Discipline

[Mark Sir Link]

This is a change I would like to see on all official worlds, meaning Gold/Classic/Hosted tab servers.

If a player has been disciplined by jailing or banning within the past 2 weeks (I'd be inclined to say even more), they should not be able to use any staff tag that will list them under staff on the playerlist.

Why should someone who has proven extremely recently that they are unable to behave themselves serve as a representative for their server? Players, especially new players who need help the most, are most likely going to contact someone under the Staff section of the playerlist. Why leave them to someone who has demonstrated recently that they cannot behave in a professional manner?

[kia345]

Because not every server has the most competent GPs/management. The fact that staff can get punished and not have that as a strike against their job is evidence enough without having to point any fingers.

[Mark Sir Link]

Originally Posted by kia345

Because not every server has the most competent GPs/management. The fact that staff can get punished and not have that as a strike against their job is evidence enough without having to point any fingers.

I don't understand your second sentence, as I am making a suggestion to implement a system where staff will have a strike against their job when punished.

[kia345]

Originally Posted by Mark Sir Link

I don't understand your second sentence, as I am making a suggestion to implement a system where staff will have a strike against their job when punished.

I'm saying that should already be the case and the fact that it's not speaks volumes about managers' incompetence.

[fowlplay4]

This sounds like a UN-specific problem.

[Demisis_P2P]

Originally Posted by fowlplay4

This sounds like a UN-specific problem.

Yep.

If staff are misbehaving that badly then perhaps their role as staff should be reconsidered?
It gets tricky when dealing with development staff though because there is a shortage of quality developers.
On Era most developers only wear a (Working) tag, which is more of a tool than something to show off; it makes them invulnerable but also disables all of their weapons so that it can't be abused.

There isn't much else you can do because they are unpaid volunteers. In the end I guess you get what you pay for.

[Mark Sir Link]

Originally Posted by fowlplay4

This sounds like a UN-specific problem.

sounds like one, but alas, is not.

and I mean wearing a staff tag in any capacity, including temporary tags.

[cbk1994]

Wouldn't you fire any staff member if they get jailed/banned/punished? I can't imagine keeping someone after that, even if it was a small thing. As much as I'm being a hypocrite, it just makes sense that staff should be model players. I've never seen this on any server, so I guess it must be a UN problem.

Originally Posted by Demisis_P2P

On Era most developers only wear a (Working) tag, which is more of a tool than something to show off; it makes them invulnerable but also disables all of their weapons so that it can't be abused

It also isn't in the staff list, which is more for the purpose of not getting annoyed to death by PMs, though.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Mark Sir Link

Why should someone who has proven extremely recently that they are unable to behave themselves serve as a representative for their server?

I like your careful choice of words, because you were once such a person. And I'm not talking about just one instance either.

[Crow]

Originally Posted by cbk1994

which is more for the purpose of not getting annoyed to death by PMs

Or by gunshots

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by Crow

Or by gunshots

I was talking just about not being on the staff list .

[Demisis_P2P]

Originally Posted by Mark Sir Link

sounds like one, but alas, is not.

and I mean wearing a staff tag in any capacity, including temporary tags.

Based on this I guess you're targeting almost exclusively Events Team staff?
They're the most likely to screw around, but also the most easily replaced.
Just fire them and let them reapply next hiring round.

Development staff aren't going to be affected by not having a tag.
And GPs/PRs/FAQs will just be that much more likely to not do their job during the time they don't have their tag, since visibility is part of their role.
So that just leaves Events Team.

No point creating this rule just for Events Team.

[Fulg0reSama]

Originally Posted by Demisis_P2P

Based on this I guess you're targeting almost exclusively Events Team staff?
They're the most likely to screw around, but also the most easily replaced.
Just fire them and let them reapply next hiring round.

No point creating this rule just for Events Team.

I highly agree with your first statement, Events Team are in a way supposed to goof off, be an enjoyable host to be around. Things like this are what make events a lot of fun for people, as to where it can be a double edged sword and they take it too far by some forms of abuse and etc. Speaking out of pure experience here :P

I think discipline isn't the right way to go as well. Perhaps you should just buckle a little more down on the events staff if such a problem is occurring. There was a major GP issue as well but I believe GP standards have also gone up a little bit as well for UN.

[Mark Sir Link]

Originally Posted by Crono

I like your careful choice of words, because you were once such a person. And I'm not talking about just one instance either.

how careful? Up until March, the last time I played Graal in any real capacity was at least a year previous to then.

Originally Posted by Demisis_P2P

Based on this I guess you're targeting almost exclusively Events Team staff?
They're the most likely to screw around, but also the most easily replaced.
Just fire them and let them reapply next hiring round.

Not at all. It seems like non-development staff are more prone to bad behavior but this isn't always the case.

[Hiro]

Originally Posted by fowlplay4

This sounds like a UN-specific problem.

if shimmy hires me back after i get back home, then it won't be UN-specific anymore ^___^

[fowlplay4]

Originally Posted by Hiro

if shimmy hires me back after i get back home, then it won't be UN-specific anymore ^___^

Why?

UN's got a lot of work to do if they're ever going shed that 'Graal Wasteland' image.

[Crono]

UN stopped being Graal's ****hole after everyone realized it was the only bit of "Classic" left.

[Shards-Of-Fate]

Honestly. To this, I say, I don't really feel staff tags matter. I've only felt like they have been treated like they were a show off or some kind of accomplishment.

Originally Posted by Mark Sir Link

This is a change I would like to see on all official worlds, meaning Gold/Classic/Hosted tab servers.

If a player has been disciplined by jailing or banning within the past 2 weeks (I'd be inclined to say even more), they should not be able to use any staff tag that will list them under staff on the playerlist.

Why should someone who has proven extremely recently that they are unable to behave themselves serve as a representative for their server? Players, especially new players who need help the most, are most likely going to contact someone under the Staff section of the playerlist. Why leave them to someone who has demonstrated recently that they cannot behave in a professional manner?

Why were they not removed from the list or why have you given them back their rights/tags?

TLDR; I don't think that the client should dictate players disciplinary actions. Thats what admin are for.

[Mark Sir Link]

Originally Posted by Shards-Of-Fate

Honestly. To this, I say, I don't really feel staff tags matter. I've only felt like they have been treated like they were a show off or some kind of accomplishment.

I feel different. Players, especially new players, will contact someone listed as staff before a regular player with their problems.

[Hiro]

Originally Posted by fowlplay4

Why?

UN's got a lot of work to do if they're ever going shed that 'Graal Wasteland' image.

because being player-relations staff of any kind on a classic server is fun as hell, especially when you catch staff going rouge/abusing things

i like seeing the managers scurry away

[Shards-Of-Fate]

Originally Posted by Mark Sir Link

I feel different. Players, especially new players, will contact someone listed as staff before a regular player with their problems.

Sorry, I don't think this is good enough reason to support your idea.

Why isn't there a ticket system or an email for them to reach? I mean, the only people who are there for the players to contact are PR or FAQ staff. I know most people would rather not be bothered when they are on, because they are usually developing.

[LoneAngelIbesu]

Originally Posted by Mark Sir Link

Why should someone who has proven extremely recently that they are unable to behave themselves serve as a representative for their server? Players, especially new players who need help the most, are most likely going to contact someone under the Staff section of the playerlist. Why leave them to someone who has demonstrated recently that they cannot behave in a professional manner?

If you have complaints about a staff member, tell the manager. If the manager doesn't do anything to your liking, contact a Playerworld Administrator. Servers set up their own disciplinary actions based on their own culture. One-size-fits-all isn't possible, imo. Staff on Valikorlia, for example, rarely use staff tags.

[Shards-Of-Fate]

Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu

If you have complaints about a staff member, tell the manager. If the manager doesn't do anything to your liking, contact a Playerworld Administrator. Servers set up their own disciplinary actions based on their own culture. One-size-fits-all isn't possible, imo. Staff on Valikorlia, for example, rarely use staff tags.

Exactly. Classic Graal Servers have always had such a cloned hierarchy for the last ten years. There's no need for staff tags, I haven't seen many other MMO's in which staff ran around with a tag on pointing them out.

[Hiro]

Originally Posted by Shards-Of-Fate

Exactly. Classic Graal Servers have always had such a cloned hierarchy for the last ten years. There's no need for staff tags, I haven't seen many other MMO's in which staff ran around with a tag on pointing them out.

FAQs? GPs? Events Team?

[Shards-Of-Fate]

Originally Posted by Hiro

FAQs?

Write better guides, Make clearer gameplay instructions.
Edit-not to say you shouldn't have support staff.

Originally Posted by Hiro

GPs?

Perhaps. I guess I see the need to identify yourself as staff when enforcing the rules of the server. But staff tags aren't the only way of identification.

Originally Posted by Hiro

Events Team?

Why do your events have to be moderated? Script them so that they don't need staff to monitor them. That restricts gameplay to times when staff are online.

[Hiro]

Originally Posted by Shards-Of-Fate

Write better guides, Make clearer gameplay instructions.
Edit-not to say you shouldn't have support staff.

players like having a staff member personally show them or explain them things, and other player-staff like being in a position to help others out. having an impersonal guide for gameplay or quests is helpful, but it won't answer all the questions about the server itself

Originally Posted by Shards-Of-Fate

Perhaps. I guess I see the need to identify yourself as staff when enforcing the rules of the server. But staff tags aren't the only way of identification.

true, but they are the easiest

Originally Posted by Shards-Of-Fate

Why do your events have to be moderated? Script them so that they don't need staff to monitor them. That restricts gameplay to times when staff are online.

it's fun to host events. not only that, but an event is a common place area for players to abuse glitches, and in some cases an events needs to have the reason of a staff member there to keep the game going (like that crappy all-out sparring game on UN where players will kill 5 people for rate and then log off to keep it, or those who won't fight each other for long periods of time)

[MajinDragon]

Originally Posted by Mark Sir Link

This is a change I would like to see on all official worlds, meaning Gold/Classic/Hosted tab servers.

If a player has been disciplined by jailing or banning within the past 2 weeks (I'd be inclined to say even more), they should not be able to use any staff tag that will list them under staff on the playerlist.

Why should someone who has proven extremely recently that they are unable to behave themselves serve as a representative for their server? Players, especially new players who need help the most, are most likely going to contact someone under the Staff section of the playerlist. Why leave them to someone who has demonstrated recently that they cannot behave in a professional manner?

Not the right way to go about things.
You can be jailed or punished for nothing on just about every server, you shouldn't be stopped from doing your job on your working server because of that. And even if it was deliberate misconduct, so what? As long as they do their job properly, what they do elsewhere shouldn't matter imo. But i can see how keeping check of what staff do on other servers would help in perhaps spotting the likely characters to abuse e.g. a scammer on one server, a gp on another.

[adam]

It matters how a staff member acts everywhere o.O Working or not, they still represent the server they work for.

[Gothika]

Originally Posted by MajinDragon

As long as they do their job properly, what they do elsewhere shouldn't matter imo.

As long as a policeman does his job by day it doesn't matter if he's a murderer at night.. gotcha

[MajinDragon]

Originally Posted by Gothika

As long as a policeman does his job by day it doesn't matter if he's a murderer at night.. gotcha

Way to go and compare a Graal staff member acting up on another server with a murdering Cop in real life. You excel in taking things out of context.

[Hiro]

Originally Posted by MajinDragon

Way to go and compare a Graal staff member acting up on another server with a murdering Cop in real life. You excel is taking things out of context.

his point stills stands regardless of the hyperbole

[salesman]

if you're good at what you do, you can get away with just about anything (referring to developers)

[LoneAngelIbesu]

You guys really need to take your complaints to server managers.

[Mark Sir Link]

Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu

You guys really need to take your complaints to server managers.

or, you know, have a rule that makes sense implemented globally. Always a possibility.

[LoneAngelIbesu]

Originally Posted by Mark Sir Link

or, you know, have a rule that makes sense implemented globally. Always a possibility.

It doesn't make sense 'implemented globally', because not all servers share the same culture.

[Mark Sir Link]

Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu

It doesn't make sense 'implemented globally', because not all servers share the same culture.

I wish I had the faintest idea what you are talking about.

Regardless of the server's culture, a NEW player will see a player listed as staff and contact them for assistance first.

Why should a recently disciplined (especially for things like harassment/racism) player appear under that heading?

[Rufus]

Harsher punishments (global bans) for racist/harassing staff that are supposed to represent the game IMO.

[LoneAngelIbesu]

Originally Posted by Mark Sir Link

I wish I had the faintest idea what you are talking about.

Valikorlia doesn't use staff tags. Nothing distinguishes a staff member from a regular player, in terms of how they interact with each other. The only thing expected of staff is that they not be fracking idiots. It's difficult to describe to you the culture of Valikorlia; we're far more close-knit and far less sensitive than your average server. A blanket rule for staff misconduct would never fit.

If you have a problem with a staff member, contact the manager. If you don't think the manager is doing anything, contact the Playerworld Administration. It's that simple.

[Mark Sir Link]

Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu

Valikorlia doesn't use staff tags. Nothing distinguishes a staff member from a regular player, in terms of how they interact with each other. The only thing expected of staff is that they not be fracking idiots. It's difficult to describe to you the culture of Valikorlia; we're far more close-knit and far less sensitive than your average server. A blanket rule for staff misconduct would never fit.

If you have a problem with a staff member, contact the manager. If you don't think the manager is doing anything, contact the Playerworld Administration. It's that simple.

If Valikorlia doesn't use staff tags, they wouldn't be affected by such a rule change.

so again, I'm not sure what your point is.

[kia345]

Originally Posted by Mark Sir Link

so again, I'm not sure what your point is.

It sounds like what he's saying is that your plan is stupid and staff members shouldn't be screwing up to get in trouble anyway.

Managers can manage their server how they want. If they want people who get in trouble still representing their server, then that's their thing.