New battle system

Googi · #1 03-03-2007, 10:15 PM

You can use the new battle system in Bogenera arena. Speed gets nerfed big time while ac/wc are made pretty much obsolete. Bows seem to be the big winner in the new system. Swords/daggers are the big loser. It's also a little bit easier to cast fast spells (i.e. bullets) unless your opponent is using a bow.

Waltz5 · #2 03-03-2007, 10:28 PM

What I gather:
1. Prepping weapons is a waste of diamonds.
2. AC, Str +, Dex +, and Dam + are basically negligible.
3. Heavy Rods are quite valuable now.
4. Screw everything else, and get 30 Con.

Draenin · #3 03-03-2007, 10:52 PM

Prepping weapons unbalanced things a lot to begin with, same for AC ratings. Take having -80 WC at level 20 as a good example.

As for heavy rods, that's more of a product of the fact that the casting times weren't fixed to begin with.

Googi · #4 03-03-2007, 11:18 PM

I don't see how heavy rods are more valuable than they were before.

Draenin · #5 03-03-2007, 11:36 PM

They aren't, really, but people will believe anything they're told nowadays it seems.

Waltz5 · #6 03-04-2007, 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draenin

They aren't, really, but people will believe anything they're told nowadays it seems.

Try running after Ed when he's using his rods (not normal casting).

protozero · #7 03-04-2007, 12:17 AM

I really don't like this new system. It's not even whatso ever in the arena, that's mostly fine. But outside the arena in Battle mode, I don't like the fact that the whole point of me having a dagger is rendered obsolete. I use to liek taking chances double slashing with my dagger sometimes landed double hits at the cost of reduced range, but now Daggers are pointless, might as well burn my Ice Dagger and use my Tainted Grace from now on.

Googi · #8 03-04-2007, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waltz5

Try running after Ed when he's using his rods (not normal casting).

I have and don't really find it difficult. The spells do very little to slow you down. Chasing is only hard because of the speed nerf.

MasterNuke · #9 03-04-2007, 01:32 AM

I still run slower than you. The only difference is that your ridiculous speed won't cause you to miss me when you catch up to me. Except I can't mitigate damage dealt by weapons with resistances anymore. So I'm taking full damage while my magic is still doing reduced damage due to resistances... that is if I actually get an opportunity to cast.

smirt362 · #10 03-04-2007, 04:01 AM

Wouldn't it make more sense to have each weapon have it's pro's and con's and balance it all out? Or even have some sort of rock/paper/scissors sort of thing where one mode of attack has an advantage over another mode of attack.

Draenin · #11 03-04-2007, 04:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smirt362

Wouldn't it make more sense to have each weapon have it's pro's and con's and balance it all out? Or even have some sort of rock/paper/scissors sort of thing where one mode of attack has an advantage over another mode of attack.

Ah, the so-often-praised concept of the weapon triangle returns.

cyan3 · #12 03-04-2007, 09:10 PM

This new pvp system is stupid now most of my stats can't really be used anymore.

Gothika · #13 03-04-2007, 09:16 PM

This new system is totally pointless. The only thing we need about it is the Knockback system.
Why they have nerfed speed? I havn't got a clue. NO ONE, No one at all has complained about speed in battle making people too good.

Draenin · #14 03-04-2007, 09:22 PM

It would be nice to have speed set exactly the same for everyone, but at least a little faster. The pace it's set at now is really sluggish for dodging attacks or outrunning magic / arrows. Magic and arrows move way too fast with respect to the players now.

pooper200000 · #15 03-04-2007, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draenin

It would be nice to have speed set exactly the same for everyone, but at least a little faster. The pace it's set at now is really sluggish for dodging attacks or outrunning magic / arrows. Magic and arrows move way too fast with respect to the players now.

3.0 speed sounds likea g odo one fast but not like insanely you can still get messed up and then it makes it worthwile for rings...

Draenin · #16 03-04-2007, 09:24 PM

Players move barely below three speed right now, or at it. Four or five would be ideal, because I know you can outrun magic at five for a fact.

Gothika · #17 03-04-2007, 09:29 PM

Mage's and Archer's depened on speed to survie. Now they don't need too because everyone moves so slow, That they get hit by every spell and arrow.

cyan3 · #18 03-04-2007, 09:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draenin

Players move barely below three speed right now, or at it. Four or five would be ideal, because I know you can outrun magic at five for a fact.

I don't mind if the speed was lower but not as low as it is now.

Deophite18 · #19 03-04-2007, 11:01 PM

Obviously heavy rods are overpowered. People with multiple ones who have them hotkeyed can just run and spam them over and over and its unlikely they will be caught before you are dead. There needs to be a delay time for heavy rods after each cast even if its a different one. Stefan said he was going to nerf them anyways he just didnt have time.

Admins · #20 03-04-2007, 11:22 PM

Yes the heavy rods will be changed to not do instant casting (still faster than normal casting but not instant). The speed in fighting was not only a problem for magic, it was also making it harder for archers, so at the end only melee fighters with good speed and top stats were able to do anything. That's why the speed has been reduced a little bit, we can still change it to balance it more.

Tigairius · #21 03-04-2007, 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan

Yes the heavy rods will be changed to not do instant casting (still faster than normal casting but not instant). The speed in fighting was not only a problem for magic, it was also making it harder for archers, so at the end only melee fighters with good speed and top stats were able to do anything. That's why the speed has been reduced a little bit, we can still change it to balance it more.

Those items cost a lot to get though, not everyone can get good speed and top stats so quickly.

Draenin · #22 03-04-2007, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan

That's why the speed has been reduced a little bit, we can still change it to balance it more.

Please change the speed so that arrows and magic can be dodged, provided the user has quick reflexes.

MasterNuke · #23 03-04-2007, 11:33 PM

The problem with rods isn't the ability to spam them. The problem is that a previous change raised the base damage of spells. Rods operate at very low levels... so most of the damage dealt is base damage.

But... here's another thing. There are methods to reduce pretty much ALL spell damage to near zero.

Without rods or weapons, mages are completely helpless in combat in arenas currently.

Deophite, please don't go whining about rods wrecking the crap out of you if you run around with negative magic resist.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draenin

Please change the speed so that arrows and magic can be dodged, provided the user has quick reflexes.

So now people want speed crazy physique based people to mitigate spell damage, be able to block it, AND be able to dodge it completely? Meanwhile, the mage has to SIT THERE TO CAST SPELLS THAT WON'T DO ANYTHING ANYWAY?

Edit: Hah. Post 1337.

I don't see why magic and rods need to be nerfed more if the only people that complain are people that walk around with zero or less magic resist.

Draenin · #24 03-04-2007, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterNuke

So now people want speed crazy physique based people to mitigate spell damage, be able to block it, AND be able to dodge it completely?

My character is a mage as well, so I'm not making the suggestion to nerf magic in any way. However, I am also not thrilled with the fact that since everyone is the same speed now, it's very hard to get spells to even fire off sometimes.

By no means do I think magic should be blockable except by antimagic spells like counterwall and so on. But as for the dodging aspect, fights should not be determined by who will spam magic bullet fastest.

MasterNuke · #25 03-05-2007, 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draenin

My character is a mage as well, so I'm not making the suggestion to nerf magic in any way. However, I am also not thrilled with the fact that since everyone is the same speed now, it's very hard to get spells to even fire off sometimes.

By no means do I think magic should be blockable except by antimagic spells like counterwall and so on. But as for the dodging aspect, fights should not be determined by who will spam magic bullet fastest.

Everyone is not at the same speed. Speed still gives a scaled down bonus in arenas.

Counterwall has a long as hell cast time. Thus it is not an option.

Please think your ideas a little more throughly. If you give dodging speed to everyone, that includes physique crazy people.

Draenin · #26 03-05-2007, 12:03 AM

Yes, I know that. I'm saying to synch speeds for everyone and set it at a faster rate.

Admins · #27 03-05-2007, 12:32 AM

So we should do following changes ?

- increase speed slightly
- make daggers and magic push people less far
- let ac and wc have slightly more impact
- change heavy rods so that they don't cast instantly or at least reduce their base damage

The speed seems to a big problem - it could be made configurable by kingdom leaders when they turn the kingdom island into battleground

MasterNuke · #28 03-05-2007, 12:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan

- increase speed slightly

Sounds fine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan

- make daggers and magic push people less far

Some sort of lunge attack for daggers would be cool. But that's fine. Only some magic spells shouldn't push as far... like firebolt and frostbolt.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan

- let ac and wc have slightly more impact

Agreed. Currently, there's absolutely no reason to wear anything but resist gear, speed gear, or health gear.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan

- change heavy rods so that they don't cast instantly or at least reduce their base damage

Reduced base damage should be fine enough. but slightly increase damage from additional magic levels.

But... what is going to be done about mages not being able to pull off any spell at all in combat? Perhaps make some spells a lot faster? I'd like to see create earth wall, create fire wall, create frost wall, create pool of chaos, counterwall, and counterspell made much much faster for defensive purposes.

Side note: Counterwall/counterspell should not work on prayers.

SayianOozaru · #29 03-05-2007, 12:46 AM

Uhhh. I've seen you GK guys complain about wanting a "Kingdom Fighting System" for maybe 2-3 years now. Now that Stefan takes his time to create one, you guys complain about it. So you guys want one, but only if it has "god like" stats, is that right?

Nothing is really going to change. Everyone's going to be having the exact same speed, doing the exact same damage (if i read that right), with the exact same resistances (if i read that right).

I think it was better before, when everyone had different stats. Now it's just going to matter on who's got the fastest connection, or who doesn't lag as much as the other guy. x-x

MasterNuke · #30 03-05-2007, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SayianOozaru

Uhhh. I've seen you GK guys complain about wanting a "Kingdom Fighting System" for maybe 2-3 years now. Now that Stefan takes his time to create one, you guys complain about it. So you guys want one, but only if it has "god like" stats, is that right?

Nothing is really going to change. Everyone's going to be having the exact same speed, doing the exact same damage (if i read that right), with the exact same resistances (if i read that right).

I think it was better before, when everyone had different stats. Now it's just going to matter on who's got the fastest connection, or who doesn't lag as much as the other guy. x-x

You can't expect something to be perfect when it gets implemented without full play testing.

Gothika · #31 03-05-2007, 01:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan

That's why the speed has been reduced a little bit.

A little bit? My speed is 6.133 and In battle it's around 3.5

SayianOozaru · #32 03-05-2007, 01:17 AM

See, this is what I mean. You guys want a "Kingdom Battle System" for wars, but you expect to keep the stats your items already give you, because you payed "alot" for them. Well here's a hint. Don't go paying 3-4 RoW's for an item that has the same stats as one that you could buy for 100-500 diamonds. I'm not sure why you guys do that, but it's not my problem.

Stefan added the system to balance alot of things out. One of them was speed. Some people go up in speed, and some people go down. It's to balance things out. Stop complaining about those little things. I'm sure it's just you guys that have been here for awhile and have all the "rare" items that are complaining, because now a "newb" with a bow can beat you. If that's the case than go grab a bow. Don't sit here and complain about "oh my dagger dont work" or "magic is killing me now". Magic is supposed to kill people. You shouldn't be able to outrun it. If magic were to be real, I'm sure you would never here about "did you hear john got away from that magic by running".

You guys complain to much about the simpilest things. I'm just gonna stop my post here, and see if any of you are smart enough to catch on, and see what you guys are trying to have happen. (lvl 6 in battle mode during a kingdom war having maybe 2-3 power up items, but having 5.0 speed, -50 ac, and -50 wc.

)

MasterNuke · #33 03-05-2007, 01:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gothika

A little bit? My speed is 6.133 and In battle it's around 3.5

What do you think 2.166 speed drops down to?

Gothika · #34 03-05-2007, 01:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterNuke

What do you think 2.166 speed drops down to?

You'd be stuck to one spot. You'd have minus speed.

smirt362 · #35 03-05-2007, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterNuke

What do you think 2.166 speed drops down to?

1.05?

Draenin · #36 03-05-2007, 02:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaiyanOozaru

Uhhh. I've seen you GK guys complain about wanting a "Kingdom Fighting System" for maybe 2-3 years now. Now that Stefan takes his time to create one, you guys complain about it. So you guys want one, but only if it has "god like" stats, is that right?

We're not really trying to complain. Just pointing out what's wrong before the system is finalized, because it usually takes a while for old systems to be touched up on later.

Deophite18 · #37 03-05-2007, 03:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterNuke

Deophite, please don't go whining about rods wrecking the crap out of you if you run around with negative magic resist.

I don't see why magic and rods need to be nerfed more if the only people that complain are people that walk around with zero or less magic resist.

I didnt say a word about the magic damage. What i was getting at was you can simply cast over and over and over and combined with knockback people can evade you easily until they kill you with the rods. Quit trying to start **** with me. You know just as well as i do rods casting time with knockback is an unfair advantage. I dont care about damage its the fact that everyone is same speed and you cant catch them. I have almost 6 speed when not in an arena but i have a hard time catching someone who spams me with rods in arena who has less that 5 speed outside. The problem is not the damage it is the casting time. There needs to be a delay....period

Googi · #38 03-05-2007, 04:06 AM

If you're going to reduce speed, it should be something like "take 33% off of everybody's speed", not a hard cap.

Cubical · #39 03-05-2007, 09:33 AM

AC is stupid anyways o.O it shouldn't be that you can't kill someone because you can't even hit them. But it should be based off your physical level and how good you are.

MasterNuke · #40 03-05-2007, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deophite18

I didnt say a word about the magic damage. What i was getting at was you can simply cast over and over and over and combined with knockback people can evade you easily until they kill you with the rods. Quit trying to start **** with me. You know just as well as i do rods casting time with knockback is an unfair advantage. I dont care about damage its the fact that everyone is same speed and you cant catch them. I have almost 6 speed when not in an arena but i have a hard time catching someone who spams me with rods in arena who has less that 5 speed outside. The problem is not the damage it is the casting time. There needs to be a delay....period

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterNuke

Everyone is not at the same speed. Speed still gives a scaled down bonus in arenas.

The problem is... giving rods a before-cast delay will just make them entirely pointless. It's the "Sitting Duck" aspect that regular spell casting already has. So just giving it a delay won't solve the problem.

And sorry... I assumed it was damage because I was two-shotting other people with rods yesterday.