Cheat program detection

Twinny · #1 10-18-2007, 06:30 AM

Instead of showing the RC alert every single time (and most of the times, multiple RC entries for the one detection

) a 'cheat program' is detected, could it be changed to warn RC on the second attempt within a short period of time (say a day or two)?

I've not realized I've had graal opened several times while trying to use these tools and as such have a few 'alerts' against me. Most staff understand this but you get a few trigger happy fools who are more than ready to ban you.

Crow · #2 10-18-2007, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twinny

Most staff understand this but you get a few trigger happy fools who are more than ready to ban you.

Exactly. You wont get this feature changed, I already tried.

Admins · #3 10-18-2007, 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twinny

who are more than ready to ban you.

I think they should?

Twinny · #4 10-18-2007, 03:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan

I think they should?

I agree completely if a person tries multiple times to use a program against the graal client in one setting. But in accidental cases, it kinda sucks. I play graal in the wee hours alot so not much activity. I often leave graal idling whilst playing another game. As such, I sometimes forget about the whole detection when attempting to manipulate other games. I recently got banned since I've been detected 3 times over a spaced out period of two years.

TSAdmin · #5 10-19-2007, 01:53 PM

But the thing is, Twinny, that it only takes one attempt for players who know what they're doing. And if they do fail once, go do it again on another account/IP/CompID or all of the above.

Crow · #6 10-19-2007, 02:01 PM

But it also takes only one harmless action by someone who didnt even know about the detection to get banned. The RC will be alerted when you switch into an empty folder called "Cheat Engine" for example.

Sam · #7 10-19-2007, 02:04 PM

There is still the option to contact a staff member to clarify the "mistake".

Crow · #8 10-19-2007, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

There is still the option to contact a staff member to clarify the "mistake".

Sure, do that and try to prove you didnt do anything -_- Good luck.

Twinny · #9 10-19-2007, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

There is still the option to contact a staff member to clarify the "mistake".

Certain members of staff are fairly...thick-headed... plus arrogant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TSAdmin

But the thing is, Twinny, that it only takes one attempt for players who know what they're doing. And if they do fail once, go do it again on another account/IP/CompID or all of the above.

If the computer ID method was improved, it would be a ****load harder to forge. As for IP, I know several IRC servers have an open proxy scanner...would be cool if Graal did the same to try and prevent proxy-based hackers.

Sam · #10 10-19-2007, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crow

Sure, do that and try to prove you didnt do anything -_- Good luck.

I have given amnesty to players several times.

Crow · #11 10-19-2007, 04:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sam

I have given amnesty to players several times.

You are a pretty nice person Sam, but there are alot of staff members who just dont understand what exactly is going on. I see that as a problem :/

Bell · #12 10-19-2007, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crow

You are a pretty nice person Sam, but there are alot of staff members who just dont understand what exactly is going on. I see that as a problem :/

The bigger problem is, almost every last one of them uses the excuse its a false detection or I was using the cheat tools on another game. Who do you believe and who do you not? Then after they've been given chances and staff get fed up and ban them permanently they come back, admit they had cheated in the past but swear on their mothers lives they will never do it again.

I don't see it as thickheaded staff, I see it as staff getting tired of listening to people cry about getting caught. First time grouping or use is supposed to be a 30 day cheating ban as a warning its been detected anyway. If you have an empty cheat tools folder that it catches then maybe changing the folder name might be in order.

As far as forgetting you left graal open all I have to say is this. Don't idle for hours Twinny and it won't happen

Twinny · #13 10-19-2007, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bell

The bigger problem is, almost every last one of them uses the excuse its a false detection or I was using the cheat tools on another game. Who do you believe and who do you not? Then after they've been given chances and staff get fed up and ban them permanently they come back, admit they had cheated in the past but swear on their mothers lives they will never do it again.

If it only alerts staff on the second+ try, the people who are actually trying to cheat will be caught out. Most non-malicious players won't get past the first client warning.

xAndrewx · #14 10-19-2007, 07:09 PM

You're only saying this because you got caught, rofl

Twinny · #15 10-19-2007, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

You're only saying this because you got caught, rofl

I've defended quite a few people regarding this and for some time.

xAndrewx · #16 10-19-2007, 08:17 PM

simple, the applications that're detected shouldn't be used for/on Graal. Thus, they're logged. How're we to know that you were using it for some other game?

Twinny · #17 10-19-2007, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

simple, the applications that're detected shouldn't be used for/on Graal. Thus, they're logged. How're we to know that you were using it for some other game?

How are you to know they were being used to attack Graal? This is why I say warn on the second detection. Detecting the program isn't guarantee that they are hacking...more of a, "Staff: watch this peep" or so.

I think the fact that it kills the client and warns against cheating is great I'd just rather it warn the server on the second+ attempt.

xAndrewx · #18 10-19-2007, 08:40 PM

Player pc:109139 (ip 71.130.254.82) is using cheating tools: Cheat Engine 5.3
Player pc:109139 (ip 71.130.254.82) is using cheating tools: Cheat Engine 5.3
(gserver) has locally banned pc:109139
Ban type: Cheating
Ban time: 30 days and 0 hours
Reason: Using cheating tools
(gserver) has locally banned pc:109139
Ban type: Cheating
Ban time: 30 days and 0 hours
Reason: Using cheating tools

happened two minutes ago

Crow · #19 10-19-2007, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

simple, the applications that're detected shouldn't be used for/on Graal. Thus, they're logged. How're we to know that you were using it for some other game?

Did you read my post about false detection?

xAndrewx · #20 10-19-2007, 08:42 PM

That's not the point? Who'd be retarded enough to create a folder called Art Money if one were to ask

Crow · #21 10-19-2007, 08:48 PM

It was just an example. It would also happen if you would surf on websites which are about those programs and have their name somewhere in the window title.

Twinny · #22 10-19-2007, 08:48 PM

I don't know if it has been fixed yet but occasionally RC posted multiple reports for the one instance.

xAndrewx · #23 10-19-2007, 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crow

It was just an example. It would also happen if you would surf on websites which are about those programs and have their name somewhere in the window title.

That's not false detection. You're on Graal looking for programs to manipulate Graal.

Crow · #24 10-19-2007, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

That's not false detection. You're on Graal looking for programs to manipulate Graal.

Wrong. I'm on Graal, and in the meanwhile surfing the web. Maybe just a link I found on a forum which said "check this one" and links to the CE website. How on earth would I know it closes and alerts Graal? You could say "check where the link goes first". Well, what about peeps who just dont know that Graal detects that as harmful?

xAndrewx · #25 10-19-2007, 09:01 PM

Graal should inform people of the hazards.
No way, should it give people an extra chance.

Crow · #26 10-19-2007, 09:06 PM

I didnt say anything about "extra chance", but Graal lacks information. New players dont know about that weird detection system.

Twinny · #27 10-19-2007, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xAndrewx

Graal should inform people of the hazards.
No way, should it give people an extra chance.

You could be informed by

"<bad tool> detected. If any cheating programs are detected again, the server will be notified."

xAndrewx · #28 10-19-2007, 09:09 PM

I suppose that'd help. Maybe it being written in their ban info too

Chris · #29 10-19-2007, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twinny

How are you to know they were being used to attack Graal?

The burden of proof is on your end. The staff are just enforcing the rules. Deal with it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crow

It was just an example. It would also happen if you would surf on websites which are about those programs and have their name somewhere in the window title.

Doesn't work like that. The other words (browser titles) would negate the detection.

Switch · #30 10-20-2007, 12:36 AM

You shouldn't be "manipulating" other games.
Nuff said.

Crow · #31 10-20-2007, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris

Doesn't work like that. The other words (browser titles) would negate the detection.

It triggered when I tried last time.

Edit: Gotta say, I used FF back then and had an addon which would remove the " - Mozilla Firefox" thingy.

grawlgamer · #32 10-20-2007, 08:53 PM

If you are manipulating other games it is a matter of time before you manipulate Graal. Why is it so hard to understand?

Crow · #33 10-20-2007, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grawlgamer

If you are manipulating other games it is a matter of time before you manipulate Graal. Why is it so hard to understand?

You obviously dont know alot of people like me. I only manipulated Graal once, and after a discussion with Stefan, that got wallhacking on Zone fixed.

Twinny · #34 10-21-2007, 04:36 AM

PROOF

Have Graal running and open this thread:
http://forums.graalonline.com/forums...98#post1353698

It would definitely be hard to prove that one, "but...but....i just had a thread open!". It would suck even more if the title had an actual program name in it

[edit]: Tested it a bit and it doesn't seem to leave a report....just kills everything

Switch · #35 10-21-2007, 07:51 PM

He Speaks Le Truth!

Twinny · #36 10-22-2007, 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by grawlgamer

If you are manipulating other games it is a matter of time before you manipulate Graal. Why is it so hard to understand?

That's a stupid statement. Major difference between manipulating offline and online games alone.

Crow · #37 10-22-2007, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twinny

That's a stupid statement. Major difference between manipulating offline and online games alone.

I lurv ya.

Edit: Oh, yea, now that we are at it. Why talk about games. I dont only use CE to manipulate several Games, I also manipulate Software. Not in a negative way though. I changed the standard palette in mspaint, using CE to find the memory regions. I doubt thats harmful

Crono · #38 10-22-2007, 01:09 PM

I manipulate my level editor with cheat engine to make leet cliffs.

Crow · #39 10-22-2007, 01:19 PM

Rofl

Mark Sir Link · #40 10-22-2007, 04:39 PM

why are the staff so adamant in protecting an obviously flawed system?

Why do servers still need GPs if this auto-detection is supposed to stop all hackers and scripting can allow for swear filters?

I do not know why so many people here are adamant in defending that it's a good system because it detects any programs open that are used for memory editing. So what? I can play World of Warcraft with a memory editor open, good thing they have a competent programming team/enforcement team to keep me from getting instantly banned because I have something they don't like open.

How about the cheat program detection is improved so it's actually viable at detecting if people are cheating, or how about it's removed?