Bank and/or Currency Exchange

[Raelyn]

I had an idea for GK, thought I would throw out there.

In Crossfire and Diamonin and other games that use the crossfire code, there are further levels of currency, like above platinum coins, there are amberium coins, and jade coins, etc. For instance, 100 platinum coins would be 1 amberium, and 10 amberium would be 1 jade, etc, etc.

We could maybe have a bank house, where people could exchange their plats for a higher denomination coin, so that it wasn't so hard to carry around money.

Currently, 100k plats weighs like 300kg, which is a bit much to carry around, especially when you plan to do any *serious* shopping with 100k+ plats.

I collect "diamonds of great value" just because if you have 40k plat worth of them it's about 1kg... otherwise, they are useless in the game. It's the lightest way to carry money around that I know of, currently.

It could even be possible just to have a shop like the mana crystal shop in igloo town, but the shop JUST sells diamonds of great value, so that players could buy them as a universal high value plat item that is easier to carry around.

Thoughts?

[BigBear3]

A bank would just be easier than a currency exchange.

There are those who would make the argument, however, that you should just store coins in your house.


EDIT: It's pretty funny though Raelyn, platinum coin weight was lowered SIGNIFICANTLY since your days. (It's still heavy as ****)

[Draenin]

Originally Posted by Raelyn

I had an idea for GK, thought I would throw out there.

In Crossfire and Diamonin and other games that use the crossfire code, there are further levels of currency, like above platinum coins, there are amberium coins, and jade coins, etc. For instance, 100 platinum coins would be 1 amberium, and 10 amberium would be 1 jade, etc, etc.

Because Diamonds, Sapphires, Rubies, Gold Keys, Event Coins, Xmas Tokens, Enchant Armor Scrolls, Improve Weapon Damage Scrolls, and Nihil Coins clearly aren't alternative forms of currency, and it's obvious that we need more.

Originally Posted by Raelyn

We could maybe have a bank house, where people could exchange their plats for a higher denomination coin, so that it wasn't so hard to carry around money.

It's called a shop vendor.

Originally Posted by Raelyn

I collect "diamonds of great value" just because if you have 40k plat worth of them it's about 1kg... otherwise, they are useless in the game.

Except that they're used in recipes for yarn. Would be nice if we had more of them around, though.

Originally Posted by Raelyn

Currently, 100k plats weighs like 300kg, which is a bit much to carry around, especially when you plan to do any *serious* shopping with 100k+ plats.

300kg / 4500kg max = 7% of your total weight capacity. And let's not forget that you can apparently buy formerly illegitimate 'weightless' bags now for about 1,000 NC.

Also, if you're doing serious shopping, then weight and speed should hardly be a concern. It's not exactly the Olympic 100m dash, and mostly involves one or two people idling in shops for half an hour until they decide to pop in and out of the front door to reset the shop.

[BigBear3]

Originally Posted by Draenin

300kg / 4500kg max = 7% of your total weight capacity.

I actually completely skipped over the part where he said 300 kg. That's pretty damn good for 100k.

[Draenin]

Originally Posted by BigBear3

I actually completely skipped over the part where he said 300 kg. That's pretty damn good for 100k.

It really is, considering you could still manage to carry ten times the amount (1 million platinum coins, or 3000kg) in a mostly clean inventory with lots of strength.

If you are carrying around tons of coins all the time while you're fighting other players or monsters, I understand how it becomes a burden because I've made the same mistake myself. But if that's the case, you're probably not devoting much of your time to shopping.

We really don't need more types of currency that exist purely for the fact that they weigh less. We already have those, technically. They are just earned through alternative means.

[BigBear3]

I think the amount of different currencies is actually a problem.

[Draenin]

Originally Posted by BigBear3

I think the amount of different currencies is actually a problem.

A diversity of currencies is a good thing. And even if GK were to suddenly drop back to the base currencies only (gold, silver, platinum) other items would be used as currencies instead.

Diamonds, for instance, were not originally intended as a currency, but they got that way partly because of their weight and mostly because you need a lot of them to open all of your weapon improvement slots.

Other currencies like Event Coins, Christmas Tokens, and Nihil Coins are used as currencies because they are required to pick up certain things from special shops as well. But yet they will still convert nicely back into platinum or other currencies depending on what the other party in a trade desires.

Just the ability to collect more than one of any given thing leaves potential for things to become currencies, and you can't really escape that.

[scriptless]

Currency exchange can be done via any shop. Trade your silver for gold and gold for plat. Plat is the current highest currency. EC and Nihil are not shop currencies they are just tools to barter with other players and spend in isolated special shops such as the ec shop or the Nihil shop.

[Draenin]

Originally Posted by scriptless

EC and Nihil are not shop currencies they are just tools to barter with other players and spend in isolated special shops such as the ec shop or the Nihil shop.

Uhhhhm...

[BigBear3]

scriptless more like brainless! dohohohohoho

[Stephen]

There is an NPC which allows you to exchange platinum coins for Nihil Coins. I believe this is the effect you're reaching for (without adding unnecessary tenders).

[shrimps]

I have almost 900k platinum. Is this an equal exchange or is there a loss when converting back and forth?

[Raelyn]

Originally Posted by Stephen

There is an NPC which allows you to exchange platinum coins for Nihil Coins. I believe this is the effect you're reaching for (without adding unnecessary tenders).

Where?

[scriptless]

Originally Posted by Draenin

Uhhhhm...

I am just guessing you want to trade plat to nihil, then nihil back in to plat when you want to spend them? Because you can't just waltz right into any shop and start spending NC so trading plat to NC to save space wont let you buy anything except for what the NC shop lets you buy with your NC.

Originally Posted by shrimps

I have almost 900k platinum. Is this an equal exchange or is there a loss when converting back and forth?

It's a one-way exchange. Once you trade your plat for nc you can't trade back. Stephen should have said buy nihil coins. It's not a legitimate exchange.

Originally Posted by Raelyn

Where?

I think it's in bomboria somewhere. I know it exists, but, I'm not sure where. If im not mistaken it uses a GUI to let you select how many you want.

[Spiker]

Originally Posted by Raelyn

Where?

Trade room book on table left of the Nihil Guy above the trading tables. Must grab the book.

[Draenin]

Originally Posted by scriptless

It's a one-way exchange. Once you trade your plat for nc you can't trade back.

Works just fine trading with other people.

[Raelyn]

Originally Posted by Draenin

Works just fine trading with other people.

Trading anything with anyone is easier said than done, most days. Especially when there are 10 people online, and 9 of them are idling.

[scriptless]

Originally Posted by Raelyn

Trading anything with anyone is easier said than done, most days. Especially when there are 10 people online, and 9 of them are idling.

Yep or they don't want what your trading. If you plan on force spawning you cannot do so with anything but plat, gold or silver. So yeah you then limit your resources since you could just trade plat and if they want nc they can just buy it themself. I don't know about most people but I run a low wright player setup so I can support enormous amounts of plats if needed.. maybe the problem isn't carrying to much plat but to many items you don't need to.

[Supaman771]

Originally Posted by scriptless

I don't know about most people but I run a low wright player setup so I can support enormous amounts of plats if needed.. maybe the problem isn't carrying to much plat but to many items you don't need to.

Just carry a couple hundred dopv, it's virtually weightless and has a known conversion rate (like 144plat/dust iirc). I've been doing this for years, my weight has never reduced my speed unless I was specifically moving loads of items around.

[shrimps]

Yeah I am currently carrying about 100k plat and near 8200 DoPV on my persons.

[scriptless]

I don't carry much weight on my player like I said I aim for under 400kg. I also wear primarily speed gear and str. Because I rock a might hammer and other stuff I'm at 29 str and 30 dex I hardly ever see my speed drop.

[shrimps]

Yeah I'm always RIGHT under the weight cap of like 1100ish with 30 STR.

[Raelyn]

Originally Posted by Supaman771

Just carry a couple hundred dopv, it's virtually weightless and has a known conversion rate (like 144plat/dust iirc). I've been doing this for years, my weight has never reduced my speed unless I was specifically moving loads of items around.

Well, I was carrying around 800 DoPV, and another 40-60k plat, usually.

It would be nice if we had a currency exchange where, say, we could trade plat for nihils, but then be able to trade nihils back down into plat at a proper rate, if we needed the plat.

Some sort of linear currency that is lightweight and universally accepted for trade.

IMO, we need a static vendor for some things, like Diamonds. It's a silly thing to farm, since people need literally thousands of them.

I mean, Metalforge has a bank that acts like a static shop, where you can just exchange plat directly for diamonds. What is the reason we aren't making currency exchange simpler? Are we deliberately trying to keep the game tedious? How much lower does the player count have to drop before we open the gameplay up a bit?

Stuff like, the EC shop, items costing 100+ EC, yet, I think it's been 2-3 days since anyone has really hosted events... and when events get hosted, the rewards are rarely EC. Good luck trading for EC, nobody wants to sell them.

GK has seen a lot of improvements, but the economy is still stale from the years of items being ridiculously inaccessible.

[Spiker]

I really don't understand why Graal Kingdoms hasn't added a WoW style currency counter. Gold, Silver and Platinum. It'd be easy as hell to create and it would definitely shut everybody here up once and for all.

Literally, add a counter on the bottom or pretty much anywhere on the inventory, and make plat 100% weightless. Boom, problem solved.

[scriptless]

Originally Posted by Spiker

I really don't understand why Graal Kingdoms hasn't added a WoW style currency counter. Gold, Silver and Platinum. It'd be easy as hell to create and it would definitely shut everybody here up once and for all.

Literally, add a counter on the bottom or pretty much anywhere on the inventory, and make plat 100% weightless. Boom, problem solved.

When you make items weightless they cannot be dropped on the ground. And it will badly glitch your inventory. I tested this on debug and the only resolution to the problem is to reset your account to fix it. Which is stupid. You would literally have to change how currency is completely from scratch and that would break every last script on the server that uses plat.

Originally Posted by Raelyn

I mean, Metalforge has a bank that acts like a static shop, where you can just exchange plat directly for diamonds. What is the reason we aren't making currency exchange simpler? Are we deliberately trying to keep the game tedious? How much lower does the player count have to drop before we open the gameplay up a bit?

...

GK has seen a lot of improvements, but the economy is still stale from the years of items being ridiculously inaccessible.

lol, in 2003 when I started GK. There were half a dozen combined war hammers. The black battle axe thing (forget the name) was like a couple of a kind. Inferno sword was a elite status symbol and if you had RoW's you were a God. You won items by winning events not buying them with a trade currency. And average player count was in the 80's. When trials logged off and back on there accounts completely reset losing all items and stats.

in 2014 these items are a dime a dozen and bought with event coins. and can be gotten with ease. And the average player count is in the 20's. When trials log off they are treated the same as gold accounts. There is no discrimination.

Can you explain why a game goes free, and makes items easier to obtain and the player count drops 75%?

I personally blame the fact everyone is level 110 and everyone asks for help leveling and just uses party to level now. The only way to fix it is a reset and that will tick everyone off and the 20 people that do play will stop, while the new players will come on and feel like equals instead of lessors.

[Raelyn]

Originally Posted by scriptless

I personally blame the fact everyone is level 110 and everyone asks for help leveling and just uses party to level now. The only way to fix it is a reset and that will tick everyone off and the 20 people that do play will stop, while the new players will come on and feel like equals instead of lessors.

What about making a clone server? Lock the crypt and the xmas dungeon and only allow them as events, IE xmas and holloween, disable parties, and everyone can start over on an even field.

Of course, that would require more staff, we already have a hard enough time just getting someone to host events. Nevermind creating new content.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by scriptless

I personally blame the fact everyone is level 110 and everyone asks for help leveling and just uses party to level now.

That's partially the problem. The biggest problem which has been to-this-point irreversible was the actions of the weak German administration; and the Misty Mug was the culmination of their inane updates.

Players were tired of feeding their character, it was simply "too much work". So they removed the magic to revitalize a character and tried to force people to buy their food instead.

Players cried that items were too difficult to obtain -- a process I took part in as a player. It was not too hard, you just need to know how to work a market and I had seen people less capable than me perform without a hitch. They made items easier to obtain, increased spawn rates in shops, and handed them out during seasonal events.

I am the reason behind Enchant Armours being difficult to obtain. This is part of a slow transition back to the time when elite items were harder to obtain. The problem addressing is that our system has a hard-coded maximum which is easy to reach. When everyone is 110 and max 30's in all stats then no one is maxed out.

The only option we have available is slowly transitioning to an economy of scarcity. There has been some success with restricting EAs. It's very common for newer players to have a "normal" range of blessing on their armours (i.e., +6) and the elite players decked out in +12 are slowly transitioning away from the community.

Of course, there is complaining that it's too difficult but there has always been complaining of this nature. We're preparing for a new ecosystem as we strive for the launch of GK Facebook.

[scriptless]

Originally Posted by Stephen

The only option we have available is slowly transitioning to an economy of scarcity. There has been some success with restricting EAs. It's very common for newer players to have a "normal" range of blessing on their armours (i.e., +6) and the elite players decked out in +12 are slowly transitioning away from the community.

Of course, there is complaining that it's too difficult but there has always been complaining of this nature. We're preparing for a new ecosystem as we strive for the launch of GK Facebook.

Well I have noticed this somewhat working but now that you can buy EA's with NC people can USD them. I personally have not bought many NC just for temp buff's for leveling. But almost all of my gear has made it up to +12 still faster then back in the day. Hopefully facebook can help some. I just don't see it being the savior for gk everyone thinks it will be. Hopefully I'm wrong.

[Draenin]

Originally Posted by Stephen

I am the reason behind Enchant Armours being difficult to obtain. This is part of a slow transition back to the time when elite items were harder to obtain. The problem addressing is that our system has a hard-coded maximum which is easy to reach.

The only option we have available is slowly transitioning to an economy of scarcity.

I'd have to disagree with you there. I have maxed out my levels, and hardly feel any need to continue playing now because improving equipment now feels just about as difficult as leveling used to. It's really tedious, and not fun at all.

Players like to feel a sense of achievement, and slowing that down substantially will not make players want to play for a longer period of time. I understand that you like the idea of fully improved items staying rare, but once they get to +12 the value of them jumps up to the point where they are almost untradeable, both from a buying and selling standpoint.

Originally Posted by Stephen

When everyone is 110 and max 30's in all stats then no one is maxed out.

That's kind of the point, though. You're supposed to work on getting stronger so you can be more evenly matched with other players. Even if everyone playing were maxed out right now, the combat system will still ensure that one person will come out on top based on their skill, rather than stats.

[Raelyn]

Originally Posted by Stephen

That's partially the problem.

Disable parties. Force new players to LEARN to play the game. I can't even log on without a level 30-50 player PMing me to ask me to come "run them through" xmas dungeon... something which is unheard of. Most of them are still trying to figure out how to play the game, and are level 50ish just because of the success of their begging and leeching in a party.

[Draenin]

Originally Posted by Raelyn

Disable parties. Force new players to LEARN to play the game. I can't even log on without a level 30-50 player PMing me to ask me to come "run them through" xmas dungeon... something which is unheard of. Most of them are still trying to figure out how to play the game, and are level 50ish just because of the success of their begging and leeching in a party.

That's because the game kind of screws them otherwise. I dunno if you remember this, but you only start out with like 8-12 health or so, (Maybe a bit more than that, but still.) and the tutorial island only tells you a little bit about the professions, but not where to find everything you need to stand a chance against most of the monsters in the world.

Also, we should probably stay on topic here. Save all these suggestions for other threads.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Raelyn

Disable parties. Force new players to LEARN to play the game. I can't even log on without a level 30-50 player PMing me to ask me to come "run them through" xmas dungeon... something which is unheard of. Most of them are still trying to figure out how to play the game, and are level 50ish just because of the success of their begging and leeching in a party.

This is a "small community" problem, right now I'm designing with the expectation that we'll eventually release to Facebook. That being said, I firmly believe it's very important that parties are encouraged -- kingdoms are weak right now and a close social network is a key element to success on GK (with the exception of Dennis, R.I.P.).

The Plat-Nihil exchange NPC is in bomboria trade on the table, behind the tig-bots.

[Raelyn]

Originally Posted by Draenin

That's kind of the point, though. You're supposed to work on getting stronger so you can be more evenly matched with other players. Even if everyone playing were maxed out right now, the combat system will still ensure that one person will come out on top based on their skill, rather than stats.

I fully agree, look at maintstream staple MMOs. Everyone strives to get to max level, and then, once they get their, they proceed into a whole new area of end-game content, and PVP competition.

And if I am not mistaken, this was the point of GK having the Kingdoms themselves, to drive open PVP, and tie people to a faction for competition.

There has been virtually no end-game content added to the game, no new dungeons, no end-game quests, and certainly no end-game items.

There is still a lot of room for higher tier content.

For one idea, start putting out MORE items, literally flood the market with items of different qualities. I mean, look at Crossfire, the game has a massive library of items and mob types, and virtually any mob has a chance of dropping an unidentified version of an item from it's item table. The game wasn't designed and balanced to be so item-poor.



As it stands now, the only creatures that drop items are skeletons, and they drop an item that virtually only the newest players would bother to wield for any reason.

[Stephen]

A recent update to the craft system included a variety of new entry-level items. These items can be manufactured based on parts collected from baddies. It should be possible to add more items to the craft tables.

There is a point of correction which is being overlooked; there are no longer end game items. Why? Because a majority complained that the end-game items were too hard to get so a weak administration made them more accessible.

Now we face a common problem; it's very hard to undo what has been done. With all options considered, the most effective solution is to slowly make end-game items more scarce in an effort to normalize for our hard-coded cap. It won't happen over night. We're not doing a reset. I'm designing for the next generation.

[Draenin]

So what's the plan for when all the new players supposedly come in to replace the old ones and start wondering why it's so hard to improve their equipment and level up without others there to assist them?

[Raelyn]

Originally Posted by Stephen

A recent update to the craft system included a variety of new entry-level items. These items can be manufactured based on parts collected from baddies. It should be possible to add more items to the craft tables.

Why are you so opposed to making baddies drop more varied item types and qualities? Why would it be strange to kill a zombie and find a belt, or a pair of shoes, etc. ? If you are really planning for a new generation, don't you think new players coming into GK who are accustomed to playing other types of MMOs are going to be wondering why none of the baddies are dropping anything?

Originally Posted by Stephen

There is a point of correction which is being overlooked; there are no longer end game items. Why? Because a majority complained that the end-game items were too hard to get so a weak administration made them more accessible.

Now we face a common problem; it's very hard to undo what has been done. With all options considered, the most effective solution is to slowly make end-game items more scarce in an effort to normalize for our hard-coded cap. It won't happen over night. We're not doing a reset. I'm designing for the next generation.

This is false, anyway. There is nothing preventing you from making newer items, with comparable stat bonuses to the ones we have now, but with higher/more resistance types, magic+ and regeneration+, etc, or weapons with higher base damage values.

This would allow more diversity in the end-game, which would have a trickle effect as the currently accepted top tier equipment gets traded down to newer players.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Draenin

So what's the plan for when all the new players supposedly come in to replace the old ones and start wondering why it's so hard to improve their equipment and level up without others there to assist them?

We're going to revise Kingdoms to encourage better leadership and as a trickle down benefit, encourage membership. There will be communities to support new players like there was when Graal Kingdoms was younger.

[Draenin]

Originally Posted by Stephen

We're going to revise Kingdoms to encourage better leadership and as a trickle down benefit, encourage membership. There will be communities to support new players like there was when Graal Kingdoms was younger.

Assuming that community still exists by that time.

[scriptless]

Originally Posted by Raelyn

Why are you so opposed to making baddies drop more varied item types and qualities? Why would it be strange to kill a zombie and find a belt, or a pair of shoes, etc. ? If you are really planning for a new generation, don't you think new players coming into GK who are accustomed to playing other types of MMOs are going to be wondering why none of the baddies are dropping anything?



This is false, anyway. There is nothing preventing you from making newer items, with comparable stat bonuses to the ones we have now, but with higher/more resistance types, magic+ and regeneration+, etc, or weapons with higher base damage values.

This would allow more diversity in the end-game, which would have a trickle effect as the currently accepted top tier equipment gets traded down to newer players.

Uhm. They already flooded with new items. And more people complain they flooded to many then they haven't added enough. Also skeletons are not the only ones.

The new maps added bows and other swords when you kill monsters.

You guys complain we need a bank or exchange system.. then months later you will want another exchange to lower the weight even more. Ect ect. You will honestly only be happy if it weightless.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Raelyn

This is false, anyway. There is nothing preventing you from making newer items, with comparable stat bonuses to the ones we have now, but with higher/more resistance types, magic+ and regeneration+, etc, or weapons with higher base damage values.