Better guild support

DustyPorViva · #1 04-07-2008, 07:56 AM

I hear the guild CP is going to be scripted... and maybe this stuff is planned, but I figure it's the best time. Right now, guilds are crippled.

In other MMO's they work much better because players usually dedicate themselves to one server, and that there are really few servers. Most importantly, guild's don't really span over multiple servers... so they don't really have the same problems guilds in Graal do.

There just isn't anything unifying about guilds. You can't really communicate across servers... so that's the main problem. Even if everyone wears their tags, many are off doing their own thing on their favorite server and it really tears the experience apart. There's just no communication... what are guilds for if you can't even communicate with your members? It seems the only servers that do well are those that occupy themselves mainly on one server like those on UN and Classic.

More importantly... there's no way to transfer information and news. The web CP provides the option... but no one goes there. I suggest some sort of in-game message system where you can post messages for the guild and when members log on they're somehow informed. This way we can relay important information to members of the guild... especially a guild with a purpose.

I also propose that guilds be implemented into RC's as well. I spent most of my time on RC, and noticed it didn't matter a bit. Why? Even though I wore my tag, it didn't matter.

I tried to do something big with Developer's Circle, but because of these handicaps it fell pretty fast. Even though we got a server, only those who frequented the forums and read the thread found out. We had no way to announce to the members that there was a whole server for them to learn and practice on. We got forums... but again, there was no way to tell anyone about it. Because of the nature of the guild, it was only logical that everyone would be spread out... so we couldn't even talk to each other through guild PM's. It completely ruined any image I had of the guild when I created it and it saddened me that such simple things aren't possible.

Summary:

On tag members should be global across servers. Every on-tag member on every server should appear on the guild section on the playerlist. Should be able to communicate as well.
Ability to post in-game messages and notices for the guild members to read. A bulletin board for all members, and a news section for leaders to post important news. If the guild CP is scripted into the client this may not be needed... but I still suggest something simpler and more accessible. Much like tabbed systems you see on many servers for news and hirings.
Just more unification for guilds. There's no reason a guild should ever feel this disjointed.

Anyways, I think we should gather ideas for guilds so maybe they'll be improved... especially if they plan on working on them soon.

Pimmeh · #2 04-07-2008, 08:07 AM

Likey!
Seriously, I've been thinking about this stuff, but never came to a complete sentance :P
Support!
And it shouldnt be THAT hard, should it?

Admins · #3 04-07-2008, 11:35 AM

Hmmm for the playerlist thing we could make it so that you automatically watch the guild globally when you join it. Currently you need to double-click on your guild name in the global guild list.

Update: added a check when the guild name is changing (onPlayerChanges) and automatically let the player watch the guild globally. Please tell me if it's fine like that or if there are problems.

DustyPorViva · #4 04-07-2008, 03:35 PM

It seems to work... but you can only see other guild members in the guild tab. They're not being listed on the main playerlist under Guild and we still can't send and receive guild messages to each other.

Admins · #5 04-07-2008, 05:01 PM

For me it's showing "Stefan (VIP) (on Classic)" on the guilds tab, using the scripted playerlist though.
Update: seems to only work with the scripted playerlist, so we need to wait until the next Graal version to make that work (where the separate playerlist window is also using the scripted playerlist).
For the in-game message system, what stuff of the guild control panel should be accessible first ? (url/functionality)

DustyPorViva · #6 04-08-2008, 01:02 AM

Definitely the discussion board. It's very, very hard to get news across to the guild.
I'd also like some sort of news system where those with privileges can post news, and some sort of icon that blinks when there is new news. Either that, or have it so anytime there is a new stickied post in the discussion board, there is some sort of blinking icon so the player knows there is news to be read.

kia345 · #7 04-08-2008, 01:38 AM

An entire in-game Guild CP maybe? Or at least an in-game browser that's limited to the Guild CP.

Admins · #8 04-12-2008, 11:30 PM

I've added a test script on "login2" which shows a window with links to the last 10 topics on the guilds panel, also showing a different icon depending on if there are new messages.
Login to "login2", then to your favourite server, and set your guild tag. There will appear a new button in the task bar. Please tell me if you like that, and ideas about what could be improved or added.

Tigairius · #9 04-12-2008, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan

I've added a test script on "login2" which shows a window with links to the last 10 topics on the guilds panel, also showing a different icon depending on if there are new messages.
Login to "login2", then to your favourite server, and set your guild tag. There will appear a new button in the task bar. Please tell me if you like that, and ideas about what could be improved or added.

Nice

It would be nicer if we didn't have to go to the website and log in though..

Desear · #10 04-13-2008, 12:43 AM

I like it, and as Tig stated would be nicer if you could post and view them without logging into the site.

Would be very cool if you could somehow incorporate the Guild CP itself into the actual game, could make use of another "F#" key, or maybe have it on the task bar, "Guild CP" or something.

kia345 · #11 04-13-2008, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan

I've added a test script on "login2" which shows a window with links to the last 10 topics on the guilds panel, also showing a different icon depending on if there are new messages.
Login to "login2", then to your favourite server, and set your guild tag. There will appear a new button in the task bar. Please tell me if you like that, and ideas about what could be improved or added.

This is hot.

Admins · #12 04-13-2008, 02:11 AM

Ok changed the links to do auto-login to the website.

Rufus · #13 04-13-2008, 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan

I've added a test script on "login2" which shows a window with links to the last 10 topics on the guilds panel, also showing a different icon depending on if there are new messages.
Login to "login2", then to your favourite server, and set your guild tag. There will appear a new button in the task bar. Please tell me if you like that, and ideas about what could be improved or added.

It needs the headers (Topic, Author, Posts, Views, Last Post) at the top, and the dark yellow font isn't really attractive for the hyperlinks to the threads. Local tags are an issue.. nothing special but they're showing the previously set guild's threads with the title of the local tag.

There are tons of things that could make guilds 100% better, but I honestly don't think this is one of them, it kind of takes the purpose from the website. Now all the website is used for is registrations, and that really pisses me off to be honest.

Dan · #14 04-13-2008, 02:59 AM

I see nothing

DustyPorViva · #15 04-13-2008, 03:13 AM

First time I logged into Login 2 nothing happened. Second time I logged in a window popped up and asked me if I wanted to open the URL, I did so which led me to a 'there was an error processing your request' page.

kia345 · #16 04-13-2008, 03:21 AM

It worked for me >:

Perhaps something like Gk's Kingdom menuGUI could be implemented for guilds.

Admins · #17 04-13-2008, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rufus

There are tons of things that could make guilds 100 percent better, but I honestly don't think this is one of them, it kind of takes the purpose from the website. Now all the website is used for is registrations, and that really pisses me off to be honest.

Um why exactly? I've made this tool because people have requested it. It's telling you when there is a new post made on the guilds forum, and you can click on the thread to watch it. We could also add links / buttons for the other parts of the guild panel.

I'm not sure why you say it pisses you off that the website is only used for registrations. Actually you can also create an account within the game (or even simply by inviting a friend). Everything important is done by Graal anyway, the website is only an interface to it.

xXziroXx · #18 04-13-2008, 03:31 PM

I like it, Stefan.

And Rufus, look around on other online game's websites. I only see an account management site on them, where you pay for your account, change your account information, parental control etc. Why should Graal not do the same? Makes the game itself less crippled by adding in-game functions over website ones.

cbk1994 · #19 04-13-2008, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan

it pisses you off

olol

It would be nice if the entire control panel could be put into the game, that way it is easier to keep guilds together. Imagine a private IRC server that can be opened on any server (Imagine an IRC window that can be opened on any server that lets you chat with anyone in the server, join separate channels, or join their guild on every server, also can be scripted so server can add channels).

Basically a way to unite guilds better. I think the IRC like I said, or even global toguild messages. Most successful guilds are all on one server, such as Cherry, etc, since there is little way to communicate.

Rufus · #20 04-13-2008, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan

Um why exactly? I've made this tool because people have requested it. It's telling you when there is a new post made on the guilds forum, and you can click on the thread to watch it. We could also add links / buttons for the other parts of the guild panel.

I'm not sure why you say it pisses you off that the website is only used for registrations.

The suggestions Dusty made are good, but the suggestions made towards the in-game Guild CP are probably due to the fact that it was already planned to make it in-game. Personally I feel with local guilds, staff guilds and local guilds acting as other means (Kingdoms, Gangs, Nations) the guild CP is going to be extremely inconsistent with a lot of the other servers content if it is in game. A lot of the local guilds have custom interfaces that don't match the guild interface, but they're essentially the same thing -- it's annoying how disjointed everything is. This is why I believe the global guilds should stay as a part of a website-only interface.

The website is so incredibly disjointed from the client, and things probably shouldn't be made on the client because it's more convenient to add. Ziro you musn't be looking at many games, because in online gaming, it's rare to find websites that are poorly constructed and lack feature development while gaining and retaining a strong playerbase. Granted, many of their subscribers play for the high-quality in-game content itself, but most of the games have their interfaces for features like guilds on their websites.

The Graal website should act achieve 3 goals, especially in a marketing sense.

Connect users to game content and features
Drive sales
Build customer (and potential customer) databases

The website is currently being rendered obsolete, but it is a massive tool that should be turning casual browsers into consumers. Other games utilize their sites much better, and return visits to their site it adds to the gameplay itself and works more as a community function. Content is an accelerator for this, and Graal's website currently has next to nothing, other than of course the guild panel.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan

Actually you can also create an account within the game (or even simply by inviting a friend). Everything important is done by Graal anyway, the website is only an interface to it.

Features such as inviting a friend usually happens when you've first discovered a game, I highly doubt anyone has invited a friend using the client, because that is generally when they're more immersed in the game itself. Inviting a friend would be a more distinguishable call-to-action situated on the website, not the client.

Hell, if I'm wrong I'm wrong but over the last few years I was a big guild-orientated player and I never had an issue with the guild control panel being on the website, and wouldn't find it any more convenient in game. It's my personal opinion though, I just feel as though everything is being done so they can be edited easier, but that doesn't necessarily make them better. Just my opinion.

Dan · #21 04-13-2008, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rufus

...

Well said.

zokemon · #22 04-13-2008, 05:37 PM

I can see where you are coming from Rufus but in all honesty, I do not like waiting for my browser to load a stupid page because of all the html it has to send. Sending the data to the client is much faster and much more efficient and I don't see why we can't just have both?

Rufus · #23 04-13-2008, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zokemon

I can see where you are coming from Rufus but in all honesty, I do not like waiting for my browser to load a stupid page because of all the html it has to send. Sending the data to the client is much faster and much more efficient and I don't see why we can't just have both?

What kind of internet connection do you have, 28k? That was kind of a stupid statement.

Admins · #24 04-13-2008, 06:34 PM

Rufus I think you are overseen some parts of Graal and the website. We are running a forum and a wiki which are quite tightly integrated with the game (using the same accounts, displaying wiki news in the game), most Games that I know run really ****ty forums which are basicly a replacement for non-existing support. We are also running the support center where each day a lot of tickets are answered and resolved.

What Graal is missing is not adding more disconnected stuff, but to more unite the players - e.g. reusing the same look on several servers (not needing to type sethead etc. each time you login to another server), using global guilds, and not duplicate content on each server, more focussing on delivering things that are unique to the servers and do the other things with tools that work on any server.

Rufus · #25 04-13-2008, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan

Rufus I think you are overseen some parts of Graal and the website. We are running a forum and a wiki which are quite tightly integrated with the game (using the same accounts, displaying wiki news in the game), most Games that I know run really ****ty forums which are basicly a replacement for non-existing support. We are also running the support center where each day a lot of tickets are answered and resolved.

What Graal is missing is not adding more disconnected stuff, but to more unite the players - e.g. reusing the same look on several servers (not needing to type sethead etc. each time you login to another server), using global guilds, and not duplicate content on each server, more focussing on delivering things that are unique to the servers and do the other things with tools that work on any server.

The Graal website is far from community based, and the wiki is a niche area reserved for people who want to collaboratively create articles and referrences for things like development (that's currently what it's all about) but not everyone is interested in that, especially not a regular everyday player. The forums seem detached from the website (a minimalist link doesn't give them justice) and doesn't cater for the entire community sadly, which I've tried to bring up. I think you're aware that the forums could do with some organizing though.

The servers are generally different, but most of them carry the same themes or gameplay features. The features might be slightly different per server, but as a whole they're the same familiar gameplay concepts. This, like you said unites the community and is what Graal is today. Graal is one game with many different servers, but there still should be some degree of consistency between all of the servers else it's not a game you can develop for generically, just a hub.

The fact that some servers use local guilds as their main guilds, while others rely on global guilds is an example of the inconsistency. Perhaps local guilds should be turned into staff-only, or for use of other systems (as mentioned previously, Kingdoms/Nations/Gangs, server specific concepts with the same idea) instead of confusing the players by having local and global guilds, then having local interfaces and global interfaces for guilds -- they're the same thing.

Consistency between the features provides a comfort, so perhaps the servers need to start working together as Graal, instead of their own piece of the pie.

cbk1994 · #26 04-13-2008, 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan

****ty

Who are you and what did you do with Stefan? :O

Desear · #27 04-14-2008, 04:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rufus

Big Words, something about trying to bring the community together, Final point: Local and Global Guilds need some connection to be able to implement a guild GUI seeing as some servers, Kingdoms, Zodiac, and Era have unique ones.

A simple solution could be to just make this new in-game Guild GUI only work with Global Guilds, it could work by checking the lists within the Guild CP (Pending, Active, Special, Suspended). But this would still cause problems for servers like Zodiac, so I suggest why not simply disable the Global GUI for servers with their own custom Guild GUIs, such as Zodiac, and Era, because they don't allow global guilds in the first place. Although, Kingdoms should be fine as long as no one makes a guild called, "Zormite Republic", "Forest", "Crescent Pirates", "Samurai", or such.

Note: Disbanded would not be included in the check seeing as how they are well.. disbanded.

cbk1994 · #28 04-14-2008, 05:00 AM

Of course, I would hate it if Graal tried to automatically manage my local guilds.

Admins · #29 04-16-2008, 12:42 PM

Has anyone an idea what should be added next to the guild cp tool? What stuff should be changed before releasing it to everyone?

Rufus · #30 04-16-2008, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan

Has anyone an idea what should be added next to the guild cp tool? What stuff should be changed before releasing it to everyone?

Eh here's a few, they're not specifically for the in-game Guild CP though..

Changes

In the Guild CP, the icons should flash on new event. For example, the Membership Applications and Discussion Board icons indicating that there are new applications/thread replies. When you've checked them, the indicator stops until a new application/post is made. The indicator would be for those who have the rights to access such things.
On the main page of the Guild CP there should be a direct link to your application that you can send to players when recruiting.
You should need to specify why you're removing a player when you do.

Better formatting on the Discussion Board options such as smiley's and the ability to sticky important threads.
Ranks on the discussion board reflecting the actual player ranks. Currently the ranks are displaying old ranks from when the guild system was restored.

In your Public Information you should be able to specify what type of guild you are from a predefined list, which would split the guilds up into definitive areas. For example -- Beginner-Friendly, Casual, Community, Competitive, PKing-Focused, Sparring-Focused, Social, Roleplaying, Fun, Development, etc.
In your Public Information you should be allowed to upload 3 screen shots to appear on your guild listing page (thumbnail hyper links, of course). It would make the pages a lot more attractive and specific guild based. Along with that, the fields that haven't got any input shouldn't be displayed.
In your Public Information you should be able to enter allies, then make a check to match it up with the other guild's ID. Once they're matched up, if both guilds are listing the other, the guilds shouldn't be able to hit each other on servers, and should act as one guild in terms of fighting. This has been suggested many times before and it's on Classic, I'd love to see this officially and easier to do.

New Ideas

Each guild makes their own icon, maybe? I don't know.
We used to have the "Event Informations / Subscribe to Event" but it was never really finished. It would be nice if each guild had their own calendar to input events, and for users to be able to subscribe to that event. Perhaps if a calendar is too hard to do, just a basic list of events with information fields. It would really help when organizing events such as spar tournaments, developer discussions, fun..
GUILD OBJECT FOR SCRIPTING!! ..just thought I'd slip that in

Admins · #31 04-17-2008, 01:03 AM

We can probably add more "requesttext" options so that you can retrieve more information about a global guild.
The extensions to the guild forums are not that simple, it might be better if we could reuse the communication center for guilds, althought I don't know how much work that would be.

I guess the next thing we can add is the membership-invitation directly in-game using the scripted playerlist.

Twinny · #32 04-17-2008, 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan

We can probably add more "requesttext" options so that you can retrieve more information about a global guild.
The extensions to the guild forums are not that simple, it might be better if we could reuse the communication center for guilds, althought I don't know how much work that would be.

I guess the next thing we can add is the membership-invitation directly in-game using the scripted playerlist.

You have 502 invitations to the, "Fluffy Bunny Extravaganza!" guild.

I can see nooby groups on UN inviting everyone...as long as limits are placed on invitations i.e. one per guild and such, and that it's definitely safe from scripts

Desear · #33 04-17-2008, 04:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twinny

You have 502 invitations to the, "Fluffy Bunny Extravaganza!" guild.

I can see nooby groups on UN inviting everyone...as long as limits are placed on invitations i.e. one per guild and such, and that it's definitely safe from scripts

As long as you mean like, 1 per every 12 hours or something, I could go with 24 hours actually. This is in-case they discarded the invitation, and also because some people don't want to join, and later down the road they do.

Admins · #34 04-19-2008, 04:09 PM

Hmmm we could also make "toguild" send the message to guild members on other servers.

Rufus · #35 04-19-2008, 04:15 PM

The guild section in my opinion should take priority over Buddies, like the Staff section does.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan

Hmmm for the playerlist thing we could make it so that you automatically watch the guild globally when you join it. Currently you need to double-click on your guild name in the global guild list.

Update: added a check when the guild name is changing (onPlayerChanges) and automatically let the player watch the guild globally. Please tell me if it's fine like that or if there are problems.

..isn't working either when people are displaying themselves as hidden (which it probably should).

cbk1994 · #36 04-19-2008, 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan

Hmmm we could also make "toguild" send the message to guild members on other servers.

toguild messages are hard to track -- they are out of order.

See my idea on the IRC client.

Rufus · #37 02-20-2009, 02:23 AM

Bump because most of these suggestions are actually useful, have been requested for a long time, and should be implemented without requiring a new thread.

DustyPorViva · #38 02-20-2009, 02:52 AM

Yes please.

Frankie · #39 02-20-2009, 04:38 AM

I didn't read through the other pages and it was most likely posted here, but an in-game application would be nice too.

MiniOne · #40 02-20-2009, 07:36 AM

I'm not sure if you can other guild members which are on other servers?
If you can't you should allow that so you can do Mass pms to your guild members where ever they may be