Graal facebook application

[Seeya]

Originally Posted by Fulg0reSama

Yeah.. I may not be a programmer but <rest of post invalid>

see quote

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by Fulg0reSama

Yeah.. I may not be a programmer but I still have an opinion towards how a group of people can do it if they're not lazy ****s or incompetent. Also I'd be overestimating the people. The only thing I could underestimate is the work. Please be more specific when you point **** out like that

But I agree with corey. If we were to do this we should go back to where it all began as a Java client.

It has nothing to do with lazyness if 1) Stefan is not familiar with Flash and 2) He's not the kind of guy who's gonna let those who are poke around with the source.

I just don't think it's worth it.

[Admins]

We already made several Flash games... But porting the whole engine to a dead technology is not that fun. We however think of using HTML5, with Canvas or WebGL.

[KrimsonSky]

face palm.

[WhiteDragon]

Originally Posted by Stefan

We however think of using HTML5, with Canvas or WebGL.

This would be cool, but good luck locking down the source with that. That, and it'd also be terribly hard to make an efficient GS2 interpreter in Javascript, or Flash.

[coreys]

Oh my God, why is everyone still on Flash, what the ****.
Java will work.
Java will work.
Java will work.
Java will work.
Java will work.

[ff7chocoboknight]

Why use Java when you can use Flash?

[Deas_Voice]

Originally Posted by ff7chocoboknight

Why use Java when you can use Flash?

i think stefan explained that quite good.

Originally Posted by Stefan

... porting the whole engine to a dead technology is not that fun.

[Skyld]

Originally Posted by coreys

Oh my God, why is everyone still on Flash, what the ****.
Java will work.
Java will work.
Java will work.
Java will work.
Java will work.

I cannot imagine one possible reason why on earth Stefan would rewrite the entire Graal engine (including the GScript interpreter!) in a whole new different language when it won't really benefit Graal that much at all.

[Pelikano]

Originally Posted by Skyld

I cannot imagine one possible reason why on earth Stefan would rewrite the entire Graal engine (including the GScript interpreter!) in a whole new different language when it won't really benefit Graal that much at all.

corey keeps talking bull**** in threads, thinking he's going to make himself look smart.

[fowlplay4]

Originally Posted by Skyld

I cannot imagine one possible reason why on earth Stefan would rewrite the entire Graal engine (including the GScript interpreter!) in a whole new different language when it won't really benefit Graal that much at all.

To penetrate the Facebook community with a social MMO, but Java is such a bore and then effort would have to be placed to prevent people from stealing the applets code.

[Gambet]

Originally Posted by fowlplay4

Java is such a bore

That is pure and utter blasphemy.

[coreys]

Originally Posted by Pelikano

corey keeps talking bull**** in threads, thinking he's going to make himself look smart.

lol you're funny. Yes, suggesting the only logical solution for creating a Facebook App version of Graal is talking bull****.

Originally Posted by Skyld

I cannot imagine one possible reason why on earth Stefan would rewrite the entire Graal engine (including the GScript interpreter!) in a whole new different language when it won't really benefit Graal that much at all.

You are quite disillusioned if you think this wouldn't help Graal much. This could potentially be more successful than even iPhone Graal. I know several people who play Graal who don't even play any other games...except for Facebook games.

And it is possible to integrate C++ with Java, so it wouldn't be necessary to completely rewrite the engine. The logistics of doing this in a Java web app I know little about, but from what I can tell it's not too difficult to do.

Originally Posted by fowlplay4

To penetrate the Facebook community with a social MMO, but Java is such a bore and then effort would have to be placed to prevent people from stealing the applets code.

There's ways to make Java Apps more secure, such as this.

Originally Posted by Gambet

That is pure and utter blasphemy.

No, I have Java, I agree with him. It is, however, the best solution for this. Unless Stefan wants to use some more complex, less ideal solution like ASP.NET.

[Gambet]

Originally Posted by coreys

No, I have Java, I agree with him. It is, however, the best solution for this. Unless Stefan wants to use some more complex, less ideal solution like ASP.NET.

While there are better languages out there other than Java, it's not as bad as some of you put it out to be. At my university, the first two programming courses use Java as the primary language (mainly because it's object-oriented and easy to use).

Graal on facebook would make a lot of people want to play it (on facebook), but I'm not so sure that it would help out the PC game in the long run. The Graal iPhone application has been out for a bit and the PC playercount is still more-or-less the same (no increases worth gloating about), so this could be a project where a lot of work would be put into it for little return (as Skyld stated).

[coreys]

Originally Posted by Gambet

Graal on facebook would make a lot of people want to play it (on facebook), but I'm not so sure that it would help out the PC game in the long run. The Graal iPhone application has been out for a bit and the PC playercount is still more-or-less the same (no increases worth gloating about), so this could be a project where a lot of work would be put into it for little return (as Skyld stated).

The only reason it's turned out that way on iPhone is because iPhone players cannot play on PC servers (and vice versa). But there would be no reason to put those kinds of restrictions on a web based facebook version.

[salesman]

Originally Posted by coreys

The only reason it's turned out that way on iPhone is because iPhone players cannot play on PC servers (and vice versa). But there would be no reason to put those kinds of restrictions on a web based facebook version.

iPhone Graal is free, while PC Graal is wayyy overpriced. A lot of iphone players are actually being introduced to the PC version, they're just not seeing anything worth staying for...

As long as the prices are like they are now, we're probably not going to see any new players subscribing.

[DustyPorViva]

There's also the fact that iPhone players are accustomed to the Classic server they're playing, only to be baffled when they try out the PC version and it's not there. Stefan really should just take what they have now on the iPhone and copy it over to another server for PC players, just to ease the confusion of the iPhone players. Eventually they can try out other servers if they want to.

However, ya... pricing ****s the whole thing up regardless.

[Crono]

2 steps to make graal win

1) rework pricing, preferably back to the way it used to be with lifetime classic and gold subscription

2) get classic out while Classic iPhone is still popular. maybe have the social aspects (read: not events, pking, spars, etc) of it available to both PC and iPhone users if its not against Apple's policies

also stefan, fix the bug i posted in the v6 thread

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by Crono

2 steps to make graal win

1) rework pricing, preferably back to the way it used to be with lifetime classic and gold subscription

2) get classic out while Classic iPhone is still popular. maybe have the social aspects (read: not events, pking, spars, etc) of it available to both PC and iPhone users if its not against Apple's policies

Lifetime subscriptions would be the death of Graal. Graal doesn't have a steady flow of players coming in to make it work in the long-run. I'm not against the cash-shop and in-game limitation direction they're taking it as long as it's not too extreme.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Lifetime subscriptions would be the death of Graal.

It wasn't the death of Graal 7 years ago.

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Graal doesn't have a steady flow of players coming in to make it work in the long-run.

Alo? I'm trying to cater to the Classic iPhone players. If that isn't a potential flow of players I don't know what is.

[Fulg0reSama]

Originally Posted by Crono

It wasn't the death of Graal 7 years ago.



Alo? I'm trying to cater to the Classic iPhone players. If that isn't a potential flow of players I don't know what is.

It would be now unfortunately

You need more than just one rake to bring in a pile of leaves, In other words. You aren't going to pull them all by yourself lol

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by Crono

It wasn't the death of Graal 7 years ago.

Well I'm sure all these people running around with classic accounts and never having to pay is doing Graal good... Probably why the prices are so high now. It's not a very smart business decision, especially for an online game.

Originally Posted by Crono

Alo? I'm trying to cater to the Classic iPhone players. If that isn't a potential flow of players I don't know what is.

Right now, ya, but do you think there's still going to be that steady flow in a year or two when the above lifetime subscriptions start taking their toll? In order for lifetime subscriptions to work there has to be enough new players every year buying the subscription to counter-balance the players who don't need to pay for anything.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Well I'm sure all these people running around with classic accounts and never having to pay is doing Graal good... Probably why the prices are so high now. It's not a very smart business decision, especially for an online game.

That's the problem, before people still bought Gold because there were Gold servers worth paying for. Once the Gold servers began dying, they just decided to charge for Classic ones aswell. If I was a trial right now I'd never upgrade let alone stay on Graal. Try logging on with a trial account, would you really upgrade?

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Right now, ya, but do you think there's still going to be that steady flow in a year or two when the above lifetime subscriptions start taking their toll? In order for lifetime subscriptions to work there has to be enough new players every year buying the subscription to counter-balance the players who don't need to pay for anything.

Yes. I do. If Classic iPhone keeps it's popularity (I'm pretty sure it's bringing in new players everyday) a chunk of these will come to PC Graal. The biggest issue is incentive and the lifetime classic deal is pretty good.

Again, though, the problem comes down to Gold servers. If there was an attractive Gold server then you can bet a portion of these new PC Classic players will play that server too. Those who like it will continue to upgrade Gold. Just like in 2003/2004. Those who don't will continue playing Classic servers, which are currently running Graal. I guess people don't really think of it like that anymore and it really is sad.

[Admins]

Well at one point the iPhone server will be good enough to justify a re-release on PC

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by Crono

That's the problem, before people still bought Gold because there were Gold servers worth paying for. Once the Gold servers began dying, they just decided to charge for Classic ones aswell. If I was a trial right now I'd never upgrade let alone stay on Graal. Try logging on with a trial account, would you really upgrade?



Yes. I do. If Classic iPhone keeps it's popularity (I'm pretty sure it's bringing in new players everyday) a chunk of these will come to PC Graal. The biggest issue is incentive and the lifetime classic deal is pretty good.

Again, though, the problem comes down to Gold servers. If there was an attractive Gold server then you can bet a portion of these new PC Classic players will play that server too. Those who like it will continue to upgrade Gold. Just like in 2003/2004. Those who don't will continue playing Classic servers, which are currently running Graal. I guess people don't really think of it like that anymore and it really is sad.

I agree, a lot of it has to do with the content being offered... I just don't think throwing around lifetime subscriptions is going to help anything in the future.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by Stefan

Well at one point the iPhone server will be good enough to justify a re-release on PC

What I'm waiting for.

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

I agree, a lot of it has to do with the content being offered... I just don't think throwing around lifetime subscriptions is going to help anything in the future.

It gives us a higher playerbase. Players will be more inclined to upgrade if Graal is not a ghost town. Again I really hate talkin business and marketing because I know nothing about either, but I do think what I'm saying makes sense.

[fowlplay4]

I think the gold (should be renamed to Official or something) servers and people in charge need to be held under the same standards if not greater as Classic ones. If Zone or GK (sometimes) were listed under the Classic tab with their current player-counts they would be removed in a heartbeat.