Rules Update!

[papajchris]

To deal with the lack of concern player’s have over their weapons, and to help players feel motivated to use the security features we have in place, (example, itemtrade, money trade, etc.) we have changed the rule of how scamming works. Scamming is still ILLEGAL, however, how we go about dealing with it has changed. The scammer will be banned for 7 days for the 1st offense, 30 days for the 2nd offense, and then a 10 year ban for the 3rd offense. The items that are scammed will either be auctioned off, or deleted. If the scammer no longer has the items/money, we will remove items/money from the scammer to make-up for the loss. If a scammer does not attempt to hide the scammed item and tells the truth when confronted by a PR, he or she will be jailed if it is their first offense instead of being banned.

If you use one of our security measures, and still get scammed, you will get a full refund!

I would also like to add that we are getting stricter on the heads and bodies that are allowed onto Era. In no way are invisible heads/bodies or other copyrighted images allowed. (Yes that means Pokémon heads) We are working on removing them all, so while some may be around right now, they will not be for long.

If you have any questions on the rules, you can read them by pressing N on Era an clicking the "information" tab.

[cbk1994]

[xXziroXx]

Originally Posted by papajchris

If the scammer no longer has the items/money, we will remove items/money from the scammer to make-up for the loss

Wait, what? Don't you have logs that allow you to trace items and revert everything instead?

[papajchris]

Originally Posted by xXziroXx

Wait, what? Don't you have logs that allow you to trace items and revert everything instead?

We will try to get the item back, but if it's just to far traded, we may just take an item of about the same value. Figure that would have been assumed

[Supaman771]

Originally Posted by papajchris

To deal with the lack of concern player’s have over their pixels

If you use one of our security measures, and still get scammed, you will get a full refund!

I would also like to add that we are getting stricter

Its clearly stated in multiple places you shouldn't have to be re-posting it. If a player gets scammed it is their fault, just re-legalize it since 90% of the guns are illegally obtained anyway.

What security measures? Are you guys gonna introduce prices and put trade limits like RS?

Lol, gg heads/bodies, gg.

[Elizabeth]

10 year ban lol

[Luda]

Originally Posted by Elizabeth

10 year ban lol

this

[kia345]

If your server has things that can be done to even merit a 10 year ban, you're obviously doing something wrong.

[papajchris]

Originally Posted by Luda

this

I couldn't figure out what to call it. Unlimited ban? infinite ban? So i just went with the straight forward ban 10 years xD.

@rogue, the security measures i was referring to are the ones that are in parenthesis's at in my OP. "/itemtrade <account>" "/trade <amount> to <account>" or pming a PR before drop trading/lending items.

[MontyPython]

Originally Posted by papajchris

To deal with the lack of concern player’s have over their weapons, and to help players feel motivated to use the security features we have in place, (example, itemtrade, money trade, etc.) we have changed the rule of how scamming works. Scamming is still ILLEGAL, however, how we go about dealing with it has changed. The scammer will be banned for 7 days for the 1st offense, 30 days for the 2nd offense, and then a 10 year ban for the 3rd offense.

This is absolutely absurd. 10 year ban for three scamming offenses? If the players have a lack of concern over their weapons, that's none of your business. It's their game, their items. Raising the penalty for scamming is quite possibly the stupidest fix you could add to combat it. No wonder they're using a no-name lackey like you to announce this ****, they're too embarassed to do it themselves (It is a joke though, right?).

Here's your job: Supply people with a legitimate means to trade. Ensure they're informed about it. Then you're done. If they **** up and refuse to use it, it's not your job to refund their item. Oh, they're crying now. So what? They didn't use the systems in place. It's not your job to babysit the players. It's not your job to supply the intellect and common sense they don't have.

Here's your fix: Supply people with a legitimate safe way to trade. Getting a theme here? (spoiler: this ****'s exactly the same as the first paragraph) Good. It's done. Any other form of trade is deemed as unofficial (any scams involving deviant trading systems are legal), thereby not receiving support from the staff. You monitor the trading system to make sure it isn't broken/glitchable. You're done. Don't do lends. Don't do stupid ****.

Originally Posted by papajchris

If you use one of our security measures, and still get scammed, you will get a full refund!

This is the only instance where refund + scammer punishment should be enforced, but only only only if we're talking about tampering with systems to get free items. Trade window glitches have supposedly occurred in the past, though I've never had a problem with the system. Ever (anecdotal evidence is the best kind). But my point is this: Do NOT reverse/refund "scams" that involve Johnny thinking he's getting a better deal/item than he really is. Yes, if Johnny is stupid enough to think a Blade is a Katana and he trades away his Sten for it, he deserves to lose it. And whoever gets that Sten should decide its fate.



For a server based on gangs, guns, and violence, this server has a hell of a lot of baby sitting and tissue distribution.

[Supaman771]

Originally Posted by MontyPython

Stuff

Have my babies. This is EXACTLY how it should be. I'd type a wall of text about it but you guys don't listen so whats the point.

Prepare these kids for reality. I'd love to see one of them get their bike stolen or loan their friend their IPod and think crying to the police would make it automatically appear back to them. Honestly, this game is supposed to be 13+ age or something, you already gave them swear filters, stop holding their hands.

[Crono]

sweet, someone scam my mp5 so i can get u banned for 10 years

[Tigairius]

I'm very pleased with this announcement. It's good that players will have some sort of backup if they're getting scammed, been a long time coming. Possibly only provide a set amount of scam restores before telling players they're on their own though. This way players aren't just being careless and wasting staffs time. "Oh well, I know if I get scammed I'll get restored, so sure weird shady guy I've never met, you can borrow my gun."

[nullify]

Originally Posted by Crono

sweet, someone scam my mp5 so i can get u banned for 10 years

hay can i borow ur mp5 plz?

[MontyPython]

Originally Posted by Tigairius

I'm very pleased with this announcement. It's good that players will have some sort of backup if they're getting scammed, been a long time coming. Possibly only provide a set amount of scam restores before telling players they're on their own though. This way players aren't just being careless and wasting staffs time.

Players should be using trade systems put into place. Their backup is if these systems fail in some way.

Backup should not be encouraging their lack of common sense by not allowing "bad things" to happen to them.

You're actually pleased with the announcement that scammers can get banned for 10 years? You realize that if everyone was intelligent and used the trading systems in place, scamming wouldn't be able to exist at all. Which is why you shouldn't make it illegal, because once you do everyone becomes lazy and complacent. And why shouldn't they, when they've got an infinite number of restores and kleenex boxes in their name?

A set number of restores would never work. You people will never stick to it. Just think of how many "last last last (seriously) last chance for [x] guy" you globals pass out. Trust me, if there's one thing you learn on Era (and Graal in general), it's that if you cry long enough and loudly enough, you'll get what you want.

Originally Posted by Tigairius

"Oh well, I know if I get scammed I'll get restored, so sure weird shady guy I've never met, you can borrow my gun."

Exactly how it's been ever since scamming was deemed illegal. Yes, I'm talking about before the Illustrious Ten Year Exile plan was put into action.

[DarkRenji]

Originally Posted by Crono

sweet, someone scam my mp5 so i can get u banned for 10 years

Not cool dude not cool..

[Donark]

Perma ban for scamming is ****ing stupid, it's a gun on a game don't even compare it to anything irl.

[papajchris]

The way the system works is:

if players act careless and don't use itemtrade, its a lose-lose (for the scammer and victim) as the item is auctioned off or deleted and the scammer is banned.
if player acts appropriate and uses a pr. its a win-lose (win for victim lose for scammer).

A 10 year ban seems long, but c'mon, no one will be banned for that long. sooner or later someone will unban them, whether its a year down the road, or a week after the final ban. It happens all the time.

The three strikes is more than enough of a warning for new players and old players alike to understand it is illegal. Scamming may become legal in the future, who knows, but until then it is illegal and the rules have to be followed. This isn't much different than how it was under Exolia, as we often reset the players instead of a life ban and then auctioned their items off. So this isn't really new.

[MontyPython]

Originally Posted by papajchris

The way the system works is:

if players act careless and don't use itemtrade, its a lose-lose (for the scammer and victim) as the item is auctioned off or deleted and the scammer is banned.

So you, the justice-seeking staff step in and become the true scammer. What a crafty way to create more ****ty money-sinks. But sometimes it gets deleted? What is your criteria for deciding whether or not something is deleted or auctioned off?

Originally Posted by papajchris

A 10 year ban seems long, but c'mon, no one will be banned for that long. sooner or later someone will unban them, whether its a year down the road, or a week after the final ban. It happens all the time.

So you admit it's a ridiculous sentence for the crime, and rather than have a just penalty you'll just stick them with 10 years and let them out whenever you feel so inclined. Great system.

I know this **** "happens all the time". It shouldn't.

Originally Posted by papajchris

The three strikes is more than enough of a warning for new players and old players alike to understand it is illegal. Scamming may become legal in the future, who knows, but until then it is illegal and the rules have to be followed. This isn't much different than how it was under Exolia, as we often reset the players instead of a life ban and then auctioned their items off. So this isn't really new.

No ****? I'm pretty sure we're all AWARE that it's illegal, but that's not the issue at hand. Why is it illegal? Exolia was just a shining example of a PR too, wasn't he? Globally banned now for item-spawners and various other infractions. What a great example to follow.


Honestly though, where's some administration to back this up? You're the only one defending this ****ty idea, I'd love to see some high-level staff try to explain (hopefully more coherently) how this is better.

[jkldogg]

Originally Posted by MontyPython

stuff

Agree.

Originally Posted by Tigairius

so sure weird shady guy I've never met, you can borrow my gun."

Haha, made my day.

Personally i think the new rules are hilarious. So a guy gets scammed and you delete/auction there items? LOLOL? It would be funny to have people whine about there items being deleted, but I rather you guys auctioned them. I like auctions that are like 20 minutes or less.

[papajchris]

@MontyPython It's illegal because Squirt and Deophite agreed to have it illegal 1.5 years ago i think? And I will not be unbanning any of these people. Will others? Possibly. The items get auctioned if money needs to be taken out of the economy or if there is a shortage of a weapon. Most will be deleted. Also Monty, California has the 3 strike rule, where you get a life sentence on your third strike, so why shouldn't Era do it! No but in all reality, i'd prefer resetting the players. But the "administration" agreed it is best to remove those who can't follow the simply rules of don't take what isn't yours. Also I was referring how Exolia reacted to spawners, not to his history or the administrations, so settle down

And jkldogg your looking at it wrong. if players are stupid enough to not use the functions we have available for them, then that is their fault. We can't follow every player around and make sure they are trading correctly. I mass nearly every day telling players to alwyays use itemtrade or have a PR present. The rules ALSO POP UP IN YOUR FACE every time you log on, not to mention they are also in the GP house, and on the Era wiki.

Basically, unless you are a scammer, don't know how to PM a PR, or use itemtrade, you will be protected.

@Donark And yet people still pay real money or risk getting banned for a gun over a game. A couple people in this thread included!

And i fail to understand the criticism, as the only one who has said something somewhat related is Monty. Correct me if im wrong, but you feel life ban is to long for a 3rd strike? And jkl, your just mad you got scammed by your buddy and want revenge.

[salesman]

<< is willing to bet that this policy increases scamming.

A PR is only going to help you when he wants to, and that isn't always going to be when you need it. Take it from someone who has been there -- don't implement policy you can't fully enforce. This is just going to turn into one huge headache for everyone.

[MontyPython]

Originally Posted by salesman

This is just going to turn into one huge headache for everyone.

This is exactly what I mean.

It already IS a huge headache the current way you're trying to deal with scammers. If you just made it legal again as I described in my other two posts, it makes everything fair. If someone didn't use the trade systems and loses their items, that's fair. If someone got an item from another player through means other than the trading methods, that's also fair. It's just as if someone dropped an item on the ground and someone grabs it randomly. Same principle.

Auctioning a scammed item tampers with the economy, and I think even as a money-sink it's a bad idea. If you want to go to the real world, I guess you're the government stealing property back from a thief then making profit on it by selling it to another person not involved with said property at all.

As I said before, what's the criteria for whether an item gets auctioned or deleted? It should be thoroughly thought out before either is allowed to be an outcome. And it's also (and this is the most important part) a completely unnecessary waste of resources and time. If you make scamming legal while still enforcing the trade systems fairness, every problem has a completely fair outcome and each problem takes care of itself. Want to go back to the real world? You can buy items that are legal through the legal market system. If you choose other deviant methods, such as a black market, you'll not get support from the government or local authorities.

If you intervene and start trying to play the judge, that's when you run into the huge mess of bias and inconsistency that is brought about by hiring staff from the playerbase.

Also, scamming in Era =/= committing a crime in California. If you want to treat this like real life then bring back Era Police and we'll roleplay getting arrested, getting frisked, and going to jail.

[papajchris]

Originally Posted by salesman

<< is willing to bet that this policy increases scamming.

A PR is only going to help you when he wants to, and that isn't always going to be when you need it. Take it from someone who has been there -- don't implement policy you can't fully enforce. This is just going to turn into one huge headache for everyone.

What causes the headache is the people that say "I lent the gun to my friend and he scammed me." I hear that about three times a day. Or the people that say "we dropped traded because I thought I could trust him." or a popular one "I didn't want to make my friend think I didn't trust him so I didn't get a pr." or we have people who drop items in a level thinking it's clear when it's nit and someone takes it and they complain they were scammed. Now it's basically, if your going to be lazy it's at your own risk. And tigs example isn't fake. It happens daily. Everday I get a pm from someone saying they lent a gun to someone they didn't no and got scammed. Anyone that knows me should no that I'm not lazy. But these scenarios have got to stop.

[papajchris]

Sorry for double post I'm on iPhone and can't figure out how to scroll down when I edit my other post.

@Monty I already explained how an item will be chosen to be auctioned or destroyed. And items are only being returned if u used a pr or the other methods but somehow got scammed. I guess in a sense it's legal now if you are dumb enough to ignore the safety functions. I'm assuming your in college. If u left your bike unlocked outside, and it gets stolen, it's your fault. If you put In storage and it got stolen from there it would be the schools fault. Does that make sense? Also understand it's not up to me to make scamming legal, so if you want it legal talk to Icarus. But like I said it basically is legal if you are stupid enough To ignore the pop up u get every day that reminds u to use a pr. Stealing from houses or any other storage room is obviously still illegal. Tbh I think house stealing is the only difference than it being like your idea

[Demisis_P2P]

Just make scamming legal.
There is absolutely no reason to lend people items anyway and now you're just catering to the lowest common denominator.

This is like giving everybody a license to drive as soon as they turn 17 and then dropping the speed limits on every road to 10mph to make up for the people who can't drive for ****.

If somebody is too stupid to own good items then they will eventually be relieved of them.

[Logababy]

Originally Posted by Crono

sweet, someone scam my mp5 so i can get u banned for 10 years

It will get auctioned off though.

[xTcDiabloxTc]

I personally would prefer scamming legal, with your only protections being /itemtrade and PRs watching trades. Didn't really seem to float on well with the others, so I let them decide how to handle it.

I don't like the idea of auctioning scammed items (this was brought up a LOT and I argued it til I was blue in the face). The new policy really won't change much, I think. Oh well. Guess we'll see how it goes.

[TheJames]

Man who came up with this bogus ****? I mean, yea there should be some sort of precautionary measures considering alot of the kids that play this game nowadays are 13-15 and they are really that stupid to get tricked into being scammed, but the item being deleted/auctioned? Thats bogus. You should do the 3 strike rule for the person being scammed if anything. First time, return the item, second time, jail both of them for being stupid, third just ban the kid who got scammed for being stupid enough to let this happen. I'd prefer playing with scammers then stupid idiots who are capable of being scammed.

[Logababy]

Originally Posted by TheJames

Man who came up with this bogus ****? I mean,

Some Chinese guy.

[Dnegel]

Originally Posted by logababy

some chinese guy.

etttsss

[fowlplay4]

Threads and **** discussions like these are just going keep happening when you post common-sense rules, provide useless extra detail, and what should be 'hidden' staff procedures.

Scamming should be considered illegal/unacceptable-behavior, it doesn't help anybody, and actually makes the server look bad but you shouldn't have to babysit your playercount by having stupid rules like 'borrowing is legal' and basically let the players use your PRs as Trade *****es either.

Players running around with malicious intent to ruin other innocent people's hard-work/good-time should be punished depending on the severity and whether it's a re-occurring behavior with said individual.

[jkldogg]

Originally Posted by papajchris

And jkldogg your looking at it wrong. if players are stupid enough to not use the functions we have available for them, then that is their fault. We can't follow every player around and make sure they are trading correctly. I mass nearly every day telling players to alwyays use itemtrade or have a PR present. The rules ALSO POP UP IN YOUR FACE every time you log on, not to mention they are also in the GP house, and on the Era wiki.

The way I see it is now if you hate someone you will try to scam them to get there items deleted.

Originally Posted by papajchris

And jkl, your just mad you got scammed by your buddy and want revenge.

What "buddy" of mine scammed me and I want revenge..?

[fowlplay4]

Originally Posted by jkldogg

The way I see it is now if you hate someone you will try to scam them to get there items deleted.

The way you see it is wrong and a complete backwards interpretation of the procedure.

The Scammer's scammed items get returned to their respecting owners, and if the scammer is getting banned for life then their items are either reset or auctioned.

[Raeiphon]

People probably deserve one scam restore. Just one. If you're seriously thick enough to get your **** juked twice, you probably deserve it. If it happens a third time, then I will be honestly surprised if you don't require assistance to get out of bed in the morning.

I never have liked the scamming rules. Some of us lack the patience to dig 30k shells or mine for 100 hours straight in order to get some capital to start trading ****.

[Supaman771]

Originally Posted by Tigairius

It's good that players will have some sort of backup if they're getting scammed, been a long time coming.

Oh don't get me started bro, we just had a heated conversation about me getting hacked at fault of Graal security (not myself) and said it's you're choice if I get any items back because Graals agreement doesn't state anything about protection of items. Yet you're in favor of players items being restored on a server with 90% spawned/duped items when it is their fault if they lose them? You ALWAYS change your opinion to please your audience...

Anyway:
Shouldn't it then be the PR's choice if they want to do anything about it if this is the case? Can't they just ignore it despite all the proof in the world because Graal doesn't have a warranty on player stupidity?

Yes.

gg

[cbk1994]

someone failed english class

[MontyPython]

Originally Posted by cbk1994

someone failed english class

"Happy holidays to those that benefit from it" was a personal favorite.

I had to double-take to make sure I wasn't playing some a korean mmo.