Favourite Heart Quest

[Cow2001]

Which do you think is the most fun?

[Cow2001]

Zol's pub was pretty fun, but I also liked the angel clan heart because as a new player you needed the help of other people to complete it.

[xXziroXx]

Why isn't this in the Classic subforum instead?

[Cow2001]

Originally Posted by xXziroXx

Why isn't this in the Classic subforum instead?

do any of these exist on classic?

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by xXziroXx

Why isn't this in the Classic subforum instead?

I was thinking more on the lines of why is this being posted as the present tense in 2012?

Originally Posted by Cow2001

do any of these exist on classic?

None of these have existed as full heart quests since about 2001/2002. Even the remake of Sardon's Tower and Gnome caves (2008 - 2009) awarded a Hera. Heras are used again on current Classic, except they are acting as heart quarters. Zol's Toilet is based on the original but entirely new.

[Cow2001]

Originally Posted by ffcmike

None of these have existed as full heart quests since about 2001/2002. Even the remake of Sardon's Tower and Gnome caves (2008 - 2009) awarded a Hera. Heras are used again on current Classic, except they are acting as heart quarters. Zol's Toilet is based on the original but entirely new.

so in short the answer is no, so this belongs here

[TheGodAngelo]

Killing the troll at in the castle quest was pretty fun, damn troll took me like an hour though.

[Cow2001]

Kull's castle has no troll, you have to kill Kull at the end...

[xXziroXx]

Originally Posted by Cow2001

so in short the answer is no, so this belongs here

Technically no, since the quests the thread is about were on what is now known as "Classic".

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by Cow2001

so in short the answer is no, so this belongs here

You realise that a lot of those quests you list weren't on the very original version of the server?
They were added as the server evolved, then they were removed or altered as the server continued to evolve.

So going by the same logic, even if we were to somehow just "remove the NPC-Server and reupload the old levels", they wouldn't belong in the Classic section either.

Granted, with there being a total wipe on 2 occasions that has created different trees of life, however the current tree contains much of the genetic make-up of the older trees, with little impurities, along with the necessary forward mutations required for it to suit the modern age.

That said, it really doesn't matter whether this is in the Classic section or not. Infact I prefer these types of threads to be separated from the threads regarding improvements to the game.

[Cow2001]

all of these quests were online at the same time, and were mostly removed at the same time in a major wipe.
who wants to go back to the very original version of the game??? (what is it even, from 1998?)

if you were to upload the pre-wipe level set to the current server that is called classic, they would belong on its forum.

I also don't get why you're arguing, it's not like it was your choice to remove and rebuild everything was it? I'm not accusing you of anything


now can we please get back to the topic?

[TheGodAngelo]

Originally Posted by Cow2001

Kull's castle has no troll, you have to kill Kull at the end...

Oh, If you're not at the castle quest yet, talk to master LI, I could help you get there if you want?

[Cow2001]

Originally Posted by TheGodAngelo

Oh, If you're not at the castle quest yet, talk to master LI, I could help you get there if you want?

master li is the one who gives you the lvl2 sword.
are you talking about the graal castle? there is no quest there. but the throne room was my favourite pk warzone

[TheGodAngelo]

Come on, just jump on, we'll play it together, I always love helping new players with the quests

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by Cow2001

and were mostly removed at the same time in a major wipe

Zol's Pub heart - Became a Hera.

Onett Forest heart - Removed before NPC-Server.

Angel Town Waterfall Cave heart - Became a Hera Hut.

Gnome's House heart - Became a Hera.

Kull's Castle heart - Became a Hera.

Sardon's Tower heart - Became a Hera.

Lava Cave heart - Became a Hera, was later remade.

Avalon heart - Became a Hera.

Tyhm's Quest heart - Became a Hera.

Midas Realm hearts - Hearts were removed.

Originally Posted by Cow2001

if you were to upload the pre-wipe level set to the current server that is called classic, they would belong on its forum.

Again, going by your own logic, this thread wouldn't belong in the Classic section if the year was 2003.

Originally Posted by Cow2001

if you were to upload the pre-wipe level set to the current server that is called classic, they would belong on its forum.

You're mistaking the first wipe (introduction of the NPC-Server, rendering previous content unusable, January 2005) with a second wipe (decision to rebuild due to the bad state the server was in, July 2009).

Originally Posted by Cow2001

I also don't get why you're arguing

Because you're able to recognise that it makes sense to separate these threads on the basis of them being relevant to a long gone time, which is fine. Yet your poll refers to them in the present tense, which is not only contradicting yourself, but blatantly just trying to be a nuisance (not that it's a secret, or having any successful effect).

[Cow2001]

I'm not sure I get your point. I never said I wanted tyhm's version back (though many other might).

Originally Posted by ffcmike

Again, going by your own logic, this thread wouldn't belong in the Classic section if the year was 2003.

yes and no. it would surely have belonged there better than now.

Originally Posted by ffcmike

You're mistaking the first wipe (introduction of the NPC-Server, rendering previous content unusable, January 2005) with a second wipe (decision to rebuild due to the bad state the server was in, July 2009).

I'm not, I said I'm not accusing you or your server. (+there's also the tyhm over haul)
in all seriousness, your server is fine, some people may even like its style better, but it's a different entity. what I may want doesn't have to come as a contradiction to what you want.
It's like saying, how could you still like Zelda a Link to the Past when Twilight Princess is already out!!

regarding the present tense - if it bothers people so much, the moderators can change it, i don't care. but people can still play the quests in other means, the levels are still available, they haven't been wiped from existence.

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by Cow2001

I'm not sure I get your point. I never said I wanted tyhm's version back (though many other might).

I'm not sure what this has to do with my point.

Originally Posted by Cow2001

yes and no. it would surely have belonged there better than now.

Why is it black and white in one instance, while gray in another?
I know I've been a critic of the iPhone server's reminiscence or lack thereof, but at least my personal definitions are consistent.

Originally Posted by Cow2001

in all seriousness, your server is fine

True or not, some of your posts have shown a total lack of awareness as to whether this is the case.

Originally Posted by Cow2001

but it's a different entity.

I'm not saying it is the exact same entity. It has however always been re-using and expanding on elements from the old entities, while adding new elements to make it capable of succeeding on modern day Graal.

Originally Posted by Cow2001

It's like saying, how could you still like Zelda a Link to the Past when Twilight Princess is already out!!

LTTP was a master piece when it was released in 1992, and probably would still be very well received if it was released in the present day (such as when it was released on GBA). This is because it had excellent gameplay, regardless of its console's technical capabilities.

Much of the sentiment behind the 2000 version of Classic is based on the circumstances of its day, that it was free to play, there were hundreds of players, the sheer quantity of content, there were few other Graal servers, it was more possible to submit your own content to the game etc.

If it were to somehow be brought back, it would be very clear that much of it is terribly out-dated, low standard, poorly designed (which Tyhm thought so a decade ago), and to scripters - difficult to maintain and add improvements to.

[Cow2001]

Originally Posted by ffcmike

I'm not sure what this has to do with my point.

for some reason you said the quests weren't on the original version of the server, and described what happened to them afterwards.
as if I just wanted the restoration of the levels from a random version, or tyhm's version.

Originally Posted by ffcmike

Why is it black and white in one instance, while gray in another?
I know I've been a critic of the iPhone server's reminiscence or lack thereof, but at least my personal definitions are consistent.

I'm not sure what you mean?
should I treat everything as black as white to maintain consistency?
in 2003 some of these quests were still around. in 2011 I none of these quests are still around. should I treat both versions the same just because they were different from before?

Originally Posted by ffcmike

True or not, some of your posts have shown a total lack of awareness as to whether this is the case.
I'm not saying it is the exact same entity. It has however always been re-using and expanding on elements from the old entities, while adding new elements to make it capable of succeeding on modern day Graal.

as I said, I don't really care about your server more than the other playerworlds.
but just because you have something of your own, doesn't mean that the opinions of people that want something else, that doesn't have to come in the place of your thing, have to be hushed. this argument doesn't concern you or your server personally.

Originally Posted by ffcmike

Much of the sentiment behind the 2000 version of Classic is based on the circumstances of its day, that it was free to play, there were hundreds of players, the sheer quantity of content, there were few other Graal servers, it was more possible to submit your own content to the game etc.

If it were to somehow be brought back, it would be very clear that much of it is terribly out-dated, low standard, poorly designed (which Tyhm thought so a decade ago), and to scripters - difficult to maintain and add improvements to.

I think the old stuff could still attract modern players. gamers who are downloading/playing graal don't seek ultra modern gameplay. they can still enjoy the old stuff. the levels had certain qualities that do not exist on any of the modern servers.
tyhm didn't do his overhaul because people disliked what was before, but because he wasn't able to fully develop his own vision on it.
To say that people only played it because there weren't many options, or because it was free, is just untrue in my opinion.

[Cow2001]

By the way:
I'm a pretty nice and friendly fellow, I'm not here to annoy you or make you nuisance as you say. but if it were my cause, you could have said that I had succeeded - the best way to defeat an internet troll is to ignore him.


I'll be glad to see more people participate in the poll and the original topic.

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by Cow2001

as if I just wanted the restoration of the levels from a random version

Your posts suggest that you do.

Originally Posted by Cow2001

I'm not sure what you mean?
should I treat everything as black as white to maintain consistency?
in 2003 some of these quests were still around. in 2011 I none of these quests are still around. should I treat both versions the same just because they were different from before?

This question doesn't make sense.

Originally Posted by Cow2001

but just because you have something of your own, doesn't mean that the opinions of people that want something else, that doesn't have to come in the place of your thing, have to be hushed.

I haven't said that it does. I've been giving you an explanation as to why I disagree with your opinions, and the many problems surrounding them.

Originally Posted by Cow2001

this argument doesn't concern you or your server personally.

Where have I suggested that this concerns me personally?
As far as concerning the server, how could "reupload the 2000 Classic levels" not be? (albeit Graal2000 was a flop, and was made in the first place to prove Tyhm's point)

Originally Posted by Cow2001

I think the old stuff could still attract modern players. gamers who are downloading/playing graal don't seek ultra modern gameplay. they can still enjoy the old stuff.

I agree that it's possible for old gameplay to be enjoyed and that Graal should be trying to further market itself as a retro game. But much of these levels you yearn for were from a time where there was no such thing as an accepted standard. For all the good things that are worth salvaging (and can be salvaged properly on the current server), there were a lot of terrible off-putting things as well. Then you would still have the problem of it being harder to maintain while adding new features to the game.

Originally Posted by Cow2001

tyhm didn't do his overhaul because people disliked what was before

I didn't say he did.

Originally Posted by Cow2001

but because he wasn't able to fully develop his own vision on it.

That, and the previous version not actually having as much of a vision.

Originally Posted by Cow2001

To say that people only played it because there weren't many options, or because it was free, is just untrue in my opinion.

I'm not saying those were the only reasons people played it. I'm saying those are the circumstances of the time which provided the higher playercounts, and compensated for the lack of quality compared to Tyhm's final version of GTA. Due to the introduction of P2P, and the establishment of more servers, Classic had already lost a lot of players even before the NPC-Server.

Originally Posted by Cow2001

I'm not here to annoy you or make you nuisance as you say

I'm not saying you're here to annoy me, I'm saying you're acting under a conspicuous guise rather than simply being honest and upfront about what you want.

[Cow2001]

Originally Posted by ffcmike

Your posts suggest that you do.

no, the levels I liked best are the pre-tyhm levels, which had all of the heart quests. of course there is a lot of cool stuff from later, which could be added in addition. but it doesnt matter much now

Originally Posted by ffcmike

I haven't said that it does. I've been giving you an explanation as to why I disagree with your opinions, and the many problems surrounding them.

ok, it just seemed that you and maybe other classic staff think that I'm attacking them, otherwise the argument wouldn't have developed so far.
i just want to say that I am not.

Originally Posted by ffcmike

Where have I suggested that this concerns me personally?
As far as concerning the server, how could "reupload the 2000 Classic levels" not be? (albeit Graal2000 was a flop, and was made in the first place to prove Tyhm's point)

reupload doesn't mean to replace your server. could have a separate one.
Graal1998 and Graal2000 were almost designed in a way that would make them flop, maybe because tyhm wanted to prove his point. graal1998 was a too-early version and had in-game cheat codes that messed gameplay. the server changed to Graal2000 mostly after most people already left and the controls were handed to a bunch of silly new guys who started changing it in a completely unrelated direction (they even wanted to add jobs)
a real graal2000 that continues development could have been successful.

Originally Posted by ffcmike

I agree that it's possible for old gameplay to be enjoyed and that Graal should be trying to further market itself as a retro game. But much of these levels you yearn for were from a time where there was no such thing as an accepted standard. For all the good things that are worth salvaging (and can be salvaged properly on the current server), there were a lot of terrible off-putting things as well. Then you would still have the problem of it being harder to maintain while adding new features to the game.

there weren't many accepted standards, but I think the lack of restrictive standards actually had benefits. it turned the game into more unique, wild, maybe with its own personal charm.

Originally Posted by ffcmike

I'm not saying you're here to annoy me, I'm saying you're acting under a conspicuous guise rather than simply being honest and upfront about what you want.

what I want doesn't really matter anymore. it's probably too late, and i no one will do anything neway. so I'm not trying to start endless arguments about it. but reminiscing nostalgia is still fun.

[ffcmike]

Originally Posted by Cow2001

ok, it just seemed that you and maybe other classic staff think that I'm attacking them, otherwise the argument wouldn't have developed so far.
i just want to say that I am not.

TheGodAngelo isn't an old Classic player, or so much aware of all the history and past versions of the server, and that this whole argument has been done before repeatably ad nauseum. Fulg0resama is his friend, and not representative of Classic's staff.

You made a post pertaining to old Classic content in the present tense, with full knowledge they no longer exist (in Zol's Toilet's case, in its original form), then inconspicuously questioned whether this is true. It shouldn't come across as a surprise at all that I am questioning the validity of this thread, personal or not.

Originally Posted by Cow2001

reupload doesn't mean to replace your server. could have a separate one.

Even if this were possible and realistic (good luck convincing Graal's management they should provide support for decade old software), using 2 different but similar entities, which share a lot, to accomplish a similar goal would be a conflict of interests. The huge amount of time and effort required to make old Classic playable on modern Graal, has no shortage of alternatives inwhich it would be better designated towards. Perhaps if the pricing policy was improved current Classic would be more likely to achieve similar playercounts to what Classic did in 2000.

Originally Posted by Cow2001

there weren't many accepted standards, but I think the lack of restrictive standards actually had benefits. it turned the game into more unique, wild, maybe with its own personal charm.

I do agree this is a large part of what made it what it was. However in the long run this is also part of why it was abandoned.

Originally Posted by Cow2001

what I want doesn't really matter anymore. it's probably too late, and i no one will do anything neway. so I'm not trying to start endless arguments about it. but reminiscing nostalgia is still fun.

There's an ambitious forward thinking server, which is inspired by, copying traits and features of, and has actively attempted to emulate that same server as well as its successor. It has had 2 and a half years of hard work on the back of extensive planning, and isn't far away from reaching its intended level of completion, at which point there will still be plenty of ability to reminisce over nostalgia.