Era Staff

[Gambet1337]

+1 frankie

[Demisis_P2P]

[Arakonda]

+1 Demisis

[Venom_Fish]

Originally Posted by Sinkler

In regards to new content, he created and established Regency Theater (which was successful at one time). Scotland Yard was also big as I am sure you recall. In regards to "organized workplace", he was unable to achieve it due to Era's political factions, and thus unable to usher in as much success as he would have liked. Please look to the reset example as a solution to fix Era's economic downturn.

-To be quite frank, I don't recall any success from Regency Theatre.

-Scotland Yard was an organization/concept that ended in failure, repeatedly.
You'd have been better off mentioning Section 31, since that didn't fail nearly as many times as Scotland Yard.

- Stop beating yourself, allow me.

-In pertinence to organized workplace, the conclusion is that he failed.
In your world, nothing causes another, therefore the reasons for his failure are absolutely irrelevant.

Seeing as I'm always educating you...here we go again.
Completion and success are two different things.
Not sure (don't recall), he may have "finished" Regency, but I doubt it can be considered a success.

In short, just because you finished something, doesn't make it successful.

Success: The favorable or prosperous termination of attempts or endeavors.

Complete: Having all parts or elements; lacking nothing; whole; entire; full

Completion is a requirement for success. However, completion doesn't require nor does it mean success.

To water it down for you: You can finish a test and still fail (unsuccessful).

As you can see, these are separate. Alec's attempts were unsuccessful (failure). Complete? I don't know and nor do I care.

[Bell]

This thread is a clear example of why Era and its management have always been so controversial. Its political makeup is such that it has and always will be one group pitted against another in its fight for power. Hmm, sounds like United States government.

Its easy to blame the PWA for placing people into power that have failed but this is not always the case. Fact is we would prefer to not select managers but when it comes to Era it seems we are forced at gunpoint by the players due to some ongoing corruption case or due to lack of player support.

In closing, the entire staff team of Era, both past and present should be proud of themselves. I fully expect most of them to enter the exciting and controversial world of politics in the future. Just leave your guns at home. I don't think its advisable to shoot your opposition to clear the way for your own prosperity.

[Sinkler]

Originally Posted by Venom_Fish

-To be quite frank, I don't recall any success from Regency Theatre.

-Scotland Yard was an organization/concept that ended in failure, repeatedly.
You'd have been better off mentioning Section 31, since that didn't fail nearly as many times as Scotland Yard.

- Stop beating yourself, allow me.

-In pertinence to organized workplace, the conclusion is that he failed.
In your world, nothing causes another, therefore the reasons for his failure are absolutely irrelevant.

Seeing as I'm always educating you...here we go again.
Completion and success are two different things.
Not sure (don't recall), he may have "finished" Regency, but I doubt it can be considered a success.

In short, just because you finished something, doesn't make it successful.

Success: The favorable or prosperous termination of attempts or endeavors.

Complete: Having all parts or elements; lacking nothing; whole; entire; full

Completion is a requirement for success. However, completion doesn't require nor does it mean success.

To water it down for you: You can finish a test and still fail (unsuccessful).

As you can see, these are separate. Alec's attempts were unsuccessful (failure). Complete? I don't know and nor do I care.

In regards to Regency Theatre, it was quite well received. The public commonly attended their performances and was an excellent time to see what Era's talent has to show. How do I know this? I was a part of the Regency Theatre, and therefore I saw it first hand.

Scotland Yard was quite controversial due to certain rights they had and no one else had. For example, their right to have handcuffs (an idea that some organizations had in the past, SY was able to get it).

Alec's ideas were centered around role-playing, but this wasn't good enough for the Era Staff as they felt Era was about PKing -only-, thus leading to opposition towards Alec and a few others. However, I've come to believe that an addition of role-playing on Era is not impossible, merely improbable due to the staff's idea of PKing only.

I will use the Merriam-Webster dictionary to define success, as I trust its definitions.

Success: obsolete : outcome, result.

Therefore, under this definition provided by Merriam-Webster, we can clearly see that these were all a result of Alec's ideas, and thus successful. Now of course, was it favorable? In my opinion, yes. Regency Theatre and Scotland Yard garnered a lot of public praise (and negative praise), even Morgrim wanted to recreate Scotland Yard (as a Gang).

Because of the public approval of some of his works, I argue that he was in fact successful. Was he perfect? God no. Was he the best manager Era has seen? Probably not. But he was by no means a huge failure that you are proclaiming.

[Supaman771]

Originally Posted by Sinkler

In regards to Regency Theatre, it was quite well received. The public commonly attended their performances and was an excellent time to see what Era's talent has to show. How do I know this? I was a part of the Regency Theatre, and therefore I saw it first hand.

Scotland Yard was quite controversial due to certain rights they had and no one else had. For example, their right to have handcuffs (an idea that some organizations had in the past, SY was able to get it).

Alec's ideas were centered around role-playing, but this wasn't good enough for the Era Staff as they felt Era was about PKing -only-, thus leading to opposition towards Alec and a few others. However, I've come to believe that an addition of role-playing on Era is not impossible, merely improbable due to the staff's idea of PKing only.

I will use the Merriam-Webster dictionary to define success, as I trust its definitions.

Success: obsolete : outcome, result.

Therefore, under this definition provided by Merriam-Webster, we can clearly see that these were all a result of Alec's ideas, and thus successful. Now of course, was it favorable? In my opinion, yes. Regency Theatre and Scotland Yard garnered a lot of public praise (and negative praise), even Morgrim wanted to recreate Scotland Yard (as a Gang).

Because of the public approval of some of his works, I argue that he was in fact successful. Was he perfect? God no. Was he the best manager Era has seen? Probably not. But he was by no means a huge failure that you are proclaiming.

Lol Regency and SY...

Both could be completed in a week (two?) tops, it's not a huge.. great.. awesome thing. Using those to landmark a managership is pretty pitiful.

Neither still exist thus they were failures and did little-nothing to shape Era or remain fruitful (As I've yet to see a single person say.. 'Oh remember when Regency was open?.. We need something like that back!').

GC had a Scotland Yard party for a year or longer, thus it was created into a Gang when he became the GBA. I doubt the Scotland Yard you're mentioning had a huge (or any?) impact to cause him to create a gang of it. (Not to mention the Gang failed as well)

If you want to role-play go to Val. (As we all see how well that server worked out..)
And I've never even heard of Alec.. so I assume he was forgetful or a bad manager.

Just a thought though, but if your staff oppose you then why don't you get new ones? Or maybe they were right in opposing you and you couldn't find any others...

Hrm?

[Sinkler]

Originally Posted by Supaman771

Lol Regency and SY...

Both could be completed in a week (two?) tops, it's not a huge.. great.. awesome thing. Using those to landmark a managership is pretty pitiful.

Neither still exist thus they were failures and did little-nothing to shape Era or remain fruitful (As I've yet to see a single person say.. 'Oh remember when Regency was open?.. We need something like that back!').

GC had a Scotland Yard party for a year or longer, thus it was created into a Gang when he became the GBA. I doubt the Scotland Yard you're mentioning had a huge (or any?) impact to cause him to create a gang of it. (Not to mention the Gang failed as well)

If you want to role-play go to Val. (As we all see how well that server worked out..)
And I've never even heard of Alec.. so I assume he was forgetful or a bad manager.

Just a thought though, but if your staff oppose you then why don't you get new ones? Or maybe they were right in opposing you and you couldn't find any others...

Hrm?

The reason Alec wouldn't go on a firing spree on Era would be because he didn't want to attain the reputation of firing anyone who disagrees with him.
Obviously, reputations like that are not positively received, and on Era, would be the quick end of his reign.

In regards to your argument stating role-playing is to only be played on Valikorlia, I can argue that both can co-exist on Era, and players need not be required to travel to Valikorlia to role-play. It's not something Era is knowledgeable about, but when it has been implemented in the past it has been positively received by most.

In regards to the landmarks, I was simply using them as an example of what he has accomplished. He pioneered a reset, which of course is what Era believes is the solution to every problem, and it was a solution for a while.

[Supaman771]

Originally Posted by Sinkler

The reason Alec wouldn't go on a firing spree on Era would be because he didn't want to attain the reputation of firing anyone who disagrees with him.
Obviously, reputations like that are not positively received, and on Era, would be the quick end of his reign.

In regards to your argument stating role-playing is to only be played on Valikorlia, I can argue that both can co-exist on Era, and players need not be required to travel to Valikorlia to role-play. It's not something Era is knowledgeable about, but when it has been implemented in the past it has been positively received by most.

In regards to the landmarks, I was simply using them as an example of what he has accomplished. He pioneered a reset, which of course is what Era believes is the solution to every problem, and it was a solution for a while.

What? I didn't say he had to fire anyone. Or that anyone had to agree with him...
I said he should hire staff (obviously with similar ambitions) that would allow him to further reach his goals and improve Era in his vision. Plus that doesn't even make sense, he doesn't have to fire them for disagreeing with him.. he can fire them simply because they refuse to do what he says (ie. not doing their job).

Nor did I say ONLY ON VAL. I just said you can easily go there if RPing is what you require... Era is too dumb to RP anyway. (referring to a player-base revolving around PKing and 'free plz')

The only other thing you can come up with is a reset? What a great attempt to fix everything! 'Lets add some RPing and reset the server; problem solved'.

Just from what you say, I can concur that he was indeed (if not a failure) bad at his job.

[Sinkler]

Originally Posted by Supaman771

What? I didn't say he had to fire anyone. Or that anyone had to agree with him...
I said he should hire staff (obviously with similar ambitions) that would allow him to further reach his goals and improve Era in his vision. Plus that doesn't even make sense, he doesn't have to fire them for disagreeing with him.. he can fire them simply because they refuse to do what he says (ie. not doing their job).

Nor did I say ONLY ON VAL. I just said you can easily go there if RPing is what you require... Era is too dumb to RP anyway.

The only other thing you can come up with is a reset? What a great attempt to fix everything! 'Lets add some RP and reset the server, problem solved'.

Just from what you say, I can concur that he was indeed (if not a failure) bad at his job.

The point I was trying to make is that Alec is not a failure. In my conclusion I stated earlier, Alec may not have been Era's best manager but he was not a failure.

The point of this thread was to state who your favorite staff member was, not who was the best staff member. Not everyone is going to agree with Alec being their favorite manager or even favorite staff member. In addition to his works on Era, he was interesting and quite fun to talk to and therefore I enjoyed him personally and as a staff member. However, not everyone is going to agree.

[Supaman771]

Originally Posted by Sinkler

The point I was trying to make is that Alec is not a failure. In my conclusion I stated earlier, Alec may not have been Era's best manager but he was not a failure.

The point of this thread was to state who your favorite staff member was, not who was the best staff member. Not everyone is going to agree with Alec being their favorite manager or even favorite staff member. In addition to his works on Era, he was interesting and quite fun to talk to and therefore I enjoyed him personally and as a staff member. However, not everyone is going to agree.

Oh! I get it now, you're just defending him because he was your favorite.

Topic: Nich, Zeus, and Scoper are my favorites (current.. in that order).

Nich - Because he restored me. <3
Zeus - Because he reset me. <3
Scoper - Because hes fun as hell to troll/complain to. Kid legit always responds .

(All time? no order) William and Chris.
Wil - Because he always did what he said he was going to, perfectly, despite all criticism. With little to no rights might I add.
Chris - Because he actually tried to do work, constant updates. And he had the balls to ruin Era; twice.

[Venom_Fish]

Originally Posted by Sinkler

In regards to Regency Theatre, it was quite well received. The public commonly attended their performances and was an excellent time to see what Era's talent has to show. How do I know this? I was a part of the Regency Theatre, and therefore I saw it first hand.

Scotland Yard was quite controversial due to certain rights they had and no one else had. For example, their right to have handcuffs (an idea that some organizations had in the past, SY was able to get it).

Alec's ideas were centered around role-playing, but this wasn't good enough for the Era Staff as they felt Era was about PKing -only-, thus leading to opposition towards Alec and a few others. However, I've come to believe that an addition of role-playing on Era is not impossible, merely improbable due to the staff's idea of PKing only.

I will use the Merriam-Webster dictionary to define success, as I trust its definitions.

Success: obsolete : outcome, result.

Therefore, under this definition provided by Merriam-Webster, we can clearly see that these were all a result of Alec's ideas, and thus successful. Now of course, was it favorable? In my opinion, yes. Regency Theatre and Scotland Yard garnered a lot of public praise (and negative praise), even Morgrim wanted to recreate Scotland Yard (as a Gang).

Because of the public approval of some of his works, I argue that he was in fact successful. Was he perfect? God no. Was he the best manager Era has seen? Probably not. But he was by no means a huge failure that you are proclaiming.

Gabriel, I've taught you this a thousand times.
Stop copy and pasting things without first analyzing them, your adversary would eat you alive boy!

Merriam-Webster's, outcome is the consequence or relatively, the result of an act. That is one of its listed definitions, which is accurate because AS I PREVIOUSLY EXPRESSED, Success is derived from the result or OUTCOME of an act. It cannot be depicted otherwise.

Using your book, (Copied/Pasted from Merriam-Webster): favorable or desired outcome; also : the attainment of wealth, favor, or eminence
Alec's only success was becoming manager,
thereafter,
none of the outcomes of his projects can be expressed as successful.
The outcome is unfavorable in the eyes of many (apparently except yours).
Furthermore, I've been playing Era since 2002, and to be honest, regency theatre was never in my recollection. No one spoke of it, many never even saw it, and like everything else Alec did, it lasted like no time at all.

Uh, did you just use abilities as a sign of success? roflmao.
God, this is too easy.
They had handcuffs, and still lasted no time at all. Leaving no mark, the business concept was fine but its execution was terrible and certainly not well-received.

Alec was absolutely unsuccessful in his endeavors.
Due to people like him, roleplaying on Era is DEAD.
In this day and age, to not only fail, but help in killing an entire concept, is a term beyond unsuccessful rofl. We call that the worst case scenario.

Era was not founded on roleplaying, nor ever centered around it. Behind-the-scenes guilds could do it and it wouldn't matter, but once you make it a focal and major organization roleplay, it becomes problematic (as show by Alec's failures).

Don't sweat it man, Alec's management wasn't all bad.
He showed us what NOT to do when in that position.

[Sinkler]

I think you're missing the point of my argument. I am not arguing that he was the best manager and I don't understand why you're making such assumptions.

I am simply saying he was my favorite Era staff member who was dealt a raw hand due to staff's ever-so distinct factions which caused him to have a difficult time.

Your argument that "I never heard of it, there it must not have been a success" relating to Regency is quite weak and non-unique.

I am simply arguing that he was one of my favorite Era Staff and I never started the argument saying he was a the best manager, that was your doing.

In regards to my argument about "success", I am simply using a definition provided by Merriam Webster. The definition was followed up by an analysis of Alec's management, and I was able to prove he was not a "complete failure" are you're arguing as he has made some important changes to Era (Role-playing ideals, the reset that you advocate for, etc.), therefore was not ability, rather it was the result, which I have proven to be true under my definition provided from the Merriam-Webster dictionary.

Let me reiterate my position, because I feel this argument has been drawn out to something that I did not intend; Alec is one of my favorite Era Staff. The thread is not about who is the best manager or staff Era has ever had, and even then it's the matter of one's opinion. You're never going to show who was the best manager even if you tried because everyone will differ in this opinion.

Perhaps now you understand my position.

[Venom_Fish]

Haha, you're worse at losing than you are at competing.
You stated your favorite manager, Mange made a comment and I said he was a failure.
I never once stated "best manager", no... Alec Sheridan was a failure as a manager.
That was the statement, you contested it and there was where the argument began.

He was not successful in his position as management, fact. All you did was give me excuses that don't change the result.

I have no clue who the best manager is, nor would I make an opinionated argument.
Factually, Alec Sheridan was unsuccessful as manager.
Why would I argue your "favor" of him? It doesn't matter to me if you like apples or oranges. However, I will tell you that oranges hold more Vitamin C than Apples.

Perhaps you now understand the position and may next time learn how to lose.

[Sinkler]

Originally Posted by Venom_Fish

Haha, you're worse at losing than you are at competing.
You stated your favorite manager, Mange made a comment and I said he was a failure.
I never once stated "best manager", no... Alec Sheridan was a failure as a manager.
That was the statement, you contested it and there was where the argument began.

He was not successful in his position as management, fact. All you did was give me excuses that don't change the result.

I have no clue who the best manager is, nor would I make an opinionated argument.
Factually, Alec Sheridan was unsuccessful as manager.
Why would I argue your "favor" of him? It doesn't matter to me if you like apples or oranges. However, I will tell you that oranges hold more Vitamin C than Apples.

Perhaps you now understand the position and may next time learn how to lose.

I don't feel that you understand my position. I think you are misrepresenting my argument. Therefore, it has lead me to believe that this argument is not productive and not related to what the thread is asking. If you wish to continue this discussion about Alec, please contact me through forum PM.

[The_Federov]

ohh my goddd I read every post in this thread, why are you talking so much about Alec? Fav staff is the topic, and I chose SNK, because he gave me free guns when he was manager (I don't know why, but he came up to me said "will you be my friend?" I didn't know he was manager, but I said "Yes" and he gave me some guns, Famas, K180's, Neo (I think?) whatever he gave me, I ended up using it to scam Known's MT. so, SNK for Life.

[ilovegirlzz]

best staff is obviously Dante55555

[Venom_Fish]

Originally Posted by Sinkler

I don't feel that you understand my position. I think you are misrepresenting my argument. Therefore, it has lead me to believe that this argument is not productive and not related to what the thread is asking. If you wish to continue this discussion about Alec, please contact me through forum PM.

Stop whining. You lose often enough, should be used to it by now...

[smasher]

Originally Posted by Shotoo2

Articulate? Perhaps.
Competent? Bawhahahahahah.

OMG ITS MANGE!! Mange was a very good staff member, with bl0nk :O

[Gambet1337]

This is an intense argument

[smasher]

Originally Posted by Sinkler

In regards to new content, he created and established Regency Theater (which was successful at one time). Scotland Yard was also big as I am sure you recall. In regards to "organized workplace", he was unable to achieve it due to Era's political factions, and thus unable to usher in as much success as he would have liked. Please look to the reset example as a solution to fix Era's economic downturn.

Gabriel. Alec was a HORRIBLE Manager, You say he brought a RT? That was the biggest fail I've seen for a business on Era by a staff member. SY did okay, That was hardly anything to do with Alec. Let's say THESE DID DO GOOD for a second. He would have been a DECENT GBA not a good Manager. Takes far more then 2 things to be a good Manager. You try to hard in you're posts to make people look foolish but you're just beating around the bush with use-less information.

[Shotoo2]

Originally Posted by Sinkler

I am simply saying he was my favorite Era staff member who was dealt a raw hand due to staff's ever-so distinct factions which caused him to have a difficult time.

Well, he played politics as much as anyone, and even catered to the partisanship, contributing to the chaotic atmosphere on RC at the time. One time he seriously fired me, rehired me, fired me, and rehired me again in a day, because even he had no idea what he wanted to do. You may call that "focus" and "goal-oriented" but in reality, his attention was incredibly divided and he was heavily influenced by those around him.

Always ready to argue with his thesaurus at his side, but never willing to make hard decisions: that's how I remember Alec. A dreamer, not a doer.

[Rave_J]

idk this current manager is pretty crapy one now
letting a ETA insult there players... Thats y i havent log on i log on to play not be insulted

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by Rave_J

idk this current manager is pretty crapy one ... Thats y i havent log on i log on to play not be insulted

Sounds like Alfonso may be one of the best managers of all time.

[Geno]

Geno for title of Owner

[Scoper]

Originally Posted by cbk1994

Sounds like Alfonso may be one of the best managers of all time.

he's mad because i put him on my ignorelist, so he can't go around being stupid and forcing me to see it.

[Rave_J]

no im not mad about that i care less
but if you want to tell the story tell it all.
Exactly what happen he mass out this "what do you think about the following event ideas?
WHETHER YOUR OPINION IS YAY OR THESE SUCK, SAY WHY. or don't wast my time, please."
so i reply in a manner way that they need to be refresh and come out with something new due most of the events are like 10 years old".

He reply back with this
"for future reference, any time i mass out, i don't want you answering."

then mass this out
"To clarify, that's not me taking criticism poorly. I just don't think rave is particularly worth the space he occupies in the world..
at any rate, ima just ignorelist him" said scooper.

Then he made even rude comments like Learn english ect.
As a ETA suppose to be incharge of all events he doesn't take his job at a perfessonal level and reprents graal as what it should be i even spoke to Gaberil he laugh at me
this is insulting to me so i refuse to log on to people that lets this happen on there server and Tig let Globals act that way towards players i guess tig trained him to laugh at people when hes stuck in problems

Another thing i don't get on the application for normal Et's you have to be kind and courious to others hmm i guess it doesn't apply to anybody.

But i talk with serval high staff on era and nobody careless im hoping someone fix this in the near future before more and more people will quit for staff treating them like crap
if it was me on my server i would fire them for that

[fatcat123]

Originally Posted by Rave_J

no im not mad about that i care less
but if you want to tell the story tell it all.
Exactly what happen he mass out this "what do you think about the following event ideas?
WHETHER YOUR OPINION IS YAY OR THESE SUCK, SAY WHY. or don't wast my time, please."
so i reply in a manner way that they need to be refresh and come out with something new due most of the events are like 10 years old".

He reply back with this
"for future reference, any time i mass out, i don't want you answering."

then mass this out
"To clarify, that's not me taking criticism poorly. I just don't think rave is particularly worth the space he occupies in the world..
at any rate, ima just ignorelist him" said scooper.

Then he made even rude comments like Learn english ect.
As a ETA suppose to be incharge of all events he doesn't take his job at a perfessonal level and reprents graal as what it should be i even spoke to Gaberil he laugh at me
this is insulting to me so i refuse to log on to people that lets this happen on there server and Tig let Globals act that way towards players i guess tig trained him to laugh at people when hes stuck in problems

Another thing i don't get on the application for normal Et's you have to be kind and courious to others hmm i guess it doesn't apply to anybody.

But i talk with serval high staff on era and nobody careless im hoping someone fix this in the near future before more and more people will quit for staff treating them like crap
if it was me on my server i would fire them for that

The only sad thing is, he won't be fired for this :s. Honestly if I was Era's Manager, I wouldn't allow this type of talk. If it happened, I'd fire him/her right on the spot. Sad thing is, he won't be fired... I know Alfonso and PapaJ well enough that the most they're going to say is "don't let this happen again.."

[Supaman771]

@ Topic:
Just rename 'Housing Admin' to 'Free Level 3 RC' and we'll be on the right track.

[fatcat123]

Originally Posted by Supaman771

@ Topic:
Just rename 'Housing Admin' to 'Free Level 3 RC' and we'll be on the right track.

Housing Admin should be the LATs job...

[Rave_J]

.. Gun Admin,Gang/Business Admin and house admins are not real staff jobs they were made to put there buddies on staff list ect they dnt do noting besides auction off and make sure its active and nobody does nothign stupid could be a admin job but it wont..
idk i just had enough of this bs on era. Like era hires u if ur in there click not on ur developing ability

[Supaman771]

Originally Posted by Rave_J

.. Gun Admin,Gang/Business Admin and house admins are not real staff jobs they were made to put there buddies on staff list ect they dnt do noting besides auction off and make sure its active and nobody does nothign stupid could be a admin job but it wont..
idk i just had enough of this bs on era. Like era hires u if ur in there click not on ur developing ability

Despite not fully understanding what you're saying... I have to agree with you.

[fatcat123]

Originally Posted by Rave_J

.. Gun Admin,Gang/Business Admin and house admins are not real staff jobs they were made to put there buddies on staff list ect they dnt do noting besides auction off and make sure its active and nobody does nothign stupid could be a admin job but it wont..
idk i just had enough of this bs on era. Like era hires u if ur in there click not on ur developing ability

Yeah..

[Rave_J]

honest to god i wish tig would do what houdiniman made a rule
were u can only have so many level 4 rcs and 3 ects so the power is not just throw around ect

[Venom_Fish]

Era's worse than it was before the new management change (As foreseen).

[bloodykiller]

Originally Posted by Venom_Fish

Era's worse than it was before the new management change (As foreseen).

lol u were fired? what happened willy?

[Shadow5596321]

Originally Posted by Venom_Fish

Era's worse than it was before the new management change (As foreseen).

How is that even possible?

[papajchris]

1.The housing admins are PR's - no new staff were hired
2. The GBA was a new staff member, but he has been great to have around while i get flooded with pms from everyone else
3. Only myself and alf have a level 4 RC, which makes sense as he is on vacation so someone should have power while he is away...

[LordSquirt]

Why is there a position even for something as simple as housing; just delegate it to someone else.

[papajchris]

Originally Posted by LordSquirt

Why is there a position even for something as simple as housing; just delegate it to someone else.

we did.... to 2 prs