New Management

[Nataxo]

Graal Drama!

[Venom_Fish]

To be honest, there isn't really a better way to handle Managers/Servers than the method used now. The PWA take into account the complaints/requests of players, and act based upon that. As an owner would in regards to his consumers. If the consumers are dissatisfied with an employee or Management, he'd have to take care of that for the sake of the overall business.

Of course, unfortunate things happen due to this process, but there are cons to everything. As idealistic as it is, the PWAs cannot watch all the Managers and base decisions simply from that, and therefore require the feedback from those impacted by his/her decisions; the players.

Their purpose given to Streety seems like one developed by players more than Administration, it looks relayed, if anything. Turn your focus to players, and as the saying goes "The great of the many, overcomes the good of the few." So it most-certainly wasn't one person, as of now, I can tell that there isn't a vast majority that are against this decision. They may not speak allowed about it for fear of prosecution, but they're there.

So look over your shoulders, before you look straight ahead at the PWAs. Of course, no matter where you look, it won't solve a damn thing. So suck it up, and lets see what this guy does. Every dog has its day, there'll come a time where Streety can take the position again, if its meant to be. Most he can do as of now, is sit in the passenger seat and rest his body from a long drive.

[Absolut_Crono]

Originally Posted by Tigairius

In short, the majority of the PWA feels that Streety is an asset to Unholy Nation, but not as a manager. For many months now we have received reports of development staff feeling disgruntled with Streety's management style and overall we are aware that a lot of the players were unhappy with his handling of player relations, or sometimes, lack thereof (consistently referring people away, even for the simplest of questions). There were also several other reasons that have been riddled throughout this thread, but the reality of it is really quite clear.

Everyone should be aware that Streety was not forced out of his position without any reserve; when approaching such situations we try to be as delicate as possible to avoid disrupting harmony and development as much as we can. Streety was given fair notice and was kept aware of our actions throughout a lot of the latter parts of the process (up to being politely asked to resign).

We know Streety has a lot of friends on Unholy Nation and is quite the charismatic person to be around if you know him, but there have been a lot of instances where favoritism has come to be a problem during his management as well.

So let me understand this, if Development staff don't get what they want a Manager gets fired? You have Managed a server before. Are you seriously telling me that the retarded ideas that come from these staff should be entertained? Have you seen what that has lead to? Xelt redid TC without permission adding lava and all kinds of random things. Xelt added a huge ugly pirate ship. Xelt added a "forest maze" and water to a random spot of our GMAP that used to be fun to drive your car through. The ideas that these "disgruntled dev staff" were coming up with were likely ones that were pointless, or not a priority. It's the Manager's JOB to decide whether a project is relevant or not, not the Dev staff who want to work on their own projects.

And as for directing people away? Let me hit you with this. Do you remember how hard it was to get a response from Spryte when she was on RC? It could literally take HOURS LOL. At least he has the common courtesy to direct you to someone who has the ability to help you to the full extent instead of giving you the cold shoulder totally or giving you half-answers. Besides that, it's our job as PR Staff to deal with the majority of Player Related issues. That's why Player Relations exist. What's the point of having a PR Admin, FAQs and a FAQ Admin, GPs and and a Chief, etc. if Streety has to take the time out to answer someone "how do I get to point x" everytime someone asks him or "how much is y worth?" or "Unban my friend plzzz he's changed honest!!!" You're not being reasonable. If we couldn't handle our jobs that's when it becomes Streety's priority.

Now you say he wasnt forced out? How does Bell saying "Maybe you should step down" constitute asking him to resign? That sounds more like someone acting as though they are concerned for you, not that you are about to be forcibly removed.

I dont even want to get into favoritism with you Tig. Let's leave that at that.

[Absolut_Crono]

I apologize for the double post, but

Originally Posted by Venom_Fish

To be honest, there isn't really a better way to handle Managers/Servers than the method used now. The PWA take into account the complaints/requests of players, and act based upon that. As an owner would in regards to his consumers. If the consumers are dissatisfied with an employee or Management, he'd have to take care of that for the sake of the overall business.

Normally you'd get written up, and in that write-up it is explained to you what you did and what is expected. Trust me, I was a Union Steward and I know this process very well. This is the stuff grievances are made of. The real issue is will Stefan arbitrate over it or not, because if the PWAs are going to stick with their decision in order to not look like fools a third party would be required.

[Imperialistic]

decisions can't be undone cron.

[Hiro]

Originally Posted by Imperialistic

decisions can't be undone cron.

yes they can, it's simply that in doing so the implications are very staggering to the ego. actions can be fine as long as they have proper reasoning behind it, and this action taken by the PWA has seemingly little reason behind it, hence the thread and it's contents

[MysticX2X]

Originally Posted by Hiro

a lot of the issues were not brought up a year ago, so that isn't the correct increment of time in which to say streety hasn't produced anything. it has probably taken months to compile and completely understand the issues with UN, both for players, staff, scripts, systems, and projects. and this seems to be overshadowing the in-game forums came in under his management, and how much of a success is that currently? if anything that's the single biggest update UN has seen in years, albeit not one i personally enjoy

and i would know: i've been on UN actively for more than just the past year, though i can never seem to break through into staff like i used too and have a deeper insight into the background problems

I've complained about the NPC's months ago. I've complained about the economy months ago. Myself and many players have complained about all the useless crap Malinko had here many months ago. I complained how the pet system wasn't the best focus of the server months ago.

Should I go on? I really have nothing against Streety, but it's really absurd to think the server was going in tip top shape and that he shouldnt of shed most of the blame. The in-game forums was a personal project of Rage. I am not absolutely sure if Streety even had influence on the creation of that, but someone can enlighten me there.

You keep expressing rage against the pwa for their decision; What exactly do you find wrong with the management choice? Most of the community seems to be in agreement with the new manager, with just a few disagreeing how the PWA went about it. Are you disgruntled with the new manager or just PWA in general? It's not really the PWA who abruptly removed Streety for no reason, but the incoming complaints from players and Staff.

Originally Posted by Absolut_Crono

So let me understand this, if Development staff don't get what they want a Manager gets fired? You have Managed a server before. Are you seriously telling me that the retarded ideas that come from these staff should be entertained? Have you seen what that has lead to? Xelt redid TC without permission adding lava and all kinds of random things. Xelt added a huge ugly pirate ship. Xelt added a "forest maze" and water to a random spot of our GMAP that used to be fun to drive your car through. The ideas that these "disgruntled dev staff" were coming up with were likely ones that were pointless, or not a priority. It's the Manager's JOB to decide whether a project is relevant or not, not the Dev staff who want to work on their own projects.

Woah Woah, Cron. No need to call out the developers who actually make the content on this server, and tell them they shouldn't have a say. From what I was told, it wasn't just a few of the staff who complained, but many. Xelt is just one person and many people abhorred some of the changes he had done as LAT Admin. It just wasn't Streety who did.

As Venom_Fish had said the post before, everyone really needs to let it go and move on. I know Backdraft has excellent ideas and a good vision. Streety is still on dev and still can voice his opinion while also helping backdraft accustom into his own position.

[Imperialistic]

sorry, I should have put "decisions won't be undone cron."

[Venom_Fish]

Originally Posted by Absolut_Crono

So let me understand this, if Development staff don't get what they want a Manager gets fired? You have Managed a server before. Are you seriously telling me that the retarded ideas that come from these staff should be entertained? Have you seen what that has lead to? Xelt redid TC without permission adding lava and all kinds of random things. Xelt added a huge ugly pirate ship. Xelt added a "forest maze" and water to a random spot of our GMAP that used to be fun to drive your car through. The ideas that these "disgruntled dev staff" were coming up with were likely ones that were pointless, or not a priority. It's the Manager's JOB to decide whether a project is relevant or not, not the Dev staff who want to work on their own projects.


I dont even want to get into favoritism with you Tig. Let's leave that at that.

Agreed in regards to Tig.
In any event, I'm not sure if you were rebudding my post or supporting it. In regards to yours, I'd fully agree pertaining to Developers having to put time into what the Manager assigns them rather than them undertaking projects of their own. Thats the Management's job, and they should have to sign off on all things released, seeing as its their neck at the end of the day. I've always said that, Developers should be "yes" men. Not in entirety, but their work should be the product of the management, not of their own wild ideas. They can request or suggest things but not take the liberty to making things a priority without the conscent of the Management or Administration. Most they should do without permission is speak. Sounds dark, but its really ideal and the best way to handle things. This is of course, only if the Management knows what he wants and what he's doing.

[Hiro]

Originally Posted by MysticX2X

I've complained about the NPC's months ago. I've complained about the economy months ago. Myself and many players have complained about all the useless crap Malinko had here many months ago. I complained how the pet system wasn't the best focus of the server months ago.

Should I go on? I really have nothing against Streety, but it's really absurd to think the server was going in tip top shape and that he shouldnt of shed most of the blame. The in-game forums was a personal project of Rage. I am not absolutely sure if Streety even had influence on the creation of that, but someone can enlighten me there.

You keep expressing rage against the pwa for their decision; What exactly do you find wrong with the management choice? Most of the community seems to be in agreement with the new manager, with just a few disagreeing how the PWA went about it. Are you disgruntled with the new manager or just PWA in general? It's not really the PWA who abruptly removed Streety for no reason, but the incoming complaints from players and Staff.

i'm "disgruntled" over the way it was operated, not with the new management (though personally i think it's a weird choice) or the PWA in general

[King homer daStupid]

Originally Posted by Absolut_Crono

The ideas that these "disgruntled dev staff" were coming up with were likely ones that were pointless, or not a priority. It's the Manager's JOB to decide whether a project is relevant or not, not the Dev staff who want to work on their own projects.

Not actually my own ideas - they came straight from my superiors at the time. So yes, it was the Manager's job, and it was his decision at the time. Get your facts straight.

Originally Posted by Absolut_Crono

Xelt added a huge ugly pirate ship.

Requested by Joe when he was Admin.

Originally Posted by Absolut_Crono

Xelt added a "forest maze" and water to a random spot of our GMAP that used to be fun to drive your car through.

Requested by Crowfeather when he was Manager, whether or not the players or simply Streety & yourself disliked it meant that it was changed; which is fair enough.

My point is that I rarely did things of my own accord/without my superior's permission, they were ultimately the manager's decision - so I hardly find it fair that you blame me.

[snoop413]

And as for directing people away? Let me hit you with this. Do you remember how hard it was to get a response from Spryte when she was on RC? It could literally take HOURS LOL. At least he has the common courtesy to direct you to someone who has the ability to help you to the full extent instead of giving you the cold shoulder totally or giving you half-answers.

when i was ET/ETA and asked spryte something she always replied. (note i didn't like spryte whatsoever). every time i ask streety something he doesn't reply because he's idling. i have heard this from many people.

[Absolut_Crono]

Originally Posted by King homer daStupid

Not actually my own ideas - they came straight from my superiors at the time. So yes, it was the Manager's job, and it was his decision at the time. Get your facts straight.
Requested by Joe when he was Admin.
Requested by Crowfeather when he was Manager, whether or not the players or simply Streety & yourself disliked it meant that it was changed; which is fair enough.

My point is that I rarely did things of my own accord/without my superior's permission, they were ultimately the manager's decision - so I hardly find it fair that you blame me.

Xelt let me clarify, I'm not saying you did things without permission, with the exception of that TC thing. I am saying it was your job to follow your manager's orders, not decide to do things on your own. If you were told to do those jobs than that is solely the fault of those managers and I respect that fact and apologize for assuming you made the 2 random areas of the GMAP of your own volition, but my point remains firm that you did that because that's what you were told to do as a dev staff. You pretty much agreed with me then, saying that you were ordered to do that.

My point in mentioning you was mostly that Dev staff, while not needing to be completely silenced, are not hired for their opinions. They are hired because they draw, level, or script well. If Dev staff complain because their vision of the server does not match the Manager's how is that the Manager's fault? Ultimately as a dev, you dev what the manager wants, not what you want. If you don't you're worthless to the server. You were doing what you were told, and thus in my opinion were a very good dev staff who produced what management at the time wanted.

Originally Posted by snoop413

when i was ET/ETA and asked spryte something she always replied. (note i didn't like spryte whatsoever). every time i ask streety something he doesn't reply because he's idling. i have heard this from many people.

Are you aware that you are probably one of the very few people to think that about Spryte? I am friends with her and even I am not blind to the fact that she didn't respond to the PMs of players in a timely manner. The facts are the facts.

[Okilian]

I read all 9 pages, I feel proud of myself.

In the end, I think all this bickering is going to get no where. Like it or not, these things happen. What matters most is not necessarily who is on top, but what's being done to the server. If the server is being led in the right direction, is that not the ultimate goal?

Having been a staff on UN, you see people come and go in the high up spot. I feel as though a majority of managers did all right. None did superb (maybe Liquid his first time around), and only a few did ****ty (AcidIce would just give people stuff). But overall, it happens. We move on. We adapt to the situation and strive to make it better. Does it happen all the time, no.

As for what happened to Streety himself, yeah it kind of sucks. Though not the first time it's been done on UN still never a good thing. In my times talking with Streety he seems like a chill dude. I will give my help to Backdraft and hope others do the same. He is the manager, whether you like it or not. Instead of *****ing about the process, just support the end.

Just my thoughts.

[Tigairius]

Originally Posted by Absolut_Crono

So let me understand this, if Development staff don't get what they want a Manager gets fired? You have Managed a server before. Are you seriously telling me that the retarded ideas that come from these staff should be entertained? Have you seen what that has lead to? Xelt redid TC without permission adding lava and all kinds of random things. Xelt added a huge ugly pirate ship. Xelt added a "forest maze" and water to a random spot of our GMAP that used to be fun to drive your car through. The ideas that these "disgruntled dev staff" were coming up with were likely ones that were pointless, or not a priority. It's the Manager's JOB to decide whether a project is relevant or not, not the Dev staff who want to work on their own projects.

And as for directing people away? Let me hit you with this. Do you remember how hard it was to get a response from Spryte when she was on RC? It could literally take HOURS LOL. At least he has the common courtesy to direct you to someone who has the ability to help you to the full extent instead of giving you the cold shoulder totally or giving you half-answers. Besides that, it's our job as PR Staff to deal with the majority of Player Related issues. That's why Player Relations exist. What's the point of having a PR Admin, FAQs and a FAQ Admin, GPs and and a Chief, etc. if Streety has to take the time out to answer someone "how do I get to point x" everytime someone asks him or "how much is y worth?" or "Unban my friend plzzz he's changed honest!!!" You're not being reasonable. If we couldn't handle our jobs that's when it becomes Streety's priority.

Now you say he wasnt forced out? How does Bell saying "Maybe you should step down" constitute asking him to resign? That sounds more like someone acting as though they are concerned for you, not that you are about to be forcibly removed.

I dont even want to get into favoritism with you Tig. Let's leave that at that.

Yes, I remember how difficult it was to get a response from Spryte, and she was removed as manager just as well.

I have given you almost no specific information about the situation and you seem to be jumping directly to conclusions that the only PMs Streety pushed away were PR-related, which is not true. Not everything can nor should everything be handled by PR staff, there are certain things that require managerial attention.

Please, if you have some problems with any of my actions (and suspect favoritism) I would like for you to express your concerns to me privately via forum PM so that I may correct them (or contact my direct superior, Bell) because I do not favor anyone on Graal.

[Luda]

Originally Posted by tigairius

i do not favor anyone on graal.

lol

[Fulg0reSama]

That's somewhat odd, Whenever I'd pm streety I wasn't really ignored really. I mean maybe id wait but wasn't ignored necessarily. weird. As fun this thread is to bicker and argue on. Hasn't this thread somewhat finished up? No use poking a dead body with a stick (Though it is fun)

[Imperialistic]

Cron, no offense.. But Streety is a big boy, he can handle his own situation.

[CharlieM]

See here's what I don't get, I barely play UN yet I saw that Streety was doing some work. A lot more then one of Era's managers was doing and he had manager a lot longer, and they let him step down. It's BS that streety got fired but all it takes is 1 person complaining based on when demisis got fired from manager because someone complained that he didnt answer PM's.

Streety did good as manager from what I saw when I was on UN, but w.e.
Also most of the people I saw posting were neutral so obviously theres a lot of the community afraid to share there views, or most didn't care.

[joel34]

So what are Streety gonna do now?

[Cubical]

Originally Posted by joel34

So what are Streety gonna do now?

/dance?

[Fulg0reSama]

Originally Posted by CharlieM

I saw posting were neutral so obviously theres a lot of the community afraid to share there views, or most didn't care.

I posted my thoughts about it, But no offense to streety but I couldn't care less about this whole thing

[Okilian]

Originally Posted by cubical

/dance?

+1

[Bell]

I personally do not like making a public spectacle of any management change. I feel it does no good for the server or the parties involved in the change. This situation did not end as I would of wished and both Backdraft and myself have left doors open with Streety that I hope he decides to take.

I agree that in some things it could of been handled differantly but hindsight is 20/20 and no managerial change is perfect. Even those done by the manager themselves often have their problems. I've explained myself at length to Streety so he's fully aware of how we came about this decision now. He may not agree but thats his choice and I respect his opinion of it.

There has been many comparisons with past UN management in this and other threads and we can all agree on one thing. Streety was a good manager while he was still actively managing. Just recently he's given myself and the other globals the strong sense he's burning out. He may not have seen it himself but its there. Instead of going down in flames and leaving Graal on a sour note. I would far prefer to have him take some time away from the pressure of management and stay interested in the server itself.

You may or may not agree with me on this, it really doesn't matter to me. This was the decision that was made in what we felt was in the best interests of the server and Streety and thats just how it is. This wasn't the first controversial judgement made by the PWA and I'm sure it won't be the last. Its just the nature of the beast.

[Clockwork]

Originally Posted by Bell

He may not agree but thats his choice and I respect his opinion of it.

Obviously your respect doesn't mean very much if you take the word of an anonymous email more highly than Streetys and TSAdmins (and some of us here in this thread).

[Bell]

Originally Posted by Clockwork

Obviously your respect doesn't mean very much if you take the word of an anonymous email more highly than Streetys and TSAdmins (and some of us here in this thread).

I do believe I explained myself to Streety himself quite clearly.

[zephirot]

Streety has always been cool with me, answering my PM almost instantly etc etc, so I don't understand where you're all coming from.
But eh I'm the PWA around here.

[Fulg0reSama]

Current Status of thread
Players of UN: Mixed feelings but mostly pissed
Non Players: Mixed as well but mostly sad

Conclusion: People have made their say of the matter and the thread is pretty much done.

[Clockwork]

Originally Posted by Fulg0reSama

Current Status of thread
Players of UN: Mixed feelings but mostly pissed
Non Players: Mixed as well but mostly sad

Conclusion: People have made their say of the matter and the thread is pretty much done.

Why do you keep trying to end the thread? If you have a problem with it, just ignore it and look at other threads.

[snoop413]

Are you aware that you are probably one of the very few people to think that about Spryte? I am friends with her and even I am not blind to the fact that she didn't respond to the PMs of players in a timely manner. The facts are the facts.

and who is giving you these facts? i'm not trying to argue that spryte was a good manager, in fact she's probably one of the worst. but every time i had a question, or if i needed rights she would respond pretty quickly and either give them to me or just do what i needed for me. player wise, i have no idea. but i have noticed streety idles on rc a lot, and i have seen in masses people saying he ignores their pm's. so if you say spryte is bad with the players for ignoring pm's then how is streety any better when he does it too?

[CharlieM]

Streety didn't though, He answered cross server PM's when most staff members disable it.

[fowlplay4]

Originally Posted by CharlieM

Streety didn't though, He answered cross server PM's when most staff members disable it.

If they can't log on the server and PM you, then they probably don't need to PM you that bad.

[SwimChao]

I never intended on a 10 page argument when I posted this thread. I am appreciative towards the defense, but I was never angry about my removal.

My opinions were directed towards how I was removed. I have been emailing Bell back and forth the past 48 hours (Edit: I wrote days on accident, woops), and finally have been provided the information I was looking for. I have always supported Backdraft, and already told him that if he had any questions about the ropes of UN, I would be available to help.

I must admit that I feel awkward socializing with the other staff on RC right now. I feel like, as I said to another person, a thousand hateful eyes are staring at me whenever I interject. I assume that will subside.

As for my management, it's no secret that the past two months haven't been my best. A lot had gone on in between now, and December, but nobody is to blame but myself. I apologize to UN's staff and player base for the injustices I caused.

[Elizabeth]

Originally Posted by Fulg0reSama

Current Status of thread
Players of UN: Mixed feelings but mostly sad
Non Players: Mixed as well but mostly sad

fixed

[Nataxo]

Look @ the bright side!

This whole situation has made UN's playercount bigger lately!

[BigBear3]

I like Streety. I don't play UN much but you're a good guy bro. Godspeed in your endeavors.

[joel34]

Originally Posted by Cubical

/dance?

Lmao.

[Fulg0reSama]

Originally Posted by Clockwork

Why do you keep trying to end the thread? If you have a problem with it, just ignore it and look at other threads.

For the luls of aggravating people. If you don't like my attempts than maybe you should just wait for something better in the thread to sorry .

But it is true this thread is kinda going in a repetitive cycle.

To elizabeth(too lazy to quote):
Current Status of thread
Players of UN: Mixed feelings but mostly mad
Non Players: Mixed as well but mostly sad to hear

Both of us were wrong but i managed to fix it!

[Hiro]

Originally Posted by Bell

I personally do not like making a public spectacle of any management change. I feel it does no good for the server or the parties involved in the change. This situation did not end as I would of wished and both Backdraft and myself have left doors open with Streety that I hope he decides to take.

I agree that in some things it could of been handled differantly but hindsight is 20/20 and no managerial change is perfect. Even those done by the manager themselves often have their problems. I've explained myself at length to Streety so he's fully aware of how we came about this decision now. He may not agree but thats his choice and I respect his opinion of it.

There has been many comparisons with past UN management in this and other threads and we can all agree on one thing. Streety was a good manager while he was still actively managing. Just recently he's given myself and the other globals the strong sense he's burning out. He may not have seen it himself but its there. Instead of going down in flames and leaving Graal on a sour note. I would far prefer to have him take some time away from the pressure of management and stay interested in the server itself.

You may or may not agree with me on this, it really doesn't matter to me. This was the decision that was made in what we felt was in the best interests of the server and Streety and thats just how it is. This wasn't the first controversial judgement made by the PWA and I'm sure it won't be the last. Its just the nature of the beast.

so before he could ruin anything you removed him then? where was the lack of interest in the server? don't all people have things to take care of aside from the internet? simply by the way you removed him shows how poor the decision was

yeah you're not going to change your mind, but using some parent-child reasoning of "that's just how it is" doesn't exactly make sense in this case. i'm sure streety didn't want to quit, yet he was removed anyways based on evidence that you PWA don't even have and can only assume

so whatever, let's move onwards towards making graal a good game again

[Venom_Fish]

All that was needed to be said has been said, alongside what wasn't needed as well.
Everyone's vented their opinions/feelings and so on.
Someone close this thread. There's really nothing more to be said.

Good luck Backdraft.