I want a official announcement by the owners of GK

Soul-Blade · #1 06-19-2003, 11:31 PM

I want a official announcement regarding the legality of scamming, by Stefan and/or Unixmad. In the past, the have stated it legal, and in the rules it states illegal (though it is obviously for bomy moon).

I want a announcement, clearly stating if scamming is legal or not outside of secure trades, using no bugs or glitches, or hacks, to the players advantage.

I care not for the posters opinion on this, because you all have scammed at one point or another, and if you say otherwise you are obviously a liar, aside from the about 5% of non scammers.

Lyndzey · #2 06-19-2003, 11:38 PM

Can you not find the thread where you claimed Stean said scamming is legal?

I don't remember reading anywhere that scamming is legal (although it can't be proven in some cases) and I haven't been able to find a thread about it.

Quote:

Taxe have been made to be part of the role playing system, if you don't want to use the secure trading then don't complain, because not only it's your fault but you don't help the role playing system.

This was said a long time ago. I watched a trade because I know that Tifa lost 40,000 platinum coins using the trading tables and another guy lost 14,000 platinum coins. Had I not heard of these bugs, I would have used secure trading (although I would not call these buggy trading tables secure yet).

Soul-Blade · #3 06-19-2003, 11:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lyndzey
Can you not find the thread where you claimed Stean said scamming is legal?

I don't remember reading anywhere that scamming is legal (although it can't be proven in some cases) and I haven't been able to find a thread about it.

I have already said Stefan said it was legal to me on debug. If I had access to logs on RC chat, I could show you.

Read your PMs, I gave you one thread where Unix has said it was legal, there are others but does not matter.

This thread I have posted will settle everything.

Soul-Blade · #4 06-19-2003, 11:45 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lyndzey

This was said a long time ago. I watched a trade because I know that Tifa lost 40,000 platinum coins using the trading tables and another guy lost 14,000 platinum coins. Had I not heard of these bugs, I would have used secure trading (although I would not call these buggy trading tables secure yet).

Then you should have waited, but you did not wait, and put yourself at risk. Any player has that risk, yourself included. The average player cannot secure a insecure trading by saying "Scam me, I ban you", so you should not either. He broke no rules, and you used a function other players cannot use, for purposes other then what they were meant for.

zell12 · #5 06-19-2003, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Soul-Blade

I have already said Stefan said it was legal to me on debug. If I had access to logs on RC chat, I could show you.

Read your PMs, I gave you one thread where Unix has said it was legal, there are others but does not matter.

This thread I have posted will settle everything.

RClogs don't record chat nub.

Lyndzey · #6 06-20-2003, 12:00 AM

I'm not going to bother arguing with you. I'm an administrator and I shouldn't be arguing with the players.

You know what? Go ahead and see what Stefan and unixmad have to say about it. Go ahead and win. I really don't mind you going to all this trouble to prove a point. Maybe I was right, maybe I was wrong, but WHO CARES? It's going to be forgotten in a few weeks. Sure, I might be considered corrupt now. But I won't let that interfere with how I do my accounts admin job.

DenoriZakarum · #7 06-20-2003, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by zell12

RClogs don't record chat nub.

Zell, he didnt call for your crap, you coulda pmed him that they didnt recor dlogs but you didnt have to call him a "nub" and isnt bypassing the swear filter agsint the rules?

zell12 · #8 06-20-2003, 12:13 AM

Hey, you don't even know what nub means. Brad and proky made the word up, so we use it. Besides, which, I have the right to reply to any thread posted here because this is a public community center.

Soul-Blade · #9 06-20-2003, 01:06 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lyndzey
I'm not going to bother arguing with you. I'm an administrator and I shouldn't be arguing with the players.

You know what? Go ahead and see what Stefan and unixmad have to say about it. Go ahead and win. I really don't mind you going to all this trouble to prove a point. Maybe I was right, maybe I was wrong, but WHO CARES? It's going to be forgotten in a few weeks. Sure, I might be considered corrupt now. But I won't let that interfere with how I do my accounts admin job.

I'm not much of a player

Try reading your PMs. I believe I sent you this one:

I was exagerating a bit, you are not extremely corrupt and do a fine job at your position. I have also heard alot of good things from you, from people like BlKnight.. but this is not right. He should at least be unbanned now. I only say this because I hate to see staff members put above players when the staff are playing a game where all have the equal resources to get stronger, which means no they should not get free items, and no they should not ban people for personal gain.

I agree with the banning if justice was the rule on Graal, but it isn't. Stefan and unixmad have stated, on the forums and directly to me, that any items dropped are no longer your items. Meaning it is legal for anyone to grab your items if you drop them, and all because you are global staff does not mean you deserve to be put above the players in the playing area.

The first paragraph is pretty darn clear.

zell12 · #10 06-20-2003, 02:10 AM

Any special-case adjustments are tempary, and if what you say is true, about what Unixmad said, then he has to change it in the Code of Conduct (the exception of scaming on GK).

Admins · #11 06-20-2003, 03:30 AM

Didn't know there is anything unclear about the 'scamming'.

Abusing bugs or glitches is illegal.

Stealing things, if not explicitely allowed like on 'gangster'-servers, is not allowed either. On Graal Kingdoms this is not possible.

Abusing the fact that someone is missing information: Normally this can only be prevented by telling the people what ways of trading exist, what prizes are ok etc. It can sometimes be unfair if new players get scammed this way. In those cases normally the kingdoms should find ways of doing something against the scammers, since its more a social problem than a technical problem.

About the secure trading tables: I only know one problem, that is when the trade is accepted the item cannot be picked up. This can happen when it's too heavy, or when you have a bag opened which cannot hold the item. This problem is not easy to solve, but I will try. You can send me a forum PM when you lost an item that way, there are detailled logs.

wonderboysp2p · #12 06-20-2003, 03:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by zell12
Hey, you don't even know what nub means. Brad and proky made the word up, so we use it. Besides, which, I have the right to reply to any thread posted here because this is a public community center.

LIES!!!! me and chris discovered nubs while playing tetris in study hall... chris said "hey look when mario jumps you can see his nub!!" hence forth i called ppl nubs and made fun of their nubs... it is anything BUT a word made up by the evil Porky(rax) or BRAD( ...brad) i give no one the right to use my word... myself excluded... and my friends... like... well yea those friends i wishi i had

TripleE · #13 06-20-2003, 03:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Soul-Blade

I'm not much of a player

Try reading your PMs. I believe I sent you this one:

I was exagerating a bit, you are not extremely corrupt and do a fine job at your position. I have also heard alot of good things from you, from people like BlKnight.. but this is not right. He should at least be unbanned now. I only say this because I hate to see staff members put above players when the staff are playing a game where all have the equal resources to get stronger, which means no they should not get free items, and no they should not ban people for personal gain.

I agree with the banning if justice was the rule on Graal, but it isn't. Stefan and unixmad have stated, on the forums and directly to me, that any items dropped are no longer your items. Meaning it is legal for anyone to grab your items if you drop them, and all because you are global staff does not mean you deserve to be put above the players in the playing area.

The first paragraph is pretty darn clear.

What she did was fine. She wanted to resolve a situation that was unclear if it was legal or illigal. You have no right saying she is corrupt seeing how she was being fair by getting rid of someone who ruins the game. You dont call someone corrupt for banning a hacker do you?Lyndzey is probably the most fair and just,and mature admin ive seen on graal yet.

Soul-Blade · #14 06-20-2003, 04:02 AM

Well, if scamming is illegal, this banning was perfectly legit, and I am sorry.

As far as what Stefan says, thanks alot Stefan. You have always told me scamming was legal, and I have seen posts by you and unixmad supporting that. I don't care if scamming was legal or not, the fact is on debug you have always told me it is. I only want to see the rules enforced by staff like Lyndzey, and you have made me look like a fool in trying to do that.

You have changed what you have always told me, and what I was going by, and now it looks bad. Thanks alot.

As for that other guy - Are you a *****? That PM I showed clearly stated I DID NOT find lynzdey corrupt, but I (recently, no longer now) disagreed with Lyndzey's actions. Please work on your interpretive skills, they are clearly lacking.

zell12 · #15 06-20-2003, 05:38 AM

Stefan is like saying scaming is legal but it isn't. Just tell us. IS SCAMING LEGAL OR NOT? That way, we can send reports to Tyhm and the team when they are in place so we can get the scamers punished.

Soul-Blade · #16 06-20-2003, 05:54 AM

I just talked with Stefan about it, and he said scamming is illegal when you use a bug, glitch, or trainer. Also when you tell newbies false information concerning the game. He says, if you grab a item someone dropped, scamming is not illegal.

So as it turns out, I was correct. But it doesn't matter anymore, I was to harsh to Lyndzey and I am sorry about that.

DragonX · #17 06-20-2003, 06:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Soul-Blade
He says, if you grab a item someone dropped, scamming is not illegal.

I am sure he means that if someone is messing around and drops something and someone else picks it up, thats not scamming, but if both parties are engaging in a trade and one user fails to comply with the trade, that is illegal and they should be punished.

DenoriZakarum · #18 06-20-2003, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DragonX

I am sure he means that if someone is messing around and drops something and someone else picks it up, thats not scamming, but if both parties are engaging in a trade and one user fails to comply with the trade, that is illegal and they should be punished.

he didnt specify it, so for now, scamming is legal

Soul-Blade · #19 06-20-2003, 07:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DragonX

I am sure he means that if someone is messing around and drops something and someone else picks it up, thats not scamming, but if both parties are engaging in a trade and one user fails to comply with the trade, that is illegal and they should be punished.

I asked Stefan specifically, and that is what he told me. If you drop something, doesn't matter the circumstance, then you no longer own it.

zell12 · #20 06-20-2003, 09:05 AM

you are twisting his words and you can get banned for lieing.

Soul-Blade · #21 06-20-2003, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by zell12
you are twisting his words and you can get banned for lieing.

Do you work on debug? Did you ask Stefan to be more specific on the scamming situation? Didn't think so. I do, and I did. Now shut your mouth...(people should be able to tell from this one of the reasons Excalibur was removed from debug ;-))

TripleE · #22 06-21-2003, 03:07 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Soul-Blade

Do you work on debug? Did you ask Stefan to be more specific on the scamming situation? Didn't think so. I do, and I did. Now shut your mouth...(people should be able to tell from this one of the reasons Excalibur was removed from debug ;-))

Why the hell do you make a big deal about this? You have stated that it is already cleared up on the circumstances.

protagonist · #23 06-21-2003, 03:47 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DenoriZakarum

he didnt specify it, so for now, scamming is legal

Yes, and I bet that's music to your ears lamer.

Soul-Blade · #24 06-21-2003, 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TripleE

Why the hell do you make a big deal about this? You have stated that it is already cleared up on the circumstances.

Well, I am just not one to stand by and watch a injustice unfold, especially when everyone is to blind/bias to see that it is indeed a injustice. I will make a big deal out of anything like that, big or small.

zell12 · #25 06-21-2003, 06:34 AM

And THAT is why you should be removed. Constantly turning my words around to make them into nastly things then you tell stefan how bad I am at debug and get my fired. Wow, congradulations. I don't care.

Besides which, you cannot say stefan said anything on debug unless he says it here himself.

DenoriZakarum · #26 06-21-2003, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by zell12
And THAT is why you should be removed. Constantly turning my words around to make them into nastly things then you tell stefan how bad I am at debug and get my fired. Wow, congradulations. I don't care.

Besides which, you cannot say stefan said anything on debug unless he says it here himself.

and you cant say he didnt say it ubnless he posts her, and yes protagonist, it will bring me much fun in the future

protagonist · #27 06-21-2003, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Soul-Blade
stuff

Mhmm, and why people don't lame the hell out of Denori while blacklisting him from their kingdoms escapes me. If there truelly is such a thing as justice in this game, I think that people who steal shoud be punished.

Quote:

and you cant say he didnt say it ubnless he posts her, and yes protagonist, it will bring me much fun in the future

You have given me another reason to believe in God. Because if God truelly exists then so too does hell, which is where you will be spending eternity. Theif.

Soul-Blade · #28 06-21-2003, 08:05 PM

You people are idiots. There are people that PK, constantly, NEVER leaving you alone (Anu, Alex_6, just about every other powerful person) which brings you down hours of work.

Do you want them banned? There is a safegaurd to that, of course. Peaceful mode. The cost? You make 75% of the experience.

Scamming is something I look at as equal to PKing. Many people do it, and it is not retricted by a level. Safe gaurd? Trading tables and secure trade. Price? Taxes in secure trade, and occasional loss of items in trading tables. That, or loose everything possibly in unsecure trade.

You make the choice, just like you make the choice when you go into battle mode. You can blaim NOONE but youself when you get scammed, because you were the one who wasn't smart enough to use the safegaurds.

zell12 · #29 06-21-2003, 09:58 PM

Scaming is illegal in real life and is in this game. Please just give up and stop this.

protagonist · #30 06-21-2003, 11:14 PM

I hate scammers. Theft is theft.

Lyndzey · #31 06-21-2003, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lyndzey
I'm not going to bother arguing with you. I'm an administrator and I shouldn't be arguing with the players.

You know what? Go ahead and see what Stefan and unixmad have to say about it. Go ahead and win. I really don't mind you going to all this trouble to prove a point. Maybe I was right, maybe I was wrong, but WHO CARES? It's going to be forgotten in a few weeks. Sure, I might be considered corrupt now. But I won't let that interfere with how I do my accounts admin job.

Erm, I already said I really don't care what the outcome is of this situation.

protagonist · #32 06-21-2003, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Lyndzey

Erm, I already said I really don't care what the outcome is of this situation.

Are you arguing with yourself?

Lyndzey · #33 06-21-2003, 11:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by protagonist

Are you arguing with yourself?

I was quoting myself so people would stop arguing over something I did when I don't even care about it right now.

DenoriZakarum · #34 06-22-2003, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by protagonist

You have given me another reason to believe in God. Because if God truelly exists then so too does hell, which is where you will be spending eternity. Theif.

dude, that is not freakin right, i act like this on the game, not in real life, im probably the nicest person you will ever meet if you ever met me in life, that really isnt right....

zell12 · #35 06-22-2003, 03:56 AM

Here is a pm I dug up from long ago by stefan:

Quote:

Originally said by Stefan in a PM to Excalibur
When you post wrong information and lies again then i will need to disable your account here.

So becareful what you say stefan says.

protagonist · #36 06-22-2003, 04:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DenoriZakarum

dude, that is not freakin right, i act like this on the game, not in real life, im probably the nicest person you will ever meet if you ever met me in life, that really isnt right....

Theft is theft.

DenoriZakarum · #37 06-22-2003, 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by protagonist

Theft is theft.

not the theft part, the being in hell part

Lyndzey · #38 06-22-2003, 04:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DenoriZakarum

not the theft part, the being in hell part

What he's saying is that if you steal, you will be sent to hell. Although you stole in a game, "theft is theft."