Account changes

[Gunderak]

Maybe if people want to change their account from the usual Graal###### there should be a payment in the store which allows an account name change.
Also password should be changeable.
Just my thoughts.

[TSAdmin]

Won't happen. Information about your account is tied to the account name. If you change it, you lose everything everywhere because ultimately the account no longer exists by name. This is one of the reasons why community names even exist: So you can change that identifier without losing any account information.
Also, http://graalonline.com/accounts/lostpass is how you change your password.

[Gunderak]

I worded that wrong, I meant "custom passwords" instead of like ch67AG87 ones and no that isn't my password.
And why can't the information be linked to your account in some other way, having Graal###### account's suck.
It takes out the creativity.

[TSAdmin]

Originally Posted by Gunderak

I worded that wrong, I meant "custom passwords" instead of like ch67AG87 ones and no that isn't my password.
And why can't the information be linked to your account in some other way, having Graal###### account's suck.
It takes out the creativity.

How exactly would you change it? There is always going to be some form of identifier for accounts that you cannot change. The fact that the "Graal" numbers are even still visible is really the only problem. If you had no idea it even existed and it was never referred to as your account name (lets call it an account ID), but you still had the ability to change your community name (although we could call that your account name in the event we dont know "GraalXXXX" exists), then nothing would be different and we would be content with exactly this setup. You could still change your community name and not be any wiser of your internal account id. Basically, people's biggest issue with the "GraalXXXX" numbers is the fact that they can see them, therefore know they exist as their "real" account when in fact it's really just an identifier that shouldn't even be known about.

As for the password thing, I would only agree to custom passwords as long as the person customising their password was forced to use a strong password. Even stronger than the current one. EG: Must include at least 1 capital, at least 1 symbol and at least 1 number and ultimately be over 8 characters long. People come up with the stupidest and most obvious passwords sometimes that it doesn't even give hackers a challenge to decrypt, if they even have to decrypt anything at all. You could just know someone well enough to know they'd be stupid enough to make their password their cat's name.

[Gunderak]

Well I agree, the passwords should be forced to be strong.
And It would be changed by all new accounts NOT having Graal###### where as instead you should be able to specify your own; as it used to be as I believe.

[cbk1994]

Would really like to see passwords be changable by users, but it should not cost gelats—that's just ridiculous.

Also, password strength requirements are annoying. As long as it's eight characters or so, let a user be responsible for their own account. Worrying about hackers getting passwords from the hashes is not really an issue unless the passwords database is stolen, at which time Graal should force a password reset for all users anyway.

[TSAdmin]

Originally Posted by Gunderak

Well I agree, the passwords should be forced to be strong.
And It would be changed by all new accounts NOT having Graal###### where as instead you should be able to specify your own; as it used to be as I believe.

But that negates your efforts to allow people to change their public identifier. You want people to be able to pick and choose their account name, but the way you want it (back to the way it used to be) once you pick it, you're stuck with it. Enter community names. Changeable at reasonable request without the disappointment of starting over because your identifier has changed. The only thing wrong with the current system is the fact that people are being told to upgrade before they are allowed to choose a name which has lead to problems like their Graal#### identifier being public by default.

In line with your desires, it would be better for them to leave the current system in place where people have the option to pick and alter their community name, BUT the Graal number (and other people's Graal numbers) needs to be absolutely hidden from existence. The only exception being for administrative requirements, something players have no need to be involved in. It all comes back to that. Something developers have been trying to get recognised for far too long.

[BlueMelon]

Just wanted to mention, graal passwords are stored in the registry of ones computer. They a re then decrypted by the client. If someone wanted to make a password stealer, he would need to find the algorithm at which graal uses to encrypt and decrypt the passwords in the registry.

[Crow]

Originally Posted by BlueMelon

Just wanted to mention, graal passwords are stored in the registry of ones computer. They a re then decrypted by the client. If someone wanted to make a password stealer, he would need to find the algorithm at which graal uses to encrypt and decrypt the passwords in the registry.

I'm assuming that Graal also stores them when they couldn't be used successfully. Therefore, you can easily get the encrypted version for every password. One could probably write a script to brute force that. I suppose using a key logger would be a little easier though

[fowlplay4]

Originally Posted by BlueMelon

Just wanted to mention, graal passwords are stored in the registry of ones computer. They a re then decrypted by the client. If someone wanted to make a password stealer, he would need to find the algorithm at which graal uses to encrypt and decrypt the passwords in the registry.

It could just wait for you to open Graal and steal the password from there. Your email and other accounts are likely to get hijacked before they take your Graal account via a key-logger, especially if you keep the password email there.

Another thing is that after you paste in your password you're going to want to clear it from your clipboard so it's not sitting there waiting to be picked off.

[Demisis_P2P]

Originally Posted by TSAdmin

How exactly would you change it? There is always going to be some form of identifier for accounts that you cannot change. The fact that the "Graal" numbers are even still visible is really the only problem. If you had no idea it even existed and it was never referred to as your account name (lets call it an account ID), but you still had the ability to change your community name (although we could call that your account name in the event we dont know "GraalXXXX" exists), then nothing would be different and we would be content with exactly this setup. You could still change your community name and not be any wiser of your internal account id. Basically, people's biggest issue with the "GraalXXXX" numbers is the fact that they can see them, therefore know they exist as their "real" account when in fact it's really just an identifier that shouldn't even be known about.

Yeah, community names weren't a bad idea, but they really screwed up the implementation of it something shocking.

[Bell]

I also wish the Graal### portion wasn't visible to the public but what I find ironic is this. Graal## people complain because they don't have a named account. Graal named accounts people complain cause they can't change their community name. All claim its unfair. The moral of this story is "The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence"

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Bell

I also wish the Graal### portion wasn't visible to the public but what I find ironic is this. Graal## people complain because they don't have a named account. Graal named accounts people complain cause they can't change their community name. All claim its unfair. The moral of this story is "The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence"

nop, just do rufus' idea and everything would be solved. never seen a game have so many problems with fundamental crap

[Unkownsoldier]

Graal could have just followed what many other game companies do, Nexon for example. You have a Nexon ID in which you use to login then you can create characters on the actual game. The players only see your character name and not your actual account name, a lot safer in my opinion.

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by Crono

nop, just do rufus' idea and everything would be solved. never seen a game have so many problems with fundamental crap

What is Rufus' idea? If you mean the one he had for giving all players a Graal### account, it's just not possible.

Originally Posted by Demisis_P2P

Yeah, community names weren't a bad idea, but they really screwed up the implementation of it something shocking.

This really was (and still is) the largest problem. It took years to get support for them in RC, and the publicly released RC still doesn't support them. There's also no scripting functions for getting the cname of an account (and vica-versa).

[Crono]

Originally Posted by cbk1994

What is Rufus' idea? If you mean the one he had for giving all players a Graal### account, it's just not possible.

completely hide graal#### from users and have it only display their community names.

[scriptless]

I read up to the "custom passwords". I have to shake my head quickly and shout "NO". As a majority of graalians don't use the most common sence and often, you guessed it, repeat passwords. Ever wonder why people are getting hacked left and right all the time? Leaked databases, I have seen and forwarded to Graal Staff. Where people hardcore own themselves by using the same password as there email. And some people have lost everything, facebook, myspace, aim, etc.. it's just not secure at all.. Let graal gen you a password, end of story.

As for account names, about Graal#### blah blah names.. Live with it, the problem is the lack of support (from developers) for proper usage. Basically, if you don't like it ignore it because of the following

All account's have an account name, but not all accounts have a community name. Accounts created before Graal###, have there community name set as there account name, ex:

Classic Subscription Account Test Results: (bloodpet)
player.account, returns "bloodpet"
player.communityname, returns "bloodpet"

As far as scripting goes, ALWAYS USE ACCOUNT NAME NOT COMMUNITY... or your script can/will break. (Those accounts that have Graal###, but never bought a community name)...

I don't know why people insist the Graal### names are problems, because its not a compatibility error but a human error on the developers behalf.. GRR


Best solution:
making Graal### invisable, and giving us a feature that is retard proof for scripters.

findplayer() and findplayerbycommunityname(). People don't understand when to use them because they try using communit name's instead of account and it can't find them. It IS messy. But its not rocket science. there should be 0 complaints from anyone about the current system.

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by scriptless

I read up to the "custom passwords". I have to shake my head quickly and shout "NO". As a majority of graalians don't use the most common sence and often, you guessed it, repeat passwords. Ever wonder why people are getting hacked left and right all the time? Leaked databases, I have seen and forwarded to Graal Staff. Where people hardcore own themselves by using the same password as there email. And some people have lost everything, facebook, myspace, aim, etc.. it's just not secure at all.. Let graal gen you a password, end of story.

This is nonsense. Let players be responsible for their own accounts. We don't need to be protecting people from their own stupidity, even those who lack common "sence". Very few other services insist on randomly generating passwords. Making it harder to login to your account is not a good way to retain players.

findplayer() and findplayerbycommunityname(). People don't understand when to use them because they try using communit name's instead of account and it can't find them. It IS messy. But its not rocket science. there should be 0 complaints from anyone about the current system.

We are lacking functions to convert between account and commityname, there is still a bug with communityname (which is empty if one has not been chosen; it should instead be the account), and the released Windows RC (which most developers use) does not support community names in the playerlist.

[BlueMelon]

Originally Posted by Crow

I'm assuming that Graal also stores them when they couldn't be used successfully. Therefore, you can easily get the encrypted version for every password. One could probably write a script to brute force that. I suppose using a key logger would be a little easier though

Keyloggers are old, and would not be that much of a threat against your account security. Who manually types there graal password anyway? I can barely remember it.

Originally Posted by fowlplay4

It could just wait for you to open Graal and steal the password from there. Your email and other accounts are likely to get hijacked before they take your Graal account via a key-logger, especially if you keep the password email there.

Another thing is that after you paste in your password you're going to want to clear it from your clipboard so it's not sitting there waiting to be picked off.

Unless your infected with some kind of multi-virus for example a RAT (Remote administration tool) those things can get pretty nasty, features from keylogging to clipboard logging to remote desktop even.

If you people are up on your security and monitor your outgoing connections, you should be safe. Anyway, graal has also implemented to send an email to allow another computer to play your account. So I would suggest at most to change your password every so often

[Hezzy002]

Solution that won't require account resets or major script modifications:

player.account stays static. No longer visible on profile. It's an identifier only.

For all Graal# accounts, allow them to make a decent username on next login to the list server. That's set to communityname.

For all non-Graal# accounts, set communityname to their player.account value.

Display communityname on the profile.

player.communityname will remain static. Forever. Seriously, what kind of MMO let's you change your username spontaneously? That's what the nickname is for.

Originally Posted by BlueMelon

Keyloggers are old, and would not be that much of a threat against your account security. Who manually types there graal password anyway? I can barely remember it.



Unless your infected with some kind of multi-virus for example a RAT (Remote administration tool) those things can get pretty nasty, features from keylogging to clipboard logging to remote desktop even.

If you people are up on your security and monitor your outgoing connections, you should be safe. Anyway, graal has also implemented to send an email to allow another computer to play your account. So I would suggest at most to change your password every so often

Myself being a real programmer, I'm going to call you out, just based on this post, your name, your signature, and avatar, that you're one of those annoying kids.

[fowlplay4]

Originally Posted by BlueMelon

Keyloggers are old, and would not be that much of a threat against your account security. Who manually types there graal password anyway? I can barely remember it.

Unless your infected with some kind of multi-virus for example a RAT (Remote administration tool) those things can get pretty nasty, features from keylogging to clipboard logging to remote desktop even.

If you people are up on your security and monitor your outgoing connections, you should be safe. Anyway, graal has also implemented to send an email to allow another computer to play your account. So I would suggest at most to change your password every so often

When people talk about Keyloggers they aren't referring to the literal act of logging your keystrokes and sending them to you. They're referring to malicious RATs.

Phishing and other social engineering methods are how most Graalians are being compromised these days. A majority of graal users probably have their password email still in their inbox.

Manually entering your password and not saving it is as secure as you can be. A memorized password is more secure than a password stored in your email or in a text file, and if they have their graal email they'll also have no problem getting the right password.

The PC ID system is not stable either and is only going to cause further annoyance, also considering that the system has flat out broke at times eliminates any kind of trust I would have in it.

On topic:

The big flaws with the account system need to be fixed and our tools updated to work with it. If it was implemented and finished properly we would of never had to make stupid threads about it.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by cbk1994

Would really like to see passwords be changable by users, but it should not cost gelats—that's just ridiculous.

Also, password strength requirements are annoying. As long as it's eight characters or so, let a user be responsible for their own account. Worrying about hackers getting passwords from the hashes is not really an issue unless the passwords database is stolen, at which time Graal should force a password reset for all users anyway.

[Fulg0reSama]

Funny thing is I've already memorized my current Graal password.

I don't even use any form of key memorization like in Dusty's comic he posted.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by Fulg0reSama

Funny thing is I've already memorized my current Graal password.

I don't even use any form of key memorization like in Dusty's comic he posted.

I still remember my password for my Graal account that is 13 years-old because it's a custom-defined password. However I still don't know my password for my current account(that I've had for 9+ years) because it's a generated assortments of letters and numbers that is just beyond memorizing(for me, personally).

[Fulg0reSama]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

I still remember my password for my Graal account that is 13 years-old because it's a custom-defined password. However I still don't know my password for my current account(that I've had for 9+ years) because it's a generated assortments of letters and numbers that is just beyond memorizing(for me, personally).

Yeah, mine isn't custom defined, I accidentally resetted mine sometime ago :C

[fowlplay4]

You just need to reset your password until you get one thats all letters, attempt to pronounce the word it makes and remember your hand motions.

After you got that down the only tricky part is remembering which letters are uppercase.

[Gunderak]

Why not just let users set their own passwords and force passwords to have 1 upper case and at least one symbol.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by Gunderak

Why not just let users set their own passwords and force passwords to have 1 upper case and at least one symbol.

Forcing symbols and crap like that does nothing to improve the security of a password in most cases and only makes it harder to remember for some people to remember, especially since these requirements vary from one site to the next.

[Crow]

Originally Posted by BlueMelon

Keyloggers are old, and would not be that much of a threat against your account security. Who manually types there graal password anyway? I can barely remember it.

Most keyloggers don't only check typed keys anymore. Many also capture the current clipboard if there's text in it, and some go through obvious password fields in your web browser and copy the contents. Like it's been said, it could just read it from memory.

Originally Posted by Gunderak

force passwords to have 1 upper case and at least one symbol.

Unnecessary. Additional possible characters does not make your password more secure.

[Gunderak]

I still think we should be allowed custom passwords.
Graal is the only game that I have played that insists on random jiberish as a password.

[Emera]

A lot of on-line games use this method as a means to keep accounts safe, or safer than if the company decided to let players use a password of their choice.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Emera

A lot of on-line games use this method as a means to keep accounts safe, or safer than if the company decided to let players use a password of their choice.

I play popular games and all of them let you choose your own password.

Dota 2, HoN, Starcraft 2, Minecraft, (WoW and LoL, two gigantic games that i don't play) let you choose your own password.

[xXziroXx]

Originally Posted by Emera

A lot of on-line games use this method as a means to keep accounts safe

No, they really don't. I play an extreme amount of online games that surface on the market, and the ONLY things that pestered me about passwords have been Graal and EVE Online, but at least the latter let me chose my own one but with some restrictions.

[Crow]

Originally Posted by Emera

A lot of on-line games use this method as a means to keep accounts safe, or safer than if the company decided to let players use a password of their choice.

Eight character passwords are not safe* anymore, and it's been like that for quite a while. It's generally one of the worst ideas to not let customers choose their own passwords.

Edit: I should've explained:
* safe in terms of brute force; doesn't really take that long anymore to brute force an eight character password, as long as the service allows enough attempts per minute.

[BlueMelon]

Originally Posted by Hezzy002

Myself being a real programmer, I'm going to call you out, just based on this post, your name, your signature, and avatar, that you're one of those annoying kids.

Calling me out? My knowledge in the field of computer security and programming are quite vast. With over 4 years of experience, I know what I'm talking about when it comes to malicious software. When people say "keylogger" I think of the literal meaning. Yes, I know software now days can log and steal just about whatever but they are no longer called keyloggers they are called a multi-logger or account/information stealer.

If you would like to explain how I come off like a kid to you, please feel free to PM me.

[Mark Sir Link]

Originally Posted by Emera

A lot of on-line games use this method as a means to keep accounts safe, or safer than if the company decided to let players use a password of their choice.

lmao wat

[DustyPorViva]

Bottom line that forcing generated passwords on users forces them to store the password somewhere(usually saving the email) meaning it's actually easier to obtain than letting them choose their own and keeping the password in their head.

[DARKVILLIN]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Bottom line that forcing generated passwords on users forces them to store the password somewhere(usually saving the email) meaning it's actually easier to obtain than letting them choose their own and keeping the password in their head.

^This is True...

[Gunderak]

The moral of this thread is, "let us choose our own password".

[Admins]

Well the new standard seems to be to generate a password, but also allow setting your own password if it meets some security level. We will probably need to add that sometime, but make it inside the game, not on website.