Monthly Spar Tournament: April 2009

[BlackSolider]

Ok its 9:30 and I've been staring at a computer screen for probably 12 hours today. So forgive me if I miss something.

Ok so are you just saying we should do X location spars and then X summon spars in order to avoid switching it up? If thats the case then I wouldn't have any problem with that. I'm still trying to figure out how being able to "adjust based on the playercount" will end up with a different big tournament than we currently have.

Keep in mind that I can't really think straight right now so do have mercy with the back lash.

[Rufus]

Someone massed that it is like a FAQ application trying to get into the tournament though, and I agree. I think that the purpose of location spars are to encourage players to frequent the server and explore though, giving them a greater familiarity of the server to ensure that they can get a place within the tournament. It doesn't really work like this though, because most people couldn't care less where Tatsumi or Gemini's spar arena is. In fact, most spars look the same anyway with their stolen Exodus scripts, so why would anyone care to remember them? I only know them because I've played for years. I think at this stage it doesn't add a fun factor to the spars that it should be doing and is frustrating outsiders of the server, but it doesn't really bother me.

[StrykerTFFD]

Originally Posted by BlackSolider

Ok so are you just saying we should do X location spars and then X summon spars in order to avoid switching it up? If thats the case then I wouldn't have any problem with that. I'm still trying to figure out how being able to "adjust based on the playercount" will end up with a different big tournament than we currently have.

It won't without really looking at the player count, I'm just saying if there are more location spars you in theory will need less people wanting to take part and not the '32' that gets thrown around since somebody can take part multiple times.

[BlackSolider]

@ rufus:

I've always felt that it was far more of a challenge to try and get to an arena first (or second) than trying to pm the gc first (or 2nd). One requires actual effort. Thats what I've always felt. I want to earn my way into the tournament, and then earn my way to the title. I don't want to get a free pass b/c me and some UN noob pmed the GC first.

Maybe thats just me.


@ styker:

When I used 32 (assuming you meant me) I was referring to the big tournament bracket that would require 32.

[StrykerTFFD]

I know. In order to do a huge elimination tournament you'd need 32 people. That's really the only reason I suggested keeping location spars since 32 people can be a pain.

A series of location spars followed by a series of summoned ones eliminates confusion, gives people a window of opportunity who can't do location spars, and limits the chances of multiple entries but can also benefit from multiple entries depending on the player count. It also doesn't really change the way the event has been done just shifts it slightly.

Win win imo.

[BlackSolider]

So just do locations first and then summon spars? Sounds reasonable.

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by BlackSolider

So just do locations first and then summon spars? Sounds reasonable.

Other way around.

[BlackSolider]

Whatever. The point is to do them in a set order, right?

[StrykerTFFD]

Originally Posted by BlackSolider

So just do locations first and then summon spars? Sounds reasonable.

I would prefer this for the following reason -

If you do location spars first you get the players who play the server out of the way so that those who don't really know the locations can fill in on the summon spars. If you do summon spars first the problem still exists of those who don't know the server not getting a fair shake.

But yes, a set order so people who are relying on the summon spars aren't scrambling for their shot at a random moment.

[BlackSolider]

Makes sense.

[MysticX2X]

Hey, let's let the players anticipate what our next type of spar is so they can either follow us around or hold their cursor over the send pm button!

Genius!

[StrykerTFFD]

Originally Posted by MysticX2X

Hey, let's let the players anticipate what our next type of spar is so they can either follow us around or hold their cursor over the send pm button!

Genius!

If you warp like a good staff member would you couldn't be followed.

You like the alternative of mass confusion and those who don't play the server feeling alienated? Events are suppose to attract players, not push them away.

Also, I'm pretty sure anyone with half a brain is already sitting there with their PM ready just in case you do say the next one is a summon spar. That same player is also right clicking you to see where you are just in case you say location spar. Just cut the confusion.

[MysticX2X]

Usually I went to level 14 before massing any location.

What I am saying is to keep the order of the spars random so it doesn't become so expected, really. Though during the monthly I did my spars in a pattern of 2 location 2 summon 2 location etc.

Also, the monthly spar status quo is always explained in the opening mass. I've tried sort of arguing with Night before about the location spars but he wouldn't change anything in the slight, though we're going to see about changing the way some people had 4 chances in the qualifications.

[BlackSolider]

If person A has 4 chances to qualify and persons B and C don't b/c of him, then that isn't fair. But do remember that everyone has an equal chance on the summon spars. If someone just pms faster, then so be it.

[Shadow87]

You know, how long has the monthly been going on now? Has it ever had to change? I'm sorry but i think this is pointless, no matter if this is an argument, or just a debate, I feel there is no need for change in any of it, its always worked up until someone decided to open their mouth just because they weren't good enough nor fast enough to make it in.


Monthly is the only thing classic has left that actually shows what skill a player has to spar, you have to fight your way in, race your way in, and fight to the top.

Whoever doesn't like the way its ran, get the hell over it now before you ruin it for us.

[BlackSolider]

Above post is agreed upon by Gladius.

[MysticX2X]

Do realize that some aren't from this server and don't grasp things as fast as the Classic Regulars. If we wanted this tourney solely for Classic Regulars, why the hell not call it Singles V2?

Tats, you can't deny the fact you had 4 chances was absurd as hell considering how many people were LEFT OUT. Including the defending champ.

[BlackSolider]

How hard is it to pm a gc. Everyone has an equal chance statistically.

[MysticX2X]

There are only 8 chances. Qualification is supposed to weed sparrers out. Not have Tatsumi come back once he is defeated 2-3 times.

[BlackSolider]

Qualifications are supposed to get the best 16 sparrers online and bring them to the big dance. If we did "one and done," people would be too scared to join early on b/c they might face someone good and thus be locked out of the tournament well before it began.

Besides, whats stopping people from pming in before tats? Oh right. Nothing.

[jacob_bald6225]

I heard Tatsumi is a time traveler anyway... there is no way we could predict and beat him to the location spars or summon spars. He lives in each moment of time simultaneously.

[BlackSolider]

Well then I guess we couldn't stop him from getting 2-3 chances no matter what format we did. Case closed.

[MysticX2X]

Originally Posted by BlackSolider

Qualifications are supposed to get the best 16 sparrers online and bring them to the big dance. If we did "one and done," people would be too scared to join early on b/c they might face someone good and thus be locked out of the tournament well before it began.

Besides, whats stopping people from pming in before tats? Oh right. Nothing.

I dont care if sparrers have 2-3 chances, but 4 is absurd, especially when SEVERAL PEOPLE DIDNT GET IN INCLUDING THE DEFENDING CHAMP. Wow you don't address this point, do you.

The monthly gathers the 16 top sparrers online, not the 16 fastest pmers online.

Learn the difference.

[BlackSolider]

I've already addressed the point. They had the same exact chance to pm in as tats did. If they didn't get in the summons, thats their own fault, not Tats.

And how else would you get the top 16 sparrers? Rating? Apparently that can be lamed. All location spars? Apparently biased to the home team. All summon spars? Apparently biased to fast typers.

Look dude. Everyone had the same chance to get in as Tats. They simply didn't. Wtf do you want us to do? Include every single person from UN that wants to spar? Please. They had the same exact chance to get in (with summon spars) and they didn't. Now they're crying. End of story.

[MysticX2X]

Originally Posted by BlackSolider

I've already addressed the point. They had the same exact chance to pm in as tats did. If they didn't get in the summons, thats their own fault, not Tats.

So the monthly just for Tatsumi or all people from graal?

And how else would you get the top 16 sparrers? Rating? Apparently that can be lamed. All location spars? Apparently biased to the home team. All summon spars? Apparently biased to fast typers.

The rhetorical bull**** is getting a bit annoying. The current method is fine but the number of chances some get is not.

Look dude. Everyone had the same chance to get in as Tats. They simply didn't. Wtf do you want us to do? Include every single person from UN that wants to spar? Please. They had the same exact chance to get in (with summon spars) and they didn't. Now they're crying. End of story.

What I am asking is for a limit on how many people can try before getting into the real tournament. Pretty sure qualifications are there for the sole fact for the lack of a 32 man tournament (at least that's what it's good for now). It's supposed to weed out sparrers so we have the best for the 16 matches. Hence why its called PRE ELIMINATION. 2 chances if ok but 4 is out of hand. Why does Tatsumi get 4 chances? Why cant everybody else have 4 chances? Not everybody else can be as fast. We're trying to attract players to Classic, not give every Classic regular the bull**** advantages they need. I know you're all for keeping UN kids out, but do you really think Classic has many loyal players to begin with?

I want it so we actually get more people participating. I had complaints of people not knowing where most **** is and whenever we did summon spars, people knew because we (Well I kinda) didn't really make it unapparent that we were doing summon spars as.

Night agreed the number of chances Tatsumi got was a bit out of hand, but it depends on the playercount. How can you still fight against it if the GC Admin can be a bit rational on this subject? If we had 40 people, would you agree Tatsumi having 4-5 chances would be any better. Actually, we did.

[BlackSolider]

Everybody has 16 chances to get in, in theory.

People from classic have a minimum of 8 and a maximum of 16. People not from classic have a minimum of 8 and a maximum of however many spar locations they can find/know from previous visits.

Hmmm...so everyone has a minimum of 8 chances. Go ****ing figure. Where in the rulebook does it say that we should punish people for getting to the location first? Where in the rulebook does it say we should punish people for pming in first? No where, thats where.

Everyone has 8 chances to get in. If they don't get in, its their problem. End of story.

[Gotenks_Gore]

i dont mind it, if the UN kids want to try our monthly then they should actually play classic and find out where the spars are, but no instead they cry...

[MysticX2X]

Originally Posted by BlackSolider

Everybody has 16 chances to get in, in theory.

People from classic have a minimum of 8 and a maximum of 16. People not from classic have a minimum of 8 and a maximum of however many spar locations they can find/know from previous visits.

Hmmm...so everyone has a minimum of 8 chances. Go ****ing figure. Where in the rulebook does it say that we should punish people for getting to the location first? Where in the rulebook does it say we should punish people for pming in first? No where, thats where.

Everyone has 8 chances to get in. If they don't get in, its their problem. End of story.

Apparently not if tatsumi took 2-3 of them.

I mean seriously, how many chances does someone get to have when entering the monthly? If you cant win in one or two matches, then you just arent the best on (No offense Tatsumi).

In theory thats how many chances people get but how many foreigners realize that summon spars are overran by Classic's players holding their cursor over their send pm? It's not a habit you see anywhere other than Classic other than maybe era events for their event button.

[BlackSolider]

Do remember that it takes two to spar. Tats has to face someone...perhaps someone from UN could have faced him? Oh wait, they didn't pm in fast enough. Think I've said this before.

Besides, why would you want to limit people? IT'S CALLED FREEDOM1!!!1 The freedom to try and get in the tournament. The freedom to try and win it all. Don't take someone's freedom away just b/c some UN noob wants in. He has 8 ****ing chances, the same minimum as anyone else. What about "minimum 8 chances" do you not get? Everyone has the SAME amount of chances. Tats didn't get four chances. He had 8. He simply got into 4 spars, 3 of which were against pretty good sparrers. Why penalize someone for that? "Oh hey, you lost to thor and ares. You don't get any more chances now because Zojo over here, from UN, wants to get in even though you pmed first. That's fair right? I know zojo lost by 4 in his qualifier earlier, but its fair to only give you two chances cause you lost to two good sparrers."

Seriously dude? Wtf is that. You're going to limit someone? That doesn't sound very fair. If anything, its NOT fair. You're going reject someone who WON the race to a location, or WON the pm race? You're going to reject a WINNER for a LOSER? Fair? FAIR? Wtf kind of ideals do you have man. Everyone has a minimum of 8 chances. EVERYONE. How is that not fair? It's completely fair. The sooner you get that through your head, the better.

[MysticX2X]

Perhaps you never been to a real tournament or witnessed a real tournament and their qualification style. Usually you don't get second chances in qualification too often but consider that a blessing for Classic to get 4 despite how unfair that is. Ask Clel about it, he attends a lot of tournaments.

We cant define who is good or not since everyone has their own opinions, so you can't say the people Tats lost to were good because not all really weren't. The monthly should follow what is right for all and not what Gladius thinks is right. Night agreed with me in some fashion yet you are still defending such a meaningless point.

im not suggesting to limit anyone. 4 chances is absurd and it ruins the event for some people who may not be fast enough.

Learn qualification first before coming back to me.

[BlackSolider]

Apparently you are stuck with the notion that only one person had 4 chances. Let me correct you. Everyone had a minimum of 8 chances to get in. You can't argue that.

Idk man, how many tournaments have you been in? I've been involved in a few (football). Do you know how many chances teams get to qualify in high school? Ten. Every single team gets the same number of games, and therefor has an equal number of chances.

Ever watch college basketball? How many chances do teams get to qualify for their conference tournaments? Oh guess what. The same number.

Ever watch pro football? How many chances to teams get to qualify for the playoffs? Hmmm...the same number!

I think I see a pattern. If every team (or person) has the same number of chances to qualify...then its fair! GO ****ING FIGURE. No one complains about it "not being fair" for the NFL or college basketball. Why? Cause every team has the same amount of chances to get in. What they do with those chances is completely up to them.

Do you get it yet? Same number of chances for everyone = fair. If people don't take advantage of their chances, for whatever reason, they don't get in. If teams don't take advantage of their chances during their schedule, they don't get in. Pretty simple. Pretty logical. So why don't you get it?

[LordSquirt]

Just stating my opinion. As a un-native classic player, I never had a problem entering the tournament. Every single time I was on and participated in the tournament I always broke into the top16. I never saw a problem with the way this was hosted, but whatever.

[Gotenks_Gore]

calm down dino dude
mystic stfu you do this with everything that glad says
squirt finds it fair....

[MysticX2X]

Originally Posted by BlackSolider

Apparently you are stuck with the notion that only one person had 4 chances. Let me correct you. Everyone had a minimum of 8 chances to get in. You can't argue that.

Yeah. Everyone who is a Classic player got 8 decent chances.

Idk man, how many tournaments have you been in? I've been involved in a few (football). Do you know how many chances teams get to qualify in high school? Ten. Every single team gets the same number of games, and therefor has an equal number of chances.

Really? You took note sitting on the bench? Geez, that's something new. Oh youre also forgetting that every team is GUARANTEED that chance. Why did you bring up such a stupid point? Same goes for your college basketball. They're all guaranteed the spot no matter what. You bring up moot points.

I think I see a pattern. If every team (or person) has the same number of chances to qualify...then its fair! GO ****ING FIGURE. No one complains about it "not being fair" for the NFL or college basketball. Why? Cause every team has the same amount of chances to get in. What they do with those chances is completely up to them.

How is it fair when a few Classic regulars already know the loopholes in this system? (Holding cursor, following gc, etc.). Enlighten me, Gladius?

Do you get it yet? Same number of chances for everyone = fair. If people don't take advantage of their chances, for whatever reason, they don't get in. If teams don't take advantage of their chances during their schedule, they don't get in. Pretty simple. Pretty logical. So why don't you get it?

I would of got it if your points didn't suck.

The point is, Tatsumi had 4 chances. You shouldn't get that much in a qualification match. The point of qualification is to weed out sparrers so that it can fit the 16 man bracket. No that does not constitute some people getting a **** load of chances to give the foreigners no chance at all. I dont even think you should get more than one chance but our playercount can't support that so 2 or 3 would be acceptable, but definitely not four.

C'mon. Night finds rational with me. Storm agrees too that 4 chances is a bit too much. What keeps you defending this point so much?

@Gotenks: You somehow forget the thinking part when you post. Me and Glad do this all the time when one disagrees with the other. And lol at thinking if squirt thinks it's fine, then it is. Well I dunno, maybe because he's used to knowing where most places are and how to PM? Are you going to troll me on these forums too? That's not surprising. Don't reply, I'm not responding to you.

[Gotenks_Gore]

troll? right like you havent done crap too but when GOD FORBID if i do something you burst into tears and run to your new keyboard closet to grab a new one when you short it out
i post what happens to pop into my head at the first second i read your crap then i think about it and just leave it like that so you complain more
and you seriously do this every time glad says something but w/e we're used to it
i was usng squirt as an example because he rarely logs onto classic

[Ares]

crush you all next monthly

[BlackSolider]

Originally Posted by MysticX2X

Yeah. Everyone who is a Classic player got 8 decent chances.

As much as I don't like quoting myself, let me correct you as usual:

Originally Posted by BlackSolider

People from classic have a minimum of 8 and a maximum of 16. People not from classic have a minimum of 8 and a maximum of however many spar locations they can find/know from previous visits.

Originally Posted by MysticX2X

Really? You took note sitting on the bench? Geez, that's something new. Oh youre also forgetting that every team is GUARANTEED that chance. Why did you bring up such a stupid point? Same goes for your college basketball. They're all guaranteed the spot no matter what. You bring up moot points.

All the teams are guaranteed a chance you say? Really? Last time I checked the official NCAA tournament has 65 slots. Every team? Perhaps you're referring to the conference tournaments which, to my knowledge, do have every team involved. But do recall that those tournaments have X amount of slots and thus fill them with X amount of teams. Doesn't quite fit what we're talking about.

Originally Posted by MysticX2X

How is it fair when a few Classic regulars already know the loopholes in this system? (Holding cursor, following gc, etc.). Enlighten me, Gladius?

If UNers came to the monthly more than once, they'd know how it works, just like classicians. Familiarity with the system is not something we can compensate. What we can compensate is explaining how our system works (8 location spars w/ first two sparring, and 8 summon spars w/ first two pmers sparring.) If they can't figure out how to try and gain an edge to be first, thats their problem. Besides, WHY THE **** ARE YOU CATERING THE FOREIGNERS? It's called the Classic Monthly Spar Tournament for a reason. It's about finding the best sparrer on classic. The people that have done it before will have an edge. It's called being a pro. The people who play on the server will have an edge. It's called home field advantage. If a classician has competed in our tournament before, why the hell should we penalize him for being a bit quicker? It's not his fault he knows whats going on. Don't try to penalize experience by making our server "foreigner friendly". If a classician is able to get into more spars than a UNer, thats not his ****ing fault. It's the fault of the UNer for not trying harder. If you want in our tournament, you got to earn it. We can't just give a free pass to people from other servers just for a public relations bonus. Hell no. We go with what works. This system has worked for years and has never had any major problems until recently when some UN cry babies weren't fast enough on a foreign server. Thats not OUR problem, its theirs. They didn't get in because they were new here and only came for a one time visit. They didn't have the experience. They sure as hell didn't have the homefield advantage. Why are you trying to cater to these cry babies? Because you have a history on UN? Idk man. You're raising so much hell over this going to night and storm and ****. We've never had a problem before.

Look dude. We host 8 summon spars. That means EVERYONE has EIGHT mother ****ing chances to get in our tournament REGARDLESS of what server they come from. If they're too ****ing slow to pm faster, especially in the later spars (less ppl pming,) thats their own ****ing fault. We've done it this way for years and we're not changing it because it WORKS. Simple as that. Everyone has the same ****ing eight chances and you can't ****ing deny that.


Phew. Ranting over, unless mystic decides to ignore the facts about the same number of chances, which seems highly likely based on past arguments.

[Shadow87]

Hey heres an idea, if your gonna *****, ***** to your team of GCs who didnt come on to host the monthly like they should have.

Heres how you fix the problem, the more GCs to host, like there should be already, the less chances i get to PM you two and get in, or race to the location.

More GCs hosting = less chance i get of getting in, because ill be busy in another spar while they are hosting.

Ive never gotten that many chances before, only when you two were the only ones doing it. Make sense? This isnt my fault, this isnt players fault, this isnt the way the monthly is set up, its the GC fault for being lazy and not coming on to host it, they used to be able to? Next time, when more of them are on to host, you'll realize im right.

Stop *****ing about this already its so dumb.

[BlackSolider]

Makes sense. And from the man in question himself. Do we really need more evidence?

[MysticX2X]

Originally Posted by BlackSolider

As much as I don't like quoting myself, let me correct you as usual:

As much as I don't like quoting myself either, let me recorrect you as usual:
Oh wait, I'm too lazy to find what I said before, so I'll say it again:
Classic people know the loopholes to this monthly. They know when to hold their cursor, they know when to follow the GC. Foreigners aren't used to this and I'm defending this right.

All the teams are guaranteed a chance you say? Really? Last time I checked the official NCAA tournament has 65 slots. Every team? Perhaps you're referring to the conference tournaments which, to my knowledge, do have every team involved. But do recall that those tournaments have X amount of slots and thus fill them with X amount of teams. Doesn't quite fit what we're talking about.

Remind me when any of those teams lost, that they had to run to another slot first before anybody else.

If UNers came to the monthly more than once, they'd know how it works, just like classicians.

I'm not defending UNers solely. I'm defending people unfamiliar with the system and the people who got weeded out because one sparrer took all the chances.

Familiarity with the system is not something we can compensate. What we can compensate is explaining how our system works (8 location spars w/ first two sparring, and 8 summon spars w/ first two pmers sparring.) If they can't figure out how to try and gain an edge to be first, thats their problem. Besides, WHY THE **** ARE YOU CATERING THE FOREIGNERS?

We should try to make what is right for each and every player. Limiting the amount of chances is not unfair at all in my opinion especially when I'm being rational and saying 2 and maybe possibly potentially hypothetically 3.

It's called the Classic Monthly Spar Tournament for a reason. It's about finding the best sparrer on classic.

Oh really? The way you're ranting about, it sounded like the Classic Monthly race.

The people that have done it before will have an edge. It's called being a pro. The people who play on the server will have an edge. It's called home field advantage. If a classician has competed in our tournament before, why the hell should we penalize him for being a bit quicker? It's not his fault he knows whats going on. Don't try to penalize experience by making our server "foreigner friendly". If a classician is able to get into more spars than a UNer, thats not his ****ing fault. It's the fault of the UNer for not trying harder.

I don't even know where we got to defending how a newcomer feels. All I was trying to fight against was people having too many chances like Gotenks (sort of) and Tatsumi. Again you're forgetting the concepts of qualification

*yawn* Sometimes I wonder why I bother.

If you want in our tournament, you got to earn it. We can't just give a free pass to people from other servers just for a public relations bonus. Hell no. We go with what works. This system has worked for years and has never had any major problems until recently when some UN cry babies weren't fast enough on a foreign server. Thats not OUR problem, its theirs. They didn't get in because they were new here and only came for a one time visit. They didn't have the experience. They sure as hell didn't have the homefield advantage. Why are you trying to cater to these cry babies? Because you have a history on UN? Idk man. You're raising so much hell over this going to night and storm and ****. We've never had a problem before.

People come here to spar, not race around the damn overworld or hold their cursor on the pm screen. It's a monthly spar, not a race.

I'm not so sure about the system working for years. Classic's playercount keeps declining

We've never really had a chance with somebody losing 3 times and we never really had a chance where the defending champion didn't get to partake in the real tourney. Hell, we never really had most of the problems that occured right now.

Look dude. We host 8 summon spars. That means EVERYONE has EIGHT mother ****ing chances to get in our tournament REGARDLESS of what server they come from. If they're too ****ing slow to pm faster, especially in the later spars (less ppl pming,) thats their own ****ing fault. We've done it this way for years and we're not changing it because it WORKS. Simple as that. Everyone has the same ****ing eight chances and you can't ****ing deny that.

Read above. This is not a race, this is a monthly spar. I have no clue why I'm defending how fast people have to pm or what not. All I'm defending is to lower the chances someone gets in a qualification since qualifications don't work like that. People are given other chances because Classic doesn't have a supportable playercount to dawn someone out (Wow i said this before). Well, only when players aren't left out. Apparently a lot were this time, and apparently you're not taking this into fact.

You can rant rant all you like, but you will never take into account the true hard facts. This debate isn't whether or not someone can pm the faster, it's about why someone should get 5 chances when they ****ed up their first or 2nd, which should of been enough to deem you unqualified for the tourney.(No offense again tats lol)

Get skill or get lost, Gladius. This monthly isn't to take the best Classic sparrers who know every location/loophole, it's meant to take the best sparrers that are online.

Realize as well that there were more than 8 foreigners to Classic. Hell there were even more than 16. Your 8 chances defense is pretty weak. Summon spars are the most demanding and I can safely assume that our Classicians got in those more because they know how to hold their cursor on the send button where other server players don't because their tournies aren't so foolhardy like this.

EDIT: Damn I ranted and lol tats is right too.