Selling items not legal

Admins · #1 05-12-2003, 06:20 PM

Some people tried to sell in-game items for real money. The problem is that many of those offers are made by scammers and so it's real crime to do that. We don't allow selling items in the game. Your account will be banned if you do so.
You can of course still do it outside of Graal, but we don't take any responsibility for that.

melissa1988 · #2 05-12-2003, 06:29 PM

wtf? that's stupid to do. haha I'll give you 2 dollars for your lizard sword!

People are stupid these days.

AlexH · #3 05-12-2003, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by melissa1988
wtf? that's stupid to do. haha I'll give you 2 dollars for your lizard sword!

People are stupid these days.

There have always been stupid people.

But it's nice now we have an offical rule about selling items.

Spark910 · #4 05-12-2003, 07:44 PM

I dont know why people would want to waste their money outside of graal for some little item on a game. Then again, you could make alot of money of 'Mew' when it was first new.

Satrek2000 · #5 05-12-2003, 07:52 PM

The problem is that people will complain when they get scammed for real money after they were scammed that way - I think this rule is mainly to prevent people from sueing Graal for their own stupidity and the lack of safetrade in real life - as if they'd use it in-game to prevent scam...

Kaimetsu · #6 05-12-2003, 08:00 PM

I assume this extends to the forums as well? If so, I guess we can add it to the new to-be-proposed ruleset.

mhermher · #7 05-12-2003, 09:54 PM

Thank god Stefan!
I've tryed to explain to the stupid players that sells items for real money..

i finally got that Infinite banned for doing so, after warning him o er 50 times.

Tim26 · #8 05-12-2003, 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mhermher
Thank god Stefan!
I've tryed to explain to the stupid players that sells items for real money..

i finally got that Infinite banned for doing so, after warning him o er 50 times.

Hes online right now...

mhermher · #9 05-13-2003, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Tim26

Hes online right now...

He had 2 accounts, both are banned.

Qwert616 · #10 05-13-2003, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by melissa1988
wtf? that's stupid to do. haha I'll give you 2 dollars for your lizard sword!

People are stupid these days.

Someone was on yesterday massing practically the entire day. He was trying to sell some kind of plate mail for 20$.

zell12 · #11 05-13-2003, 01:35 AM

This is not in the code of conduct, so I think you cannot make up rules on the spot or you could be charged. I dunno.

Anyway, Brad, Porky, and Boukon were never banned, Infinite never knew it was illegal, and how could he trust some ***** like that guy? Unban him. :o

Milkdude99 · #12 05-13-2003, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by zell12
This is not in the code of conduct, so I think you cannot make up rules on the spot or you could be charged. I dunno.

Anyway, Brad, Porky, and Boukon were never banned, Infinite never knew it was illegal, and how could he trust some ***** like that guy? Unban him. :o

Yes it is , its called a "catch all clause". Under 21. Miscellaneous you will find this...

Quote:

GraalOnline reserves the right to make special-case adjustments to its policies and the steps it takes concerning violation of these policies.

Maybe you should read the code of conduct a little more closely. Remember life’s not fair and there are no friends in business.

zell12 · #13 05-13-2003, 02:03 AM

It can make adjustments to the policies already there, but they can't make up rules without making it offical.

Milkdude99 · #14 05-13-2003, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by zell12
It can make adjustments to the policies already there, but they can't make up rules without making it offical.

No that means in legal terms they can add or delete at will for any reason and that is why it is there and why I called it a "catch- all". They have the right to make policy and adjusting policy may mean adding a rule or removing a rule. Adjusting policy does not mean they are limited to changing existing rules, it also means they can add or remove or just modify. Welcome to the world of legalities and loopholes and why lawyers make contracts for things we don't see and or understand. And I am sure Lawyers for Graal looked over these rules and had things worded in a certain way for a reason and now you are seeing why this is done in this way.

Googi · #15 05-13-2003, 02:34 AM

Well, the code of conduct also says that they can ban you as they please, so really, whatever they say is illegal is illegal whether they write it or not.

Androk · #16 05-13-2003, 02:52 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Stefan
Some people tried to sell in-game items for real money. The problem is that many of those offers are made by scammers and so it's real crime to do that. We don't allow selling items in the game. Your account will be banned if you do so.
You can of course still do it outside of Graal, but we don't take any responsibility for that.

I don't understand how come you, as creaters of teh game, don't offer purchase of items in game for real money. It would be a smart move as managers, and you could offer rare items for $5, which is an acceptable price.

Anyway, that's just my buisnessman side talking, sorry, I am going to earn a living with ideas like that =P

ReaperJ · #17 05-13-2003, 03:30 AM

Well because graal is unstable, frankly i have no faith in the server at all. I do not invest much time in the game anymore other than staing on and chatting to people.

Hell try something like selling your character or account like some people do on diablo 2 , next thing you know before the sale comes to an end your character gets bumped to level 1 physical before the sale due to some bug.

All in all graal is too unstable to be selling anything really. They could expect some lawsuits if one bought an item for money on a game and the person lost it.

Also i would expet it to become an IRL legal matter if someone stole your item on a game taht you paid for to the creators of the game with actual money. just like its illegal IRL to steal someones account they paid for, i would assume it would be just as illegal to steal someoens items on that account if they were to have paid for them with IRL money...

however i coudl be wrong, who knows..

-Albus · #18 05-13-2003, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Androk

I don't understand how come you, as creaters of teh game, don't offer purchase of items in game for real money. It would be a smart move as managers, and you could offer rare items for $5, which is an acceptable price.

Anyway, that's just my buisnessman side talking, sorry, I am going to earn a living with ideas like that =P

Stuff like that would probably ruin the in game economy because there are actually people out to buy these things.

zell12 · #19 05-13-2003, 06:00 AM

Life isn't fair, I wish I had a lawer, I'd make some stuff up and sue unixmad for 5 cents.

mhermher · #20 05-13-2003, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by zell12
This is not in the code of conduct, so I think you cannot make up rules on the spot or you could be charged. I dunno.

Anyway, Brad, Porky, and Boukon were never banned, Infinite never knew it was illegal, and how could he trust some ***** like that guy? Unban him. :o

I told him i was staff and it\s illegal several times, he took the risk, he got the punishment.

syltburk · #21 05-13-2003, 12:05 PM

Rofl aint that just to funny?

ive seen some masses lately like

" 20 USD for this awesome item "

guys i would just pay it for platinums on GRAAL instead

Satrek2000 · #22 05-13-2003, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Androk
I don't understand how come you, as creaters of teh game, don't offer purchase of items in game for real money. It would be a smart move as managers, and you could offer rare items for $5, which is an acceptable price.

Rare items for 5$ wouldn't be rare. "Poor" players or those who don't have money to pay more for a game they already paid for to play will have a disadvantage. If someone gets scammed, the server bug eats an item or someone loses it in any way, people will ***** like "I paid for that, give it back" and they'd have to do it, removing rescources from further server improvement and stuff. Not worth the money, the trouble and the damage on the server, if you ask me.

zell12 · #23 05-13-2003, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mhermher

I told him i was staff and it\s illegal several times, he took the risk, he got the punishment.

Listen son, you are not staff. You are not special. You volunteer your time to make things for the debug server, which is then moved to the main one.

Really though, stop thinking your special when you talk to people on GK, because you are not.

Projectshifter · #24 05-13-2003, 11:21 PM

Cali:
LOL, I do recall you trying the whole "I am staff" thing once before

He has a right to be happy about what he has done. And he is "staff" as much as "staff" can be for GK. I really don't think it's that big of a deal, but to those who do get to make things for a "main/company server" should have a right to be proud of what they do/have done.

In general:
I dunno, I think this is stupid x-x I have sold MANY things (many months ago) after Stefan specifically stated it was okay. None of my customers were ever scammed or unhappy, but oh well. In that case, to sell something that means you can mass "Send me an IM on <screenname here> if you are interested in purchasing items for USD <or other currency>"? It is not selling in-game, merely inviting a chance to talk. But anyway, it's not that big of a deal. I would NEVER pay money for items, but I would most certainly accept it if it was offered for an intangible item... I mean, who wouldn't?
---Shifter

mhermher · #25 05-14-2003, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by zell12

Listen son, you are not staff. You are not special. You volunteer your time to make things for the debug server, which is then moved to the main one.

Really though, stop thinking your special when you talk to people on GK, because you are not.

Umm, Debug is GK work server, it's part of GK, but it's hidden for players.. shown to staff, since i can see it, i am staff.

You should know this -_-
I have no right to say i'm staff? Who said i have to keep it secret, and i'm not trying to brag, i'm trying to get the players to listen to me, because if i don't say i'm staff they will ignore me..

zell12 · #26 05-14-2003, 03:21 AM

You don't need to say your staff to get people to listen to you. If they don't, that must mean they don't like you. Yesh. I also seen people being pked and saying they would ban the person cause they are staff on debug, or if they are scamed.

mhermher · #27 05-14-2003, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by zell12
You don't need to say your staff to get people to listen to you. If they don't, that must mean they don't like you. Yesh. I also seen people being pked and saying they would ban the person cause they are staff on debug, or if they are scamed.

So have i, and i was suprised.

I do not want the players to be banned, i want to get them to understand that i'm serious, and by that i have to mention my rank.

Kaimetsu · #28 05-14-2003, 10:09 AM

Developers don't really have any administrative power. You're no more qualified to threaten people than any other player.

mhermher · #29 05-14-2003, 10:43 AM

Kai, i haven't threaten anyone.. i told infinite to stop selling things over 20 times, i told him i was staff and have to report him if he continues.

He did not care, and suffered the consequences. (sp?)

Kaimetsu · #30 05-14-2003, 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mhermher
Kai, i haven't threaten anyone.. i told infinite to stop selling things over 20 times, i told him i was staff and have to report him if he continues.

So you threatened to report him, no? My point is that your staff position was irrelevant to this threat.

syltburk · #31 05-14-2003, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kaimetsu

So you threatened to report him, no? My point is that your staff position was irrelevant to this threat.

If u saw somebody do anything illegal, would u let it go and let nobody now, or do something about it and try helping graal? makin graal to a better place

Kaimetsu · #32 05-14-2003, 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by syltburk
If u saw somebody do anything illegal, would u let it go and let nobody now, or do something about it and try helping graal? makin graal to a better place

Please try to think before posting. I did not tell him that he should not intervene, I am merely arguing that his staff position is irrelevant to those interventions.

syltburk · #33 05-14-2003, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kaimetsu

Please try to think before posting. I did not tell him that he should not intervene, I am merely arguing that his staff position is irrelevant to those interventions.

'

oh im sorry i thought u were arguging about threatining him, i guess i understood wrong then?

mhermher · #34 05-14-2003, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kaimetsu

So you threatened to report him, no? My point is that your staff position was irrelevant to this threat.

No
I didn't threat to report him.. i said if he continues, i have to report him, but i didn't want to, but he didn't listen to me..

Kaimetsu · #35 05-14-2003, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mhermher
No
I didn't threat to report him

Quote:

i said if he continues, i have to report him

I think you need to check the definition of the word 'threaten'.

In any case, you're taking the argument off topic. Making graphics for the server (or whatever you do) does not give you any more administrative clout than any other person.

mhermher · #36 05-14-2003, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kaimetsu

I think you need to check the definition of the word 'threaten'.

In any case, you're taking the argument off topic. Making graphics for the server (or whatever you do) does not give you any more administrative clout than any other person.

Perhaps, english is my fourth language, but i know what you mean..

And i would still warn him if i wassn't dev. on GK, but since i am, people listen to me better.. it have nothing with power to do.

Kaimetsu · #37 05-14-2003, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mhermher
And i would still warn him if i wassn't dev. on GK, but since i am, people listen to me better..

And tell me: Why do you think that is?

mhermher · #38 05-14-2003, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kaimetsu

And tell me: Why do you think that is?

Because people don't justen to some nobody who just says that and that...

I said i was staff, so he would listen to me..

This is pointless, just let this argument die.

Kaimetsu · #39 05-15-2003, 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mhermher
Because people don't justen to some nobody who just says that and that...

And why do you think that is?

finChY · #40 05-15-2003, 02:56 AM

Tyrial...being staff doesnt really change the way people will treat,or respect what you say. Your probably not really considered "staff". Staff I think is someone who Stefan hired to do a certain project,or work. You were probably hired by your kingdom to help out. I may be wrong though.