GraalDev

coreys · #1 03-14-2008, 05:09 AM

(Note to moderators: I'm not sure this is in the right area, since it isn't about GScript, so move it if you think it isn't.)

Recently I've been learning and gotten some good experience with the Python coding language (technically scripting language, since it's interpreted, but eh) and I've decided to do something I've wanted to do (but never had the knowledge) for a long time. I'm creating a set of cross-platform Development tools aimed at Graal Development. (I started working on a level editor that supports tile layers just as practice, but I've postponed it for awhile, but I will start it back up if it seems that Stefan hasn't really been working on those client tools he has mentioned before)

Currently I am working on a paint program with everything a GAT or any other developer will need for making graphics for Graal. Basic paint tools like MS Paint; support for layering, alpha, and color transparency; and advanced tools such as lighten/darken, smudge, and filters like contrast adjustment.

These tools will, of course, be free and open-source, unlike higher end programs that do the same, like Paint Shop Pro.

So my proposition is for anyone who would be willing to help, specifically those experienced with the Python language, or even C (apparently you can make C extensions in Python), preferably with knowledge of the wxPython and Python Imaging Library libraries. I, of course, am looking for peoples input and anyone else wanting to help with idea's, graphics, etc.

cbk1994 · #2 03-14-2008, 05:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coreys

(Note to moderators: I'm not sure this is in the right area, since it isn't about GScript, so move it if you think it isn't.)

Recently I've been learning and gotten some good experience with the Python coding language (technically scripting language, since it's interpreted, but eh) and I've decided to do something I've wanted to do (but never had the knowledge) for a long time. I'm creating a set of cross-platform Development tools aimed at Graal Development. (I started working on a level editor that supports tile layers just as practice, but I've postponed it for awhile, but I will start it back up if it seems that Stefan hasn't really been working on those client tools he has mentioned before)

Currently I am working on a paint program with everything a GAT or any other developer will need for making graphics for Graal. Basic paint tools like MS Paint; support for layering, alpha, and color transparency; and advanced tools such as lighten/darken, smudge, and filters like contrast adjustment.

These tools will, of course, be free and open-source, unlike higher end programs that do the same, like Paint Shop Pro.

So my proposition is for anyone who would be willing to help, specifically those experienced with the Python language, or even C (apparently you can make C extensions in Python), preferably with knowledge of the wxPython and Python Imaging Library libraries. I, of course, am looking for peoples input and anyone else wanting to help with idea's, graphics, etc.

Stop worrying about the damn dev tools for Windows -- Mac doesn't even have any! And people complain that Window's dev tools are outdated.

Personally I think the graphics editor is a waste of time; I doubt you could make one that would match similar free programs ... would take far more experience than it seems you have (from reading your post).

I would personally skip level editor for now, and work on a GANI editor that can rotate, resize, etc (even if you have to have it automatically create rotated and resized images). If anything needs work, it is the GANI editor.

Of course, GANI Editor is one of the things that could be easily made in game, the files are very simple.

Anyway, sounds good. Keep us posted! Once you finish this, go learn Cocoa and come back and make me some damn Mac dev tools!

coreys · #3 03-14-2008, 05:26 AM

I said they were cross-platform. They'll work on any OS that Python supports, which is Windows, Mac, Linux...even BeOS...not that we'd need anything other than the first three.

Twinny · #4 03-14-2008, 05:29 AM

Does gimp run on mac?

Vulcan · #5 03-14-2008, 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twinny

Does gimp run on mac?

Yeah, there is a version for OSX.

coreys · #6 03-14-2008, 06:15 AM

Well I planned to make it whole set of tools. Level Editor (assuming Stefan doesn't beat me to it), Gani Editor, Paint program, I intended to make a separate
animated gif creator (the PIL makes it pretty easy to do it), possibly little programs to create GUI's and such.

Inverness · #7 03-14-2008, 06:43 AM

Ugh, I thought I told you not to do that. The external scripting windows will be released much sooner than you could make that stuff and if they work just fine then you have wasted your time.

DustyPorViva · #8 03-14-2008, 06:48 AM

I'd still like an external level editor...

coreys · #9 03-14-2008, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inverness

Ugh, I thought I told you not to do that. The external scripting windows will be released much sooner than you could make that stuff and if they work just fine then you have wasted your time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

I'd still like an external level editor...

::cough::
Exactly...that and I have yet to see any news of Stefan's Online Level Editor.
Also...personally, although I obviously cannot say for anyone else, think that Client based tools are annoying. They clutter the screen, and glitches seem to pop up everywhere. (Like showimg's showing on top of the Client RC)

Inverness · #10 03-14-2008, 07:50 AM

What part of External Scripted Window is not understood? Its not really different than your use of wxPython.

grawlgamer · #11 03-14-2008, 07:57 AM

I thought mac was all about painting pretty pictures?

Horrified · #12 03-14-2008, 12:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grawlgamer

I thought mac was all about painting pretty pictures?

I thought it was staring at them?

And some kind of external script program that can detect literally anything wrong with your scripts would save a **** load of time when you don't know what you're doing wrong.

coreys · #13 03-14-2008, 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horrified

And some kind of external script program that can detect literally anything wrong with your scripts would save a **** load of time when you don't know what you're doing wrong.

Only in my wildest dreams could I accomplish that.

And last I heard, Inverness, Stefan was planning to make client tools, not external ones.

DustyPorViva · #14 03-14-2008, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inverness

What part of External Scripted Window is not understood? Its not really different than your use of wxPython.

I don't believe external windows will make an internal level editor any different... since, well, it's not in a separate window anyways.

zokemon · #15 03-14-2008, 07:07 PM

If external level editors aren't super laggy and are nice and smooth, I will finish my in-game .nw editor with tilelayer support, stamps, painting tools, etc.

DustyPorViva · #16 03-14-2008, 07:28 PM

The problem I see with using an external window level editor is the fact that you'd have to draw the level using images... :/

coreys · #17 03-14-2008, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

The problem I see with using an external window level editor is the fact that you'd have to draw the level using images... :/

What's the difference between that and internal? Graal is constantly doing it.

Chompy · #18 03-14-2008, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coreys

What's the difference between that and internal? Graal is constantly doing it.

It's like drawing an image using polygons

DustyPorViva · #19 03-14-2008, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coreys

What's the difference between that and internal? Graal is constantly doing it.

One level=4096 images for each tile.
I can't believe you just compared showing images to how Graal generates a level. Sure, Graal has to display the level too, but it's pretty obvious it's much more efficiently done than using showimg's.

coreys · #20 03-14-2008, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

One level=4096 images for each tile.
I can't believe you just compared showing images to how Graal generates a level. Sure, Graal has to display the level too, but it's pretty obvious it's much more efficiently done than using showimg's.

?
I was talking about an external level editor. o_o
And internal one wouldn't need to be showing 4096 showimg's o.0

cbk1994 · #21 03-14-2008, 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inverness

external scripting windows will be released much sooner

I sure hope so, they are working very well on Mac.

Quote:

Originally Posted by coreys

Client based tools are annoying.

Don't talk unless you've seen the external windows (which is like Stefan, Skyld, and I). The external windows are much, much better.

Quote:

Originally Posted by coreys

I said they were cross-platform. They'll work on any OS that Python supports, which is Windows, Mac, Linux...even BeOS...not that we'd need anything other than the first three.

ilu <3

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inverness

What part of External Scripted Window is not understood? Its not really different than your use of wxPython.

Might be slightly less laggy, plus you wouldn't need internet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by grawlgamer

I thought mac was all about painting pretty pictures?

No, GTFO

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horrified

I thought it was staring at them?

No, GTFO!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Horrified

And some kind of external script program that can detect literally anything wrong with your scripts would save a **** load of time when you don't know what you're doing wrong.

Impossible. How could it detect serverside functions? x.x

Quote:

Originally Posted by coreys

And last I heard, Inverness, Stefan was planning to make client tools, not external ones.

Guess you've heard incorrectly.

Quote:

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

I don't believe external windows will make an internal level editor any different... since, well, it's not in a separate window anyways.

What do you want? Is there any difference? Should work exactly the same, except for performance. Still, personally I think the plusses outnumber the minuses.

Quote:

Originally Posted by coreys

?
I was talking about an external level editor. o_o
And internal one wouldn't need to be showing 4096 showimg's o.0

I think he was saying you'd have to show 4,096 images to show the level in the external one.

coreys · #22 03-14-2008, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbkbud

Impossible. How could it detect serverside functions? x.x

You could still detect syntax errors and such.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbkbud

Guess you've heard incorrectly.

I remember Stefan mentioning he was going to make client tools, not external ones.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbkbud

I think he was saying you'd have to show 4,096 images to show the level in the external one.

Not exactly. It would be better to take 4096 image pieces and put them together to form one image. And Graal still has to do more, I'm sure.

Tolnaftate2004 · #23 03-14-2008, 11:04 PM

If anyone here knows how zip compression works, I'm sure the same principle could be used to speed up drawing these images, methinks. Constraints could be placed on such a window to force some culling, too...

DrakilorP2P · #24 03-15-2008, 03:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tolnaftate2004

If anyone here knows how zip compression works, I'm sure the same principle could be used to speed up drawing these images, methinks. Constraints could be placed on such a window to force some culling, too...

I don't think drawing speed is of any concern. If you really need blazing speed, put everything in a 1024x1024 texture and tell the graphics card to draw it.
This type of decompression would probably just make everything slower, unless your original method is grossly suboptimal.

DustyPorViva · #25 03-15-2008, 03:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coreys

?
I was talking about an external level editor. o_o
And internal one wouldn't need to be showing 4096 showimg's o.0

The whole point was about internal client tools(like clientRC). I dunno where you got the idea I was talking about external level editor's.

coreys · #26 03-15-2008, 03:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

The whole point was about internal client tools(like clientRC). I dunno where you got the idea I was talking about external level editor's.

Well okay, then what's the problem there?
No-ones making any.

DustyPorViva · #27 03-15-2008, 03:41 AM

No 'problem' per say, but the whole argument that external windows will make everything so much better. I'm sure it'll make things like scripting windows and RC better, but it's not gonna make a client level editor any better(since you can either have no external window... and thus, no help. Or do it in an external window, and have to draw the level via showimg's). Thus, I still encourage the coding of an external level editor like introduced in the original post. My point was just to those who said there's no reason since external windows were coming.

Tolnaftate2004 · #28 03-15-2008, 05:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrakilorP2P

I don't think drawing speed is of any concern. If you really need blazing speed, put everything in a 1024x1024 texture and tell the graphics card to draw it.
This type of decompression would probably just make everything slower, unless your original method is grossly suboptimal.

Uh, I think we might be talking about different things; I meant an internal level editor...

zokemon · #29 03-15-2008, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

The problem I see with using an external window level editor is the fact that you'd have to draw the level using images... :/

I already did that with my level editor that I made 2 years ago or so. I used TDrawingPanels as it doesn't lag nearly as much. And again, I'll finish it if external windows are added and are efficient.

coreys · #30 03-15-2008, 05:21 PM

I'm still going to make a level editor, though!
For offline purposes.

That and I personally would just prefer it, as apparently some others would as well.

cbk1994 · #31 03-15-2008, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zokemon

I already did that with my level editor that I made 2 years ago or so. I used TDrawingPanels as it doesn't lag nearly as much. And again, I'll finish it if external windows are added and are efficient.

They will be added, and they are very, very efficient and work great.

Chompy · #32 03-15-2008, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cbkbud

They will be added, and they are very, very efficient and work great.

video or it didn't happen..

Bah, I want to make stuff using external windows

cbk1994 · #33 03-16-2008, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chompy

video or it didn't happen..

Bah, I want to make stuff using external windows

I apologize for the large watermark, it was either that, or it was exported as a 5 GB SWF file ...

coreys · #34 03-16-2008, 06:04 AM

This pleases me.

Of course, I still have yet to see any reason to stop my efforts.

cbk1994 · #35 03-16-2008, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coreys

This pleases me.

Of course, I still have yet to see any reason to stop my efforts.

No, continue. I would love to see an external level editor or GANI Editor for Mac (and Windows, of course ...)

Still, I think you'd be wasting your time making an image editor when there are many free ones that can do so much more (no offense).

coreys · #36 03-16-2008, 06:33 AM

I haven't found a single free one I particularly like.

And in any case, I've made it my goal to make a quick little GIF Animator first. It should be fairly easy.

DrakilorP2P · #37 03-16-2008, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coreys

I haven't found a single free one I particularly like.

It sounds like modifying the interface of an existing editor would save quite some time. From what I've gathered, that should be quite easy on the GIMP.