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  #81  
Old 12-06-2006, 08:23 PM
Loriel Loriel is offline
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Originally Posted by excaliber7388 View Post
I can't code well.
It is not like there is not a lot of material on the web.

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Although it's too bad the company doesn't upgrade it's own software often enough. Imagine if you had to upgrade you version of Win 98 on your own
Last I checked Win98 does not run on PPC either.
Last edited by Loriel; 12-06-2006 at 08:41 PM..
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  #82  
Old 12-06-2006, 08:38 PM
Loriel Loriel is offline
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Originally Posted by CidNight1142 View Post
My thought, at the time that I made that post (nearly 3 months ago, by the way) was that Maniaman was making this officially. I have no desire for 'attention'
[...]
I have no soap box, I have no care for yours or anyone elses attention, I simply wish I got what I paid for.[...]even if I really believe Stefan should be the one to do it.
Yeah, okay, I was too harsh there. Sorry. Also I meant attention as in Stefan-spending-time-to-support-you-mac-guys-instead-of-writing-Graal3d or something, not the "hey look at me" kind.

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it would be nice if Stefan provided the promised services of this game to his paying customers. [...]he could provide the services or offer a reduced price.
I am kind of with the "you too can download the Windows client so you get the same service" crowd, there.

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The very least he could do is make it known to buyers of the game that the mac version has no development tools.
Agreed.

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If I had the skills, I'd make the mac editor myself
See my above posts with the lots of illegal links before a moderator sees them. You do not get skills for free, you need to earn them by forsakening your social life, spending nights in front of API references and tutorials written by people from Japan for a three-year old version of the toolkit and chastising yourself using command line tools instead of appropriate GUI application.



Quote:
And honestly, everyone sees through your immature use of the term 'retarded'. Myself and every other mac user playing this game know its a perfectly reasonable platform.
I am refering to how you guys decide to not support all the fine pre-existing gui toolkits and frameworks and whatever and just roll your own and expect everybody else to port applications over, even though your platform is closed and proprietary and I could not afford a Mac to develop on if I wanted to. I mean, we made this fun cross-platform text editor and the Mac people just whined about it not using their native toolkit.

It is one thing if you feel superior because you have a bunch of great applications because apparently Apple is actually capable of designing useful software, but being all equal-rights is a bit exaggerating.

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Personal attacks do not make your statement any more meaningful.
Are you personally insulted if I make fun of your computer?
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  #83  
Old 12-06-2006, 08:47 PM
CidNight1142 CidNight1142 is offline
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Nah, I'm not really a cult of apple type. I like my computer, but I have no disillusions that its some amazing machine with super powers. I'd say I like macs better than PCs, but that might just be because it's what I'm used to now. I guess I just don't have the desire to discard my social and academic life in order to create a mac development set, however I will shake the hands of the man (or woman) that does.

I also tend to agree that the mac development tools should not be the first priority of Stefan. However, I also don't think they should be dead last. Until then, it would be nice if they put it on the download page that the mac version has no port. They could say they're working on it, maybe?
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  #84  
Old 12-06-2006, 09:02 PM
Loriel Loriel is offline
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Originally Posted by CidNight1142 View Post
I also tend to agree that the mac development tools should not be the first priority of Stefan. However, I also don't think they should be dead last. Until then, it would be nice if they put it on the download page that the mac version has no port. They could say they're working on it, maybe?
But everybody knows that the website is hilariously useless and out of date.
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  #85  
Old 12-06-2006, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Loriel View Post
But everybody knows that the website is hilariously useless and out of date.
Hilarious was a good word for it. Sometimes, when I'm in a bad mood, I go and read about the newest news on GK....from 2003!
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  #86  
Old 12-06-2006, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Gerami View Post
The screenshots look promising.

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Originally Posted by Devil View Post
Wow guy, do all your posts have to be like that?


As a coder, I look at systems for what they are, not for what they look like. Take Maloria for example (v2 at least, since I know little about v3 except that it will have eye candy). Maloria has some great graphic artists on the team, and v2 contained a lot of eye candy, but when it came down to the core systems, Maloria had some systems made by people that quit ages ago, thus, not being up-to-date with certain commands and so forth. Enable GS2 on v2, and most systems will cease to function correctly/entirely.


You can't judge a book by its cover, no matter how beautiful it may seem.


What matters is how it works, not so much how it looks, though, nice graphics are always a plus, but should never be priority over the script itself.
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  #87  
Old 12-06-2006, 10:06 PM
Loriel Loriel is offline
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As a coder, I look at systems for what they are
As a coder, you are a pessimistic meanie.
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  #88  
Old 12-06-2006, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Loriel View Post
As a coder, you are a pessimistic meanie.


So when you'd, for example, design a security system, you wouldn't be pessimistic by looking at every possible way that your system could fail/be bypassed in order to improve it?


Sometimes being pessimistic isn't a bad thing.
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  #89  
Old 12-06-2006, 10:12 PM
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I don't see how you can be pessimistic about this level editor. The current one is quite basic, and this one pretty much has it's basics plus more. =o
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  #90  
Old 12-06-2006, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Gerami View Post
I don't see how you can be pessimistic about this level editor. The current one is quite basic, and this one pretty much has it's basics plus more. =o


Because I havn't tried it yet?


It could be so complex to the point where it's uncomfortable to use and so forth. Or it could be so simple that it's not really worth using it.


Nothing wrong with a beta testing version.
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  #91  
Old 12-06-2006, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Gambet View Post
Because I havn't tried it yet?


It could be so complex to the point where it's uncomfortable to use and so forth. Or it could be so simple that it's not really worth using it.


Nothing wrong with a beta testing version.
o_o gambet it's a graal level editor

how could it possibly be complex
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  #92  
Old 12-06-2006, 10:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerami View Post
o_o gambet it's a graal level editor

how could it possibly be complex
Doesn't the level editor basically just read and write information to and from a text file?
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  #93  
Old 12-06-2006, 10:36 PM
Gambet Gambet is offline
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Originally Posted by Gerami View Post
o_o gambet it's a graal level editor

how could it possibly be complex


You can make a rubberband complex :/
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  #94  
Old 12-06-2006, 11:11 PM
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Doesn't the level editor basically just read and write information to and from a text file?
I think so but I'm no programmer so I'm not sure.

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You can make a rubberband complex :/
ur complx :[[
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  #95  
Old 12-06-2006, 11:12 PM
Loriel Loriel is offline
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Originally Posted by Gambet View Post
So when you'd, for example, design a security system, you wouldn't be pessimistic by looking at every possible way that your system could fail/be bypassed in order to improve it?
I just would not go and point at other people's security systems and announce that they probably suck.
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  #96  
Old 12-06-2006, 11:12 PM
Loriel Loriel is offline
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Doesn't the level editor basically just read and write information to and from a text file?
That is also what the gserver does.
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  #97  
Old 12-06-2006, 11:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Loriel View Post
I just would not go and point at other people's security systems and announce that they probably suck.


I'm not saying that it sucks, I havn't even tried it out yet.


And if you could find flaws in someone elses security system, why wouldn't you tell them?
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  #98  
Old 12-06-2006, 11:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Loriel View Post
Sure, go ahead and yell at Stefan if you think you deserve extra attention, but if you are going to yell at Maniaman for not supporting your retarded platform, you must have a really weird sense of entitlement.
Really, we pay the same for service, we should get the same out of it. I'm not upgrading (which is a good amount of money, since I also own a server) until something is done. No way I'm paying that much just to sit on it.
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Clicking those links instantly downloaded it to my brain!
Like I read my 800 some page C++ book in an instant!


Quote:
Last I checked Win98 does not run on PPC either.
NOBODY wants Win 98
My point is; the company actually upgraded their services; they didn't make you do it.
You'd be mad if they said it'd have email, and you had to code it yourself...and learn the code for it first.
Even PC users are getting ripped off with outdated editors.
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  #99  
Old 12-07-2006, 12:30 AM
Loriel Loriel is offline
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Originally Posted by excaliber7388 View Post
Really, we pay the same for service, we should get the same out of it. I'm not upgrading (which is a good amount of money, since I also own a server) until something is done. No way I'm paying that much just to sit on it.
Okay. I am selling my actual computer and want to play Graal on my programmable calculator. I demand dev tools right this minute since I pay the same amount for the service!

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Clicking those links instantly downloaded it to my brain!
Like I read my 800 some page C++ book in an instant!
COMPETENCE REQUIRES EFFORT

You should try reading sometimes, it is fun.

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My point is; the company actually upgraded their services; they didn't make you do it.
You'd be mad if they said it'd have email, and you had to code it yourself...and learn the code for it first.
No one is making you do anything either, but you still cannot just randomly demand other people to do it.

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Even PC users are getting ripped off with outdated editors.
Considering Stefan himself still uses it, it cannot be too bad, eh?
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  #100  
Old 12-07-2006, 12:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerami View Post
o_o gambet it's a graal level editor

how could it possibly be complex
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Originally Posted by smirt362 View Post
Doesn't the level editor basically just read and write information to and from a text file?
It can actually get very complex. The graphics subsystem Maniaman is using (GDI+) doesn't provide everything you'd need to create a good editor. There aren't any built-in tools for making "layered" graphics, for instance, and a level editor involves many layers; tiles, images, selection rectangles are 3 examples.

NTFS is also very slow when accessing files due to security permissions, and that presents a serious problem when you are looking at thousands of files like you find in your Graal folder; Stefan had to make the filename cache to fix that problem.

GDI+ also isn't very friendly when you are editing huge images. A Graal level is 1024x1024 pixels, which caused serious problems Maniaman had to fix.

Maniaman also wants to interpret changeimgcolors/zoom/etc, which means he has to write some kind of script interpreter.

Those are just some small examples, but it all adds up. A level editor is more complex than you'd think. That said, I've played with some early builds of his level editor and works pretty decently aside from some rough edges (strange crash cases, code efficiency, etc).
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  #101  
Old 12-07-2006, 12:39 AM
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Originally Posted by cheetoz :D
dododododo
i was refering to useability
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  #102  
Old 12-07-2006, 12:45 AM
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Originally Posted by CheeToS2 View Post
That said, I've played with some early builds of his level editor and works pretty decently aside from some rough edges (strange crash cases, code efficiency, etc).
The code could make people cry

Planning on fixing a lot of the exceptions and stuff before I start handing out the alpha version. That is easier said then done though.
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  #103  
Old 12-07-2006, 12:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Loriel View Post
Okay. I am selling my actual computer and want to play Graal on my programmable calculator. I demand dev tools right this minute since I pay the same amount for the service!
Were you told there was a version for your calculator?
Are there a lot of people this would benefit?
Nope
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COMPETENCE REQUIRES EFFORT

You should try reading sometimes, it is fun.
I'll be getting a book on Carbon gui development. I also have all the pages from Mac bookmarked. I've read them over a bit. I don't liek reading online much. The book will be nice.
Quote:
No one is making you do anything either, but you still cannot just randomly demand other people to do it.
Demand them to provide a service they claim to have?
They mislead the customer, there's demand for it, and a simple upgrade couldn't hurt. Even for the PC version.
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Considering Stefan himself still uses it, it cannot be too bad, eh?
How can you be so sure?
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  #104  
Old 12-07-2006, 12:55 AM
Loriel Loriel is offline
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cheetos i was refering to useability


Please.
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  #105  
Old 12-07-2006, 01:44 AM
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Please.
Done.
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  #106  
Old 12-07-2006, 02:57 AM
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This started just asking for an update to the level editor.
Hey, maybe if they do, we can get the old one on Macs!
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  #107  
Old 12-07-2006, 04:30 AM
CidNight1142 CidNight1142 is offline
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Originally Posted by Loriel View Post
but you still cannot just randomly demand other people to do it.
Honestly, do you really think it is unreasonable that the mac users of graalonline request Stefan extends development tools to us? We're not demanding anything. We're expecting this company to provide promised services to their paying customers.

It's in their best financial interest, honestly. I have no desire to reupgrade to gold unless I have the ability to develop, that's $40 a year. Cali isn't going to upgrade to gold, VIP or his server until he can develop. That's around $160 right there. So that's $200 poorer, just from two customers.

And I don't mean that I'm having some sort of disgruntled customer strike thing either, there really is simply no point whatsoever to upgrade if I can't develop. I've lost interest in GK and I never had interest in Zone. I think Cali is in the same boat. I know that he complains about alot, but I think he has a fair point on this one.
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  #108  
Old 12-07-2006, 04:32 AM
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what you guys dont understand is that online editing is the way of the future!

even though i disagree with what i just said
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  #109  
Old 12-07-2006, 04:42 AM
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  #110  
Old 12-07-2006, 04:46 AM
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what you guys dont understand is that online editing is the way of the future!

even though i disagree with what i just said
Haha I'm not a fan of online editing. But that's due to my personal reasons.
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  #111  
Old 12-07-2006, 04:47 AM
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You win a free kitten pic!


Now stop being such a damned prick.
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  #112  
Old 12-07-2006, 11:16 AM
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Un-amusing, Cid.

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  #113  
Old 12-07-2006, 08:49 PM
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You win a free kitten pic!


Now stop being such a damned prick.
I see a Mac power adapter
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  #114  
Old 12-07-2006, 09:57 PM
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You win a free kitten pic!


Now stop being such a damned prick.
Waaa, waaa, Macs are better but is still not sufficient in as much as a Windows so I'm going to complain about my lack of development. waaaa
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  #115  
Old 12-07-2006, 10:29 PM
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Waaa, waaa, Macs are better but is still not sufficient in as much as a Windows so I'm going to complain about my lack of development. waaaa
...
You really are retarded...
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  #116  
Old 12-07-2006, 10:33 PM
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...
You really are retarded...
the irony...is killing me...
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  #117  
Old 12-07-2006, 11:30 PM
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...
You really are retarded...
waaaaa, Macs are better, but give us stuff so we can at least be equal to Windows. waaaaaa
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  #118  
Old 12-07-2006, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Bl0nkt View Post
Waaa, waaa, Macs are better but is still not sufficient in as much as a Windows so I'm going to complain about my lack of development. waaaa
I'm sorry....what?

If I've interpreted that into English correctly, you are claiming that computers are not defined by the computer itself, but by the software manufacturers biases? Ok, its a fair argument. However, times are changing, and I feel very soon your argument will become null. Graal is one of the few final bastions of mac software development segregation.

I'm honestly biased because I have no desire for a gaming rig. I need a work station. I find macs are better workstations. So the fact that 'gaming software' is not always created equally for mac doesn't bother me in the least.

But maybe someday (after the learning English thing), you can be a big boy and need a workstation as well!
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  #119  
Old 12-07-2006, 11:57 PM
Demisis_P2P Demisis_P2P is offline
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Originally Posted by CidNight1142 View Post
Graal is one of the few final bastions of mac software development segregation.
What? No it's not.
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  #120  
Old 12-08-2006, 12:03 AM
CidNight1142 CidNight1142 is offline
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Originally Posted by Demisis_P2P View Post
What? No it's not.
I don't know, maybe it just is to me.

Everything I need has a mac version except graal dev tools. But then again, as I said earlier, I'm not a big computer gamer.
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