Delteria Jobs Available - Page 2

MKxTortoise · #41 05-05-2007, 02:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infernix

GJ ruining your own hiring thread Delteria Staff team! WOO GO TEAM!

Is it that unreasonable to think that there may be people on this board reasonable enough to avoid this quagmire of stupidity and just went straight to my instant messenger like I requested? Wouldn't you know it - no! There are actually some people who are rational enough to do something totally insane like not complain about policy and instead give it a shot, working with it to see what happens.

I'm also curious as to what you would expect me to claim here. Are you expecting me to say "New Delteria will make Delteria one of the most mediocre servers ever!" or perhaps "Nothing is more average than a job on New Delteria!" I cannot follow your arguments about potential at all. A "good server" is something of a matter of opinion. I measure it in playercount. You might measure it in graphics, another person might measure it in script eloquence, yet another in server complexity, and a final person might take a look at community cohesion. All of these things are fine, but do you actually expect me to say something other than "the server I work for is ****ing awesome, and I think you should all jump in!"

I think you people would be surprised to see how well this thread actually worked. My quality assurance efforts, while clearly controversial, generated an interesting pool for talent. We're still looking for more, though, so anyone who want a job feel free to keep contacting me. As for the rest of you, if you'd like me to keep justifying my policy, keep asking me. It is not nearly as harsh as it seems and I stand by it. Ask yourself something, though: what do you think the policy is like on Graal Kingdoms? Unholy Nation? Even Zodiac to an extent, or Era? Zone? Compare it to the servers that are at the end of the day hidden away far, far beneath the playerlist that barely have a chance to breathe. Think about servers that failed - G3k, Bravo, Enigma, SL, Mithica, Damasca - then ask yourself why they failed.

More applicants for Delteria welcome! All skill sets considered assuming you meet our prerequisites.

DustyPorViva · #42 05-05-2007, 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MKxTortoise

That observation is ridiculous because it ignores the assumed payout I hope everyone enjoys: the fun of making something.

I don't mind what you're doing. Good luck with it.
But really... it is volunteer, whether they enjoy it, or they get a tag or not, it is. I just feel the 'payout' isn't really equivalent to some of the talents on Graal. Not saying you're not going to get anybody, I just don't think anyone can repay some of the work that gets put into Graal with a tag and RC, even if they enjoy it.

Cloven · #43 05-05-2007, 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DustyPorViva

I don't mind what you're doing. Good luck with it.
But really... it is volunteer, whether they enjoy it, or they get a tag or not, it is. I just feel the 'payout' isn't really equivalent to some of the talents on Graal. Not saying you're not going to get anybody, I just don't think anyone can repay some of the work that gets put into Graal with a tag and RC, even if they enjoy it.

I enjoy the prospect of a satisfied and growing community, personally.

Luda · #44 05-05-2007, 07:51 AM

mooooreee screens :P

Ravenblade1979 · #45 05-05-2007, 05:41 PM

Wow your getting people. Good for you. That still won't change people's opinions on here. You are a person I wouldn't work for. I hated it when my family was in the Military because everything was run with precision and frankly I hate it now. I for one won't get AIM on my computer...oh look I automatically don't get hired. Boo hoo.

Regardless to what you may thing. A staff tag and RC access isn't payment for people taking their free time to help you make this server. In fact far from it. If you want to pay them then send them irl money for their time.

Look at me I am Events Master on Graal kingdoms (also owner of Misty Mug Tavern, Prince of Zormite) and part of Events Team on Zone, LAT for Graalopolis with RC access. Yes I have the tags but I am doing it on my own time. I am not getting paid to do it. So what makes you think that a staff tag and rc access constitutes payment?

Thrashsoul3 · #46 05-05-2007, 06:39 PM

I've seen all of new Delteria, it is indeed awesome. The only problem is there are no dedicated scripters to do all the backend work.

MKxTortoise · #47 05-06-2007, 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravenblade1979

Look at me I am Events Master on Graal kingdoms (also owner of Misty Mug Tavern, Prince of Zormite) and part of Events Team on Zone, LAT for Graalopolis with RC access. Yes I have the tags but I am doing it on my own time. I am not getting paid to do it. So what makes you think that a staff tag and rc access constitutes payment?

Unless you have extraordinarily masochistic tendencies, I would think the fact that you're accumulating volunteer responsibilities and tasks that you enjoy doing suggests you're getting payout in the forms of gratification, prestige, privileges, and fun. You might not be, but that implies bounded rationality on your part, and that's nothing I can reconcile logically.

Payment isn't always a paycheck. A lot of jobs also pay with benefits. A job on Delteria, or a job as a tavern owner, or a political office on Graal Kingdoms, or a staff job anywhere else, will pay you entirely with benefits. The benefits include but are not limited to a staff tag and RC.

The fact YOU don't think it's a good payoff or a payoff at call can be, as far as I can tell, attributed to one of two things. Firstly, you've accumulated similar benefits from working elsewhere, and as such are getting diminishing marginal returns for each tag, RC, right, etc. Alternatively, past experiences with similar payoffs have left you as a discouraged worker which similarly devalues for you, personally, the worth of a staff tag or RC. I have no information about the causality, but the fallacy here, and my overall point, is that you're suggesting RC, staff tag, and other opportunities aren't valid as payoffs when in fact they are. This is especially true in light of the fact I've had multiple applicants who would all very much like to work for Delteria.

Just because the RC and tag don't mean anything to you doesn't mean it's worthless to everyone else. Instead it just means you have no reason to apply for a job here.

killerogue · #48 05-06-2007, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MKxTortoise

long post

Out of curiosity, what do you major in college? I was curious about that.

Infernix · #49 05-06-2007, 02:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MKxTortoise

Is it that unreasonable to think that there may be people on this board reasonable enough to avoid this quagmire of stupidity and just went straight to my instant messenger like I requested? Wouldn't you know it - no! There are actually some people who are rational enough to do something totally insane like not complain about policy and instead give it a shot, working with it to see what happens.

I'm also curious as to what you would expect me to claim here. Are you expecting me to say "New Delteria will make Delteria one of the most mediocre servers ever!" or perhaps "Nothing is more average than a job on New Delteria!" I cannot follow your arguments about potential at all. A "good server" is something of a matter of opinion. I measure it in playercount. You might measure it in graphics, another person might measure it in script eloquence, yet another in server complexity, and a final person might take a look at community cohesion. All of these things are fine, but do you actually expect me to say something other than "the server I work for is ****ing awesome, and I think you should all jump in!"

I think you people would be surprised to see how well this thread actually worked. My quality assurance efforts, while clearly controversial, generated an interesting pool for talent. We're still looking for more, though, so anyone who want a job feel free to keep contacting me. As for the rest of you, if you'd like me to keep justifying my policy, keep asking me. It is not nearly as harsh as it seems and I stand by it. Ask yourself something, though: what do you think the policy is like on Graal Kingdoms? Unholy Nation? Even Zodiac to an extent, or Era? Zone? Compare it to the servers that are at the end of the day hidden away far, far beneath the playerlist that barely have a chance to breathe. Think about servers that failed - G3k, Bravo, Enigma, SL, Mithica, Damasca - then ask yourself why they failed.

More applicants for Delteria welcome! All skill sets considered assuming you meet our prerequisites.

Lol man, I don't care. You could just be a big man and ignore people.

And Im sure this thread will draw in the same damn people as always that you cant depend on.

Zideruic · #50 05-06-2007, 04:23 AM

Tortoise, I would love to help you guys but my only competence is in GFX, as for the other areas of development, I'm virtually retarded.

MKxTortoise · #51 05-06-2007, 06:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killerrogue

Out of curiosity, what do you major in college? I was curious about that.

Math and Economics, Philosophy Minor. School is Case Western Reserve, although I may transfer to Cornell since they accepted my application.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infernix

Lol man, I don't care. You could just be a big man and ignore people. And Im sure this thread will draw in the same damn people as always that you cant depend on.

Why would I ignore people when I could just answer their questions? A legitimate point IS being made, I think it deserves some of my attention, even if I am just going to argue against it. Personally I think it would look a LOT worse if I ignored all of the dissent here. What would that say about the type of administrator I am? No, I think I'll answer questions to the best of my ability, even if I'm ultimately going to be disagreed with. Developers of other MMOGs take this approach, so empirical evidence suggests that is what I should be doing too, even though the current model for global admins and other playerworld owners is to not address problems and concerns.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zideruic

Tortoise, I would love to help you guys but my only competence is in GFX, as for the other areas of development, I'm virtually retarded.

Tryout anyway, maybe it'll happen, maybe it wont. We've taken two people and rejected four so far, if you're curious.

Ravenblade1979 · #52 05-06-2007, 02:58 PM

Plain and simple your way may work but I for one wouldn't work under a tyrant such as you. Like i said originally that my parents once told me and you are basically saying it "It's my way or the highway".

So there are eager people....you better watch it. I have seen many a server staff go wrong with hiring eager people.

MKxTortoise · #53 05-07-2007, 12:17 AM

Yeah, the tyrannical Lord Tortoise has corrupted the Delteria Staff once again and is forcing them to do horrible things like projects that benefit and work in sync with other and even meet their deadlines. Will anyone ever stop this evil *******?!

I'm telling you, dude, if it was as bad as you're making it out to be no one would work for me and no one would apply. I've gotten two hires from seven applicants as of now. Survey says you're overreacting.

Infernix · #54 05-07-2007, 01:30 AM

I was going to crack on your business skills tort but Im sure youd come back and say you've taken the some of the top business classes and know exactly what your doing.

Eagle · #55 05-07-2007, 04:47 AM

Obviously someone who makes levels can script a door, or use addtiledef/2. You make it sound like you have to be a great artist, script everything we tell you to, and still major is the thing you do best.

Cloven · #56 05-07-2007, 05:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eagle

Obviously someone who makes levels can script a door, or use addtiledef/2. You make it sound like you have to be a great artist, script everything we tell you to, and still major is the thing you do best.

Not that I don't understand where you're coming from, but, having received thousands of tryouts for Delteria since 2000 I can assure you that an overwhelming majority of these people were inept where basic skills such as the ones you've mentioned were concerned. Perhaps the wording in his original post should've been better in this regard, but we're simply looking for some reliable help from people who at least know what they're doing well enough for it to be appealing in some sense.

zokemon · #57 05-07-2007, 07:35 AM

Hence the term "developer". If they wanted people who didn't have adequate knowledge in all fields, they wouldn't be looking for "developers". And knowledge in all fields doesn't mean you have to be able to actually use it.

Cloven · #58 05-07-2007, 08:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zokemon

Hence the term "developer". If they wanted people who didn't have adequate knowledge in all fields, they wouldn't looking for "developers". And knowledge in all fields doesn't mean you have to be able to actually use it.

Added the missing "be" in between [wouldn't] and [looking], and quoted for accuracy.

zokemon · #59 05-07-2007, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloven

Added the missing "be" in between [wouldn't] and [looking], and quoted for accuracy.

Oh wow, how did I miss that.
._.

Eagle · #60 05-07-2007, 12:48 PM

A Developer is simply anyone that can develop, regardless of field. It doesn't necessarily mean a specific thing anymore. =/

Ravenblade1979 · #61 05-07-2007, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloven

Perhaps the wording in his original post should've been better in this regard, but we're simply looking for some reliable help from people who at least know what they're doing well enough for it to be appealing in some sense.

Yeah wouldn't have gotten such a negative reaction if it was worded better.

Ravenblade1979 · #62 05-07-2007, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MKxTortoise

I'm telling you, dude, if it was as bad as you're making it out to be no one would work for me and no one would apply. I've gotten two hires from seven applicants as of now. Survey says you're overreacting.

Your coming off as really harsh...thats why I am saying what I am. I am sure you are the nicest person in the world but your post made you seem like a tyrant and your further posts just make me think that your pompous. Your no better then me, nor am I any better then anyone else. So get off your high horse, repost the hiring thread and word it a bit differently.

Cloven · #63 05-07-2007, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravenblade1979

Your coming off as really harsh...thats why I am saying what I am. I am sure you are the nicest person in the world but your post made you seem like a tyrant and your further posts just make me think that your pompous. Your no better then me, nor am I any better then anyone else. So get off your high horse, repost the hiring thread and word it a bit differently.

I don't really think creating a duplicate thread is necessary. The mature thing for everybody to do would be to accept that some things were mistated, as I've said previously, and that our intentions are purely to release something enjoyable for everybody to play on June 1st. As the Co-Manager, I would like to see everybody forget about petty things like this and say again, I would appreciate any help you or anybody else for that matter could provide.
Thanks.

MKxTortoise · #64 05-07-2007, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravenblade1979

Your coming off as really harsh...thats why I am saying what I am. I am sure you are the nicest person in the world but your post made you seem like a tyrant and your further posts just make me think that your pompous. Your no better then me, nor am I any better then anyone else. So get off your high horse, repost the hiring thread and word it a bit differently.

You can't call me pompous then expect me to make a new thread just to appease you. If you think I am harsh talk to some people in the "real world." It is a terrible and fairly ridiculous perspective to put it in, but come on. If you're honestly so displeased, both Cloven and I have said some things were overstated in the original post.

I don't really see the negative reaction here. I filled both of the positions I needed to. Yeah, some egos got bruised, but I don't think you were even going to apply to work for us anyway. I think you'll live?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eagle

Obviously someone who makes levels can script a door, or use addtiledef/2. You make it sound like you have to be a great artist, script everything we tell you to, and still major is the thing you do best.

I think I'm pretty clear about what "competency" is in my first post..

Quote:

Originally Posted by Infernix

I was going to crack on your business skills tort but Im sure youd come back and say you've taken the some of the top business classes and know exactly what your doing.

I'm more interested as to why you'd want to "crack on my business skills" in the first place. Especially in light of the fact that this hiring thread attracted two very, very talented and intelligent developers, increased awareness about Delteria, and more or less did everything I wanted it to.

The people with hurt feelings here are the people who were too underqualified to get the job in the first place, or the people who were never planning on applying anyway. There even seems to be a bit of crossover: people who did not read my ten bullet-points about being qualified and got angry over it.

I just see my quality assurance methods as successful. They did EXACTLY what I wanted them to. I could not be happier with the two people I hired.

I'm willing to admit some things were stated wrong but to imply I've handled the entire situation badly is unfounded and I'd love to see you try to support that notion logically, if only for the novelty. Also, your insinuation that I hide behind my education implies a bit of prejudice against it, and perhaps the false belief that I think education directly correlates with skill and experience. I would question your beliefs about me before speaking further, because misinformation and misguided beliefs will not get you anywhere. Feel free to take a second shot at me, but I'd rather you did something more productive... like apply for a job at Delteria. Or not apply, at your discretion. But why come in here starting fights and criticizing aspects of my job when you have never tried to do it yourself? Doesn't that imply for certain a lack of experience on YOUR part, whereas in my case you only THINK I lack experience? In that light I find what you're saying to be extremely unfounded and even more unproductive. So before you "crack on my business skills," maybe think about why you're choosing to do it in the first place.

Ravenblade1979 · #65 05-07-2007, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MKxTortoise

You can't call me pompous then expect me to make a new thread just to appease you. If you think I am harsh talk to some people in the "real world." It is a terrible and fairly ridiculous perspective to put it in, but come on. If you're honestly so displeased, both Cloven and I have said some things were overstated in the original post.

Why do you keep talking. Yes it does make you seem pompous..even your replies aren't neccessary...as far as I am concerned you got your people so just stop replying to people plain and simple. Talk to people IRL....lol thats all i do Tortoise. I know how harsh people can be. As far as I am concerned this thread should be closed as they hired the ppl they wanted.

I do however love the server.

Zideruic · #66 05-07-2007, 09:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ravenblade1979

Why do you keep talking. Yes it does make you seem pompous..even your replies aren't neccessary...as far as I am concerned you got your people so just stop replying to people plain and simple. Talk to people IRL....lol thats all i do Tortoise. I know how harsh people can be. As far as I am concerned this thread should be closed as they hired the ppl they wanted.

I do however love the server.

Go....away.

Ravenblade1979 · #67 05-07-2007, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zideruic

Go....away.

Make me

but seriously can someone close the topic..they hired who they needed.

MKxTortoise · #68 05-07-2007, 11:28 PM

Well, Ravenblade, both Cloven and I have some interest in any potential talent that may happen along this thread in the near future. Until that time I'll keep answering questions or replying to insults.

I'm not going to let you insult my methods if I believe they are correct. Feel free to propose a reason as to why I am bad, but make sure it's based in reality.

Let me also say this: as far as I am concerned you are trolling my thread. You never intended to apply, like many others you are here solely to criticize my methods. That's fine if that's your style, but honestly, don't make an ass out of yourself then ask me to apologize for your irrational behavior.

Anyway, anyone else with talent, particularly in scripting, and with knowledge or experience in the other domains, feel free to contact Cloven or me.

DustyPorViva · #69 05-07-2007, 11:36 PM

Well, not to criticize, but you said to apply, contact you via e-mail or aim, not through this thread. So us not applying in this thread isn't really 'off-topic' as you never intended us to.

MKxTortoise · #70 05-07-2007, 11:41 PM

Good semantic argument, I guess, if you overlook the last sentence of my first post. This thread was basically designed around questions.

It's not that much skin off my back, really. In fact, the more he trolls, the more interesting this thread gets. The more readers this thread has increases the probability of someone applying for a job. Maybe they'll even get one! Ten applicants as of now, 2 taken 8 rejected. We'll still review people who show a high level of interest.

killerogue · #71 05-08-2007, 03:23 AM

Gotta post this one.

Ravenblade, just shut the hell up already. Both Cloven and Tort have admited that some of things Tort stated in his original post was a bit "over-zealous" for lack of a better word.

Geez, what is your issue that you continue to pursue the damn argument? Let it go. If all you do is talk to people irl then this is plain pitiful for you to continue to argue this down with Tort because there's no point to it besides increasing your own oversized ego. <- In response to him telling a mod to close this and it isn't his thread.