's one thing to point out a person's mistake, it's another thing to constantly ride them about it and blow it out of proportion, like I've just said something that will cause the end of all life on the planet.

[HoudiniMan]

Originally posted by konidias
Yes I'm sure I could have worded it better, but does that mean you should banish me away forever because I make one mistake? No. Does that mean Tseng has to become an anal bastard and make me feel terrible about saying it? No. It's one thing to point out a person's mistake, it's another thing to constantly ride them about it and blow it out of proportion, like I've just said something that will cause the end of all life on the planet.

I don't think you need to be ridden, but posting in revision that they still have to follow the general graal rules would have been very beneficial for clarity's sake

Originally posted by Christian
(where does the PWA get the rules from?)

We make the rules but Stefan and Unixmad can also pass down rules by all means. Most of the time they only make a rule if it's to fix a problem like servers using certain GK graphics and what not. But the rest of the rules governing things like not being a high admin on two servers is our department.

[Christian]

write down all rules and make it public at graal.net.
owners could say that there is no place where the rules are written down so there are no rules

[HoudiniMan]

Originally posted by Christian
write down all rules and make it public at graal.net.
owners could say that there is no place where the rules are written down so there are no rules

We're in the process of making a new set of rules