Tachi

[Frankie]

can you be any less original when adding a new gang to Era? seriously.

oh, and let me guess. their gang weapon is somewhere along the lines of a katana or shuriken. (correct me if I'm wrong.)

[Crono]

In their defense it would technically be a "revival".

[Shadow5596321]

Originally Posted by Crono

In their defense it would technically be a "revival#55".

..

[The_Blue_Cracka]

Bratski Krug was of the coolest gang concepts.

What happened with that?

[LordSquirt]

Originally Posted by Frankie

can you be any less original when adding a new gang to Era? seriously.

oh, and let me guess. their gang weapon is somewhere along the lines of a katana or shuriken. (correct me if I'm wrong.)

They have a gun called the Souizen

[kia345]

Originally Posted by The_Blue_Cracka

Bratski Krug was of the coolest gang concepts.

What happened with that?

Wasn't BK an impossible combination of the mafia and communists?

[Shotoo2]

Originally Posted by kia345

Wasn't BK an impossible combination of the mafia and communists?

The original concept was based on the Russian Mob. No idea what Maverick did with it when he actually got the gang though.

[salesman]

The Hustlas was a pretty cool idea too

[fragman85]

Russian Mafia is feared more than Italians oO

[DazJenova]

Instead of making a whole new gang then watching it fail i decided to revive Tachi as it was allready on the server and it's acually turned out really well.

[Frankie]

Originally Posted by DazJenova

Instead of making a whole new gang then watching it fail i decided to revive Tachi.

reviving an old gang doesn't mean it's going to last. Tachi has been revived quite a few times in the past and not once has it lasted for more than a few months. same deal with Morano Family. I don't understand how you could possibly justify the revival of Tachi by saying, "a whole new gang would fail."

if it's not BB, BH, or LC, it will fail. you might as well be original and give someone a few weeks of glory with their own gang idea instead of reusing ideas of the past.

[DazJenova]

We'll see Frankie, after all you or Icarus made BK and it failed miserable so i don't really think you have a stand in this.

[Frankie]

every time someone wanted to revive a certain gang I was always the one going against it. I can't even say how many times I've argued with Jack and Vulcan about reviving MF.

I never made BK, nor did I ever support it's revival when I was an Admin. Jack was the manager and I couldn't go against his decision.

[Shotoo2]

Originally Posted by Frankie

every time someone wanted to revive a certain gang I was always the one going against it. I can't even say how many times I've argued with Jack and Vulcan about reviving MF.

I never made BK, nor did I ever support it's revival when I was an Admin. Jack was the manager and I couldn't go against his decision.

I agree on the gang revival thing. It's just a boring waste of time.

[Xelnaga]

I don't see why the gangs must be deleted regardless if they fail or not. Why can't the same procedures be taken and leadership be passed to someone more deserving, seems like less of a headache overall.

[Shotoo2]

Originally Posted by Xelnaga

I don't see why the gangs must be deleted regardless if they fail or not. Why can't the same procedures be taken and leadership be passed to someone more deserving, seems like less of a headache overall.

Because there's been this notion for a while that gang leaders can be allowed to have their gang to end once they quit as leader, especially if it's a new gang and the original leader/concept creator wants the gang deleted. As far as I'm concerned, once the gang is developed, no one but the administration has the rights to that content.

[CharlieM]

Originally Posted by Shotoo2

Because there's been this notion for a while that gang leaders can be allowed to have their gang to end once they quit as leader, especially if it's a new gang and the original leader/concept creator wants the gang deleted. As far as I'm concerned, once the gang is developed, no one but the administration has the rights to that content.

I think Daz has changed that, He's replaced gang leaders instead of letting them end gangs

[MontyPython]

Originally Posted by DazJenova

We'll see Frankie, after all you or Icarus made BK and it failed miserable so i don't really think you have a stand in this.

I love how insults start getting thrown out.

If we want to be really realistic, Daz, all the gangs are totally and utterly failing. There's so many times when you go online, and not a single person is on their gang tag. Why? Because there's absolutely no point.

Can you raid? Yeah. You can. Is it fun? I've never found it especially fun, but that's not the point. You need to give gangs a reason to exist. You need to make gang points actually DO something. Gang activities like raiding need a purpose beyond "We raid because we raid."

You cannot just keep introducing new gangs or reviving old gangs and expecting it to somehow fix the system and add player interest. It adds a very small spark of "new" to the server (omg new gun! ew @ the gfx but still new! omg new hat!), which quickly fades in a matter of a week or two, and then you've still got a terribly broken system.

I'm not blaming you for this, it's been happening for a long time. But the gang system itself is the problem, not bringing back old gangs or bringing in new gangs. I'd like to see all the old gangs destroyed, and introduce a system like Sale's or Geo's where everyone has a chance to start gangs, and where points/raiding/anything gang related actually has purpose aside from buffing up your useless k/d stats or allowing you to mass inane drivel such as "WE GOT UR BASE BB U ***S LOLOLOL".

[GarethOmni]

Gangs do need a point, but how are we going to accomplish this?

One Idea I've had was to give each "gang base" a territory.

Bare with me, this will take some explaining.

Alright, so we know how most crime groups have some way of making an income right?
The mafia extorts businesses, etc.

So what if we had certain gang bases tied to say, a weapons shop that was npc ran, and helped provide income and a "certain" unique but not overly useful item for sale.

Not only that this would give raids a reason, at certain times of the day other gangs would have the opportunity to gain raiding points on that base. At the end of the week or what have you, the gang that has the most raiding points or succeeds in obtaining enough points now gets ownership of that base and their old base goes to the losing gang.

Perhaps you could have a system where a gang would have to declare war on another in order to "activate" the raiding process. This would create the need for alliances, truces, naps, and other pacts that could be created by gangs. They could use their "positions" of economic power to negotiate alliances with other gangs or exploit their new territory in order to take a new base that might make something they want. (Such as a food item or maybe even just cheaper ammunition) I'm not exactly sure what items would belong to each territory, or even what kinds of shops would be used. Perhaps you could even create a market for raw materials and have a territory affect the marketing capability.

Need gun parts? Well guess what, Black Holst controls their territory so they make and sell those parts. Not only to BH members get a few bucks off the price, they get to put some of the proceeds to supplies, and arming members.

It's almost like KOTH, but gives the victorious gang more than just bragging rights.

I would just hope that if this idea got implemented, that each territory would have an equal advantage and most of the gang's success would depend on the quality of their members.

This would really give raiding and "declaring war" on other gangs a great meaning. I mean, back in the day it was always BB warring with Tachi or BH fighting LC. There were hours of smack talking in masses and they just had some kind of hate between each other. But that's gone, and now they don't see much of a reason in fighting each other unless they gain something from it.

So I say we give the gangs of Era a reason to do this.

[Frankie]

Originally Posted by MontyPython

I love how insults start getting thrown out.

If we want to be really realistic, Daz, all the gangs are totally and utterly failing. There's so many times when you go online, and not a single person is on their gang tag. Why? Because there's absolutely no point.

Can you raid? Yeah. You can. Is it fun? I've never found it especially fun, but that's not the point. You need to give gangs a reason to exist. You need to make gang points actually DO something. Gang activities like raiding need a purpose beyond "We raid because we raid."

You cannot just keep introducing new gangs or reviving old gangs and expecting it to somehow fix the system and add player interest. It adds a very small spark of "new" to the server (omg new gun! ew @ the gfx but still new! omg new hat!), which quickly fades in a matter of a week or two, and then you've still got a terribly broken system.

I'm not blaming you for this, it's been happening for a long time. But the gang system itself is the problem, not bringing back old gangs or bringing in new gangs. I'd like to see all the old gangs destroyed, and introduce a system like Sale's or Geo's where everyone has a chance to start gangs, and where points/raiding/anything gang related actually has purpose aside from buffing up your useless k/d stats or allowing you to mass inane drivel such as "WE GOT UR BASE BB U ***S LOLOLOL".

exactly!

new gangs are fun and cool for a few weeks and after that nobody cares about it anymore. people will quit their current gangs to join the newly uploaded gang just because everyone's raving over it, but in a matter of weeks all those members will branch off back to their old gangs, which is why new gangs usually fail.

and yes, raiding is useless. if someone raids your base, all you have to do is leave. sure the other gang can talk **** over mass messages, but nobody cares. bragging rights isn't enough for players these days. Gareth is on the right track, but I wouldn't exactly do it that way.

[salesman]

I've got a really neat gang idea in store...something that would make gangs fun again. It still needs to be discussed, but hopefully we can use it.

I also need to figure out my priorities before I get started on such a huge project. Trying to juggle too many things at once =S

[DazJenova]

I wanted to try out Geo's plan for Gangs Monty, i agree at the moment all gangs are ****e, not the acual players in it just that raiding has no purpose and is boring to some point. If there was a territory system introduced and npc shops to benefit your gang like gareth sugested, it would make a purpose for raiding and taking bases/territory.

[DazJenova]

Originally Posted by salesman

I've got a really neat gang idea in store...something that would make gangs fun again. It still needs to be discussed, but hopefully we can use it.

I also need to figure out my priorities before I get started on such a huge project. Trying to juggle too many things at once =S

Sales discuss with me, i want to hear this.

[Thanatoses]

Originally Posted by Xelnaga

I don't see why the gangs must be deleted regardless if they fail or not. Why can't the same procedures be taken and leadership be passed to someone more deserving, seems like less of a headache overall.

The revival of Tachi or a gang of "classic stand" was my idea / proposal to Daz. That is the general idea behind it and has worked very well, if he had created a new gang idea and then tried to apply this concept to it, it'd have ended like all the others. Regardless of it being the right of the Administration to control the content, it'd have caused problems, as it alway has. Instead, the revival of a classic gang has a MUCH higher potential to be accepted and blended into the same class as "The Carteles, Bandits and Black Holst". Which justifies the return of Tachi, Morano is too recent, BK is not "classic" and so on and so forth. Tachi was the gang with the highest probability to succeed and obtain "permanency". Rather than continue the worthless and endless cycle.

Territories will fail, gangs have been this way forever. Still is entertaining as long as we don't keep running into the same inactive gang admins. Gangs don't need a vast reform, the Administration does.

Frankie, when you originally played Era. What purpose did raiding have then as opposed to now? . Think about it. What made you love it so much then as opposed to now?

[Aldaris]

For me, I think each aspect of the 'gang world' should be enhanced / reinvented. As I've discussed before (and it has been suggested), I believe that each gang should receive a more notable territory; one that takes a decent walk (or swim) to venture off to.

Another complaint that I have is the way that the gang guns are distributed. I think each gang should have a system that closely resembles the way gang hats work; your rank determines your gun. You shouldn't be penalized for not being amongst the "top 5 ranked" in each gang.

[Frankie]

Originally Posted by Thanatoses

The revival of Tachi or a gang of "classic stand" was my idea / proposal to Daz. That is the general idea behind it and has worked very well, if he had created a new gang idea and then tried to apply this concept to it, it'd have ended like all the others. Regardless of it being the right of the Administration to control the content, it'd have caused problems, as it alway has. Instead, the revival of a classic gang has a MUCH higher potential to be accepted and blended into the same class as "The Carteles, Bandits and Black Holst". Which justifies the return of Tachi, Morano is too recent, BK is not "classic" and so on and so forth. Tachi was the gang with the highest probability to succeed and obtain "permanency". Rather than continue the worthless and endless cycle.

Territories will fail, gangs have been this way forever. Still is entertaining as long as we don't keep running into the same inactive gang admins. Gangs don't need a vast reform, the Administration does.

Frankie, when you originally played Era. What purpose did raiding have then as opposed to now? . Think about it. What made you love it so much then as opposed to now?

yeah, I understand that raiding has no benefits back then except for bragging rights, just like it is now, but the players these days are a lot different and bragging rights isn't enough for them.

[Thanatoses]

Personally, I'm a fan of change, based on necessity or convenience, cross-examined by the level of risk.
Its far too risky to introduce a new concept to gangs, chance of rejection, time-consumpto, necessity all point toward a negative direction.
If this concept worked once, it can work again. Players have changed according to their environment, PKing is no longer as competitive as it used to be. Few players even strive to better themselves, we need to figure out ways to increase competition rather wasting countless hours in inventing new NPCs to do a working-mind's job.
Start Ranking Players in PK, Spars, Gangs and every aspect of PK. Start ranking gangs, businesses and etc. I guarantee you, every player-interactive aspect of Era will be improved without the creation of a large system. Notoriety is subconsciously on EVERY player's mind. And everyone is good at something, therefore I think a way to rank players in their activities (not just gangs or pk), is the most:
Necessary
Convenient
Low-Risk
Measure that can be taken.

[Frankie]

so what's the deal with tachi turning into some sort of chinese triad or whatever the hell they're trying to go for? from my asian sources, they're using a mix between chinese ranks and japanese names and vice versa. it's kinda funny.

[CharlieM]

I don't see the comedic value, They are using Japanese ranks now, and only a few use actual translations for names the rest are regular nicks or made up asian sounding names. It was just a rank change and motive made all the gfx being used for the bodies and hats. They switched to a more fitting theme for era.

[Frankie]

it's funny because they have no idea what they're doing trying to replicate some japanese mafia.

[CharlieM]

Originally Posted by Frankie

it's funny because they have no idea what they're doing trying to replicate some japanese mafia.

Explain..I'm confused by your post (Its not hard!) it sounds like your saying they don't know that they are trying to replicate a Japanese Mafia (or Yakuza couldn't find the word earlier.) From what I heard they pulled all the ranks from a page about the Yakuza.

[Frankie]

Originally Posted by CharlieM

Explain..I'm confused by your post (Its not hard!) it sounds like your saying they don't know that they are trying to replicate a Japanese Mafia (or Yakuza couldn't find the word earlier.) From what I heard they pulled all the ranks from a page about the Yakuza.

yeah, but I was told that a lot of them have chinese names yet are trying to fit into a japanese mafia. I thought it was funny.

[CharlieM]

Originally Posted by Frankie

yeah, but I was told that a lot of them have chinese names yet are trying to fit into a japanese mafia. I thought it was funny.

I think wil was the only one usig a Chinese name recently but it would t surprise me if new people into the gang use Chinese names