Gun Update- Opinions

[Trak]

Since the gun update on Era, there has been a lot of outrage between players with regards to the new prices/their guns being taken from them and "compensated" with other, lesser guns.

I decided to create this thread so players can voice their opinions. I'm also curious myself as to what the Era players think of this new update.


Opinions?

[TSAdmin]

I went through the list of my old inventory and matched it to things in my inventory now and nothing has changed.

Only opinion knowing this:
The report in the news section should've only told me what DID change. Since nothing did for me, it should've reported as such.

[Fulg0reSama]

Originally Posted by TSAdmin

Only opinion knowing this:
The report in the news section should've only told me what DID change. Since nothing did for me, it should've reported as such.

Yeah, I *****ed about this the instant I looked at the news, as well as talked about it with the PR admin, unusual discussion to say the least.

[Herb_P2P]

this server should just die.

[bloodykiller]

is there an Excel file with all the new gun stats on it?

[Trak]

Originally Posted by bloodykiller

is there an Excel file with all the new gun stats on it?

I've been asking around, apparently not.

Can we not have some sort of file that we can compare gun stats old and new?

[WillaWonka]

Guys... the guns below my newly exchanged P90 (From my beauty the Tar-21) must really SUCK if you are paying 600k for a 15dmg gun... Either that... or Wil still sucks at stats. Idk yet.

[Lime_O_Matic]

I don't think people were compensated fairly. Players were told not to make trades due to the upcoming update. How can they not complain?

[bloodykiller]

i think Wil is involved with this mess, it wouldn't surprise me

[Fiberwyre_P2P]

Originally Posted by bloodykiller

i think Wil is involved with this mess, it wouldn't surprise me

You don't say.

[bloodykiller]

why is shipka so OP? it's far better than ACR which is worth more, wasn't this about balancing prices?
and why does DR use 2 bullets every shot and shipka only uses 1?

[Fidel Castro]

I'll post a document of the new gun stats in the stickied thread later today. One thing that is going to be hard to realize is that just because you received a different gun, doesn't mean the value is less than it was before. Your perception is that it is, but when you look at it compared to the rest of the guns and how they've changed, the value is still near/exactly the same as it was before.

I do understand this is not being taken with open arms by the players, and it's something I'm going to discuss with a few other staff members and see if we can better explain this or sort it out / edit some of the changes. My hope and thought is that we will be able to satisfy a majority if you by changing up some things that you all are unhappy with.

Something like this has never been done on Era before, and maybe there was some oversight on our part with some of the changes (though I don't see them yet, personally). I will look into this and do the best I can to "right the ship" on some things that might not have been perceived so well.

[BlueMelon]

Originally Posted by bloodykiller

why is shipka so OP? it's far better than ACR which is worth more, wasn't this about balancing prices?
and why does DR use 2 bullets every shot and shipka only uses 1?

Stuff like that can and will be changed in the future. You can report the bugs/quirks like this through F11 or PM and staff online, they will leave a note to whoever has access to scripts.

[WillaWonka]

Yeah cuz i want to know why a gun that used to be bare minimum tier 2, a low freeze low damage gun, that sold for around 50k, is now worth, witht the same aspect of states, up to 600k... it must mean that the guns under this price utterly suck.

[Fulg0reSama]

Originally Posted by Fidel Castro

I'll post a document of the new gun stats in the stickied thread later today. One thing that is going to be hard to realize is that just because you received a different gun, doesn't mean the value is less than it was before. Your perception is that it is, but when you look at it compared to the rest of the guns and how they've changed, the value is still near/exactly the same as it was before.

This would mean something if intrinsic value of a weapon was the same as extrinsic value, newsflash, it isn't. If a weapon was strong and valued and then exchanged for a weapon of similar stats, it won't mean that weapon is just as valuable if the previous weapon had better functionality. It's clear players see this differently, because you see it differently than they do doesn't make you right.

Originally Posted by Fidel Castro

I do understand this is not being taken with open arms by the players, and it's something I'm going to discuss with a few other staff members and see if we can better explain this or sort it out / edit some of the changes. My hope and thought is that we will be able to satisfy a majority if you by changing up some things that you all are unhappy with.

I repeat, because you view it was right, doesn't mean the player base you are catering to is going to see it as right.

Originally Posted by Fidel Castro

Something like this has never been done on Era before, and maybe there was some oversight on our part with some of the changes (though I don't see them yet, personally). I will look into this and do the best I can to "right the ship" on some things that might not have been perceived so well.

I'm pretty certain gun balancing has been done before, maybe not gun filtration, but balancing? Yes that has been done before.

I will say this right now: You do not have a stable economy, never have, at this rate, you never will.

Get players to test your changes before you put them out, we as developers are the worst to judge for this, developers that play the game do not have a fair say to this.

[Fidel Castro]

Originally Posted by Fulg0reSama

This would mean something if intrinsic value of a weapon was the same as extrinsic value, newsflash, it isn't. If a weapon was strong and valued and then exchanged for a weapon of similar stats, it won't mean that weapon is just as valuable if the previous weapon had better functionality. It's clear players see this differently, because you see it differently than they do doesn't make you right.

I don't think I ever said I was 100% right about anything; I realize that players may no see eye to eye with all of the changes that took place, but even just today we have made strides by better explaining what has exactly happened and most, aside from a few, with better understanding now see this as a positive.

I repeat, because you view it was right, doesn't mean the player base you are catering to is going to see it as right.

Not sure why you replied to the quoted section (that you quoted) like this. The part you quoted was me saying that I would reexamine some of the changes and work towards a solution for the betterment of the players. If that's not the right thing to do, then I don't know what is. Catering to the playerbase is doing exactly what you quoted me as saying, re evaluating some of the things we did and seeing how we would move in a more positive direction with this.

I'm pretty certain gun balancing has been done before, maybe not gun filtration, but balancing? Yes that has been done before.

Obviously gun balancing has been done before, but not on the scale of exchanging/filtration as you said.

I will say this right now: You do not have a stable economy, never have, at this rate, you never will.

It would take a lot more than this update to mess up the economy any more than it has been already. Aside from a few drastic measures, the only thing that would with certainty allow us to fix the economy would be a reset.

[Fulg0reSama]

I don't think I ever said I was 100% right about anything; I realize that players may no see eye to eye with all of the changes that took place, but even just today we have made strides by better explaining what has exactly happened and most, aside from a few, with better understanding now see this as a positive.

I never implied that you said that. I don't discredit your work, but I do question if its doing the right thing you want it to, just as everyone else does. I personally do not feel convinced by its effectiveness.

Not sure why you replied to the quoted section (that you quoted) like this. The part you quoted was me saying that I would reexamine some of the changes and work towards a solution for the betterment of the players. If that's not the right thing to do, then I don't know what is. Catering to the playerbase is doing exactly what you quoted me as saying, re evaluating some of the things we did and seeing how we would move in a more positive direction with this.

Sorry, I do this to address each paragraph I see, makes it more organized to reply. If you read my ending sentences, you would understand why, but to explain it is easy. It appears from what you are saying, the players themselves aren't assisting you in balancing each weapon, you know, public testing to help them feel appropriate and correct, so there's your explanation.

Obviously gun balancing has been done before, but not on the scale of exchanging/filtration as you said.

Yeah, you're right, but you also noticed how irresponsible this major change was handled, no? Players went into a frenzy, selling items they believed were being updated by mere rumor, poorly preparing anyone, if not hurting others in the process for being ill-informed when they shouldn't have been and you know it.

It would take a lot more than this update to mess up the economy any more than it has been already. Aside from a few drastic measures, the only thing that would with certainty allow us to fix the economy would be a reset.

Interesting, do you perchance feel the need will arise within near future then?

[Trak]

Originally Posted by Lime_O_Matic

I don't think people were compensated fairly. Players were told not to make trades due to the upcoming update. How can they not complain?

^

Staff members warned us saying "do not make trades". So I followed that advice, I made no trades and bought nothing. Even though there were players telling me to buy this gun or buy that gun because a certain staff member told them they will go up in price, I still did not buy anything.

We waited 3 weeks for what seemed to be a very good idea. Only problem is it would either be really good, or really bad.

In this case it turned out really bad :{


Shout out to whoever buffed the HK though

[bloodykiller]

Originally Posted by Fulg0reSama

I never implied that you said that. I don't discredit your work, but I do question if its doing the right thing you want it to, just as everyone else does. I personally do not feel convinced by its effectiveness.




Sorry, I do this to address each paragraph I see, makes it more organized to reply. If you read my ending sentences, you would understand why, but to explain it is easy. It appears from what you are saying, the players themselves aren't assisting you in balancing each weapon, you know, public testing to help them feel appropriate and correct, so there's your explanation.




Yeah, you're right, but you also noticed how irresponsible this major change was handled, no? Players went into a frenzy, selling items they believed were being updated by mere rumor, poorly preparing anyone, if not hurting others in the process for being ill-informed when they shouldn't have been and you know it.



Interesting, do you perchance feel the need will arise within near future then?

The adaptment of gun stats was definitely necessary (look at the legendary weapons...) and I think that this "exchange" system is not a bad idea, as long as it doesn't become a habbit.

I definitely don't think Wil should've taken care of this though. Why was he awarded another chance after he messed everything up last time he changed the stats? All Wil aims at is to make 1-2 guns which fit him well and make all the other guns as bad as possible, especially when it comes to the guns which he has more trouble against.

I'm sorry to inform you that you fell into the trap as alfonso did.

[Tim_Rocks]

Gun stats were fine while I was manager; you guys should of just left them alone.

[Trak]

Originally Posted by Tim_Rocks

Gun stats were fine while I was manager; you guys should of just left them alone.

Because it's typical of Era. Every time a new manager comes along they feel they have to alter gangs or guns somehow, f*** knows why....

[Venom_Fish]

Hello all,

Apologies for any inconvenience(s) the change may have caused anyone. However, as of yet, it seems to be that the bulk of the issues are stemming from nothing more than a handful of players and the matters about which they complain were errors made during the change, not the change itself.

The noise seems, as usual, to have died down on the game client. A huge majority of the players, as of today, have begun to move on and continue with their gameplay, as they normally would. I apologize for putting forum complaints on the backburner, but I felt as though in-game issues were more immediate because they came from those who are most likely to be actually playing the game.

@Tk: In any event, I corrected the discrepancy with Shipka. As a result of their capacity to shoot multiple bullets at once, each weapon in that style of weaponry were to be given the defect of the ammo drain you noticed. The anomalous Shipka was a fluke.

@Willa: I do not know which item you refer to, I'd appreciate it if you specified.

@Fulg0re: Before the change was acceptable for every item, numerous players were used to test it and verify it's useability and "fairness." A majority of the players now have received the change well. It just seems to be that most people that regularly play era don't use the forums, and those who do not, well... yeah. Your suggested process of allowing players to review changes was PRECISELY what led to the rumors. We promptly warned players the moment we recognized the issue and told them NOT to trade.

Besides that, in a situation where everything is shuffled, it served no one any good to trade. No one, at any point, understood which item would be switched for what. Players were only given previews to statistical changes because it was necessary to verify their acceptability.

The mass of issues with this shift are not abnormal, as a matter of fact, this seems to be the most problem free gun update I've been around to notice. The stats of weapons Tim refers to, which I also brought into place, experienced more complaints and more outrage for a FAR longer period of time. Yet, in the end, it was well-accepted by players, but ultimately changed by the new administration (as usual). Even THAT Administration's changes were not well-received and was an issue for a very long time.

The objectives of reducing the amount of items and expanding the variability in item stats while not overly affecting values was a never before tried feat, as Fidel hinted at. A bulk of the positive effects of such a change will not be immediately seen, and seldom is when it comes to gun stats. Therefore, we're simply dealing with the issues, as expected, and moving forward.

To all else, if there are any issues with the current stats, exchanges, and so on, please do not hesitate to message me in-game or leave a Support Ticket. I will address them immediately, as I have. Again, we, as a whole, apologize for any inconvenience this change may have caused you, but we promise, it was for the best and not done out of self-interest.

Thank you,
William Soul

[Kohola_KinG]

You guys complain about old stats, you complain about new stats, you complain about old prices & new prices.

You just can't win.

If you're going to complain at least give a reason on how to fix it/make it better.

If you're going to complain, at least back it up with something. Give us a better way of fixing the gun stats/prices that all you guys complained about since forever.

[Fiberwyre_P2P]

I can get behind the idea of taking guns out of the game. For a while there have been more guns than players. However, I think giving players the option of getting a full refund of any gun they chose to (before the new stats were applied) would have been a much better way to go about it. That way, no one would have anyone to blame but themselves for not selling their guns when they had the chance, and those that do sell their guns have money to buy whichever gun they like after the new stats have been applied. Everyone wins, or at the very least, everyone is responsible for their own actions.

[shrimps]

One way to go about it would have been to refund people the value of the guns before giving an overhaul of them, seeing as pretty much every gun is completely different now.

[Venom_Fish]

@Fiber and Shrimps:

We certainly considered that route in the beginning, but realized there was another objective, the economy. And, as we've all seen in the past, adding a large amount of money into the economy at any given point will end up making things far worse. Beyond that, determining what to refund people would be extremely tricky. I mean, shop prices weren't accurate measures, and players perceived certain items at different values, etc.

Basically, outright refunds were simply unfeasible. So, while I do hear you guys on this one, we just couldn't do it and reasonably expect positive results.

[Breezed]

My Opinions:

Crizen is now overpowered beyond belief (.15 freeze, 32 damage). On top of that, it has infinite ammo, making it one of the best guns in Era @ the moment due to it's sheer power.
Since Core Electronics seems to be closed (can't seem to enter it), I believe that these guns should be taken off the pawnshop/gundealer because it gives people an incorrect vision of what they're supposed to be worth.

Combat Shotgun is back where it should be statistically (for its price point).

[bloodykiller]

even if shipka has a 30 (effectively 15) clip it's still OP. ACR is borderline OP compared to the other new guns and shipka is cheaper and far better

[Fiberwyre_P2P]

Originally Posted by Venom_Fish

@Fiber and Shrimps:

We certainly considered that route in the beginning, but realized there was another objective, the economy. And, as we've all seen in the past, adding a large amount of money into the economy at any given point will end up making things far worse. Beyond that, determining what to refund people would be extremely tricky. I mean, shop prices weren't accurate measures, and players perceived certain items at different values, etc.

Basically, outright refunds were simply unfeasible. So, while I do hear you guys on this one, we just couldn't do it and reasonably expect positive results.

I see where you're coming from, but like Fidel said, it would be pretty hard to ruin the economy more than it has been already.
Either way, it's already done, so there's no point in me coming up with hypothetical scenarios that could have taken place.

[TSAdmin]

Originally Posted by Fiberwyre_P2P

I see where you're coming from, but like Fidel said, it would be pretty hard to ruin the economy more than it has been already.
Either way, it's already done, so there's no point in me coming up with hypothetical scenarios that could have taken place.

I tend to disagree with the stance of "It's ruined already, can't ruin it much more by doing this". The fact that something is already in disarray doesn't mean it can't get worse. Things got this bad because of the thoughts like "It's just a few hundred thousand dollars, it won't be THAT much compared to how bad things already are" with each passing management (Mine included). Add enough twigs to an already cracking branch, it'll just keep cracking.

[shrimps]

If you refunded all guns, people would have to spend the money to get the guns anyway from the NPCs so.... Money would just go back into oblivion for the most part.

[Fidel Castro]

Originally Posted by TSAdmin

I tend to disagree with the stance of "It's ruined already, can't ruin it much more by doing this". The fact that something is already in disarray doesn't mean it can't get worse. Things got this bad because of the thoughts like "It's just a few hundred thousand dollars, it won't be THAT much compared to how bad things already are" with each passing management (Mine included). Add enough twigs to an already cracking branch, it'll just keep cracking.

I tend to agree, and what I said wasn't necessarily meant to convey how you and Fiberwire took it. We have put in place some "sinks" to try to help take out some money but keeping a certain amount in the economy is absolutely necessary for trading, etc, to keep operating as it is. Not an ideal situation.

[bloodykiller]

you can make 100% perfect gun stats that everyone loves but if you don't fix the lag issues Era will keep going to ****.

[Tim_Rocks]

Originally Posted by bloodykiller

you can make 100% perfect gun stats that everyone loves but if you don't fix the lag issues Era will keep going to ****.

Accurate.

[Fidel Castro]

Originally Posted by bloodykiller

you can make 100% perfect gun stats that everyone loves but if you don't fix the lag issues Era will keep going to ****.

That's probably the most intelligent thing you've ever said on here in my opinion. Unfortunately, as we discovered in another thread, some sort of DDoS protection put on the server is causing the lag, which, ironically enough, causes just as much lag as getting DDoS'd.

[WillaWonka]

@Wil

The P90 is what I am referring to.

Anyways, I don't see what changing guns would do again, other then to freshen up the server, bad or good. I'm still getting lag, so that def. did not solve anything as far as I'm concerned.

Also, I believe we should've got a full money refund (Store price refund, not street price) So we can make our own choices of what weapons we should have acquired, instead of letting the staff determine what is best for us. And being that we get refunded the store price, we will still be able to purchase another weapon of our choice of the same tier as it was beforehand what was removed from us as it is now.

[Venom_Fish]

@Willa: I answered you in-game, via support ticket.

Refunding you guys at store price would not have been wise and would've flooded the economy with unnecessary money and worsened things. However, by switching weapons, we avoided that mess and allowed ourselves room to gradually release new items that could be vastly different from the ones already out. <- The benefit of vast variability between guns.

[Supaman771]

Originally Posted by Fidel Castro

ironically

Story of my (Era) life.