Use common sense, people.

Dude6252000 · #1 04-18-2003, 12:54 AM

From here on, and before, people have "stolen" things people drop on the ground. This includes scamming. A lot of people don't seem to notice, this is perfectly legal. When an item is dropped, there is no possession on it. The person who picks it up, then owns it. Otherwise, no one stole anything you DROPPED. If you dropped it, you dropped it, and if you don't pick it up, you dropped it. So stop complaining if you drop a weapon to show off, then a newbie comes along and takes it. In fact, no matter how virtuous I am, I would too. It's not your's, so why not make it mine?

Use common sense.

But anyways, I will never scam in Graal, but I may "steal" if you dropped an item. I will give you no sympathy, because the item is now mine. I know many people would agree to everything I'm saying, and flash this thread to people that accuse of stealing, and thats what I made it for. Post here if you agree or disagree to what I said.

cynicalfree1 · #2 04-18-2003, 02:01 AM

I disagree. Some people may be showing a item to someone who may want to buy it. It takes along time to get something important to you, and when it is stolen from you that pisses you off. It is really lame when someone comes along while your trying to trade and picks up your items and says "Oh it's mine now". I hope someone picks up what your trading so you can feel what it's like to lose something of value to you.

Ducken · #3 04-18-2003, 02:11 AM

Common sense tells you that if you are going to show someone an item then you should atleast go somewhere private where nobody is, or use the trade window.

You can't really blame anyone if you drop something of yours and it gets stolen. Yes it's a pain, but it's your own fault for taking that risk of dropping your item.

Edit : Sorry it if sounded like it was okay to steal in my post, I didn't mean for it to sound like that. I still think it's wrong to steal, like Googi said. Yikes, I forgot about morals for a moment there. *sweatdrop*

Googi · #4 04-18-2003, 03:27 AM

While it may not be illegal, or even defined as scamming, you should not do it because it's wrong.

AlexH · #5 04-18-2003, 03:38 AM

Most of the "scams" people post here on the boards are mainly the victems own fault.
They choose not to use one of the two, it was two the last time I played may be more now, safe methods of trade (the market stands and the trading window).
By not using that they are running the risk of being cheated out of the item, money or whatever.
The tax you have to pay in the trading window is high but you know it's sfae and you are going to get what you paid for. Also the markets have lower tax rates, I think, so why don't people use them?
I know I wouldn't trade without the trading window or the stands unless it was someone I trusted and on Graal those people I would trust to trade like that are very few.

--Chris-- · #6 04-18-2003, 06:00 AM

Karsh, I never thought you of all people would be so moraless and stupid. Next time I see you in a dungeon I'm going to intentionally take your pick ups

On another note, legal laws are made to keep the peace, peace = good. Good and bad are decided by morale laws so what the hell is this game coming to?

Dude6252000 · #7 04-18-2003, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by --Chris--
Karsh, I never thought you of all people would be so moraless and stupid. Next time I see you in a dungeon I'm going to intentionally take your pick ups

On another note, legal laws are made to keep the peace, peace = good. Good and bad are decided by morale laws so what the hell is this game coming to?

Uh, chris. That's contridictary. You're saying that I'm stupid for saying all of this, and then you want to steal all my stuff. That makes no sense. And what are these legal laws? And what's wrong with taking an item if someone dropped it? They DROPPED it. Come on.

--Chris-- · #8 04-18-2003, 06:31 AM

I'm going to steal your stuff to demonstrate to you what it's like, no better way than to experiance it first hand eh Karsh?

They don't drop it, monsters automatically do when they're killed, it would have been annoying if it automatically went in your inventory wouldn't it?

Laws...worded it wrongly, should have said rules. People being alowd to steal things like this and it being considered "a fair thing" and having people like yourself making a thread like this one to prove a morally wrong point ._.

zell12 · #9 04-18-2003, 06:59 AM

This applies to every playerworld, and unixmad makes the decision on wether scaming is legal or not. Stefan doesn't. -_-

Exchanging Items & 'Scamming'

Character-owned items, such as tools, houses, and bomy pets, may be auctioned or traded within Graal's auction or trading features. If, due to bugs in the system, there are discrepancies between the buyer/seller terms and the actual result, GraalOnline will make all reasonable attempts to rectify the situation.

Any exchange of materials outside GraalOnline secured exchange locations, falls under the term 'caveat emptor', or 'buyer beware.' In other words, GraalOnline will not be responsible for rectifying broken promises, incomplete trades, etc. in such a setting. If trading outside Graal 'sanctioned' trading locations, trade only with players you can trust.

This 'caveat emptor' approach does not mean Scamming is legal, only that it is difficult to prove. If Graal Police witness a scam directly they may punish the offending player. The best way to avoid being scammed is to only trade within secure trading facilities in Graal.

Dude6252000 · #10 04-18-2003, 07:27 AM

Yeah, scamming is illegal, but I was talking more about when people drop their items to show off and then they get "stolen". :X

zell12 · #11 04-18-2003, 08:04 AM

That is *****ic.

Python523 · #12 04-18-2003, 08:20 AM

actually there is a possession script :O this.owner = account who dropped item, its just not used for anything

Soul-Blade · #13 04-18-2003, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by zell12
This applies to every playerworld, and unixmad makes the decision on wether scaming is legal or not. Stefan doesn't. -_-

Exchanging Items & 'Scamming'

Character-owned items, such as tools, houses, and bomy pets, may be auctioned or traded within Graal's auction or trading features. If, due to bugs in the system, there are discrepancies between the buyer/seller terms and the actual result, GraalOnline will make all reasonable attempts to rectify the situation.

Any exchange of materials outside GraalOnline secured exchange locations, falls under the term 'caveat emptor', or 'buyer beware.' In other words, GraalOnline will not be responsible for rectifying broken promises, incomplete trades, etc. in such a setting. If trading outside Graal 'sanctioned' trading locations, trade only with players you can trust.

This 'caveat emptor' approach does not mean Scamming is legal, only that it is difficult to prove. If Graal Police witness a scam directly they may punish the offending player. The best way to avoid being scammed is to only trade within secure trading facilities in Graal.

Exactly, fool! As I said on GK, this does not apply to GK. Yes, because GK REALLY has a bomy! Because GK really has "Graal Police"! Use your head!

Stefan has told me on debug that scamming is not illegal on GK, because of the fact anybody can do secure trade anywhere. If you are not willing to pay taxes, then you should not trade. Otherwise, if you are willing to risk all your items with nothing in return, then drop it on the ground. Thats it, nothing to it.

zell12 · #14 04-18-2003, 06:11 PM

Unixmad has to make that exception and post it somewhere offically. Until then, it is illegal.

--Chris-- · #15 04-18-2003, 09:04 PM

Even if it is legal, it's still morally wrong and making a post justifying it is just REALLY pissing me off.

Dude6252000 · #16 04-18-2003, 10:04 PM

Well, fine then. I'll take any items I see on the ground that are dropped. If they ask nicely, instead of demanding me like *******s like they do 95% of the time, they get it back. If they demand, it's mine. And that's what I've been doing ;O

Kaiser2 · #17 04-19-2003, 01:38 AM

I'm with Karsh on this one, technically, he's roleplaying a thief, which he's stated before many times, and this is just that, roleplaying, if the people he takes from are dumb enough to trade non-securely with a way of getting their item stolen, it's their own fault. I do not like scamming, but what Karsh has stated is not scamming.

--Chris-- · #18 04-19-2003, 07:59 AM

Karsh, how are people suppose to know that you're role-playing as a thief if there's no way to recognise it? It's not in your name, your kingdom tag, your nothing.

Kaimetsu · #19 04-19-2003, 08:05 AM

Dropping items on the ground in order to show them to people (or even to trade) falls outside of the realm of roleplaying. It's a measure taken to circumvent restrictions in the game engine. Stealing the items is not roleplaying in any way - thieves don't wait for people to drop their items before stealing them, they pick pockets and locks and stuff.

magicbud3344 · #20 04-19-2003, 08:26 AM

i was going to say, well what if you trick a person into dropping their item then you "steal" it. i consider that a scam,
not if someone drops an item by mistake and you happin to pick it up, then lucky you and it sucks for them.
i'm not saying that i never scammed on graal kingdoms,
bet hey, a thief has to make a living someway, ya know :O?
(i took a ring of thieves from some guy, i felt pretty bad about it afterwords, but he got it in a lucky drop, he diidn't really earn it so i didn't feel to bad, now this compleate jackass who was selling me his mythrill kept messing around, and wanted his friend to hold the mythrill, then hold my money, then his friend was going to supposivley hold the items then exchange them to us, all i could think was what a *****, so i said hell no, later i signed on a diffrent acco-unt used his friends name, walked up said, "hey like my new look?" then on my geno character i said you know i want it so bad fine i'll do it!, he gave my other account the mythrill then bam i sealed the deal, that is actully my best scam becuase it invloved lots of smoothness, not that lameass, ok you hide behind the crates, when he drops jump out and grab new b q bee crap.)

p.s. and kai, i rather pickpockets over scamming but they don't have any of that stuff implamented for thieves ;\

anyways i don't play kingdoms any more so thats basicly the main reason i'm telling you guys this :O!

Kaiser2 · #21 04-19-2003, 06:00 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kaimetsu
thieves don't wait for people to drop their items before stealing them, they pick pockets and locks and stuff.

No way to pick locks or pick pockets on the server, is there?

Dude6252000 · #22 04-19-2003, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by --Chris--
Karsh, how are people suppose to know that you're role-playing as a thief if there's no way to recognise it? It's not in your name, your kingdom tag, your nothing.

I never really RPed a thief. My character is more of a thief waiting for the perfect moment to strike. I never said this had ANYTHING to do with RPing, Kaiser2 did (Sorry, I forgot who's on that account :X <3 Anyways.). So don't be yelling at me. Chris, you're constantly losing my friendship

--Chris-- · #23 04-19-2003, 08:14 PM

Same here Karsh ^-^

DenoriZakarum · #24 04-19-2003, 09:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dude6252000
From here on, and before, people have "stolen" things people drop on the ground. This includes scamming. A lot of people don't seem to notice, this is perfectly legal. When an item is dropped, there is no possession on it. The person who picks it up, then owns it. Otherwise, no one stole anything you DROPPED. If you dropped it, you dropped it, and if you don't pick it up, you dropped it. So stop complaining if you drop a weapon to show off, then a newbie comes along and takes it. In fact, no matter how virtuous I am, I would too. It's not your's, so why not make it mine?

Use common sense.

But anyways, I will never scam in Graal, but I may "steal" if you dropped an item. I will give you no sympathy, because the item is now mine. I know many people would agree to everything I'm saying, and flash this thread to people that accuse of stealing, and thats what I made it for. Post here if you agree or disagree to what I said.

my thoughts exactly <3

Kaiser2 · #25 04-19-2003, 09:55 PM

Karsh, Kaiser2 is Vlad, forget again and no cookie for you >:]

Kaimetsu · #26 04-20-2003, 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kaiser2

No way to pick locks or pick pockets on the server, is there?

No, but that's irrelevant. What if it were made impossible to take somebody's item that they drop on the floor? Would it then be good RPing to hack into people's accounts and steal their items? No.

Dude6252000 · #27 04-20-2003, 03:18 AM

And would it be good RPing if the items they dropped are never able to be picked up again by anyone but themselves, so people can block off places with seeds and stuff? No. :O

Kaimetsu · #28 04-20-2003, 03:23 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dude6252000
And would it be good RPing if the items they dropped are never able to be picked up again by anyone but themselves, so people can block off places with seeds and stuff? No. :O

So? What point are you trying to make? Nobody ever said that would be good.

Dude6252000 · #29 04-20-2003, 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Kaimetsu

So? What point are you trying to make? Nobody ever said that would be good.

I wasn't trying to make a point, I was just adding on to what you said. :x I'm tired and bored, and I fealt like that was necessary to point out what it would do if someone messed up the script..Like Graal Classic fighting fish.