2009 Playerworld Rules Finalized

[Bell]

Its been quite a long time since the Playerworld Rules have been updated to conform with some of the changes regarding Graal. Its been an overly long process and I would like to apologize for that but you can now find the updated version here.

Playerworld Rules

We are also working on a revision of Hosted/Classic inspection qualifications but those were less out of date overall.

I'd like to thank everyone involved in this process including Sparks who's original we based it from. Houdini, who started the remake process. Vulcan, TSA and Tigairius for their input and Polo (Masterstorm) who rewrote it to give it a more professional and less wordy feel.

-Bell (Playerworld Administrator)

[cbk1994]

Servers should not steal content or ideas from other servers.

This seems a bit crazy. I agree with content, but ideas is too much. There's no reason that one server should think something up, then be able to say "you can't use this because it was my idea". Imagine if whatever the first gun server was said "no one else can use this idea". No more Era, Zone, etc.

All staff with RC access override players options to ignore mass messages. These staff should restrict their massing only to important server information.

Can't you please bug Stefan to simply fix this so staff only override the option on tag? It wouldn't require a client update as far as I know.

[Bell]

This refers to storylines generally. Obviously there will be duplication of details but our goal is to get people to think of new and interesting ideas rather than just keep reshuffling the old.

[CharlieM]

# Scripts should not interfere with any built in part of Graal, such as preventing the auto-disconnect for idling from working.

But if you change server ops it doesn't auto disconnect idlers I thought.

# Scripts should only identify players uniquely via their account name, nickname or community name. Any other attempt to track a player such as through their IP address, PCID or by planting corrupt files in their system could constitute a criminal offence.

So do you mean like the system we had on atrius to help stop people from ban evasion and using cheat engine on multiple accounts?

Also staff can still use IP/PCID for other players and things right?

[Tigairius]

Originally Posted by CharlieM

But if you change server ops it doesn't auto disconnect idlers I thought.

That's fine, it was just an example.

Originally Posted by CharlieM

So do you mean like the system we had on atrius to help stop people from ban evasion and using cheat engine on multiple accounts?

It depends how you're doing it. If you are storing the player's IP and/or PCID to kick them off, then yes, it's illegal.

Originally Posted by CharlieM

Also staff can still use IP/PCID for other players and things right?

Servers are strictly forbidden from using any sort of method to store or retrieve the player's IP address or PCID with script.

[Bell]

Originally Posted by CharlieM

But if you change server ops it doesn't auto disconnect idlers I thought.

There is now this option in server ops, yes. But on Classic and Hosted playerworlds we would prefer you not disable disconnection. It especially looks bad when staff idle when not available as the players complain that staff ignore them when they have a problem. They don't realize the staff member isn't even there.

Originally Posted by CharlieM

So do you mean like the system we had on atrius to help stop people from ban evasion and using cheat engine on multiple accounts?

Correct, Stefan does not want any script that collects IP information. We realize that its far easier to handle the evasion problem with it but its just not allowed. Zodiac had to remove something similar recently as its often abused by people that have no business seeing the information.

[CharlieM]

Originally Posted by Tigairius

It depends how you're doing it. If you are storing the player's IP and/or PCID to kick them off, then yes, it's illegal.


Servers are strictly forbidden from using any sort of method to store or retrieve the player's IP address or PCID with script.

The script Atrius used scanned an IP when someone logged in, and if it matched another account currently on it would say sometime like "Player Blank1 is on IP #"
and right after "Player Blank2 is on IP#" the # being the same. Basically to prevent multi accounters and it also had something about if one account on the IP was banned it would spam RC saying so.

So using /open "account" and /openaccess "Account" to see someones IP or PCID would be okay still?

[Clockwork]

Originally Posted by CharlieM

So using /open "account" and /openaccess "Account" to see someones IP or PCID would be okay still?

No, using a feature given to you is not okay. You're never to use those commands ever again. /sarcasm

Originally Posted by Bell

This refers to storylines generally. Obviously there will be duplication of details but our goal is to get people to think of new and interesting ideas rather than just keep reshuffling the old.

Modern servers have storyline? Zodiac has storyline? GK, Delteria, and maybe Zone are the only ones that come to mind for me that have a storyline.

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by Bell

This refers to storylines generally. Obviously there will be duplication of details but our goal is to get people to think of new and interesting ideas rather than just keep reshuffling the old.

I think this part should be probably changed to stealing content or ideas directly from other servers, rather than just from other servers, else you're going to have a lot of instances where people apply that rule to concepts which they borrowed first. Maybe it should be mentioned that it is for the purpose of originality and progression, though giving reasoning behind the rules has only been mentioned on a few.

Originally Posted by Tigairius

Servers are strictly forbidden from using any sort of method to store or retrieve the player's IP address or PCID with script.

Perhaps it should state this then. The part where this has been addressed suggests that the user would be using the IP externally rather than using it through scripts.

[cbk1994]

Originally Posted by Bell

Correct, Stefan does not want any script that collects IP information. We realize that its far easier to handle the evasion problem with it but its just not allowed. Zodiac had to remove something similar recently as its often abused by people that have no business seeing the information.

People need to get over the fact that IP addresses are not private. Staff can already find a players IP by opening their attributes. Virtually every website logs the IP address, at least in part, of visitors. Even Google stores your IP address for several months.

How can you possibly use knowing someone's IP address to your advantage? You can already look up someone's IP by sending them a PM with a <img> tag displaying an image on your web host, then easily check your site logs to find their IP.

If someone really wanted to do "damage", nothing is stopping them from using requesturl() clientside on a certain website made for exactly this, which I of course can't name.

Are exceptions going to be made for special servers? The testbed server uses (or used) a script to get the players IP to help them easily sign up. Fairly certain Era also has something similar which a staff member has used to create custom bans for people that constantly change their PCID/IP (though they are likely using a different method, which also seems to be outlawed by your restrictions). Is it really worth wasting a staff member's time constantly banning the same person when they get on new IPs, PCIDs, and accounts? What about when they get on and do some serious damage, harming the economy of the entire server?

The benefit of using IPs in scripts far outweighs any harm that could come from them.

[DustyPorViva]

The content rule: "must be appropriate for any ages" is very, very vague.

[Pimmeh]

Originally Posted by Clockwork;1&lt

Modern servers have storyline? Zodiac has storyline? GK, Delteria, and ma{be Zone are the only ones that come to mind for me that have a storyline.

Val? Haha. And GK and Delt aren't modern?

[Tigairius]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

The content rule: "must be appropriate for any ages" is very, very vague.

Not really. You know whatgs appropriate for a 8 year old and what isn't. If it's not appropriate for an 8 year old, then don't put it up. That's a good rule to go by, and before I get trolled, I know there aren't any 8 year olds on Graal and we're all "over 13."

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by Tigairius

Not really. You know what's appropriate for a 8 year old and what isn't. If it's not appropriate for an 8 year old, then don't put it up. That's a good rule to go by, and before I get trolled, I know there aren't any 8 year olds on Graal and we're all "over 13."

It's a subjective thing, though, especially when you say "all ages". I think a 13 year-old(which is what you agree to when you sign up) can handle hearing the word "ass" while a 5 year-old probably won't.

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

It's a subjective thing, though, especially when you say "all ages". I think a 13 year-old(which is what you agree to when you sign up) can handle hearing the word "ass" while a 5 year-old probably won't.

What ESBR rating would you give Graal? http://www.esrb.org/ratings/ratings_guide.jsp

[Clockwork]

Originally Posted by Rufus

What ESBR rating would you give Graal? http://www.esrb.org/ratings/ratings_guide.jsp

eC.

Excuse me while I go start an "Aeko's Server For Kids Who Can't Read Good And Wanna Learn To Do Other Stuff Good Too.".

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Me, personally... I'd give it a 'T'. ESRB can not and will not try to rate online interaction, and only focus on content that is put in by the developers... I can't recall much other than some suggestive themes, maybe some cursing. Nothing too terrible, and it's all what I would consider 'animated/cartoony violence'.

I agree with you. Games which are rated "teen" usually require parental consent before purchase, and it is the same for Graal. Graal itself isn't rated by ESRB standards, but that doesn't mean that a small summary similar to what ESRB gives can't be provided in the rules to remove any vagueness about what is acceptable. There are lots of useful "ESRB Content Descriptors" on that site and a lot of them apply to the content which is used on Graal servers and content which would be deemed appropriate.

[xXziroXx]

Any server-centric content, such as levels or scripts are to be used only on the server originally submitted to.

What's up with that one? It more or less makes the Code Library forbidden.

Any player-centric content, such as head, shield and sword graphics, may be uploaded to multiple servers, but only with the express permission of the original artist.

Do you know the creator of 85% of all heads/shields/swords? I think not. Should probably be adjusted to something like the server being required to remove such files if the original creator should complain.

All RC access should be restricted by IP or PCID to prevent unauthorised login.

Why is this even a rule? It's technically impossible to leave a blank IP when setting rights, and have been for 4+ years.

All staff with RC access override players options to ignore mass messages. These staff should restrict their massing only to important server information.

Really, this is something Stefan easily can fix, and he should.

[Angelu]

Originally Posted by Bell

This refers to storylines generally. Obviously there will be duplication of details but our goal is to get people to think of new and interesting ideas rather than just keep reshuffling the old.

Iam sure she means the Setting not the Storyline (There is no Server with one at all)
Graal doesnt need 10 Modern Shooter or 10 Medieval/Fantasy Grinder
Its not like People start playing Graal because there is a second Era
it will only splitt the 100 Player on 2 Servers and both become more uninteresting

[CharlieM]

Originally Posted by Clockwork

Excuse me while I go start an "Aeko's Server For Kids Who Can't Read Good And Wanna Learn To Do Other Stuff Good Too.".

Lets do it.

[Liberated]

Originally Posted by Rufus

What ESBR rating would you give Graal? http://www.esrb.org/ratings/ratings_guide.jsp

for most of the content i'd give it a T i guess.
But the skill games, you play it with gelats which is real money, so basically thats not a virtual simulation of gambling anymore, its real gambling.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by Liberated

for most of the content i'd give it a T i guess.
But the skill games, you play it with gelats which is real money, so basically thats not a virtual simulation of gambling anymore, its real gambling.

Gelats are not real money... you can't convert them back into money so most you can do is use it to buy Graal stuff. No worse than gambling in Mario Party.

[Liberated]

it does hold more value then a normal virtual simulation gambling game,
but i guess you're right.

[Bell]

Servers should not steal content or ideas from other servers.

I think this part should be probably changed to stealing content or ideas directly from other servers, rather than just from other servers, else you're going to have a lot of instances where people apply that rule to concepts which they borrowed first. Maybe it should be mentioned that it is for the purpose of originality and progression, though giving reasoning behind the rules has only been mentioned on a few.

I would prefer to not make long explanations for each and every point. People will just not bother to read through it all if you start going that far. I believe that using the word directly will make no difference in how they view the rule. Borrowing without permission is the same thing as stealing. While its true that often UC servers often 'borrow' things to learn how to do it. Once they are on Hosted or Classic tab they should no longer have that content on their servers.

Servers are strictly forbidden from using any sort of method to store or retrieve the player's IP address or PCID with script.

I'll add it although it states that already but with the inclusion of any other method used or possibly used in the future. In response to all those who still complain about it. This is a rule set by Stefan, not negotiable through the PWA.

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

The content rule: "must be appropriate for any ages" is very, very vague.

Yes it is, and intentionally. This is designed for the present as well as the future. For example, if at some point they were to allow servers for very young players then it would need to be appropriate for that age group. Currently its more of the young teen to mature group so must fit the youngest group.

Originally Posted by Rufus

* Managers are responsible for ensuring that their server follows the 'Rules for Classic and Hosted Servers', the 'GraalOnline User Agreement', and the 'GraalOnline Acceptable Use Policy'.
* All staff should be aware of, and abide by, the 'Rules for Classic and Hosted Servers', the 'GraalOnline User Agreement', and the 'GraalOnline Acceptable Use Policy'.

When you're stating things like this, it would probably be more helpful if these documents are hyperlinked on each title. I know that a lot of people have struggled to find where these pages are located on the website in the past.

Those links were actually supposed to be there but somehow I managed to remove them during extensive editing. They'll be replaced as well as Sparks rules being archived/removed. I personally don't have access so its just taking some time for the edits to get done.

Originally Posted by Rufus

Additionally I think that with the amount of newer players being interested in purchasing servers, it would probably also help if the jargon that is being used such as RC, IP, PCID, are linked to the Wiki so there are clear definitions set. This one might be a little excessive however.

These are the Playerworld Rules and not really a document designed to teach new players the language. They've usually already purchased a playerworld before even bothering to look at these. I do have plans of making a document that will include the links to all these places that provide the information for them though. Its just a matter of prioritizing all that needs to be done and it hadn't been done yet.

Any server-centric content, such as levels or scripts are to be used only on the server originally submitted to.

What's up with that one? It more or less makes the Code Library forbidden

.

Code library content is content shared and given with permission so does not apply.

Any player-centric content, such as head, shield and sword graphics, may be uploaded to multiple servers, but only with the express permission of the original artist.

Do you know the creator of 85% of all heads/shields/swords? I think not. Should probably be adjusted to something like the server being required to remove such files if the original creator should complain.

Agreed that this is a common problem and not one easy to figure out. We can't really add that though cause in some cases the creator does give permission then decides to complain later when they get mad at the server. Each case has to be checked into individually regardless.

All RC access should be restricted by IP or PCID to prevent unauthorised login.

Why is this even a rule? It's technically impossible to leave a blank IP when setting rights, and have been for 4+ years.

We realize this but the moment its removed someone is going to figure a way to access rc without it and claim its legal.

All staff with RC access override players options to ignore mass messages. These staff should restrict their massing only to important server information.
Really, this is something Stefan easily can fix, and he should.

Again, this is something that the PWA cannot change nor control so we address it how we can.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by Bell

Yes it is, and intentionally. This is designed for the present as well as the future. For example, if at some point they were to allow servers for very young players then it would need to be appropriate for that age group. Currently its more of the young teen to mature group so must fit the youngest group.

Rules shouldn't really be tailored for 'what-if' scenarios. If the age group of Graal is lowered in the future, then servers can change accordingly. Why make them follow a rule that makes their server tailored to 5 year-olds if Graal may, and probably never will be, for 5 year-olds? What makes this most problematic is the fact that nothing is really elaborated. What about minor cursing? Suggestive animations? Farts? It gives developers of servers absolutely no clue about what they're actually allowed to do, until they're probably already done making it and someone pops in and says they have to remove it.

[Bell]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Rules shouldn't really be tailored for 'what-if' scenarios. If the age group of Graal is lowered in the future, then servers can change accordingly. Why make them follow a rule that makes their server tailored to 5 year-olds if Graal may, and probably never will be, for 5 year-olds? What makes this most problematic is the fact that nothing is really elaborated. What about minor cursing? Suggestive animations? Farts? It gives developers of servers absolutely no clue about what they're actually allowed to do, until they're probably already done making it and someone pops in and says they have to remove it.

Do you have any suggestions as to how it could be worded more appropriately?

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by Bell

Do you have any suggestions as to how it could be worded more appropriately?

Just drop the 'all ages' thing and be a lot more specific on what is and isn't allowed. At least say "minor cursing is fine, excessive and vulgar cursing is not allowed. Absolutely no nudity. Blood is fine", yada yada. Developers just need to have something to work off of instead of always having to guess if what they're doing is actually allowed.

Gotta thank you for actually taking the time to respond and actually listening. Rare trait in Graal administration.

[Bell]

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

Just drop the 'all ages' thing and be a lot more specific on what is and isn't allowed. At least say "minor cursing is fine, excessive and vulgar cursing is not allowed. Absolutely no nudity. Blood is fine", yada yada. Developers just need to have something to work off of instead of always having to guess if what they're doing is actually allowed.

Gotta thank you for actually taking the time to respond and actually listening. Rare trait in Graal administration.

I'll figure out a way to reword it but it can't be so specific that it ends up picked apart by the lawyer wannabe's. So much of this is judgmental since what is vulgar for one person isn't for another. Hence the age appropriate thing. I'll see what I can do.

[Bell]

How about this Dusty, I can't really go super specific or people will just try to bypass it.

* No content of a graphic or adult nature should be used on a server. All content should be age appropriate and not offensive in nature regardless of background.

[LoneAngelIbesu]

Originally Posted by Bell

* No content of a graphic or adult nature should be used on a server. All content should be age appropriate and not offensive in nature regardless of background.

Considering "age appropriate", would it be possible to make a server that requires you to be over a certain age, much like websites do for kids under 13, per COPPA?

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu

Considering "age appropriate", would it be possible to make a server that requires you to be over a certain age, much like websites do for kids under 13, per COPPA?

That is just ridiculous.

[LoneAngelIbesu]

Originally Posted by Rufus

That is just ridiculous.

Why is it ridiculous?

[Rufus]

Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu

Why is it ridiculous?

When has anyone in the history of the internet ever really pressed "No sorry, I'm not of age!" when the option appears? Why would a game like Graal have a server that required something like that anyway? It's not that kind of game in general.

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by Rufus

When has anyone in the history of the internet ever really pressed "No sorry, I'm not of age!" when the option appears?

If most governments consider it legal enough, I don't see why Graal would have some sort of higher standard. There is no way to tell if someone is actually telling the truth of their age, but that's no reason to stop anything. Just like with signing up on Graal... In the end, if their parents complain we can say, "Sorry, your kid lied and said he was of the required age. You should monitor your kid on the internet better." Just about how all 'mature' games/sites/concepts are handled on the internet.

[LoneAngelIbesu]

Originally Posted by Rufus

When has anyone in the history of the internet ever really pressed "No sorry, I'm not of age!" when the option appears? Why would a game like Graal have a server that required something like that anyway? It's not that kind of game in general.

The point of the age identifiers is to prevent a company from being held liable for inappropriate content being seen by children. It's saying "if you find this material offensive or inappropriate, and your under XX years old, then you cannot complain or hold Graal accountable, because you were never supposed to enter the server in the first place".

Attempting to make servers G-rated limits the marketing appeal of the game. Even still, servers like Valikorlia are hardly G-rated, given the content of masses and the discussions that happen. Not to mention the blood-and-guts gore of some graphics and storylines.

I'm not suggesting that somebody make GraalOnline-Second Life. But, a server geared towards the 16+ age group, meaning somewhat foul language and suggestive content, isn't a terrible idea.

[Angelu]

How much more Mature Graal can become?
We have Blood and Bones on Gk
We have a Shooter with Era
We even have kids doing "CS" <-- dont say more about that word

Iam sure we are all fine without naked NPCs or racial signs
Its not really hard to ask a PWA if you have something special in mind

[DustyPorViva]

Originally Posted by Angelu

How much more Mature Graal can become?
We have Blood and Bones on Gk
We have a Shooter with Era
We even have kids doing "CS" <-- dont say more about that word

Iam sure we are all fine without naked NPCs or racial signs
Its not really hard to ask a PWA if you have something special in mind

Most of the 'mature' themes on Graal are what you'd consider 'cartoony'.

If a server was made from the ground up with completely custom graphics and animation, there is a possibility it could rank up with the Mature games on consoles in terms of blood and gore. If done right, of course. If I ever finished my zombie server the way I intended, it probably wouldn't have been accepted by the PWA.

[LoneAngelIbesu]

Originally Posted by Angelu

How much more Mature Graal can become?
We have Blood and Bones on Gk
We have a Shooter with Era
We even have kids doing "CS" <-- dont say more about that word

Iam sure we are all fine without naked NPCs or racial signs
Its not really hard to ask a PWA if you have something special in mind

Take the Sims 2, for example. There's an action that two Sims can do, and it's called "WooHoo". It's suggestive of certain... adult actions, but it's not explicitly referred to as those... things. The result is either the Sims falling in love, or falling in love and getting pregnant. Because of suggestive content like that, the Sims 2 is rated Teen:

Titles rated T (Teen) have content that may be suitable for ages 13 and older. Titles in this category may contain violence, suggestive themes, crude humor, minimal blood, simulated gambling, and/or infrequent use of strong language.

Keep in mind that this is just an example, and not something I actually want to do.

[Bell]

Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu

Considering "age appropriate", would it be possible to make a server that requires you to be over a certain age, much like websites do for kids under 13, per COPPA?

Its not the role of the PWA to determine whether GraalOnline will allow a mature themed server. Graal decided long ago they were going to have the types of servers you see now. Its just up to the PWA to decide whether people are staying within the confines of those restrictions. We are seriously more concerned about content that a parent is going to look at over their kids shoulder and say "WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU PLAYING!*

Graalians in general may not realize this but we do on occasion get the parent of a staff member or player that gets pretty upset over what their child is doing and won't allow them to play any longer because of it. When they reread the Terms of Service they point out the fact they never expected this when they gave the approval for their first born to play.

[Angelu]

I think your Zombie Server is fine if you dont shoot off heads or cut off body parts
but at all its 2d and pixelart so this has nothing to do with realism
(ive not seen a 2d horror splatter yet so you can proof me wrong here)

Nobody needs "Woohoo" XD in a MMO and i think thats the only thing that shouldnt be allowed in Graphical ways + the racial signs but thats clear iam sure
(i dont care what people do over PM)