Im making graal...

theHAWKER · #1 03-11-2007, 09:20 AM

If i am making graal a cool game, should we be getting payed?

napo_p2p · #2 03-11-2007, 09:24 AM

No. In fact, you're the one paying to use Graal's game engine.

killerogue · #3 03-11-2007, 09:32 AM

How about correcting your grammar please?

Also, there are some globals getting paid, or were. Regular players don't HAVE to do this so they don't HAVE to pay us. Ever think about that?

Googi · #4 03-11-2007, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killerogue

Also, there are some globals getting paid

I hope not. Globals contribute far less to Graal than the development talent does.

Anyways, it isn't fiscally feasible for Graal to pay developers, so you don't get paid.

smirt362 · #5 03-11-2007, 09:45 AM

Part of the fun of Graal is creating your own content and seeing your ideas come to life. So why would they pay you for that?

Crono · #6 03-11-2007, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smirt362

Part of the fun of Graal is creating your own content and seeing your ideas come to life. So why would they pay you for that?

...think about what you just said. Who made UN, Zodiac, Era, Delteria, Valikorlia, Npulse, Atlantis, and the original Zone? Not Graal Online, it was players.

Obviously Graal Online is making money off of the people behind these servers. I'm not saying people should be payed to develop, I'm just saying thats what they should be payed for if theres any reason.

Quote:

I hope not. Globals contribute far less to Graal than the development talent does.

Only the GM gets payed, I think thats Ibonic at the moment. Before it was Spark.

Sam · #7 03-11-2007, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smirt362

Part of the fun of Graal is creating your own content and seeing your ideas come to life. So why would they pay you for that?

Yes, you are right. Nobody force somebody to develop anything you do it because you want to do it.

Elk · #8 03-11-2007, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theHAWKER

If i am making graal a cool game, should we be getting payed?

You could try to sell it to cyberjouers

Admins · #9 03-11-2007, 02:51 PM

The calculation is simple: the money people pay for playing your server minus hosting minus administration minus developing the server minus developing the client minus providing website for download and forums for communication = means right now it's not possible to pay anything to people doing content for a server. If you enjoy making Graal games in your spar time then do it, if you feel like you need to be payed and don't enjoy making the content then don't do it.

Elk · #10 03-11-2007, 02:55 PM

go stefan go :P

BigBear3 · #11 03-11-2007, 02:56 PM

Sauced!

Devil · #12 03-11-2007, 03:03 PM

Lol Stefan is actually correct, ah well, pwnt.

Sum41Freeeeek · #13 03-11-2007, 03:08 PM

If your server is successful enough and you make it onto classic, I believe you don't have to pay money for the server, so I guess that would be better than nothing :O

smirt362 · #14 03-11-2007, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerami

...think about what you just said. Who made UN, Zodiac, Era, Delteria, Valikorlia, Npulse, Atlantis, and the original Zone? Not Graal Online, it was players.

Obviously Graal Online is making money off of the people behind these servers. I'm not saying people should be payed to develop, I'm just saying thats what they should be payed for if theres any reason.

Not only would they lose money if they paid people, but those others didn't have to create content. That's just part of the game, besides Second Life and Furcadia don't pay their players to make content...and thats all they basically have.

Felix_Xenophobe · #15 03-11-2007, 06:23 PM

i want money 4 my good (rly good i meen) gfxis! if i spend many times 4 do gfxis i ern myself irl money i think you should payment!!!!!!!!!!!!

Crono · #16 03-11-2007, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smirt362

Not only would they lose money if they paid people, but those others didn't have to create content. That's just part of the game, besides Second Life and Furcadia don't pay their players to make content...and thats all they basically have.

I know.

theHAWKER · #17 03-11-2007, 08:45 PM

But, if we stoped making stuff for graal, no one would play, no one would buy t-shirts, no one would buy mugs, on one would buy p2p, no one would play...

Crono · #18 03-11-2007, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theHAWKER

But, if we stoped making stuff for graal, no one would play, no one would buy t-shirts, no one would buy mugs, on one would buy p2p, no one would play...

How the hell do you think Graal started?

And how many people actually buy shirts/mugs to begin with? Also people would just move to classic/GK/Zone.

Googi · #19 03-11-2007, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan

The calculation is simple: the money people pay for playing your server minus hosting minus administration minus developing the server minus developing the client minus providing website for download and forums for communication = means right now it's not possible to pay anything to people doing content for a server. If you enjoy making Graal games in your spar time then do it, if you feel like you need to be payed and don't enjoy making the content then don't do it.

So stop paying Ibonic (if you are paying him).

killerogue · #20 03-11-2007, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theHAWKER

But, if we stoped making stuff for graal, no one would play, no one would buy t-shirts, no one would buy mugs, on one would buy p2p, no one would play...

Even if all developers just stopped. People would still play. New people would still come.

Alot of what you're saying just isn't sensible.

Minoc · #21 03-11-2007, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Googi

So stop paying Ibonic (if you are paying him).

Ibonic is unique.

Sage_Shadowbane · #22 03-12-2007, 12:01 AM

I wonder... Does it cost Stefan money to have all of these servers up... And if not, than why do we have to pay him to help him make more money? It really doesn't make any sense to me.

napo_p2p · #23 03-12-2007, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sage_Shadowbane

I wonder... Does it cost Stefan money to have all of these servers up...

Of course it does...

Angel_Light · #24 03-12-2007, 12:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felix_Xenophobe

i want money 4 my good (rly good i meen) gfxis! if i spend many times 4 do gfxis i ern myself irl money i think you should payment!!!!!!!!!!!!

What? Type real words... Your never going to get paid with that grammar. :o

syltburk · #25 03-12-2007, 12:30 AM

i have 5 mugs

Googi · #26 03-12-2007, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minoc

Ibonic is unique.

Unique because he's the only one getting paid? He's a good guy, no doubt, but it's not like he's so vital to Graal that paying him is justified.

Crono · #27 03-12-2007, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sage_Shadowbane

I wonder... Does it cost Stefan money to have all of these servers up... And if not, than why do we have to pay him to help him make more money? It really doesn't make any sense to me.

No, it costs CJ aka unixmad.

Quote:

Unique because he's the only one getting paid? He's a good guy, no doubt, but it's not like he's so vital to Graal that paying him is justified.

Googi no matter how much you make sense and no matter how strong your argument is, it wont have an effect.

Googi · #28 03-12-2007, 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerami

Googi no matter how much you make sense and no matter how strong your argument is, it wont have an effect.

It is better to be Socrates dissatisfied than a fool satisfied, fool.

Torankusu · #29 03-12-2007, 04:26 AM

sometime's it's not about money, it's more about the cause and the fun.

Shotoo2 · #30 03-12-2007, 05:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan

If you enjoy making Graal games in your spar time then do it

But I enjoy sparring during my spar time.

Minoc · #31 03-12-2007, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Googi

Unique because he's the only one getting paid? He's a good guy, no doubt, but it's not like he's so vital to Graal that paying him is justified.

Unique because his job is different, you can't compare him to regular developers or global admins that hardly do anything.

CidNight1142 · #32 03-12-2007, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan

The calculation is simple: the money people pay for playing your server minus hosting minus administration minus developing the server minus developing the client minus providing website for download and forums for communication = means right now it's not possible to pay anything to people doing content for a server. If you enjoy making Graal games in your spar time then do it, if you feel like you need to be payed and don't enjoy making the content then don't do it.

Its nice to see the truth instead of a guilt trip. How many times have we been told that we're being greedy or not really enjoying the spirit of the game.

Here Stefan lays the real truth down:
We Can't Afford It.

Crono · #33 03-12-2007, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Googi

It is better to be Socrates dissatisfied than a fool satisfied, fool.

It's better not being a failure, which is what your attempts were.

SymboniaX · #34 03-12-2007, 07:27 PM

Show some respect to CJ please.

I got this same sort of argument on World of Warcraft. They would bring a new patch out that was tested live, seem'd to work fine. They launch it, and some servers crash. The wow forums get cluttered with people like littlerly freaking right out, demanding money for the downtime.

Retarded if you ask me, World of Warcraft took how long to develope? And it is generally a wicked game.

Same thing right here, I dont see how anyone could expect to get paid to make a playerworld. Do you guys have any idea how much hosting costs are? I mean, Im sure Graal doesnt use that much bandwith, but when you times that per client that is on, it does add up quiet a bit.

Not just that, how many hours did Stefan spend developing the game? So all of you could enjoy playing it. The fees for Graal arnt that bad either, I think this thread should be just closed.

Those are my thoughts, :P

Googi · #35 03-12-2007, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minoc

Unique because his job is different, you can't compare him to regular developers or global admins that hardly do anything.

We can compare them in terms of how much they contribute to Graal and how vital they are to Graal. In neither case is paying Ibonic justified.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gerami

It's better not being a failure, which is what your attempts were.

You seem to think that the only definition of success is the achievement of the inferred objective (or stated objective, though I don't usually clearly state an objective). If this were the case then I wouldn't try, or I would try to accomplish things through becoming staff, or something. In attempting I can develop my ability and build a respectable name for myself. The attempt has inherent value regardless of whether or not the most apparent objective is achieved.

Here's a better way of putting it: Back in 2002/2003 I "took on" Kaimetsu a few times and got my ass handed to me, but those experiences were also some of the most important in my life. Would I have been "better off" had I not made these attempts simply because they ended in "failure"?

Minoc · #36 03-12-2007, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Googi

We can compare them in terms of how much they contribute to Graal and how vital they are to Graal. In neither case is paying Ibonic justified.

I highly doubt there is another staff member who is more vital to Graal than Ibonic.

DustyPorViva · #37 03-12-2007, 11:18 PM

Are you making Graal, or is Graal making you.

Googi · #38 03-12-2007, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Minoc

I highly doubt there is another staff member who is more vital to Graal than Ibonic.

By "vital" I'm not referring to the vitality of his positions, but rather to the fact that his positions could be filled by another person (or group of people) who would work for free without major damage being done to Graal.

Inspiration · #39 03-13-2007, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Googi

By "vital" I'm not referring to the vitality of his positions, but rather to the fact that his positions could be filled by another person (or group of people) who would work for free without major damage being done to Graal.

Yeah, Graal has a pretty good track record of people in high positions working hard, treating others fairly, and not being corrupt.

Crono · #40 03-13-2007, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Googi

You seem to think that the only definition of success is the achievement of the inferred objective (or stated objective, though I don't usually clearly state an objective). If this were the case then I wouldn't try, or I would try to accomplish things through becoming staff, or something. In attempting I can develop my ability and build a respectable name for myself. The attempt has inherent value regardless of whether or not the most apparent objective is achieved.

You could have summed it up as "i dont really care if i accomplish anything, i just wanna own stefan verbally because im right"

Quote:

Would I have been "better off" had I not made these attempts simply because they ended in "failure"?

What were the arguments about?