GrimeCraft released to the forums.

[Emera]

Well, since GrimeCraft is a dead project now and considering I've only got 29 days left on my developer gold subscription, I don't see the point in hording these wonderful systems and graphics for myself when others can be using them, improving them and learning from them. I've made a zip folder of everything from my last backup. Some of the systems may not be complete, and may be buggy although they shouldn't be. I haven't checked. Enjoy.

People who have contributed the content:

• Aeko: Made the tileset and some of the graphics.
• Fulg0reSama: Removed shadows from the original idle and walk ganis. (Hey, he did something right?)
• Emera: Systems, music track and some of the graphics.
• Mercy (Blackferm): Most of the graphics. The weapons were made by him.
• 0PiX0: Most of the systems.

If you feel you contributed to the server in any way and you're not on the list, drop me a PM or shout it out here! Thanks to everybody who helped me out!

[Emera]

In all seriousness though, if anybody has anything to ask about the content just let me know and I'll swing by to answer your question.

[Draenin]

Thank you for contributing this, man. We need to start archiving stuff like this and make something like a depository for old project content.

[Emera]

Originally Posted by Draenin

Thank you for contributing this, man. We need to start archiving stuff like this and make something like a depository for old project content.

That's a really nice idea actually :P No problem at all.

[Tricxta]

Originally Posted by draenin

thank you for contributing this, man. We need to start archiving stuff like this and make something like a depository for old project content.

<3

[MattKan]

Is this okay with everybody who made stuff for you?

[Unkownsoldier]

Originally Posted by MattKan

Is this okay with everybody who made stuff for you?

This.

[Emera]

Their names have been left in the credits (OP), and if they have any issues with this work being published here they can contact me. I know each and every one of them very well and I know they'll have no issue with this. Before it starts though, this isn't the place to discuss whether or not I have permission to upload the content.

The thread has been derailed enough already, thank you very much.

[Unkownsoldier]

Originally Posted by Emera

Their names have been left in the credits (OP), and if they have any issues with this work being published here they can contact me. I know each and every one of them very well and I know they'll have no issue with this. Before it starts though, this isn't the place to discuss whether or not I have permission to upload the content.

The thread has been derailed enough already, thank you very much.

You can't assume compliance of the released content because "you know them very well" and know that they would be okay with it, because in reality you have no idea even if its likely. They shouldn't have to contact you after their content is released, YOU should contact them before you release their content. It is just common courtesy regardless if they don't mind or not. Also stop trying to cop out of being confronted by saying "this thread has derailed enough" because the issue brought up is relevant and you are just trying to change the subject because you know you did something wrong. It's not really that big of deal, just ask the people next time instead of just publishing content when you want to.

[Fulg0reSama]

Originally Posted by Unkownsoldier

You can't assume compliance of the released content because "you know them very well" and know that they would be okay with it, because in reality you have no idea even if its likely. They shouldn't have to contact you after their content is released, YOU should contact them before you release their content. It is just common courtesy regardless if they don't mind or not. Also stop trying to cop out of being confronted by saying "this thread has derailed enough" because the issue brought up is relevant and you are just trying to change the subject because you know you did something wrong. It's not really that big of deal, just ask the people next time instead of just publishing content when you want to.

Considering the wall of text, the only person at this very moment who is offended, is you.

I don't mind him placing out my work. So he has consent from me. Now he could needs to ask the GFX(s) and other coder(s).

[Unkownsoldier]

Originally Posted by Fulg0reSama

Considering the wall of text, the only person at this very moment who is offended, is you.

I don't mind him placing out my work. So he has consent from me. Now he could needs to ask the GFX(s) and other coder(s).

I didn't say anyone would take offence, I just said that he should ask for consent before the fact, not after the fact. That's great that you approve but you don't speak for all the other developers. I wasn't trying to bash him I just think he should agree that you must ask before giving away other peoples content, that is all.

[Fulg0reSama]

Originally Posted by Unkownsoldier

That's great that you approve but you don't speak for all the other developers. I wasn't trying to bash him I just think he should agree that you must ask before giving away other peoples content, that is all.

You insinuated that I talked for everyone? Where the hell do you get that idea?
Other then that, that's fine. I also don't think you're quite bashing, as much as you're approaching the request and or statement wrong.

[Emera]

I think the thread has been derailed enough thank you.

[Unkownsoldier]

Originally Posted by Fulg0reSama

Considering the wall of text, the only person at this very moment who is offended, is you.

I don't mind him placing out my work. So he has consent from me. Now he could needs to ask the GFX(s) and other coder(s).

Originally Posted by Fulg0reSama

You insinuated that I talked for everyone? Where the hell do you get that idea?
Other then that, that's fine. I also don't think you're quite bashing, as much as you're approaching the request and or statement wrong.

Were you not talking for everyone when you said "the only person offended is me" which means all the other devs aren't offended. Just going by what you said of course, not your indirect intentions. I also realize you said "at this very moment" which means it could change I agree. However, there could have been other devs who read and just didn't want to post - so at this very moment they all could be offended besides you or not be offended at all, either way its all the same at this point.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by Emera

I think the thread has been derailed enough thank you.

There's nothing wrong with what's being discussed. It's pretty on-topic(the topic being the content posted).

Really annoying when OPs think that they define the direction they want a thread to take, and insist anything else is derailment :/

[SlikRick]

The fact of the matter is, once content is uploaded onto a server the content belongs to the server, not the individuals that created it. If this was the case no server would have anything except for the content created by current staff because all staff would want their content removed that they made if they left on bad terms.

[Fulg0reSama]

Originally Posted by Unkownsoldier

Were you not talking for everyone when you said "the only person offended is me" which means all the other devs aren't offended. Just going by what you said of course, not your indirect intentions. I also realize you said "at this very moment" which means it could change I agree. However, there could have been other devs who read and just didn't want to post - so at this very moment they all could be offended besides you or not be offended at all, either way its all the same at this point.

Answer to that, you didn't read between the lines.
You're the only one who seems to care about it this much, but I repeat, your direction of how to approach the issue, is too hostile, which can be taken the wrong way. Other then that, you're talking in circles, so of course it'll be the same.

Also, despite the arguable statement that SlikRick has made, he's also correct.

[MattKan]

Originally Posted by SlikRick

The fact of the matter is, once content is uploaded onto a server the content belongs to the server, not the individuals that created it. If this was the case no server would have anything except for the content created by current staff because all staff would want their content removed that they made if they left on bad terms.

Of course, those are the textbook rules, but I wouldn't feel right if the original developers were not okay with me using their content.

[BlueMelon]

I want pictures to see how it was

[MattKan]

Originally Posted by Fulg0reSama

Answer to that, you didn't read between the lines.
You're the only one who seems to care about it this much, but I repeat, your direction of how to approach the issue, is too hostile, which can be taken the wrong way. Other then that, you're talking in circles, so of course it'll be the same.

Also, despite the arguable statement that SlikRick has made, he's also correct.

...

I don't understand what your deal is when his main intent on posting is to make sure it's okay to use your work?

[Fulg0reSama]

Originally Posted by MattKan

...

I don't understand what your deal is when his main intent on posting is to make sure it's okay to use your work?

It's a matter of how you deal with it, I'm perfectly okay with his intentions, I'm just not okay with how he's going about it.

[SlikRick]

Originally Posted by MattKan

Of course, those are the textbook rules, but I wouldn't feel right if the original developers were not okay with me using their content.

I understand this, but he's making a huge deal that only the person who owns/manages the server has a say so about it when it comes down to it.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by SlikRick

The fact of the matter is, once content is uploaded onto a server the content belongs to the server, not the individuals that created it. If this was the case no server would have anything except for the content created by current staff because all staff would want their content removed that they made if they left on bad terms.

No one is debating that. In fact I have always said that people who work for a server should never expect to get their work back... however this is more about being courteous. Just because an owner can do what they want with content, doesn't mean the owner can't take the feelings of the staff into consideration, especially if they actually care what they think.

None of this is being directed at this case specific, just my general opinion. The 'legal' or 'fact of the matter' directions don't necessarily denote the best direction.

[Fulg0reSama]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

The 'legal' or 'fact of the matter' directions don't necessarily denote the best direction.

qft

[SlikRick]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

No one is debating that. In fact I have always said that people who work for a server should never expect to get their work back... however this is more about being courteous. Just because an owner can do what they want with content, doesn't mean the owner can't take the feelings of the staff into consideration, especially if they actually care what they think.

None of this is being directed at this case specific, just my general opinion. The 'legal' or 'fact of the matter' directions don't necessarily denote the best direction.

I understand all of this, but he had 1 of 2 options and I believe he made the best decision. Either he can leave to project where it is and all that hard work that was put into it can go to waste and collect dust on his hard drive, or he could upload it for it to be used by the Graal community, so all those people's hard work was not for nothing.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by SlikRick

I understand all of this, but he had 1 of 2 options and I believe he made the best decision. Either he can leave to project where it is and all that hard work that was put into it can go to waste and collect dust on his hard drive, or he could upload it for it to be used by the Graal community, so all those people's hard work was not for nothing.

Or option 3, see how the people who made the work feel about it. As someone who always releases his work if it doesn't end up being used, I understand that it sucks to see good content tossed away because people don't like to let go, and Graal needs all the help it can get. However, maybe the people who made this content would like to pursue other things with their work. Maybe a game outside of Graal (which, depending on how much the work spreads among Graal servers, is impossible to do when released like this)*shrug* All I'm saying is that fact of the matter is that Kings can do whatever they want, but their decisions can make them a fair and just king, or a tyrant.

There are middle grounds to these sort of decisions, and that's all that was being said. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Unkownsoldier]

To be honest the reason I posted here at all was because I dislike Emera, he rubs me the wrong way. That being said sorry for being hostile - on a side note maybe a middle ground should be installed. If we do not enforce content rules (i.e. people who make content can have their content freely shared among all without permission) then we have 300 more eras running around all identical. If we enforce them too strictly then it is impossible to have a functional server because the turn-over rate of employment in Graal is (estimated in my opinion) 6 months and if they can just take their content and leave, you would be constantly rebuilding.

So I suggest developers must agree to have any content made for a server belong to that server, however it can only belong to that server and no other server unless it has gotten written permission from the developer. All content then would need to be tagged by its creator(s) and that would be that. The server has control of the content but only for that server, after that its the creators discretion of use. Just an idea.

[SlikRick]

Originally Posted by Unkownsoldier

So I suggest developers must agree to have any content made for a server belong to that server, however it can only belong to that server and no other server unless it has gotten written permission from the developer. All content then would need to be tagged by its creator(s) and that would be that. The server has control of the content but only for that server, after that its the creators discretion of use. Just an idea.

That is all well in good, but if written permission from the developer is required then the content does not truly belong to the server.

[Unkownsoldier]

Originally Posted by SlikRick

That is all well in good, but if written permission from the developer is required then the content does not truly belong to the server.

Sorry for the confusion, I meant for other servers to use it they must get written permission from the developer. However the server the developer makes the content for has full rights to it (only for that specific server, the manager/owner cannot take it to another server etc because he/she doesn't own it the server that it was created for does) Basically in a real-life sense, the server has leased out the content and only that server has access to it. If other servers wanted to use it, then they would have to contact the leaser (the developer in this case)

[Galdor]

[Tigairius]

Closing at the request of starter.