Casting time for many spells is still too long.

[Locke_boy]

Icestorm, buring hands, frostbolt, firebolt, lightning, anything that has the little pink light effect ..

They all take FAR too long to cast!

A good casting time? The time it takes to cast magic bullet, bullet storm, mana blast, snowstorm, fireball ..

The casting time is quick, but still disables the user long enough for someone else to cancel out the spell.

All the spells I list up top (and others) become useless in duels, because all the fighters move INCREDIBLY fast, and run up to and slash me before I finish charging.

Or, hey, here's an idea..

.. why not make it so that as you level in magic/wisdom, casting time takes less time? Hmmm...

[MasterNuke]

I remember sudgesting this a while ago x.x

[Locke_boy]

Many have, they just keep ignoring us ..

[Kaiser2]

Yar, most suggestions need 10 or more threads before they land on someone's ears... I think most spells should be enacted like if you use a "rod of something".
No spell animation, no pretty pink lights, just the spell effects occuring (like a bullet appearing.)

[zell12]

Yes, spell casting should be as fast as magic bullet, or even right away.

[--Chris--]

Errm...they're fast enough and those spells like ice storm and burning hands are really deadly as it is and you can successfully cast almost always without being hit...Did I mention there's rods for them that make them cast instantly?

[Kaiser2]

Rods for stronger spells don't exist/are nearly impossible to get.
Truly, I'm not a magic user, but I'm for this.
On another note, evildievils and evilheavils should not be able to cast spells so fast...it's like I'm hit by 5 spells and nearly die so fast...also because their spells do double damage.

[Tyhm]

I'd like to see Storage Wands.

When empty - cast any spell and it charges, but does not fire.
When full - press S to release the stored spells in the order they were prepared.

Thus a mage must have time and foresight to prepare the right spells, rather than just having insane armor and distance to be able to stand far enough away from their quarry so as not to be sliced in half but yet close enough that their spell still hits.

[Kaiser2]

I like that idea a lot, like if they're having a mage battle, you can hide behind a table, charge bullet storm into your wand and jump out while blasting your enemy with bullet storm.

[kenyonandelliot]

With the rods instead of making it be able to be casted forever there should be something like you used it 10 times. Then you have to wait for it to charge so it won't be like fast PKing against slow people or blah blah blah. Or an other idea is like theirs a building in lets say Bomboria. It costs like a couple plats and he will recharge it and it will be faster then waiting for spell points to go up. Heres my opinion!

[Locke_boy]

YOU PEOPLE AGAINST FASTER CASTING, LISTEN (or look or something).

You. Go into the dueling arena.

PM Boukon Malisous, DragonX, --Chris--, Taharu, Natey, Infinite .. someone strong. Tell them you want to duel.

Tell them you are going to only use magic, and that they can use whatever they'd like.

Now.

Duel.

You

will

die.

If you don't believe me, do best out of ten. You will do horribly.

How do I know this?

I'm a Mage. I don't use weapons. I only cast spells. I lose. A LOT. Why? Because people are fast, and casting is slow. I go to cast, they go to slash, my spell is cancelled out. Oh, and no, I'm not slow. My speed is 2.3 or so .. (and will be faster soon thanks to Natey).

I can't even cast "magic missile" without being killed.

LOVELY, NO?

:: walks away mumbling ::

[Kaimetsu]

Dudes, mages aren't supposed to engage in one-on-one duels with fighters. They're more like support characters.

[Kaiser2]

Mages, outside the duling arena, are very powerful...most of my war tactics for defense involve the use of mages...lots of mages.

[Locke_boy]

Originally posted by Kaimetsu
Dudes, mages aren't supposed to engage in one-on-one duels with fighters. They're more like support characters.

Yes, that is true, but just the same .. they should be able to hold their own in a one-on-one duel.

[zell12]

Yes, it is unfair. They can outrun us, and the spells. They can also cancel our spells when we cast forcing us to wait out the length of the gani -- being stuck stucks.

I think spell casting should have no time.

[Satrek2000]

Or at least make it possible to move while casting - even when that measn to lose the spell, it's better than lose your life. Apart from that I, too, think the casting times are too long...

[DragonX]

Originally posted by zell12
I think spell casting should have no time.

I am all for that suggestion if they tone down the damage to back to what it was before. Doing 2x damage and not waiting at all is bs.

[Kaiser2]

Yeah, what DX said...but I think the stronger spells should still be slightly slower, because..if you can pull off 5 create bombs and regen mana quickly, well, then your opponent is screwed.

[Satrek2000]

Maybe the spells' speed should depend on the mage's level above the spell's level... or something... say, a lv10 spell used by a lv10 mage is twice as fast as it is today - then, for the next 10 levels up, it goes faster, till it's almost instantly at level 20...

[Kaiser2]

But then you'll need like a new, shorter gani for every 10 levels in magic, basically, then you need to do the scripting, etc.

[Satrek2000]

Originally posted by Kaiser2
But then you'll need like a new, shorter gani for every 10 levels in magic, basically, then you need to do the scripting, etc.

Hm... maybe you could use a shorter gani, with say 1/10 the length it takes now - and loop it 10-((magic-level)-(spell-level)) times... I don't know whether that's practicable, but it sounds easier than producing 9 copies for each spell-gani...

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by Locke_boy
Yes, that is true, but just the same .. they should be able to hold their own in a one-on-one duel.

Why? All characters should be exactly as good in every discipline or something? The whole point of having separate classes is that they are all different.

[Satrek2000]

Originally posted by Kaimetsu
Why? All characters should be exactly as good in every discipline or something? The whole point of having separate classes is that they are all different.

Different in ways and means, yes - but different in power, so that one class can own the other? I wouldn't think so...

[--Chris--]

Errm...evildievels and such cast just as fast as humans. Also...time should stay on healing prayers like heal, cure poison etc...This idea is stupid, it's fast enough. Seriously...if this was implied people like head could hold down a hotkey for a spell and cast constantly without running out of SP e_e

[Locke_boy]

Originally posted by --Chris--
if this was implied people like head could hold down a hotkey for a spell and cast constantly without running out of SP e_e

What?

[Kaiser2]

Monsters should not cast as fast as humans, c'mon, they're monsters!

[Tyhm]

Plus they never seem to run out of MP...

[Kaiser2]

That's because they have none, well, that's not correct, what is correct is that they have <><> (think of that as an infinity symbol)

[DragonX]

Originally posted by Kaiser2
That's because they have none, well, that's not correct, what is correct is that they have <><> (think of that as an infinity symbol)

Hmm that makes me wonder, what happens if I cast magic drain on them...do I get infinite magic =O wow

[Kaiser2]

it won't work, because technically, they have no mana, it's like a command that lets them use the spells over and over, but if putting it into "player" terms, I'd have to say they have a limitless amount of mana (casting mana drain on them would do nothing.)

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by Satrek2000
Different in ways and means, yes - but different in power, so that one class can own the other? I wouldn't think so...

It's all about contexts, dude. Mages beat warriors in some, warriors beat mages in others.

[Satrek2000]

Originally posted by Kaimetsu
It's all about contexts, dude. Mages beat warriors in some, warriors beat mages in others.

Maybe mages are more powerful in times of war, on a "real" battlefield, but as it is now they aren't in tue arenas... so why not make spells twice as fast and give them half damage for it, to give mages a better chance to survive in the arena - not getting stabbed while charging. It'd weaken mages on other fields but even out the overall difference - that mages can't duel, that is...

[Kaimetsu]

Originally posted by Satrek2000
Maybe mages are more powerful in times of war, on a "real" battlefield, but as it is now they aren't in tue arenas... so why not make spells twice as fast and give them half damage for it, to give mages a better chance to survive in the arena

Would you please listen? The whole point of classes is to differentiate between play styles. Making every class have the same competence in every situation is a clear breach of that objective! There are pros, there are cons, they balance out overall but in specific situations some are better than others. Do you even understand the concept of a support class?

[Satrek2000]

Originally posted by Kaimetsu
Would you please listen? The whole point of classes is to differentiate between play styles. Making every class have the same competence in every situation is a clear breach of that objective! There are pros, there are cons, they balance out overall but in specific situations some are better than others. Do you even understand the concept of a support class?

No, I failed to learn understandin five times in a row... Anyway, I think that duels are much more common that wars. Hence, having no chance in a duel is more of a disadvantega than a better chance in a war is an advantage. That's all I'm saying.

[Locke_boy]

Hey, what about this ..

.. a Mage can choose to follow two paths ..

.. faster casting, but weaker spells ..

.. or slower casting, but stronger spells.

It's just an idea. I don't know if I like it myself, but I thought of it, and .. well. I'm just trying to stop this argument between Satrek and Kaimetsu. :|

[Tyhm]

What would balance this is if a mage could make friends with a knight or a barbarian, and thenafter that friend is always available to help on dungeoncrawls. When the player is offline, a petlike NPC replaces them. The knight NPC moves always to a position roughly 10 paces in front of the wizard and attacks anything that threatens his friend; the wizard NPC follows 10 paces behind the knight and casts whenever he hits max mana or whenever the knight is in deep trouble. Partied for all intents and purposes, the knight and wizard both get experience even when offline from this venture...but if you gain experience I suppose you stand to lose by dying, so perhaps no gain and no loss to prevent false friends getting you killed and stealing your stuff.

Still. That would be cool.

[Satrek2000]

Hm... Knight- and Wizzard-Pets? Can you get them to bread?
Anyway, Tyhm's idea would be good for a single-player game, maybe an offline GK (which would suck in terms of the general idea).
I like locke's idea, though

[Tyhm]

I'm talking online though. It's silly to say "Everyone should just party, then the dungeons will be balanced" when most people meet only one or two players in their life who are willing to dungeoncrawl with them. If all players who want to dungeoncrawl log off at the dungeon and their NPCs gladly help out anyone who's going in, there will always be someone (player or NPC) to party with your wizard and act as Meat Shield. If all players in a kingdom log off at the kingdom wall, there will never be a time during which everyone in the kingdom is asleep and thus they're undefended.

[Judge_S]

Originally posted by Locke_boy
Icestorm, buring hands, frostbolt, firebolt, lightning, anything that has the little pink light effect ..
They all take FAR too long to cast!

For the record, I have no problem with the casting time for Icestorm, minor healing, and create food (these are the only spells/prayers that I have that pertain to this). Stand about 7-10 tiles away from a Dievel/Smoky/Hievel/Foggy, and other monsters of that speed, and you'll get the spell cast no problem. Icestorm also works wonders against gangs of Gloks.
The same principle, for the tile-length away, goes for minor healing as well, and I guess all the other spells that have "the little pink light effect."

Duels typically call for physical contact, in my opinion, unless they are "wizard duels," so pitting a physical-type class like a warrior, and a spell-type class like a sorceror in a duel, is a stupid idea. Then again, if you are quite skilled in casting spells and duelling with them, then a sorceror can be a formidable opponent.

[Satrek2000]

Originally posted by Tyhm
I'm talking online though. It's silly to say "Everyone should just party, then the dungeons will be balanced" when most people meet only one or two players in their life who are willing to dungeoncrawl with them. If all players who want to dungeoncrawl log off at the dungeon and their NPCs gladly help out anyone who's going in, there will always be someone (player or NPC) to party with your wizard and act as Meat Shield. If all players in a kingdom log off at the kingdom wall, there will never be a time during which everyone in the kingdom is asleep and thus they're undefended.

Sunds okay so far - but where would one make friends with such a faithful helper? And, given two players go into the dungeon, how would the server know who would lend his NPC to whom?