Community Scripting Project

excaliber7388 · #1 07-25-2008, 09:19 PM

Remember when I was working on the DR Computer? It was able to send in game email, chat, had some web browser functions, games, and more? Well, I was thinking, what if we made something like that?
It wouldn't need graphics, or to be called a computer though. Just a bunch of utilities you could get to from Graal, via a keyboard shortcut.

Press some button, and up pops this assistant. No need to open another program. It could have minigames, chat, a calculator, text editor, maybe even integrate scripting and staff tools into it. Instead of pressing F7 for the playerlist, F6 for the RC, F5 for the level, and F4 for the editor, why not have all those be part of this assistant, and accessible from one button? People would be able to assign keyboard shortcuts for the functions they use the most.

We'd all design a few functions, and one main one. It would be integrated into the graal client eventually (if we do it well enough).
What do you think? Want to start claiming functions and classes to make?

LoneAngelIbesu · #2 07-25-2008, 09:20 PM

Sounds interesting.

I'd claim something if I knew what you're looking to include.

excaliber7388 · #3 07-25-2008, 09:42 PM

Calculators, player image changers (setbody, save slots, etc).
Basically, all the utilities you find on servers, in one place. As well as some utilities you'd find on a computer, like a notepad, calculator, etc.

LoneAngelIbesu · #4 07-25-2008, 09:45 PM

Valikorlia has a notepad. It could be touched up to allow users more than one file... with Inverness' permission, of course.

I have a music playlist that I've been wanting to completely redo.

Inverness · #5 07-25-2008, 11:51 PM

Hmm, interesting.

Loriel · #6 07-26-2008, 12:28 AM

If anything the community should focus on something that is actually useful to most playerworlds or people wanting to create playerworlds, or on just documentation/learning material.

LoneAngelIbesu · #7 07-26-2008, 12:37 AM

We could document the entire project and release the scripts as open-source.

Loriel · #8 07-26-2008, 12:39 AM

How does that help someone who wants to make a playerworld? Playerworlds need quests and ****, not an ad hoc informally-specified bug-ridden slow implementation of half of a desktop environment.

Rufus · #9 07-26-2008, 12:41 AM

I agree with Loriel, try replicating the defaults that Stefan wont release so playerworlds have that rather than the generally untouchable, or some decent baddies.

LoneAngelIbesu · #10 07-26-2008, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loriel

How does that help someone who wants to make a playerworld? Playerworlds need quests and ****, not an ad hoc informally-specified bug-ridden slow implementation of half of a desktop environment.

That's rather insulting. Nobody is going to script an open-source server, either. That's just deterrent to your entire point.

A project like this can show new scripters how to use certain functions, tricks, and the like.

xXziroXx · #11 07-26-2008, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu

Nobody is going to script an open-source server, either..

I wanted to do that with Mythic, I even had a thread with all scripts in it. But, I killed that idea when graal.net crashed and took them all with it. I might see myself doing it again in the future, undecided at this point.

Loriel · #12 07-26-2008, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu

That's rather insulting. Nobody is going to script an open-source server, either. That's just deterrent to your entire point.

A project like this can show new scripters how to use certain functions, tricks, and the like.

I am not sure what you are going on about, but I am tempted all the time to demand in the Future Improvements forum that everybody can view every server's scripts and save their levels. There is really no downside.

Inverness · #13 07-26-2008, 01:08 AM

I want a baddy script so I don't have to try to make it myself.

LoneAngelIbesu · #14 07-26-2008, 01:09 AM

^ The exact reason why entire servers shouldn't be made open-source.

TheStan · #15 07-26-2008, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inverness

I want a baddy script so I don't have to try to make it myself.

Agreed.

Loriel · #16 07-26-2008, 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu

^ The exact reason why entire servers shouldn't be made open-source.

What post is that responding to?

LoneAngelIbesu · #17 07-26-2008, 01:36 AM

The one above it. Inverness'.

Loriel · #18 07-26-2008, 01:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu

The one above it. Inverness'.

In that case, it is a pretty bad reason.

cbk1994 · #19 07-26-2008, 02:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loriel

I am not sure what you are going on about, but I am tempted all the time to demand in the Future Improvements forum that everybody can view every server's scripts and save their levels. There is really no downside.

There is a downside, and that is that some people don't want their scripts on other servers. It won't happen, anyway.

LoneAngelIbesu · #20 07-26-2008, 02:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loriel

In that case, it is a pretty bad reason.

Why do you think that? If we work together to script something and it's released for Graal as a whole, posting the code only helps people learn. If we script a server and release the code, we're only providing copy/paste systems.

Umat · #21 07-26-2008, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loriel

How does that help someone who wants to make a playerworld? Playerworlds need quests and ****, not an ad hoc informally-specified bug-ridden slow implementation of half of a desktop environment.

Agreed. Seems stupid. :S

Rufus · #22 07-26-2008, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbk1994

There is a downside, and that is that some people don't want their scripts on other servers. It won't happen, anyway.

Such an ignorant thought. You'd think developers on Graal had kind of gotten over that kind of thing and started aiming for something bigger, like improving the quality and amount of decent servers around. This certainly isn't helping anything. The actual downside would be people using these public scripts to apply for staff jobs, but that could happen even now with the Code Gallery and it hasn't been an issue so far.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu

Why do you think that? If we work together to script something and it's released for Graal as a whole, posting the code only helps people learn. If we script a server and release the code, we're only providing copy/paste systems.

The former takes time, while the latter saves time in most cases. What is the point in 50-odd playerworlds all scripting the same generic systems (most of the time) when they could be focusing on their server-specific scripting.

Loriel · #23 07-26-2008, 02:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbk1994

There is a downside, and that is that some people don't want their scripts on other servers. It won't happen, anyway.

Screw those people. They will get over it.

Loriel · #24 07-26-2008, 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rufus

The former takes time, while the latter saves time in most cases. What is the point in 50-odd playerworlds all scripting the same generic systems (most of the time) when they could be focusing on their server-specific scripting.

I agree with what you said, and in addition, learning from openly available scripts that are actually useful for a playerworld is going to be worth more than learning from random gimmick scripts.

LoneAngelIbesu · #25 07-26-2008, 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rufus

The former takes time, while the latter saves time in most cases. What is the point in 50-odd playerworlds all scripting the same generic systems (most of the time) when they could be focusing on their server-specific scripting.

That's just completely opposite of the entire purpose of providing scripts to help people learn. People already copy and paste examples, and you're saying that they should be able to have a copy and paste server? You know as well as any other that if you provide a newbie scripter with completed code, they aren't going to bother to learn what the code does.

A project like this would (a) provide examples of coding techniques and (b) provide a useful, extra feature to the Graal client. What's so bad about that? If you think providing baddy scripts is useful, then go ahead and do it. Why say that something like this shouldn't happen just because it doesn't provide any core server systems?

cbk1994 · #26 07-26-2008, 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loriel

Screw those people. They will get over it.

When I script something for a server, I don't want it to be released publicly. If I did, I would post it in the Code Gallery.

Loriel · #27 07-26-2008, 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu

That's just completely opposite of the entire purpose of providing scripts to help people learn. People already copy and paste examples, and you're saying that they should be able to have a copy and paste server? You know as well as any other that if you provide a newbie scripter with completed code, they aren't going to bother to learn what the code does.

Who is being hurt by people copy&pasting code? Being able to start up a server on the fundament of well-tested scripts is a good thing.

Quote:

A project like this would (a) provide examples of coding techniques and (b) provide a useful, extra feature to the Graal client. What's so bad about that? If you think providing baddy scripts is useful, then go ahead and do it. Why say that something like this shouldn't happen just because it doesn't provide any core server systems?

I am somewhat doubtful about "(b)". I am not sure what kind of Graal client you are running, but my one is limited to a single window and sluggish ugly pseudowindows and unable to communicate with any of my other applications or store data in my home directory.

I am not saying you do not get to run your pet project, I am just saying your time would be better spent elsewhere.

Rufus · #28 07-26-2008, 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu

That's just completely opposite of the entire purpose of providing scripts to help people learn.

Apologies, I didn't know this "community scripting project" was to help people learn.

Loriel · #29 07-26-2008, 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbk1994

When I script something for a server, I don't want it to be released publicly. If I did, I would post it in the Code Gallery.

Congratulations on being a selfish ****. Graal is short enough on good scripters that they being reclusive and wishing each other to fail is not going to make anyone happy.

LoneAngelIbesu · #30 07-26-2008, 02:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rufus

Apologies, I didn't know this "community scripting project" was to help people learn.

It wasn't until I suggested it...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loriel

If anything the community should focus on something that is actually useful to most playerworlds or people wanting to create playerworlds, or on just documentation/learning material.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu

We could document the entire project and release the scripts as open-source.

cbk1994 · #31 07-26-2008, 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loriel

Congratulations on being a selfish ****. Graal is short enough on good scripters that they being reclusive and wishing each other to fail is not going to make anyone happy.

The problem is there are too many servers, not too few scripters, in my opinion.

If someone wants to create their own playerworld instead of helping someone else, that's fine. That doesn't mean we should make their server for them.

Loriel · #32 07-26-2008, 02:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbk1994

The problem is there are too many servers, not too few scripters, in my opinion.

If someone wants to create their own playerworld instead of helping someone else, that's fine. That doesn't mean we should make their server for them.

Yes, it does mean that the scripters "should" write the scripts that will help out the maximum number of people.

xXziroXx · #33 07-26-2008, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loriel

unable to communicate with any of my other applications

I might be gravely mistaken, but isn't (wasn't?) it possible? I remember someone making an external... something. My memory fails horribly at times...

Loriel · #34 07-26-2008, 02:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xXziroXx

I might be gravely mistaken, but isn't (wasn't?) it possible? I remember someone making an external... something. My memory fails horribly at times...

Well, it is somewhat possible, but you are not going to be able to send dbus messages or anything without some major hacking.

Switch · #35 07-26-2008, 02:41 AM

How about you all just make your own server together (NOT SEPARATE, TOGETHER!)
And with a good idea it could actually go somewhere >.>

LoneAngelIbesu · #36 07-26-2008, 02:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Switch

How about you all just make your own server together (NOT SEPARATE, TOGETHER!)
And with a good idea it could actually go somewhere >.>

Because I don't have a gold account, and I'm not shoveling out money for one when I have RC access and free reign of the NPC-Server on Valikorlia...

Switch · #37 07-26-2008, 03:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu

Because I don't have a gold account, and I'm not shoveling out money for one when I have RC access and free reign of the NPC-Server on Valikorlia...

sounds fun then!

excaliber7388 · #38 07-26-2008, 04:07 AM

With everyone contributing, it would be open source (all on the forums) for all servers to use. It won't be things that people will want for server content (movement systems, etc), but they will be useful as utilities and learning tools.
It would be an interesting way to improve the functionality of graal, without waiting for a new version.

DrakilorP2P · #39 07-26-2008, 05:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inverness

I want a baddy script so I don't have to try to make it myself.

I don't want to reinvent the wheel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LoneAngelIbesu

You know as well as any other that if you provide a newbie scripter with completed code, they aren't going to bother to learn what the code does.

They'll learn their lesson when it's time to maintain the code and they realize that they can't fix anything.

Quote:

Originally Posted by xXziroXx

I wanted to do that with Mythic, I even had a thread with all scripts in it. But, I killed that idea when graal.net crashed and took them all with it. I might see myself doing it again in the future, undecided at this point.

Do it!

napo_p2p · #40 07-26-2008, 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrakilorP2P

I don't want to reinvent the wheel.

But, in the case of baddies, Graal changed the roads. We need a new wheel.