Zodiac GUI

[Gambet]

Originally Posted by coreys

Actually you worked at Maloria for the first about a month and a half of me working there. And Yen isn't "feeding" me anything, because I don't talk to him. Noob. And just so you know, I worked on Zodiac from the time it started when Zeus bought it. Even though it was a steaming pile of crap back then, because we were all noobs, it was still better than what it is now.

And you think its soooo impressive that you because the head of development on Maloria, hmm? Yeah, I did that too. It's nothing too impressive.

The difference between the time that I was Head of Development and the time that you were Head of Development was that Maloria prospered when I ran the position.

I don't believe I need to point out anything else except Maloria's playercount when I speak about your time being Head of Development.

[Infernix]

Originally Posted by Gambet

Because we have bad history together and therefore you base your assumptions on your personal bias towards me.


Anyone else need any explanations?

Well yea, but I'm trying to hold my forum bans to 1 every 3 months.

[Gambet]

Originally Posted by Infernix

Well yea, but I'm trying to hold my forum bans to 1 every 3 months.

Thus proving that you lack any logical reasoning as to why Zodiac v2 will fail.



Though of course this could be considered Zodiac v3, I guess, since there was Zodiac before Yen, Zodiac with Yen, and now Zodiac after Yen.


Whatever, call it what you'd like.

[coreys]

Originally Posted by Gambet

The difference between the time that I was Head of Development and the time that you were Head of Development was that Maloria prospered when I ran the position.

I don't believe I need to point out anything else except Maloria's playercount when I speak about your time being Head of Development.

I didn't become Head Developer until well after the playercount dropped. And you say it prospered, huh? Well when I played Maloria about a year and a half ago it had an average playercount of about 80 people. When I came back (you were Head Dev at the time) its average playercount was half that. And almost every "system" or addition you made was either useless, was never used, or was massively bugged.

[Gambet]

Originally Posted by coreys

I didn't become Head Developer until well after the playercount dropped. And you say it prospered, huh? Well when I played Maloria about a year and a half ago it had an average playercount of about 80 people. When I came back (you were Head Dev at the time) its average playercount was half that. And almost every "system" or addition you made was either useless, was never used, or was massively bugged.

Back up your statements with proof, because nothing I released was bugged (if it was I'd fix the bugs, obviously), everything I released was used, and the playercount was not at an average of 40, in fact, Maloria actually posed great competition to the upcoming Zodiac.

Zodiac became so popular because when I left, nobody picked up after me since I had scripted just about everything in my 8 month period since most of the staff had either left or had just logged on to chat and idle.

So what happened after? Maloria died and now v3 seems hopeless since from what I read around the forums, the v3 staff are not dedicated enough.

[Infernix]

Originally Posted by Gambet

Thus proving that you lack any logical reasoning as to why Zodiac v2 will fail.



Though of course this could be considered Zodiac v3, I guess, since there was Zodiac before Yen, Zodiac with Yen, and now Zodiac after Yen.


Whatever, call it what you'd like.

Lol, its funny how you took that so seriously. I was obviously making a joke. This is the 3rd time you've proven to be ignorant in 1 day while talking to me. Why don't you take your time and read some of the "Logical" stuff Ive said. In fact why don't you read my post relating to history. Its funny how you believe that in every possible way you are right and everyone is wrong. You don't think one person in this thread has made a strong point except yourself. Arrogant as well as ignorant I see.

[Gambet]

Originally Posted by Infernix

Lol, its funny how you took that so seriously. I was obviously making a joke. This is the 3rd time you've proven to be ignorant in 1 day while talking to me. Why don't you take your time and read some of the "Logical" stuff Ive said. In fact why don't you read my post relating to history. Its funny how you believe that in every possible way you are right and everyone is wrong. You don't think one person in this thread has made a strong point except yourself. Arrogant as well as ignorant I see.

I didn't take that post seriously, I took it for what it was; I took it for what you are.


Everyones arguments revolve around Zodiac failing because we don't have YEN. Yeah, that's great, we havn't had Yen upload anything to Zodiac for about a month now (excluding the corrupt Yen clone), and has Zodiac suffered? It's number 2 on the serverlist as we speak.

[coreys]

Originally Posted by Infernix

Arrogant as well as ignorant I see.

Exactly what I said.

And Gambet, almost no-one used any of those NPC's you made, your NW system was extremely glitchy, it seems almost every system you made required that the server be restarted otherwise all hell would break loose.

[Infernix]

Originally Posted by Gambet

I didn't take that post seriously, I took it for what it was; I took it for what you are.


Everyones arguments revolve around Zodiac failing because we don't have YEN. Yeah, that's great, we havn't had Yen upload anything to Zodiac for about a month now (excluding the corrupt Yen clone), and has Zodiac suffered? It's number 2 on the serverlist as we speak.

1.What I am? You don't even know who I am yet alone cant talk about what I am other than human.
2.Did not take my post seriously, and took it for what it was? I'm guessing thats why you responded to it in a manner that it was not.

My argument does not resolve around Zodiac failing, but resolves around you taking the wrong direction. O and stop speaking of Yen as if this about Yen. This is about you and your work with Zodiac. Not Maloria and not Yen.

[Gambet]

Originally Posted by coreys

Exactly what I said.

And Gambet, almost no-one used any of those NPC's you made, your NW system was extremely glitchy, it seems almost every system you made required that the server be restarted otherwise all hell would break loose.

Maloria is GS1, and I worked on Maloria ages ago.

I don't script in GS1 at all anymore, I just script in GS2.

Once again, you don't know me, you just base your assumptions based on the crap that the Maloria staff is feeding you, and don't tell me that you don't because your simply stating the same bullcrap that I've argued with over them endlessly before.

The same exact points all shot down by me. It gets old, really. Especially when they come from people that know nothing about me.

Originally Posted by Infernix

My argument does not resolve around Zodiac failing, but resolves around you taking the wrong direction.

Yes, because you know all about what new Zodiac will be about so you can assume right off the bar that we're going the wrong direction with this?

By all means please tell me, because I don't even know the full set of details of what we're going to do, since we havn't worked it all out yet.

Of course, that doesn't mean we havn't discussed a few things already, but we havn't worked it all out yet.

[Skrobo2]

Originally Posted by Gambet

Back up your statements with proof, because nothing I released was bugged (if it was I'd fix the bugs, obviously), everything I released was used, and the playercount was not at an average of 40, in fact, Maloria actually posed great competition to the upcoming Zodiac.

Zodiac became so popular because when I left, nobody picked up after me since I had scripted just about everything in my 8 month period since most of the staff had either left or had just logged on to chat and idle.

So what happened after? Maloria died and now v3 seems hopeless since from what I read around the forums, the v3 staff are not dedicated enough.

Stop being so damn full of yourself. The point everyone is trying to make, that you aren't getting, is Zodiac is not broken so stop trying to fix it. You have no right to undo the previous work of others. Make your own additions to what is there before you ruin Zodiac. If you continue, then we'll be the ones saying "I told you so.", in the end, and not you.

[Gambet]

Originally Posted by Skrobo2

Stop being so damn full of yourself. The point everyone is trying to make, that you aren't getting, is Zodiac is not broken so stop trying to fix it. You have no right to undo the previous work of others. Make your own additions to what is there before you ruin Zodiac. If you continue, then we'll be the ones saying "I told you so.", in the end, and not you.

You won't be telling me anything because you don't play Zodiac, thus your opinion means nothing because it wouldn't matter if you'd choose to play new Zodiac or not since you currently don't even play the current version, thus you wouldn't matter.


I love the "no right to undo the previous work of others".


I believe it's been made clear that Yen doesn't want his systems used anymore, and we're more then happy with compiling with his requests since it will make Zodiac better in the end.

[coreys]

Yeah, just stop talking to Gambet, everyone. He obviously doesn't understand English. Or common sense.

[Gambet]

Originally Posted by coreys

Yeah, just stop talking to Gambet, everyone. He obviously doesn't understand English. Or common sense.

Yes, because I'm the one that lacks sense when I've shot down your claims multiple times already.


Nice way of saying "I'm obviously not winning this debate and thus I should organize a rampage on Gambet so that everyone flames him and this thread is closed before he continues to embarass me".

[Skrobo2]

Originally Posted by Gambet

You won't be telling me anything because you don't play Zodiac, thus your opinion means nothing because it wouldn't matter if you'd choose to play new Zodiac or not since you currently don't even play the current version, thus you wouldn't matter.


I love the "no right to undo the previous work of others".


I believe it's been made clear that Yen doesn't want his systems used anymore, and we're more then happy with compiling with his requests since it will make Zodiac better in the end.

My opinion is as good as any other, regardless of if I am a regular player or not. I'm too busy with UN to bother playing Zodiac, but I have played it in the past. The only good thing about the server are those systems you are redoing. Without them Zodiac is nothing.

And what gives you the right to touch something you didn't make? The way I see it, nothing does. No one is going to stop you from doing it, but in the end all you'll do is ruin what's there. And when content is uploaded to a server, it becomes the property of Graal Online and the server it was uploaded on. So, even if Yen says he wants it gone, it no longer belongs to him, so he can't have it removed.

[Gambet]

Originally Posted by Skrobo2

My opinion is as good as any other, regardless of if I am a regular player or not. I'm too busy with UN to bother playing Zodiac, but I have played it in the past. The only good thing about the server are those systems you are redoing. Without them Zodiac is nothing.

And what gives you the right to touch something you didn't make? The way I see it, nothing does. No one is going to stop you from doing it, but in the end all you'll do is ruin what's there. And when content is uploaded to a server, it becomes the property of Graal Online and the server it was uploaded on. So, even if Yen says he wants it gone, it no longer belongs to him, so he can't have it removed.

We arn't afraid of his threats, for that's all that they are.

Do you play Zodiac? No

Does anyone that continues to argue with me on this thread play Zodiac? No

Why? Because Zodiac doesn't offer enough, CURRENTLY, to keep them interested.


Even the staff are bored of it, which is why we decided to start on this project.


Honestly, just let us finish before you go about spewing your opinions. At least then you'd have a basis to argue on.


From what we've done so far, this new Zodiac looks quite promising. I don't want to give away any information, just sit tight and continue to enjoy Zodiac as it is now as we work to something that we believe will make things better in the end.

[Inverness]

If you want support for your 'project' we're going to need some information on it.
Public support is a good thing.

[Skrobo2]

Originally Posted by Inverness

If you want support for your 'project' we're going to need some information on it.
Public support is a good thing.

He doesn't want to make any promises, because he won't be able to keep them. Zodiac will be dead in the end with a player count like Classic's.

[Gambet]

Originally Posted by Inverness

If you want support for your 'project' we're going to need some information on it.
Public support is a good thing.

Information will be leaked once we get a bit more done.

Originally Posted by Skrobo2

He doesn't want to make any promises, because he won't be able to keep them. Zodiac will be dead in the end with a player count like Classic's.

More like I can't make any promises when we havn't even finished the blueprint ideas yet.

Great way to make assumptions.

Oh wait, weren't you the one who made the GoodBye thread for Yen?

Oh, no wonder you continue to argue with me. I should have seen it before

[Infernix]

Gambet you do realize that the argument is about replacing old Zodiac with a new Zodiac right?And you claim Zodiac is the 2nd server on the classic list so I doubt it needs a over haul.

People are asking you to add on to it with new content instead of removing the old with new. You say we don't even know what your doing. But in fact you've already given us the basis.

Removing old and making new. Might as well give the server a new name because its not going to be the same game.

[Gambet]

Originally Posted by Infernix

Gambet you do realize that the argument is about replacing old Zodiac with a new Zodiac right?And you claim Zodiac is the 2nd server on the classic list so I doubt it needs a over haul.

People are asking you to add on to it with new content instead of removing the old with new. You say we don't even know what your doing. But in fact you've already given us the basis.

Removing old and making new. Might as well give the server a new name because its not going to be the same game.

The server title is not up to me to change.


Some of the same people that helped make Zodiac, excluding Yen, are still around as staff today.

Stop speaking as if Zodiac only exists with Yen, and without him it shouldn't be called Zodiac (or at least stop making it look like you mean this much).

[Infernix]

Originally Posted by Gambet

The server title is not up to me to change.


Some of the same people that helped make Zodiac, excluding Yen, are still around as staff today.

Stop speaking as if Zodiac only exists with Yen, and without him it shouldn't be called Zodiac (or at least stop making it look like you mean this much).

Once again I was not speaking of Yen and I did not mention him at all. Ignorant once again. The Mention of its name is because you want to remove what content that made the game in the first place. Its like taking a FPS and making it into a text based game(I extreme example, I'm not suggesting your changing the genre of the server). I could care less who made the content.

[Gambet]

Originally Posted by Infernix

Once again I was not speaking of Yen and I did not mention him at all. Ignorant once again.

"Might as well give the server a new name because its not going to be the same game."



The name of the server does not make the server.


Like I said, it's not up to me to change the server title. I don't think it's 100% that we'll keep the same title, but it's likely. It's more up to calani.

[coreys]

Originally Posted by Gambet

I've shot down your claims multiple times already.

This is the one claim you've made COUNTLESS times, probably for you whole life. And you are probably the only one who ever thinks its true. Shut the **** UP and get a GOD DAMN LIFE. *****.

[Infernix]

Originally Posted by Gambet

"Might as well give the server a new name because its not going to be the same game."



The name of the server does not make the server.


Like I said, it's not up to me to change the server title. I don't think it's 100% that we'll keep the same title, but it's likely. It's more up to calani.

Changing the name and the content is making a new server. Go buy your own G-server and start your own development there then.

[Skrobo2]

Originally Posted by Gambet

More like I can't make any promises when we havn't even finished the blueprint ideas yet.

Great way to make assumptions.

Oh wait, weren't you the one who made the GoodBye thread for Yen?

Oh, no wonder you continue to argue with me. I should have seen it before

My making that thread has nothing to do with this. You're implying that I'm arguing with you, because I'm a friend of Yen's and he's "fed me lies".
I've only talked to Yen on a few occasions and it was only to ask a scripting question or two. My concern stems from seeing a server I spent a lot of time working on with Shawn and watching it get ruined by people that had no idea what the server was even about. What you want is to remake Zodiac the way you think it should be. But, how the hell is it still going to be Zodiac if you change everything? Just leaving the levels the same is not enough. What the server is, is all of it's content as a whole and completely changing one part changes the entire feel of what Zodiac is. I think the levels and graphics are ****ty, but Zodiac works how it is. I have plenty of friends that continue to have fun on Zodiac the way it is and don't complain about anything. In fact I would be playing it myself despite the poor quality (in my opinion), except I'm too busy with my job as admin on UN. Go ahead and keep going in the direction you're going, Zodiac's already dead. And it isn't because Yen is gone or any of the other crap you keep telling yourself. Zodiac is dead, because by the time you finish changing what you want to change, it won't be the same.

Originally Posted by Infernix

Changing the name and the content and making a new server. Go buy your own G-server and start your own development there then.

EXACTLY!

[Googi]

Look, the issue here is not how the rest of Zodiac's scripters stack up against Yen, not really. They probably could overhaul the entire system if they wanted to (though that wouldn't mean that the new system would be better.) The real issue is that one of two things is happening.

1. Most of the changes will be scriptural and fairly irrelevant. There may be new features but they could have been implemented without making huge scriptural changes to the server. The server will not change much but the code behind it will. Not because this will make the server drastically more efficient or otherwise better, but because they want to "cleanse" the server of Yen's code for almost no reason besides the fact that it is Yen's.

or

2. The system actually will be overhauled and gameplay drastically changed, in which case the question is "why?" Zodiac is one of the most successful servers and overhauling the system is unlikely to increase the playercount, especially since it will require a reset (if it doesn't, then it isn't a real overhaul). The reason they will have done it will be either to "cleanse" the server of Yen's code in a justifiable way, or the "new system" will be purely an artistic pursuit, made because the staff like it more, and don't care whether or not the players like it more (or some combination of the two).

[Inverness]

Originally Posted by Googi

<text>

That has to be the best explanation ever

Really if Zodiac is successful right now you should ask the players what they want and try to make the changes without destroying the server.

[WanDaMan]

Please, think before you do this. Do not make this a shadow of Babylon Calani.

Gambet, Skrobo doesn't need to play to give advice. No one does - you do not play Zodiac and yet you're drastically changing the game play of Zodiac.

Please modify the current Zodiac, just don't ruin it with a 3 year development plan!!

[Chandler]

Originally Posted by Gambet

Your posts...in general

Who're you trying to prove? You sound as though you're trying to impress someone. Who is this person that you're trying to impress?

[Tyhm]

Originally Posted by Inverness

That has to be the best explanation ever

Really if Zodiac is successful right now you should ask the players what they want and try to make the changes without destroying the server.

Hear hear.

Learn from the sad fate of Classic - there's a huge difference between Overhauling and Designing. Once you start Overhauling servers, they never recover...but if you develop, the patchwork of fixes to the system eventually becomes a new system of its own. And really, they're rarely as inefficient as they seem: Stefan coded default movement, Yen scripted basic movement, you override that, someone else makes a special case that overrules yours - and only the top layer is executed, the rest may as well be comments for all the engine cares. Don't worry, just make content.

If I had Classic to do over again, I never would have moved beyond LAT. Well, that's a lie, I still would have taken the reigns to keep other people from making their Conceptual Overhauls, but I can't say I would have bothered with the Coastline Overhaul, the Magic Quest Overhauls, the Quest System...I probably still would have done the Tears of Hera in SOME form (ideally moving and reducing the heart-quests, which couldn't be done since it was chest-based back then), but we all saw how badly that was recieved - big changes ruin servers, it's just how it works.

[Crono]

Trying to modify servers rarely works.

Xone? Died after they wanted to completely upgrade it.

Sanstrata? Died after they wanted ot completely upgrade it.

Delteria? Is dead ever since they stared Delteria Dev.

Valikorlia? Died ever since they decided to "flood" it.

Mithica? Died after they tried to completely upgrade it.

Enigma? Although formally died after full p2p was in affect, it truly died after they tried to completely upgrade it.

[Infernix]

Originally Posted by Gerami

Trying to modify servers rarely works.

Xone? Died after they wanted to completely upgrade it.

Sanstrata? Died after they wanted ot completely upgrade it.

Delteria? Is dead ever since they stared Delteria Dev.

Valikorlia? Died ever since they decided to "flood" it.

Mithica? Died after they tried to completely upgrade it.

Enigma? Although formally died after full p2p was in affect, it truly died after they tried to completely upgrade it.

This is what I was telling when I said History is going to constantly repeat its self if someone continually repeats the same actions.

[Skrobo2]

They won't listen and they'll kill the server. Oh well, we got V$:C' to look forward to.

[PrinceDark]

Originally Posted by Gerami

Trying to modify servers rarely works.

Xone? Died after they wanted to completely upgrade it.

Sanstrata? Died after they wanted ot completely upgrade it.

Delteria? Is dead ever since they stared Delteria Dev.

Valikorlia? Died ever since they decided to "flood" it.

Mithica? Died after they tried to completely upgrade it.

Enigma? Although formally died after full p2p was in affect, it truly died after they tried to completely upgrade it.

Good list. Could add on all those gold servers back in the days that actually had a surplus of talented staff, but kept on with redo's. Frolic and Providence. Bravo's remake bombed entirely. N-Pulse is just barely surviving with all their remakes. Can't forget about Rudora or Cynical.

[Crono]

Originally Posted by PrinceDark

Good list. Could add on all those gold servers back in the days that actually had a surplus of talented staff, but kept on with redo's. Frolic and Providence. Bravo's remake bombed entirely. N-Pulse is just barely surviving with all their remakes. Can't forget about Rudora or Cynical.

Rudora was never big anyway, the rest were always so-so.

[PrinceDark]

And thats why they died fast.

[Tyhm]

Originally Posted by PrinceDark

Good list. Could add on all those gold servers back in the days that actually had a surplus of talented staff, but kept on with redo's. Frolic and Providence. Bravo's remake bombed entirely. N-Pulse is just barely surviving with all their remakes. Can't forget about Rudora or Cynical.

Oh! Let's not forget NW!
That's gotta be the paragon example - shrouded in mystery as the development was (I wasn't even allowed to know about it...I think partially they feared I'd find out what it'd do to Classic when they Replaced me) - but every few months, I'd hear another leak that Antago came back and kicked Lycia off the team and deleted all her stuff, no Laura came back and deleted Antago's stuff, no Kyle0654 came back and deleted all Laura's stuff, no...

And despite the myriad claims of "This is NW", we never saw the real NW. Bomy Moon's probably the closest we'll ever see to it.

Too bad too. It was going to be revolutionary, nothing Graal's ever seen before.