Project Community

[Clockwork]

Originally Posted by Inverness

What has been done to attract capable scripters to the server?

http://forums.graalonline.com/forums...t=Delteria+dev

I also don't think it would be hard to make a simple classic, zelda-esque server, which judging from dusties and more threads, people really seem to like. Having the GDT pan out for positions of development would be easy with Soala taking the lead, or giving it to someone, and having that person give leadership of specific areas of development to those in the GDT who can do it, and then they can take as long as they want in developing it. At least then they have something being done, rather than wait for someone to beg for their help.

[xAndrewx]

Originally Posted by Hiro

how is what i suggested not apart of starter packs? pretty stupid huh

You're asking for a tileset. Logic? o_O

[Hiro]

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

You're asking for a tileset. Logic? o_O

starter packs > default theme > default tileset (as apart of default movement system and what not)

i mean, i guess you could have a modern server with the current default tiles...

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Inverness

If you think an opinion can be right or wrong, then that is not an opinion you're thinking of.

opinions like "i think curing cancer is a bad idea" are so retarded that the vast majority will see it as "wrong" even though, you know, an opinion can't be right or wrong.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Crono

opinions like "i think curing cancer is a bad idea" are so retarded that the vast majority will see it as "wrong" even though, you know, an opinion can't be right or wrong.

Alternatively, we would all agree the opinions of neo-nazis or other fascist groups are "wrong". Just the same here, on the more trivial scale, opinions can certainly be wrong.

[Clockwork]

Originally Posted by Stephen

Alternatively, we would all agree the opinions of neo-nazis or other fascist groups are "wrong". Just the same here, on the more trivial scale, opinions can certainly be wrong.

That's called 'difference of opinion'. Also, threads getting off topic. Focus on confused and lost GDT.

[salesman]

I've said it before (although I was directing it at CJ and people who actually make money for their work) -- if you ever want to attract more players, drop the Zelda rip-off theme and provide developers with a wider variety of options to get started.

This means more default tilesets to choose from, new default body templates, tutorials, guides, starter packs, etc.

There can still be a Zelda-themed server or two (preferably one backed by CJ), but as a "development platform" it really limits your developers and in return, what types of worlds/games they can make.

[Clockwork]

Originally Posted by salesman

I've said it before (although I was directing it at CJ and people who actually make money for their work) -- if you ever want to attract more players, drop the Zelda rip-off theme and provide developers with a wider variety of options to get started.

This means more default tilesets to choose from, new default body templates, tutorials, guides, starter packs, etc.

There can still be a Zelda-themed server or two (preferably one backed by CJ), but as a "development platform" it really limits your developers and in return, what types of worlds/games they can make.

None of that would matter if someone would have to pay more than 60$ to even start working on a server with those provided options.

Not to mention I don't see the GDT providing that large amount of stuff, when it took 9 months to get out a starter pack that could have been salvaged from the code gallery and free tiles thread in 15 minutes.

The developers in GDT are just that, developers. They are not (for my knowledge) skilled in writing particularly good guides. I see their time better spent writing the scripts and making the graphics for a server quickly, and on thier own time.

[Gothika]

One thing we really need in the starter pack is a guide to RC. Now I've been asked to "help" plenty of UC servers in the past and pretty much 9 times out of 10 the problem is something to do with the RC. For example: not knowing how to set up a gmap.

A simple, visual guide on how to the RC properly can be easy made and will make a big difference. One thing you don't want to do if you've just bought a server is spend the first few weeks trying to navigate around the RC.

[xAndrewx]

I don't think they should concentrate on producing graphics for a server.

[Inverness]

A set of scripts and graphics to support Zelda-style dungeons is something I've been interested in for years.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Inverness

A set of scripts and graphics to support Zelda-style dungeons is something I've been interested in for years.

It'd be pretty bad ass if a scripter released code for different little components - like zelda movement, zelda weapons, etc.

[LoneAngelIbesu]

Originally Posted by Inverness

Creating fancy systems to download packages directly to servers is an unnecessary waste of time for little gain. There are far more important and practical ways to invest time. The GDT is not too good to use the code gallery like every other "common Joe."

No it's not and yes it is. There's no point to the GDT if we're going to do things that we could do without being part of an officially sanctioned group (and I use that term loosely). If we do things that way, then there's no real sense that the GDT is doing anything remarkably special. That lack only deepens the overall opinion that GraalOnline, as an institution, is a complete failure. (If you need proof, here's this: the amount of things released into the Code Gallery by the GDT hasn't been any slower than the amount of things submitted by regular scripters. Yet, the GDT is called useless, not the general developing populace. We aren't supposed to be the average developers, and limiting ourselves to that is self-defeating.)

Also, a direct 'plug-in' mechanism was one of the major things discussed, and what made me first interested in the GDT.

Originally Posted by Inverness

And creating servers is not in the realm of what the GDT is about.

You would be the kind of person I'm talking about when I speak of people that predetermine and limit the GDT to the most absolutely boring of functions. There is nothing, aside from Inverness saying so, preventing the GDT from actually developing something seriously consequential. I would prefer to create an original server, but I would be equally pleased to just develop an existing server (like Delteria Dev). The key word is "server". We can only help Graal so much by releasing packs that help an ever-decreasing pool of developers.

Originally Posted by salesman

There can still be a Zelda-themed server or two (preferably one backed by CJ), but as a "development platform" it really limits your developers and in return, what types of worlds/games they can make.

Being able to choose from a few different base themes would actually be pretty nice.

[Rufus]

Who is in charge of developing global events like the Graal Olympics and the World Cup idea I put down in this thread? Seems like the GDT didn't really pay any attention to the idea, and I'm not really bothered by that, but I wonder who should be developing that kind of entertainment on a global level.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Rufus

Who is in charge of developing global events like the Graal Olympics and the World Cup idea I put down in this thread? Seems like the GDT didn't really pay any attention to the idea, and I'm not really bothered by that, but I wonder who should be developing that kind of entertainment on a global level.

I'm not sure the structure is really there to support global events on a regular basis. Also, it may be better off that occasionally an enthusiastic member of the community takes on such a task - rather than regularly.

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by Stephen

I'm not sure the structure is really there to support global events on a regular basis. Also, it may be better off that occasionally an enthusiastic member of the community takes on such a task - rather than regularly.

They're not on a regular basis though. We only have the Graal Olympics tradition here on Graal, and everything else that could be described as a "tradition" is left up to the individual servers themselves, like "Graaloween" for example. Global 'one-off' events would be a breath of fresh air for the players, and it's something we haven't seen in years.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Rufus

They're not on a regular basis though. We only have the Graal Olympics tradition here on Graal, and everything else that could be described as a "tradition" is left up to the individual servers themselves, like "Graaloween" for example. Global 'one-off' events would be a breath of fresh air for the players, and it's something we haven't seen in years.

It's probably better that they're not regular, but my my point is that I don't think we have the necessary resources to implement any sort of regular structure - that's what I said in my post.

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by Stephen

It's probably better that they're not regular, but my my point is that I don't think we have the necessary resources to implement any sort of regular structure - that's what I said in my post.

In that case I don't really understand what you mean with "regular structure" as it's a little obscure on its own!

[LoneAngelIbesu]

Originally Posted by Rufus

Who is in charge of developing global events like the Graal Olympics and the World Cup idea I put down in this thread? Seems like the GDT didn't really pay any attention to the idea, and I'm not really bothered by that, but I wonder who should be developing that kind of entertainment on a global level.

As far as I know, we've never formally discussed global events. I think it's something within the purview of the GDT to do and would be fun for the players. Given that summer is coming up and most of us will have plenty of free time, we probably should do something like this. I don't know about it being ready by the 2010 FIFA World Cup, though. That's only a few weeks away.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Rufus

In that case I don't really understand what you mean with "regular structure" as it's a little obscure on its own!

If you need to read it again I can link you a few more times but that joke has already run its course.

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu

As far as I know, we've never formally discussed global events. I think it's something within the purview of the GDT to do and would be fun for the players. Given that summer is coming up and most of us will have plenty of free time, we probably should do something like this. I don't know about it being ready by the 2010 FIFA World Cup, though. That's only a few weeks away.

I would have thought that a month would have been enough to do a single event, but I understand your concerns as I knew I'd left it a little late in the day when I posted it. I know that there are others that would be willing to help out with a project like this too. Might be worth a shot.

Originally Posted by Stephen

I can link you a few more times but that joke has already run its course.

...or you can clarify if you're looking for an actual discussion of your point of view, similar to what everyone else in the thread has been doing?

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Rufus

Or you can clarify if you're looking for an actual discussion of your point of view, similar to what everyone else in the thread has been doing?

I don't need to, you just gotta read it like "everyone else in this thread" has been doing. Wow, I didn't realize how stupid that quote was until I tried it. Nah, who am I joking? We all knew you're a clown.

[fowlplay4]

It really doesn't matter what the GDT does now, anything that gets it out of the current slump that it's in will be fine.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by fowlplay4

It really doesn't matter what the GDT does now, anything that gets it out of the current slump that it's in will be fine.

It still feels like a "feel good" thread, but we might make some suggestions. Some global events would be pretty bad ass.

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by Stephen

I don't need to, you just gotta read it like "everyone else in this thread" has been doing. Wow, I didn't realize how stupid that quote was until I tried it. Nah, who am I joking? We all knew you're a clown.

I read your post and I don't understand where your clarity lies when your first (and only) mention of a "regular structure" is within that post. Is it really that hard to clarify what you're talking about? Enough with the personal attacks too, because it is really not my fault that you are posting vague expressions. Getting déjÃ* vu here, this is stupid.

[Soala]

The World Cup event sounds like a great idea and has been discussed about a few minutes ago on IRC. The GDT forums will be running tomorrow and further discussions about the World Cup project will be held there.

Thanks again to anyone that has replied here, and don't forget you can contact the GDT anytime to get help.

[salesman]

awesome

[coreys]

I'm gonna try and help with the World Cup project, hopefully others will as well

[Inverness]

Some of you people just don't make sense.

Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu

No it's not and yes it is. There's no point to the GDT if we're going to do things that we could do without being part of an officially sanctioned group (and I use that term loosely). If we do things that way, then there's no real sense that the GDT is doing anything remarkably special. That lack only deepens the overall opinion that GraalOnline, as an institution, is a complete failure. (If you need proof, here's this: the amount of things released into the Code Gallery by the GDT hasn't been any slower than the amount of things submitted by regular scripters. Yet, the GDT is called useless, not the general developing populace. We aren't supposed to be the average developers, and limiting ourselves to that is self-defeating.)

Also, a direct 'plug-in' mechanism was one of the major things discussed, and what made me first interested in the GDT.

Just because the members of the GDT might be more experienced/skilled than the average developer does not mean we're too good to use the code gallery or anything similar.

And perhaps you should be more focused on developing the actual content, since there is hardly a need for a new delivery system unless there is something to deliver.

Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu

You would be the kind of person I'm talking about when I speak of people that predetermine and limit the GDT to the most absolutely boring of functions. There is nothing, aside from Inverness saying so, preventing the GDT from actually developing something seriously consequential. I would prefer to create an original server, but I would be equally pleased to just develop an existing server (like Delteria Dev). The key word is "server". We can only help Graal so much by releasing packs that help an ever-decreasing pool of developers.

I've supported a GDT effort on Bomy Island for months because of its history.

Developing new servers wasn't isn't a responsibility of the GDT, but naturally what the members do with their time is their business. So they can continue to work where they want or work on a new server, but there is no obligation.

[Cloven]

Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu

<stuff>

I would prefer to create an original server, but I would be equally pleased to just develop an existing server (like Delteria Dev).

Anybody who would seriously like to help out with Delteria and who has above-average skill is always welcome. With Riot and I having very busy real lives we would certainly benefit from the help and are open to a wide variety of involvement on the behalf of people like yourself (or others).

And on a side note so that I don't sound as if I am playing favorites, NPulse would also benefit from GDT-related help. If a Global Development team is indeed interested in making Graal a better place than I see no logical reason why servers like Delteria and NPulse shouldn't be somewhat of a priority. I believe that through teamwork, as community members with skills we could take the initiative to make in the game more fun by coming together.. and in the process we could also take it upon ourselves to attract more players, which is really what a lot of us want anyway. Since I am responsible for Delteria of course I need to see it through first, though afterward I would certainly have no problem aiding other classic servers in need. Heck, save for super sensitive things I'm even willing to share some things to aid in the process.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Cloven

Anybody who would seriously like to help out with Delteria and who has above-average skill is always welcome. With Riot and I having very busy real lives we would certainly benefit from the help and are open to a wide variety of involvement on the behalf of people like yourself (or others).

And on a side note so that I don't sound as if I am playing favorites, NPulse would also benefit from GDT-related help. If a Global Development team is indeed interested in making Graal a better place than I see no logical reason why servers like Delteria and NPulse shouldn't be somewhat of a priority. I believe that through teamwork, as community members with skills we could take the initiative to make in the game more fun by coming together.. and in the process we could also take it upon ourselves to attract more players, which is really what a lot of us want anyway. Since I am responsible for Delteria of course I need to see it through first, though afterward I would certainly have no problem aiding other classic servers in need. Heck, save for super sensitive things I'm even willing to share some things to aid in the process.

It sounds like a good idea for the GDT to dedicate time to a specific server.

[Cloven]

Originally Posted by Stephen

It sounds like a good idea for the GDT to dedicate time to a specific server.

There is strength to be found in numbers sharing a common goal. Help finish a server off and then move along to the next. Ultimately this makes much more sense than us randomly discussing what we're all going to do for years on end. Everyone who participates receives credit for their help. Everyone has more fun playing Graal. Everyone feels more satisfied with their participation in the process. That's called a triple win scenario in my opinion.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by Cloven

There is strength to be found in numbers sharing a common goal. Help finish a server off and then move along to the next. Ultimately this makes much more sense than us randomly discussing what we're all going to do for years on end. Everyone who participates receives credit for their help. Everyone has more fun playing Graal. Everyone feels more satisfied with their participation in the process. That's called a triple win scenario in my opinion.

I was being sincere - it's a good idea.

[coreys]

Originally Posted by Inverness

And perhaps you should be more focused on developing the actual content, since there is hardly a need for a new delivery system unless there is something to deliver.

QFT
Helping finish major projects should probably be the priority of the GDT, though, like Inverness said, it's more or less up to each GDT what they care to do.

[kia345]

The GDT should not exist as a global resource, when they would be far more useful as legit server developers. As it stands, the GDT puts alleged "great developers" in a passive aid position, instead of attaching the dream team to a server and making it flourish.

[Imperialistic]

GDT should really take initiative towards the wiki and documentation.

[WhiteDragon]

I don't understand where everyone is getting the idea that throwing a bunch of good developers at a server will make it succeed. Scripters don't like working together on large projects, it's annoying to work on bad code, and sometimes developers may not like the administration of the server. There is a big array of issues with just dedicating the GDT to a server.

I think the power of the GDT is in dedicating small groups (2-3 people) to small development projects. Or, for them to all work on stuff like common resources like the server pack, or things such as GS2 documentation, and development tutorials.

[Stephen]

Originally Posted by WhiteDragon

I don't understand where everyone is getting the idea that throwing a bunch of good developers at a server will make it succeed. Scripters don't like working together on large projects, it's annoying to work on bad code, and sometimes developers may not like the administration of the server. There is a big array of issues with just dedicating the GDT to a server.

I think the power of the GDT is in dedicating small groups (2-3 people) to small development projects. Or, for them to all work on stuff like common resources like the server pack, or things such as GS2 documentation, and development tutorials.

The problem is that everyone is talking about the "concept" of a Global Development Team. The reality isn't anything like the name implies. That's why I call this a "feel good" thread.

Originally Posted by Imperialistic

GDT should really take initiative towards the wiki and documentation.

That's a good suggestion. I tried the GS2 documentation 5 months ago and I found it lacking, although certainly useful. I know Skyld has put a lot of effort into documentation and support... he had the right idea.

[WhiteDragon]

Originally Posted by Stephen

The problem is that everyone is talking about the "concept" of a Global Development Team. The reality isn't anything like the name implies.

I agree, more or less. It is a global group of developers, but its only a group in the sense that they are in the same place, not that they are a "team".

Some coordination within the group is definitely possible -- it has happened already. But projects that require extreme teamwork would simply not succeed, such as a server.

[Cloven]

Originally Posted by Stephen

I was being sincere - it's a good idea.

I agree, and was elaborating.