Monster drops- simple/practical

[MajinDragon]

Originally Posted by Stephen

We have to look farther down the road than the tip of our nose. The next generation will be forced to perform within the guidelines of the mudsystem, which has been hardwired by Stefan.

What next generation? There have been no other measures taken to ensure there will even be a next generation. Things are just getting progressively worse.

Originally Posted by Seeya

Yeah, at this point, i'd love a reset.

Reset will solve nothing. This has been discussed enough.

[kia345]

Originally Posted by MajinDragon

Reset will solve nothing. This has been discussed enough.

The only arguments against a reset are always "I wouldn't like it".

A reset by itself would solve a lot, that's not even counting the potential updates that come with it. The only gripes with resets are from people like you, reluctant to part with their shiny gear. Shiny gear, that I might add, that is completely responsible for the hole we are in now.

[StormYs]

Originally Posted by MajinDragon

Reset will solve nothing. This has been discussed enough.

This.

[kia345]

A reset at the very least would make GK more accessible by eliminating the imposing top tier players (who shouldn't exist anyway). Reaching the top, where most GK players are, is a fluke created by not restricting items well enough. On top of that, even if it was intentional to let people reach where most of us are, it shouldn't be as widespread as it is now.

An item (or item + stat) reset, by itself, would immediately put GK exactly where it should be. The only ones who ever argue against that point are the same ones who stay on GK long after the core players abandon it due to how much it sucks. I specifically point that out to highlight the selfishness of anyone who would question a reset.

[MajinDragon]

Originally Posted by kia345

The only arguments against a reset are always "I wouldn't like it".

A reset by itself would solve a lot, that's not even counting the potential updates that come with it. The only gripes with resets are from people like you, reluctant to part with their shiny gear. Shiny gear, that I might add, that is completely responsible for the hole we are in now.

I'm surprised you posted so ignorantly, and are unable to see the full picture. I'd be indifferent about a reset IF there was something exciting and new to come back to, but there won't be, just the same decade long cycle rebooted. And GK is very far from being able to reset. Resets are also the easy and careless route out of an economy/playercount problem but doesnt actually solve it.

Originally Posted by kia345

A reset, by itself, would put GK exactly where it should be.

Good grief... How can you not see the error in your thinking?

[kia345]

Originally Posted by MajinDragon

I'd be indifferent about a reset IF there was something exciting and new to come back to, but there won't be, just the same decade long cycle rebooted. And GK is very far from being able to reset.

Aside from players, the only thing that sets GK apart from the good GK people fondly remember, is the fact that people have reached the top. A reset might run people like you off, who want to continue from where you're at now, but it would open the server up to everyone else (which is who we should be catering to)

Resets are also the easy and careless route out of an economy/playercount problem but doesnt actually solve it.

Just because it's easy doesn't diminish its effectiveness.


You want GK to expand, to improve without resetting. How? There is no way. You want there to be something higher to obtain, something more to work for? There is no way. All that would do is make GK even more xenophobic, making the new people have to work even harder and longer to catch up. That's the grievance new people have now, that GK isn't accessible. ANY update that isn't a reset just makes it less accessible OR does nothing to affect players like us. And by the time they get there, you will have been demanding an even high bar for months.

By this point, there is nothing practical that be done without making the server less fun for either the hundreds of potential new players, or twelve regulars who hang out in trade. And personally, and I know I share this viewpoint with other players, the reset would make the server more fun for me too.

GK is not an arcade style game. You're not supposed to have "the best" items. It is a competitive RPG. Your items are supposed to be relatively equal, with sparse god-tier items floating around. If you want to improve the economy, you would /dropall in a ship right now and sink it.

[MajinDragon]

Originally Posted by kia345

Gross Ignorance

No one denies the effect a reset has, resets equal the playing field in one fell swoop, but you forget this is an RPG & Superiority/Inferiority are inevitable. But you're insane to believe that a reset alone would solve everything. GK's problems go far beyond the minor issue of people having actually played the game and leveled (What do you expect people to do in a level based RPG? Just sit around and chat?). GK's main problems:
Lack of Content; The lack of items offering alternatives and the lack of item attainability;Lack of ongoing development; Lack of advertising (GK needs a high playercount for a healthy economy); The lack of levelling incentives (level req gear).

New people feel daunted by their dim prospects on GK not because there are high leveled players who've just done what there is to do, but the way GK has been unintentionally designed to only cater for the minority. Resetting changes nothing, all the old systems will still exist, the gameplay is unchanged & the minority will rise again & you ( or a similar character ) would again cry for a reset.

[kia345]

I said a reset alone would fix it, not improve it. You're grossly ignorant of everything you're attempting to reply to. Try to read my posts instead of blatantly assuming all my post says is "do nothing but a reset" or "a reset will make the server perfect".

Resetting fixes the items problem: the items stop existing. You go back to alching what you need, you stop working for 30 30 30. We have enough items, we have too many released. Uncraftable/alchable items need to be excessively filtered through events.

[MajinDragon]

Your reset proposal still 'fixes' nothing. That which you wish to remove from existence will eventually return. Also the item problem isn't that they exist, it's that there's too large a gap between the obtainable and unobtainable & subsequently newer players can't progress item wise, this is magnified by the limited nature of most high tier gear which amplifies inequality.

[kia345]

Originally Posted by MajinDragon

items

Originally Posted by Kia345;

You go back to alching what you need, you stop working for 30 30 30. We have enough items, we have too many released. Uncraftable/alchable items need to be excessively filtered through events.

whoops looks like i got all the bases covered, wbu

[Seeya]

we should make this a rap thread

[kia345]

A reset is what we desperately need,
You only argue out of blatant greed
Top dog GK players like you with your avarice,
You're the only one online - you'll be the end of us.
Get rid of all this high level gear,
rework magic so we can spam fear,
clear all the e-x-p
so we can level to our destiny

[Seeya]

i feel like your not thinkin' straight
a reset wont get us anywhere, thats just the bait
where will the items come from, makes me want to pout
we can't depend on events to get items out

[StormYs]

This has been discussed so many times before, a reset wouldn't help the server. Open your eyes.
Resetting GK will only harm GK more than it will do good (Hell it won't even do anything good).

Btw, I doubt that majin is against a reset only to keep his items.

[kia345]

Originally Posted by StormYs

This has been discussed so many times before, a reset wouldn't help the server. Open your eyes.
Resetting GK will only harm GK more than it will do good (Hell it won't even do anything good).

Any expansion to the server would alienate new players in the long run. Open your eyes, it won't help.

Any update that makes it easier for new people would be unfair to older players, bad long run etc.

The only route to take is a reset, coupled with the aforementioned expansions. Regardless of how the server is altered, we need to all start back at square one, because we shouldn't be where we are now.

Obviously, the EA change worked, because +12s have become rare, but it backfired because players weren't reset, so it also became the source of fortunes that shouldn't exist. That's a small example, but if you'd stop and think about any possible update, you'd realize it would only work with a reset.

And we need one. GK was too flimsy in the beginning, and catered too much to the elitist players by releasing so many good items. The server needs to be reset, items need to be restricted, leveling either needs to be made harsher with more options for gaining experience, or simpler, with set exp routes and minor perks. You act like your high levels and 30 30 30s are good, but they're not, because those levels shouldn't be reached. That's the glass ceiling new people are supposed to be staring at in awe, not something for you to reach after a day of trading items.

And you keep mentioned "we talking about resetting before, it won't happen".

Do you remember any of those talks? It's always the same RoW fueled players, or the ones with a USD profit to be made, simply saying "it won't work" without offering any suggestions. So yeah, we've talked about it before, and every time the same 3-4 people provide the exact same reasons as to why we should reset.

Originally Posted by StormYs

Btw, I doubt that majin is against a reset only to keep his items.

We can go back and forth with this all day. I've been willing to give away RoWs and other assorted decent gear for a pat on the back and to see a new player happy, Majin refuses while still complaining about gaps between PKing players. If he wanted to help fix things, he part with his items too, because all the good gear is the reason GK sucks, anyone who would deny that only does so because they feel they worked for it and shouldn't have to part with it for the sake of improving the game, or they're the new people who feel like getting those items are the goal they should be reaching.

[Seeya]

tl;dr

[StormYs]

"Any expansion to the server would alienate new players in the long run. Open your eyes, it won't help."

Wrong.
By adding new alchable items, making almost every item gainable in game, adding more armour shops, making more quests etc. These things would improve the server, making it more fun.


"Any update that makes it easier for new people would be unfair to older players, bad long run etc."

Semi-Wrong.
By making it easier to lvl up (getting more lvling area's with different monsters) GK would gain more people, more people is more fun. Atleast more fun than watching at the bomb walls.
True that it will be unfair for the ones that struggled to lvl, but I doubt that the older players would quit because of this because GK would become so much more interesting with such a content.

"The only route to take is a reset, coupled with the aforementioned expansions. Regardless of how the server is altered, we need to all start back at square one, because we shouldn't be where we are now. "

Wrong.
The route that a reset is taking will get us into the same destination where we are now. Only people will only have a harder time to lvl than ever before because there won't be any EA'd armour.

"simply saying "it won't work" without offering any suggestions."

Wrong.
People have given suggestions but we only realised that Eurocenter or whatever doesn't give a **** about the pc version of GK. In other words, your looking at a game with no future.



So obvious what a reset would do with GK.

[MajinDragon]

Originally Posted by kia345

Any expansion to the server would alienate new players in the long run. Open your eyes, it won't help.

Any update that makes it easier for new people would be unfair to older players, bad long run etc.

The only route to take is a reset, coupled with the aforementioned expansions. Regardless of how the server is altered, we need to all start back at square one, because we shouldn't be where we are now.

You can make the game easier & more appealing to the newbs while also expanding prospects for the high leveled and not require a reset. How? With added content and making pretty much all items attainable the current rigid hierarchy will be slowly diminished without any pain caused to the devoted older players who'll most likely make excellent turnover due to the increased population who are at the bottom of the chain.

Originally Posted by kia345

Obviously, the EA change worked, because +12s have become rare, but it backfired because players weren't reset, so it also became the source of fortunes that shouldn't exist. That's a small example, but if you'd stop and think about any possible update, you'd realize it would only work with a reset.

It backfired because EA scrolls purchased before the change were allowed to still exist, as well as items that had previously been EA'd by the old scrolls being allowed to stay fully enchanted. This resulted in the obvious wealthy scroll farmers to just get a huge payday while newer players went: WTF!!. There just needed to be a wipe of all EA scrolls & a cleaning of all enchanted armors. If a reset had occurred at this time it would have only spelled disaster for GK since it's hardly enough content to justify a full reset.

Originally Posted by kia345

And we need one. GK was too flimsy in the beginning, and catered too much to the elitist players by releasing so many good items. The server needs to be reset, items need to be restricted, leveling either needs to be made harsher with more options for gaining experience, or simpler, with set exp routes and minor perks. You act like your high levels and 30 30 30s are good, but they're not, because those levels shouldn't be reached. That's the glass ceiling new people are supposed to be staring at in awe, not something for you to reach after a day of trading items.

GK failed because items were released solely through events. They were not made to actually be attainable. Because now the majority of items are unobtainable, yet incredibly neccessary and desired, we have this crazy economy where prices can be raised so stupidly & it's terrible for noobs. You suggest restricting items after a reset, that would eventually put us back to where we are, we need to spread items out through monster drops, quests, and other ways for players to explore and gain valuable rewards. Also, leveling needs to be made easier, but the obvious bugs associated with some forms of leveling (Agility & Mental) need to be stamped out, these two skills should be reset on every player. You also mention 30 30 30 shouldn't be reached, well i think you've made a grave error there. Once you make a ceiling, the goal is to reach it, otherwise, why make it? If it's to keep players below that, for fear of players being too overpowered, then that's cool, it's served it's purpose. I feel there's a bigger problem of the 30 30 30 cap being too low, and the hp/sp/grace caps also too low. We could raise it to 100/100/100 & rescale the bonuses. Ontop of this, introduce/enforce level req gear so usders can't just swoop in and be crazy strong. Reaching 100/100/100 would be impossible, but reaching the 100 limit in 1 skill wouldn't be, this would also make GK more tactical in item choices aswell as create a wide empty pool for new items to fill.

Originally Posted by kia345

And you keep mentioned "we talking about resetting before, it won't happen".

Do you remember any of those talks? It's always the same RoW fueled players, or the ones with a USD profit to be made, simply saying "it won't work" without offering any suggestions. So yeah, we've talked about it before, and every time the same 3-4 people provide the exact same reasons as to why we should reset.

Perhaps most of them can see how flawed the idea of a reset without a massive amount of content/updates would be. And a reset anyway completely destroys the work paying players have put into their experience over periods of 1-10 years.

Originally Posted by kia345

We can go back and forth with this all day. I've been willing to give away RoWs and other assorted decent gear for a pat on the back and to see a new player happy, Majin refuses while still complaining about gaps between PKing players. If he wanted to help fix things, he part with his items too, because all the good gear is the reason GK sucks, anyone who would deny that only does so because they feel they worked for it and shouldn't have to part with it for the sake of improving the game, or they're the new people who feel like getting those items are the goal they should be reaching.

Your stance on bridging the gap between rich and poor is noble, but extremely flawed. It is the nature of 95% of players to think of themselves, think in a capitalist way. Were i to relinquish my wealth, would i ever receive the same treatment? The simple answer is no, i wouldn't. Your plan would work if we were all about caring and sharing, but we're not. However, this does not make any views i have on a reset all about greed. I would accept a reset if GK were ready to handle it, and even then, i can see a strong argument against a reset & yes, it would be to protect the loyal oldies who've payed to play and grow in GK. Ethically you'd have to refund the older players. You could argue they payed to play and that they did, but it's still a difficult decision to be made.

The reason all your thoughts are flawed is that you fail to see just how influential and important the lack of content has been for GK. That has been the killer & that, above all else is what needs to be fixed, because with the addition of adequate content, the vast majority of GK's singular problems will be solved.

[kia345]

Originally Posted by Storm

Wrong.
By adding new alchable items, making almost every item gainable in game, adding more armour shops, making more quests etc. These things would improve the server, making it more fun.

Originally Posted by me

Any update that makes it easier for new people would be unfair to older players, bad long run etc.

Also, things like "making quests" and "more items" would have no effect on the players already where we are. Then, when the new people do their quests and get the items, catching up with us, we'll be having this same damn thread.

Semi-Wrong.
By making it easier to lvl up (getting more lvling area's with different monsters) GK would gain more people, more people is more fun. Atleast more fun than watching at the bomb walls.
True that it will be unfair for the ones that struggled to lvl, but I doubt that the older players would quit because of this because GK would become so much more interesting with such a content.

We shouldn't be making it "easier to level up". Then it's easier to max out. Which means you get bored faster. Look at Chaosorc. Played for a good, long time. Topped physical levels. Left the server.

Leveling needs to be long and tedious, but not a hassle to do (ie, now with just crypt and brutals). We need more options for leveling, but not easier leveling. If it's going to be easier to level, then we'd need Zodiac-esque leveling with some sort of motivation to level (skills, perks). The way GK levels, with no real progression when gaining experience, is suited toward the hard, yearly leveling.

Wrong.
The route that a reset is taking will get us into the same destination where we are now. Only people will only have a harder time to lvl than ever before because there won't be any EA'd armour.

There wasn't tons of +12 before. A reset by itself would put GK where it was in the beginning. When people struggled, worked together, and enjoyed the server. RoTs are good items, RoSs are godly, and RoWs are whispered about in the same legends you'd hear about Elvis in. If items went unchecked, then yes, we would end up here again, but with them being less handed out than they are now (and with less EAs and IWDs and what not) it would be a much longer time before people reach the top. That's the problem GK is experiencing. That there are players who have done it all. The only options to add to the server to expand the ceiling (which will only last so long and alienate new players), or work from the bottom and help the low levels (which would be unfair and have no affect on the higher up players).

Wrong.
People have given suggestions but we only realised that Eurocenter or whatever doesn't give a **** about the pc version of GK. In other words, your looking at a game with no future.
So obvious what a reset would do with GK.

Let's leave it to Majin to post useless crap, okay? Speaking of which...

Originally Posted by Majindragon

big post

Holy crap, who are you, Stephen? You used that many words just to tell me that I'm wrong, and you still managed to not make a single point. There's no point to even trying to reply to someone who only says "wrong", "it won't work", and "no". Go back to rapping, at least you could cover your lacking linguistics with the clever use of apostrophes.

Originally Posted by Majindork

something about lack of content

I swear I've said like a thousand times that I realize this is a problem, and that we need content, but GK's so far along that plugging in new content without resetting the server would fail a few months later. Like, really. Every one one of my posts. Are you just hovering over the reply button purely to say "ur wrong" without actually knowing what I'm wrong about?

[MajinDragon]

It's at the point where you're knee deep in your own ideals & so am i. You fail to agree with my view, and i fail to see the light in yours. So to save me the time of writing countless statements that will never sink it, and also save readers the eyesore of such long boring text, i'll stop trying to convince you as you're beyond that.

[kia345]

Originally Posted by MajinDragon

It's at the point where you're knee deep in your own ideals & so am i. You fail to agree with my view, and i fail to see the light in yours. So to save me the time of writing countless statements that will never sink it, and also save readers the eyesore of such long boring text, i'll stop trying to convince you as you're beyond that.

And this is where those "reset" ideas fall on deaf ears: both sides get too worn out of big words to keep their idea in the spotlight, making the rest of the server decide that, if resetting's most vocal supports are quiet, that it's a bad idea.

Unlike you though, I'm more than willing to give away my items, time, and credibility on the forums to hold GK's hand through this troubled time and carry with me the single antidote for its ailment: reset.

[MajinDragon]

Originally Posted by kia345

Unlike you though, I'm more than willing to give away my items, time, and credibility on the forums to hold GK's hand through this troubled time and carry with me the single antidote for its ailment: reset.

There's no reason for me to contribute, simply that they are poorer isn't a reason. There's a reason why I'm wealthy and that they're poor. With hard work, you can overcome those obstacles and that was the path i took. I see no reason to undermine it.

[BigBear3]

Originally Posted by MajinDragon

There's no reason for me to contribute, simply that they are poorer isn't a reason. There's a reason why I'm wealthy and that they're poor. With hard work, you can overcome those obstacles and that was the path i took. I see no reason to undermine it.

[MajinDragon]

Because i won't give out items i use for free?
Please.

[kia345]

You know that your items are a part of the problem. Every player with a named ring and prepped sword is.

I don't suggest you give them items, I suggest you stop owning them. A far better alternative would be dropping them in a sinking ship.

[MajinDragon]

I feel that your views are just flawed & extreme. You offer no real solution other than going backwards. Which would work, technically all items would be obtainable if the unattainable were removed, but it's not an ideal solution, nor one that the manager should pursue. It also requires no/less addition of content than my ideas, but the end gaming experience is vastly reduced.

[Sky]

I think everyones forgetting that GK has been around for 8 years. So, let's reset EVERYONE because we want to give newbs a chance? Now, if they started back then they would be pretty well up to par with people like majin and myself. Hell, I saw Chaos name thrown out somewhere, this is a guy that only started like not even 2 years ago and he's better then I am. LOL

[kia345]

Originally Posted by Sky

So, let's reset EVERYONE because we want to give newbs a chance?

That's not all of it. We have essentially beaten the game. By this point, no update can be geared toward players like us without alienating new players by making GK even more centric to the higher players than it is now.

[Deas_Voice]

ya, lets reset EVERYONE so even the new newbs have to start over.

>_>

[kia345]

Originally Posted by Deas_Voice

ya, lets reset EVERYONE so even the new newbs have to start over.

>_>

You don't understand how backwards GK is

[Gothika]

I'll admit I had the most fun on Graal through my first 6-12 months. It was epic when I was a noob.

[Sky]

See, I'm very confused still you sit and say GK isn't geared for newbs but I feel your forgetting that everyone was once a newb. No, I don't feel like I beat the game yet even though as I sit I'm at 72 physical and I have 30 30 30. So, I sit in confusion trying to see the logic behind a reset because I feel after 8 years were gonna be in the same boat...x.x

[kia345]

Originally Posted by Sky

So, I sit in confusion trying to see the logic behind a reset because I feel after 8 years were gonna be in the same boat...x.x

We're in this boat because some idiots made all those good items that made getting 30 30 30 not just obtainable, but expected.

Reset. Stop releasing crap.

Naith said it best, GK was the most fun when we were all nobodies with nothing. I had more fun posing as a new player on *JohnMcCain, never interacting with people for trading or getting any uncraftable items, than I've had on this account in awhile.

[MajinDragon]

If you want to relive the newb days, you can reset yourself. But your argument is still not that great. This boat we're in is one of lack of overall content.

Any updates we get are mainly geared towards low and mid level players, if anything, the over leveled are ignored, we'd all like big dungeons, hard quests and all of that, but we don't even see that. Crypt is even just a mid-level dungeon & doesn't offer much exp or farming prospects.

And this point you keep repeating about 30 30 30... It's nonsense. Example, in wow pvp/pve i can imagine there are expected levels of gear players should have to stand a chance. Not just wow simply every MMORPG there is a top-tier set or optimum level that eventually, players will reach. It's not a problem that they reach this level at all. The problem lies in the opportunities of everyone being fair and that a 1 hour old player can achieve the same in a decent amount of time. It took me over 2000 hours to get wealthy... That's just insane.

[kia345]

Originally Posted by MajinDragon

If you want to relive the newb days, you can reset yourself. But your argument is still not that great. This boat we're in is one of lack of overall content.

Me resetting wouldn't fix anything.

I know you can read, but perhaps you should start putting together the words and understanding what all of my posts say, instead of just highlighting buzzwords like "reset" and immediately coming up with a response.

Any updates we get are mainly geared towards low and mid level players, if anything, the over leveled are ignored, we'd all like big dungeons, hard quests and all of that, but we don't even see that. Crypt is even just a mid-level dungeon & doesn't offer much exp or farming prospects.

Updates geared to lows and mids do nothing in the long run, updates geared to higher ups don't do anything in the short term or the long term because we've already hit the top.

And this point you keep repeating about 30 30 30... It's nonsense. Example, in wow pvp/pve i can imagine there are expected levels of gear players should have to stand a chance. Not just wow simply every MMORPG there is a top-tier set or optimum level that eventually, players will reach. It's not a problem that they reach this level at all. The problem lies in the opportunities of everyone being fair and that a 1 hour old player can achieve the same in a decent amount of time. It took me over 2000 hours to get wealthy... That's just insane.

All of GK's gear is top tier gear. No one ever wears "average" gear, gear that features a give-and-take stat-wise. That is an extremely bad problem. I can not stress how much all of GK's issues are based around the fact that people play expecting to one day be wearing RoWs with 30 30 30 and a nice prepped + ogma'd sword. THAT is everything that's wrong with the server. That and leveling. We shouldn't be reaching the top.

30 30 30 should be unobtainable. 20 20 20 should be commonplace, 25s should ball-burstingly hard to achieve.

WoW is completely different than GK, and their gear/leveling systems have about as much in common as you and a talented public speaker. ie, nothing. If you were to compare the two, I could draw reference to GK and MarioKart and have just as good an effect. GK is different than most MMOs because there is no progression. Leveling doesn't award you skills and abilities and what not. It's just a level. A level you work for, and then do another one, with no indicator of improvement.

[Sky]

I always played GK to get better then the next guy and I'm still yet to accomplish that so I feel I still got some game left to play.

[MajinDragon]

Originally Posted by Sky

I always played GK to get better then the next guy and I'm still yet to accomplish that so I feel I still got some game left to play.

Exactly, there really is no top in GK. There's no one who is #1 at sparring, wealth and levels. There are individual leaders, who can be surpassed and that's what peoples goals should be when you start looking for the top.

[BigBear3]

Originally Posted by MajinDragon

Because i won't give out items i use for free?
Please.

No, that was just a funny picture you self-centered jerkface!

[MajinDragon]

Originally Posted by BigBear3

No, that was just a funny picture you self-centered jerkface!

You're such a troll.

[kia345]

Originally Posted by MajinDragon

You're such a troll.

You don't even know what that word means

Originally Posted by MajinDragon

Exactly, there really is no top in GK. There's no one who is #1 at sparring, wealth and levels. There are individual leaders, who can be surpassed and that's what peoples goals should be when you start looking for the top.

That's the literal top, not the figurative top that every single person in this thread has reached and openly complains about making the server suck (yes, even you).

Now, you hinted earlier that you were done with this nonsense, and admitted you were nowhere near capable of defending your point. So go back to not posting, because you've really said nothing between your first post ITT and right now.